Brewers Trade Estrada

by Michael M on Nov 21, 2007 3:56 PM CST

Link Here: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets1121,0,2690590.story

I know I know, I can't do the fancy links and I know it's somewhere on this site, oh well.
Anyways, he was traded to the Mets for Guillermo Mota.
Any thoughts anyone? I think this obviously means we'll be signing Jason Kendall. And this hopefully makes the mets worse with their clubhouse cancer.

[UPDATE: It looks like we actually signed Kendall to one-year deal. Details pending, check this space, etc. --- roguejim]

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my personal favorite

is the first line, "The Mets found a solution to their catching problem today" but i mean come how how estrada is classified as a solution to a catching problem....

by DoubleJ235 on Nov 20, 2007 5:59 PM CST 0 recs

my favorite...

was how it said he calls a good game. so does vin scully but can he catch?

"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Michael M on Nov 20, 2007 6:01 PM CST up 0 recs

My favorite line:

"Throughout all of his stops -- from Philadelphia to Atlanta, to Arizona, to Milwukaee -- he has earned praise for his handling of doughnuts."

Hey, way to butcher the spelling of Milwaukee!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 20, 2007 6:04 PM CST 0 recs

you beat me!

by oaklandbrewerfan on Nov 20, 2007 6:53 PM CST up 0 recs

Hmm

Well, Mota's obviously added to the mix of arms toward the end of the bullpen. By FIP, he was about Greg Aquino-level last season but hopefully he can get back to how he used to pitch (which was better than that). If nothing else, the team is screwed if Kendall (sigh) backs out of the deal at the last minute.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Nov 20, 2007 6:05 PM CST 0 recs

My favorite:

"Throughout all of his stops -- from Philadelphia to Atlanta, to Arizona, to Milwukaee -- he has earned praise for his handling of pitchers." HA!

by oaklandbrewerfan on Nov 20, 2007 6:05 PM CST 0 recs

Hi Guys

Met fan here. It seems like we're happy about this trade as you guys are. Mota was terrible this year for us and we're thrilled to see him gone from these parts. He's probably the single biggest reason we didn't make the playoffs. Don't let him near a mound for you guys.

by DoctorK16 on Nov 20, 2007 6:07 PM CST 0 recs

Wait till you see Estrada run

its like he has a piano on his back

"Turning Fielders choices into Double Plays"
Base running the Johnny Estrada Way lol

My God Yost is coming back the 2008 season is already a disaster and they have not thrown a pitch yet. ;)

by WSB Chris on Nov 20, 2007 6:30 PM CST up 0 recs

he can't be any slower

than Ramon Castro the guy he splitting time with. Paul Lo Duca also had a penchant for killing rallies with double plays.

by DoctorK16 on Nov 20, 2007 7:32 PM CST up 0 recs

yes he can.

that guy sucks.

by Jamie in LA on Nov 20, 2007 8:45 PM CST up 0 recs

Ramon Castro

is timed basically by sundial. I'm pretty sure he's the slow player in the league. Don't worry wait till you see Mota groove a 2-0 fastball to Aramis Ramirez or Albert Pujols about 10 times this year. The guy has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head.

by DoctorK16 on Nov 20, 2007 10:50 PM CST up 0 recs

Estrada

is also timed by a sundial and sometimes decides he's too tired to even run at all, especially in crucial double play situations at the end of the season.

At least when Estrada starts against the Phillies you guys will be involved in a new MLB record for stolen bases allowed in a single game though. The guy has a ten cent arm and a million dollar contract.

by stevie ray Braun on Nov 21, 2007 12:48 AM CST up 0 recs

we already I believe

own that record thanks to Mike Piazza catching for us against the Juan Pierre/Luis Castillo running Marlins. Phillies other than Rollins and Victorino don't run all that much. Maybe Estrada is as bad as you guy say, but trust me Mota is no improvement. Mota was involved in about 10 of the lowest momements this season, including giving up a 2 run double to your own Bill Hall to ruin Tom Glavine first chance at 300 wins.

by DoctorK16 on Nov 21, 2007 7:03 AM CST up 0 recs

Heh

You said "Mike Piazza catching..."

Heh heh heh. Anyway, this seems like an NBA-esque trade of two mediocre players being paid too much -- best case scenario is that both players just needed a change of scenery and do fine in each city and each fanbase comes off feeling like it was a steal.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Nov 21, 2007 7:28 AM CST up 0 recs

best of luck to you...

with this guy. i think the nyc media will eat him alive.

hopefully both johnny and mota will have great seasons :)

by Jamie in LA on Nov 21, 2007 10:54 AM CST up 0 recs

I hope so too on them having good years

The media lost one of their favorite whipping boys in Lo Duca. You figure increased scrutiny on Lastings Milledge another media whipping and Jose Reyes who is quickly becoming one should keep Estrada out of the papers.

by DoctorK16 on Nov 21, 2007 12:36 PM CST up 0 recs

Who's eating who?

It already looks like Estrada has eaten a couple of cities...

TED IS TO NED WHAT CHENEY IS TO BUSH.

by CATALYST on Nov 21, 2007 12:49 PM CST up 0 recs

Kendall =

ugh.

"Shabbat shalom, motherfuckers" - Ryan Braun

by The Prospector on Nov 20, 2007 6:23 PM CST 0 recs

Yeah

He hits like my mom, but maybe he will benefit by playing in a more hitting friendly park. He is just the gamer Yost is looking for. He gets dirty, has a veteran presence.

by nmc on Nov 20, 2007 6:28 PM CST up 0 recs

you're right...

wrigley isn't very hitter friendly

by SunglassesAtNight on Nov 20, 2007 8:20 PM CST up 0 recs

Kendall

I think he hit pretty well after getting to Wrigley, though. If only there was a way to check that...

by newguy on Nov 21, 2007 7:21 AM CST up 0 recs

I'm saying

His career (aside from Wrigley) has been spent in Pittsburgh and Oakland, neither good hitting parks. But this is much a "frosted turd" analogy I'm getting at.

by nmc on Nov 21, 2007 8:34 AM CST up 0 recs

Good, I guess

It's hard to find a reliever like Mota, he still throws fast, right? Can at least be a set up guy, more experience in the pen, and relievers have a high ERA variance from year to year. Just glancing over his game log, looks like he had a couple of rough patches and gave up runs about every fourth game.

Also considering how fungible shitty catchers are, I think this will work out for the Brewers. Certainly Melvin can find a catcher that plays better defense and has an OBP of greater than .296 or an OPS greater than .699.

by nmc on Nov 20, 2007 6:25 PM CST 0 recs

So

for Double D we get Mota......

by Braunstalker on Nov 20, 2007 6:48 PM CST 0 recs

not quite.

we get mota, vargas, and aquino for Double B (get it? he walks way too many guys. walk = base-on-balls.... eh? i tried...)

by MeanGuyJoey on Nov 20, 2007 8:09 PM CST up 0 recs

I suppose

adding Kendall and Mota and losing Estrada isn't terrible, but I certainly hope Melvin has more up his sleeve. A relief machine of Mota/Turnbow sounds rather comical.

by stevie ray Braun on Nov 20, 2007 6:59 PM CST 0 recs

Kendall and Mota, hooray!

I'll be shocked if Mota doesn't melt down and Kendall posts an OPS over .600. I think Melvin has gone insane.

by kingcharlesxii on Nov 20, 2007 7:03 PM CST 0 recs

What about

Yorvit Torrealba? Weren't the Mets going to sign him, now they trade for Estrada? I haven't really been following what's been going on very closely, but wouldn't Torrealba be a better choice than Kendall?

by KegelExercise on Nov 20, 2007 7:30 PM CST 0 recs

Yes

but it appears that the Brewers aren't after him. (Bottom of article)

"Shabbat shalom, motherfuckers" - Ryan Braun

by The Prospector on Nov 20, 2007 7:44 PM CST up 0 recs

Torrealba

is probably even worse than Kendall, with a career OBP over 60 points lower.

by stevie ray Braun on Nov 20, 2007 8:00 PM CST up 0 recs

ugh

I hadn't realized Mota was back from his steriod suspension.

by sheeter on Nov 20, 2007 8:03 PM CST 0 recs

This is quite a situation

How can I justify cheering for Mota? I don't think I can. If I boo Barry Bonds, I should boo Mota too, no matter what uniform he's wearing.

At least Kendall's in the clear on the steroid thing, considering his power (or lack thereof).

C. Magruder scored, R. Weeks to second on balk

by alkaseitzer on Nov 20, 2007 8:10 PM CST 0 recs

don't forget

turnbow was one of the first players to ever get busted on steroids. but i guess most of us don't really cheer for him, either.

MOTA!! KENDALL!!! Your 2008 Milwaukee Brewers!

by SunglassesAtNight on Nov 20, 2007 8:19 PM CST up 0 recs

Mota/Kendall

My expectations were probably unrealistic, but these aren't exactly the kind of headlines I imagined this offseason. If Melvin's really chasing Cordero hard, then he's a bit handcuffed financially until CoCo makes a decision. If Cordero goes elsewhere, I would think you'd see some moves fairly quickly after that.

BTW, did you catch Estrada's comment about the Mets being "all about winning"? And how he didn't want to say too much "yet"? You can bet he won't be so shy the first time the Mets and Brewers go at it next year, if he even waits that long. Can't wait to see how long the New York crowd takes to turn on him when they see him toddling down the first baseline on an inning ending double play. If he even bothers to run at all.

Too bad he doesn't like to run his ass the way he does his mouth.

Also, that "I enjoyed working with the young guys" comment he made suggests to me that Maddux/Yost/Melvin think he might have been partially responsible for Capuano's struggle to find his legs even late in the year. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I can't think of any "older" pitchers that fell far below expectations.

Dammit. I don't want Kendall to be our starting catcher.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 20, 2007 8:48 PM CST up 0 recs

Here's why:

Mota took his punishment and apologized. Maybe he waited to apologize until after he got busted, but at least he apologized. People cheat in this game. They always have. I'm not likening steroid use to spitballing, like some jackasses who defend Bonds have tried to. But by and large if people do something wrong (short of hurting someone) and they get nailed for it and straighten themselves out, it's time to move on.

Unlike Mota, Bonds lied his ass off about his steroid use. Under oath. (Allegedly.) He's STILL trying to get away with it despite the evidence listed in his indictment (which includes positive test results for illegal substances conducted by the people helping him dope and get away with it.) Bonds is still hiding like a coward from his own sins, he's still lying to himself and to all of us, and he's let a friend of his rot in prison for a year when all he had to do to get him out was open his mouth and say "Go ahead and talk. I'll take the consequences for it." Not even Scooter Libby did that. I didn't boo Bonds because he cheated. I booed Bonds because being a hall of famer wasn't enough for him. I booed Bonds because he's a lying, perjurous, selfish coward with no respect for himself, the game he played, or the friends who showed him more loyalty that he ever deserved. I booed Bonds because he expected me to be a mindless sheep willing to ignore my own common sense and accept him as the greatest slugger, the greatest hitter, and maybe the greatest player of all time when I knew better.

As far as I can tell, Mota isn't any of those things. If he sucks, I might boo him on occasion. If he cheats again, I'll boo him then too. But I won't boo a guy who owned up to his misdeeds, took his punishment and is trying to save what's left of his career in an honest fashion.

Just my opinion...

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 20, 2007 8:39 PM CST up 0 recs

yup

nice.

by Jamie in LA on Nov 20, 2007 8:47 PM CST up 0 recs

It could be worse

Estrada to Kendall is essentially a lateral move and now we've got another option in the bullpen. Is Mota worse than Chris Spurling? If Kendall is paid about what Estrada was, we just added an experienced albeit overpriced reliever while not downgrading at catcher. It'd be nice to have upgraded the catcher position, but if it turns out that Kendall's reputation for getting along with pitchers is well-deserved, that can't hurt.

Given that people were willing to take low-upside minor leaguers for Estrada, I figure it's good we got a guy who has a place on a major league roster while not really losing anything behind the plate. I don't like Kendall, but I can't say Estrada was much better and as long as Kendall isn't signed for too much, life goes on.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Nov 20, 2007 8:39 PM CST 0 recs

i think

captain ned must have HATED estrada.

also, johnny could be more hurt than we know.

kendall is a lateral move; well put.

by Jamie in LA on Nov 20, 2007 8:48 PM CST up 0 recs

Maybe Ned is just sore at him

because he didn't like getting his butt kicked by a fat guy who can't run on TV.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 20, 2007 8:58 PM CST up 0 recs

Life goes on indeed.

Part of what bothers me about it is that this exchange of players is probably going to end up costing us more money to maintain the same level of production we had in 2007. Year to year inflation aside, we can't afford to do that when we're chasing a team with a virtually unlimited payroll. If Kendall's signing doesn't jack up the payroll and Mota turns out to be a viable 7th inning guy 1-3 nights per week, then I'm fine with it. Not happy with it, but fine enough with it to opt for "wait and see." Maybe Jim's post still has me rattled (bastard :)), but I'm worried Kendall's going to cost more than we'd hoped.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 20, 2007 8:56 PM CST up 0 recs

Speaking of (s)Crappy player news...

podzilla is available.

Lets hope aquiring Scotty P is NOT part of the plan.

by sheeter on Nov 20, 2007 9:25 PM CST 0 recs

do you guys smell that?

i'm picking up a pretty strong scent where i'm at and it smells like a comeback year for jason kendall.

YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.

by Griswald on Nov 20, 2007 9:26 PM CST 0 recs

No

I just smell crap

by kjbsam on Nov 21, 2007 1:35 AM CST up 0 recs

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No Estrada?

A catcher that will actually work hard?

A relief pitcher that just needed a change of scenery?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

TED IS TO NED WHAT CHENEY IS TO BUSH.

by CATALYST on Nov 20, 2007 9:37 PM CST 0 recs

This one is a "Bad Melvin" move

I don't get why he took Mota from the Mets. I understand that he didn't want Estrada around any more, but taking on the Mets worst reliever doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in this offseason's bullpen rebuilding. Even if the Mets sent along his entire $3.2 million salary for next year....why? We already have Greg Aquino and Seth McClung to throw hard and miss.

I'm a little bit ill anticipating how expensive Kendall is going to be. Ugh.

by Marty McSuperFly on Nov 21, 2007 6:05 AM CST 0 recs

I disagree

I think Mota will have a nice, bounceback year. He wasn't the Mets worst reliever last year either, that distinction went to Aaron Sele. Sele may have had a slightly better ERA (5.37 to 5.76), but his WHIP was horrid (1.84) in similar innings to Mota (1.37).

Mota is better than Spurling, Aquino, McClung and Wise, so he'll help. Being rid of Estrada will also help, as he did NOTHING positive.

by cappad0nna on Nov 21, 2007 3:25 PM CST up 0 recs

The original story

has been appropriately updated.

The Kendall signing may not be a done deal. I know the Rockies have expressed interest in him and Michael Barrett, and he had originally talked about re-signing with the Cubs.

If we don't get Kendall, who will catch for us? There's report that Bengie Molina is available, but I'm concerned that he's just an Estrada-in-waiting (low OBP, aging, some power, etc.). Interestingly, there are 4 Molinas in baseball, and all of them are catchers.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 21, 2007 9:46 AM CST 0 recs

Those crazy Cubs

It'd be pretty funny if they signed him to be the starter and hid Geovany Soto in Iowa or on the bench for another year. I'm resigned to having Kendall on our team, but if you had an option like Soto and still wanted Kendall to start over him you might be crazy.

If Kendall doesn't end up on the team, which would make trading Estrada right now look dumber, maybe the team would explore a guy like Gerald Laird since Texas has been mentioned as a trade partner before.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Nov 21, 2007 10:34 AM CST up 0 recs

Poll

I don't want to cast any aspersions on the integrity of poll voters, but at 100 votes, it was 63% Estrada, and now, post-trade it's down to 55%. It may be time to stop voting, people.

by Marty McSuperFly on Nov 21, 2007 10:44 AM CST 0 recs

vinny rottino

should have been on the poll... i would have voted for him.

by Jamie in LA on Nov 21, 2007 10:56 AM CST up 0 recs

REMIND ME AGAIN

Whats wrong with Rivera being our everyday starter?

Really. I don't get why not.

Jay? You got stats or what?

TED IS TO NED WHAT CHENEY IS TO BUSH.

by CATALYST on Nov 21, 2007 11:45 AM CST 0 recs

Rivera

He's a career .239/.285/.386 hitter in the majors. That's a line similar to Brad Ausmus or Toby Hall. Before you say he hasn't gotten a chance at the major league level, yes, that's true, he's had one season's worth of at bats (352). Unfortunately, he's a .264/.313/.477 hitter in the minor leagues and, since 2002, he's been a .254/.296/.450 hitter in AAA. Basically, he's hit like Pedro Feliz down in the PCL. I can't see how he'd maintain those numbers in the majors if he can't get on base.

He's on the wrong side of thirty and is a middling hitter at AAA, not to mention he's coming off a hideous season offensively. He also managed to ground into 32 double plays in 776 at bats the last three years which means he's either had a huge number of at bats in DP situations or he's Estrada-esque in getting GIDPs.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Nov 21, 2007 12:25 PM CST up 0 recs

Thanks!

I knew you had the info!

TED IS TO NED WHAT CHENEY IS TO BUSH.

by CATALYST on Nov 21, 2007 12:48 PM CST up 0 recs

We signed Kendall

Don't have the numbers yet, but it's a one year deal with vesting option for '09.

I like the fact that we didn't give him a guaranteed multi-year deal.

by cappad0nna on Nov 21, 2007 3:28 PM CST 0 recs

Too great!!!!

You guys are f*in' hilarious! As posted in a more recent post, I've been away. In catching up and reading this one, I almost fell out of my seat a couple times. Reminiscing about Estrada's baserunning, albeit painful, is quite comical now. It'll be interesting to see how he disses various Brewer-folk in his preseason interviews with the Mets media regarding why he didn't "fit here." I'd like to see Rivera get almost 1/2 the playing time, as he's had some key hits since the Brewers have had him. And, at least he's FASTER than Estrada, even if he hits into double plays at the same rate as Estrada. I'd also like for Rottino & his versatility be given a shot, thereby giving Ned the option of pinch-hitting for either one. In any event, I'd like to think between Kendall & Rivera, they'd come up with more game-changing plays than the likes of Estrada & Miller this year. In all, that WAS a pretty weak tandem this year, at least statistically speaking....

by kgaul on Nov 23, 2007 9:30 PM CST 0 recs

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