Iguchi to Milwaukee, Braun to LF?

by jonk1982 on Dec 5, 2007 2:58 PM CST Comment 30 comments

Rotoworld says:

Agent Rocky Hall said he's expecting the Brewers to extend a two-year offer to Tadahito Iguchi.

Iguchi would likely take over as the Brewers' third baseman, with Ryan Braun getting shifted to left. That's not the kind of upgrade the Brewers first seemed to be shooting for when they entertained the idea of moving Braun, but it might work out OK.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

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I actually like this (sort of)

I don't really like moving Braun, but if that's what they're set on doing I like Iguchi at 3B. Assuming his defense transfers well from 2B, he's excellent defensively, and really consistent offensively. Plus, he doesn't seem very injury-prone.

2 Years/$3.25 million? I'll take it!

You heard it here first: Turnbow will win the 2008 NL Cy Young.

by stevie ray Braun on Dec 5, 2007 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Salary

If Kaz Matsui can make $5.5 million per year from the Astros, there's no way Iguchi gets only $3.25 million again. Iguchi's a better hitter and not much worse defensively (at second). The part that worries me is what happens if Iguchi is only marginal at third. Better than what we had, but meh...I guess they wouldn't go after him hard if they didn't think he'd be a fine defender. At least he hits righties and lefties the same.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to B-R

He didn't play 3rd at all last year. Usually they are pretty good at that stuff, so I think it's still up in the air how good he is defensively at 3rd.

I love this signing.

Ryan Braun is the Ed Hochuli of Third Basemen. Prince is now Chubber Lang

by hyattff2003 on Dec 5, 2007 3:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

can't billy hall play 3b...

move braun to left; stick corey in center; and sign kenny lofton? or does that not make sense for some obvious reason?

Jamie is a Softball Champion!

by Jamie in LA on Dec 5, 2007 3:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

They don't want to move Hall again

Melvin's ruled that out a few times this offseason, since they don't want to keep bouncing Hall around.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That is

if they don't trade him :)

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 5, 2007 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Lofton has a clause in every contract that he must be traded at the deadline and the team recieves a bonus if its to the Indians.

Why get him if we have to trade him?

by MunichBrats on Dec 5, 2007 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't get it either

I know melvin keeps saying he won't do it, but why not?

Move Billy to 3rd, Braun to left, sign a serviceable LF or CF or, worst case scenerio, give TGJ a shot. it seems so obvious.

I'm sorry if Bill has to change positions again, but guess what. I don't care. He's a man, he can handle it.

by SunglassesAtNight on Dec 5, 2007 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ya

that seems like a much better plan. we already have a better third baseman on the team than iguchi.

melvin should just stop all this nonsense and dig out bill's old third baseman's glove.

no rolen; no iguchi.

ps: corey hart is the man; and no one should be playing center field but him.

Jamie is a Softball Champion!

by Jamie in LA on Dec 5, 2007 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft picks

Iguchi was the last guy to make the cutoff for Type A free agent status, so the Phillies would get the team's 1st round pick were he to sign here.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 3:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A guy who has never played 3B before

with average offensive skills for $5-6 a year AND we lose a draft pick?

Not too hot on this idea right now...

by MunichBrats on Dec 5, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IF he's offered arb.

And I think he wasn't/won't...or he was released, or something funky like that.

(At least I hope so, if we give up our 1st rounder for Iguchi I'm going to become a full-time Rays fan.)

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 5, 2007 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gah! I always forget that!

This is the second time you've called me on that. As usual, you are correct:

"The Phillies released Iguchi in accordance with a clause in his contract that allowed him to bypass arbitration and become a free agent after his third season in the majors."

So we don't lose a draft pick if we sign him. <sheepish>

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The weird thing about that...

In order to avoid arb after two years in the bigs, the team had to release him. (Apparently non-tendering is not sufficient.)

That invokes another rule, that if you release a player in the offseason, he can't rejoin your team until May 1st. In other words, his deal made it really hard for him to stay with his initial team. Didn't end up mattering re: ChiSox, since they traded him, but it's a little odd.

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 5, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Iggy's stats

are here. I don't get what all the Brew-ha-ha is all about. A career OPS of .768?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 5, 2007 3:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Enh

If he's plus defensively, that makes up a bit for the mediocre hitting. It'd be nice if he could do both well, but there aren't that many of those guys out there.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently

he was more of a slugger when he played in Japan. It was a few years ago, but all you'd hear about was Iggy's Pop.

Umm, I guess you don't, umm, hear about that much, anymore.

Anyway, I guess I wouldn't assume he's a plus at third base.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 5, 2007 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't either

But playing devil's advocate, I have to assume the team has some more info than just a hunch that he'll be a decent defensive third baseman. I don't really see the point of signing him as anything more than a Craig Counsell utility guy (though he would hit well for a one of those) either.

I guess my original point was that he doesn't have to hit particularly well if his defense makes up for it. Just like Braun's bad defense cost the team some runs in spite of his offense, a good glove can save the team some runs. Iguchi may be below average offensively for a third baseman, but we have decent enough producers at other spots to absorb the hit. In a perfect world, every spot would have guys that were above average with the glove and with the bat, but there's not that many plus-plus guys and you need to make a trade-off in some spots.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive upgrade is questionable

From what I've been reading, I don't think he's played 3rd professionally.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

There's his Japanese fielding stats. I know he only played 2nd in the US.

He could be great there, he could be terrible. Tough to say yet.

by kingcharlesxii on Dec 5, 2007 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's exactly average

he's an average defender, and an average hitter for second base. nice bench player. starting at third base? ridiculous.

iguchi would essentially replace graffy. (have we heard anything about graffy?)

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Dec 5, 2007 4:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Last I heard

Graffy is out until May-June, but he wants to make a comeback.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We could always Counsellino it at third again...

and move Braun to LF.

I doubt someone is going to trade for Hall as a CF, they'll use him at SS or third. So why not give Hall a shot at third ourselves? I can't see him sticking around long term as the CF.

Corey Hart makes the most sense as the CF, Braun in LF, Gross / Whomever in RF, Hall at third. Improves the team without signing a single person. :-/

by warwick5s on Dec 5, 2007 7:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Iguchi a last resort

Looks like Melvin is pursuing other options first:

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/05/melvin-tempers-enthusiasm-over-iguchi.aspx

I still kind of like Iguchi, but I'm glade Melvin has enough sense to exhaust more established 3B possibilities first.

You heard it here first: Turnbow will win the 2008 NL Cy Young.

by stevie ray Braun on Dec 5, 2007 8:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"Glade":

Colloquial version of "glad" which carries the same meaning while simultaneously freshening air.

You heard it here first: Turnbow will win the 2008 NL Cy Young.

by stevie ray Braun on Dec 5, 2007 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gah

seems that melvin has decided that braun is moving. from that link:

"We prefer to find a true third baseman, if we could. If we don't, we may go back his way. I think we've got to exhaust our other efforts first.

Looks like I'm wrong. I've been wrong before... can't remember when but I'm sure it's happened.

However, let's salvage this. My new theory on Melvin, which shouldn't surprise anyone given what we've seen over the years, is he is simply using the media to drive prices down. Right? So what have we heard... crede, iguchi, rolen, braun's moving to left... even braun said, i'd move to the OF to help the team... it's all too upfront. So let's assume that all of those messages have an alterior motive.

What would that be in this case?

The only thing I can come up with is this-- Melvin: "We don't need your LF, we can find a 3b and move braun..." This way, if it looks like there are lots of options at 3b, then whoever is dangling a LF has to compete not only against other LFs (not too many) but the whole 3b crop to make a deal with Melvin.

The weird thing in all of this is LaPorta. If he's on the braun track he's due here in about a season and a third.

I don't know... If i had to guess... something big is going to happen. something that brings in a Haren or other young cost controlled front of the rotation starter and creates holes other places.

Personally, fielder-weeks-hardy-braun across the infield and hart-hall-LF in the OF is so aesthetically pleasing I don't want to see that EVER change... I'm nervous.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Dec 6, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oops

missed the money quote:

"We'd have to feel we were shut out on every other opportunity for third base, and just have to feel comfortable with making the move with Ryan to the outfield."

Which is almost two conflicting statements... we need a 3b bad enough to look at iguchi, but we'd only take a 3b if we truly want to move braun...

Also, from Melvin's perspective. If he doesn't move braun, and he throws up a huge stinker in '08... well those are the kinds of things that GMs lose their job over. "you knew he was terrible, how could you sit threw a whole season of historically bad defense at third?"

of course he stuck with weeks which is almost an identical situation... weeks coulda been moved to center and hall to 2b...

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Dec 6, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WAIT

What happened to signing for less money with a team that has a chance to be good?

TED IS TO NED WHAT CHENEY IS TO BUSH.

by CATALYST on Dec 5, 2007 8:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well

If a player thinks like that, about 2/3rds of the league would qualify for less money.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Dec 5, 2007 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IMHO

I'm really thinking this could be an off season where we're almost better doing very little. Sure, I'd love to see a big-time LF or a top flight closer, but unless we're willing to create holes in other places, I just don't think it will happen and would rather build from within, especially with regards to the 3B/LF issue.

I applaud Melvin for "thinking outside the box" a bit, but I'm really leery of moving Braun to LF without knowing how he'd do and without giving him another opportunity to prove he can be our 3B. If (and of course it's a big if) he can be even average at 3B, we would be lightyears ahead of most teams in that position. Really, how many great offense 3Bs are there? Even in the Hall of Fame?

Moreover, I don't think that Melvin would be canned if Braun's defense only marginally improves. Yes, we knew about his defensive problems, but he also seems determined to prove the naysayers wrong. Maybe it's the small-market, longterm-thinking mentality, but I, for one, am willing to endure another year of defensive problems to see if Braun can prove himself at the position.

by oaklandbrewerfan on Dec 6, 2007 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

(mostly)

Leave Braun at third --- if his 2008 defense is so abysmally horrible, then fine, we can move him next year. And I don't think Moustache would be canned either, not given Braun's inexperience at third. (Canned Moustache? Gross.)

We do need pitching help, though, and I don't know if that can be fixed from within. We have a lot of pitchers, but how many of them are any good?

I'm all for trading Sheets this offseason. There's no way we're going to have him in 2009 anyway, not with the salary he'd command as a free agent. It sounds like the Dodgers are interested and have outfielders to spare, thanks to the Andruw Jones signing. (If we can keep from losing the Crabbe man and Hall in the same week, though, that would be nice.)

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 6, 2007 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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