Lee Drops Appeal

by hilbelink on Jul 18, 2007 3:38 PM CDT

How convenient for Mr Lee, that he can simply put off his suspension for fighting until such a time as suits him...

Lee started serving the suspension, in part, because he has a sore left ankle after fouling a pitch off of it Tuesday night.
"I'm going to be limping for two days," he said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2941084

Grrrr!!

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Eh

So it goes in baseball --- if we were in the same situation, I'm sure that's how we'd play it.

I'm just happy that his lack of self-control will cost him 5 games: with only A-Ram to pitch around, the Cubs are that less scary. I think they'll be lucky to win 3 of the 5, and 1 out of 5 is a distinct possibility.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 18, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions

well, they got the one

crushed the giants today, 12-1.

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 18, 2007 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh.

Hmf.

Well, I think they'll be lucky to win 2 of the 4, and 0 out of 4 is a distinct possibility.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 18, 2007 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Try again

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 21, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions

Hmm

2 out of 3, and 0 for 3?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 21, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions

So far they're 3-1

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 21, 2007 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good?

Joe Borchard 2007 watch: 194 PA, 57 K, 55 TB, .199/.294/.322 -- "There are freaking geeks out there who get ... off on this kind of stuff," Melvin said.

by TheJay on Jul 21, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions

No matter how it goes.....

...we'll take it, just as the Brewers have.

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions

enjoy this year cause...

in the next five years, this will be the closest you'll be to the young brewers who will only get better.

Ned for Prez!! Seriously, he needs a new job.

by Zel123 on Jul 22, 2007 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Hmmmmm....

....rather than meet snarky with snarky, let's try this. Your post infers the Cubs are old. Not true.

Lee and Soriano are 31. Ramirez is 29. Theriot and Fontenot are 27. Supersub DeRosa is 32. Center Field uber prospect Felix Pie is 22. Catcher of the future Geovany Soto is 24. As far as pitchers go, Rich Hill is 27, Lilly's 31 and Marquis is 29. Zambrano is just 26 and Sean Marshall 24. Future stud closer Carlos Marmol is 24. That's 14 core guys with an average age of 25.5.

Lee and Ramirez are tied up in long terms deals as are DeRosa, Lilly and Marquis. Zambrano is the one contract concern. The others are arb eligible for a while yet.

The Brewers-

Estrada is 31. Braun is 23. Fielder is 22 (but if he doesn't control his weight he won't last long). Hardy, Hart and Weeks are 24. Hall is 27, Jenkins 33 and Mench is 29. On pitchers, Bush is 27, Capuano 28, Gallardo 21, Sheets 29, Suppan 32, Turnbow and Vargas 29, and Cordero is 32. That's a core group of 17 for an average age of 27.2. Even if you don't consider Jenkins are part of your core, it's still 26.9.

It's reasonable to argue that if Fielder gets much bigger he might not be productive. Sheets of course is injury prone. Capuano's due for a long term contract. Can or will the Brewers pony up? Estrada is on his fourth team in seven seasons for a reason. Is there a catcher waiting? You really have a core of Hardy, Hart, Hall, Braun and Gallardo you can count on for the next five years. Care to rethink your claim?

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Hmm

So you don't see any drop off coming as those guys get further into their thirties? Also, you use strange math. I think you forgot one of the 27-year-olds in your calculation.

Are you really that comfortable with guys like Lilly and Marquis in your rotation? Lilly's on his fourth team in six seasons -- is there a reason for that?

You also seem to have a lot of faith in Cubs management promoting guys wisely and using them wisely. Isn't that the same front office that just blocked Soto for the rest of the year by trading for Jason Kendall? Isn't that the same front office that would rather sign worn-out corner outfielders to block Matt Murton? I'll take the Brewers' management's proven ability to develop players ahead of the Cubs' front office's ability to trade for or sign "leadership" guys any day.

Joe Borchard 2007 watch: 194 PA, 57 K, 55 TB, .199/.294/.322 -- "There are freaking geeks out there who get ... off on this kind of stuff," Melvin said.

by TheJay on Jul 22, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions

That's the thing

The two best Cub players are in their 30s, with A-Ram on the cusp of joining them. In 5 years, if the Cubs are lucky, NONE of them will be on their roster, because they won't hitting up to their salaries. It'd be like us pinning our hopes on Jenkins and Mench.

Plus. our "core" is just better than theirs, regardless of how old they are.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 22, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions

But here's the thing-

For two examples right away, look no farther than the Texas Rangers past and present for good to great postion players and last place finishes. Or this year's Yankees for solid position players but lagging behind in the standings. Why? Bad pitching. No one is disputing the quality of Hardy, Hart, et al. But who do the Brewers have to count on the next five years on the mound? Suppan? Capuano? Sheets? I read somewhere a few minutes ago Sheets is out until 9/1 this time. As I said before, Capuano, if he stays healthy, is due for a big contract. Can the Brewers re-sign him? Certainly there's Gallardo, but that's a pretty small sample size so far.

The Cubs have Hill and Marshall, with Zambrano now saying he's 90% certain he's staying. Marmol has the makings of a lights out cloer, a la Francisco Rodriguez. It's primarily pitching where I like the Cubs' chances.

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Please Point Out The Math Mistake....

...I'm not being facetious. Where is it?

As for Kendall, veteran leadership down the stretch. It never hurts to have a veteran behind the plate, and the Cubs didn't have one. The last one they had, you've got now. Did the Brewers develop Damian Miller? Or Estrada?

And who's the worn out corner outfielder? Soriano? Murton's a left fielder. He doesn't have the arm for right.

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Here

Well, like I said in my post, you missed one of the 27-year-olds, but here's visual proof:

31 + 31 = 62 (Soriano, Lee)
62 + 29 = 91 (Ramirez)
91 + 27 = 118 (Fontenot)
118 + 27 = 145 (Theriot)
145 + 32 = 177 (DeRosa)
177 + 22 = 199 (Pie)
199 + 24 = 223 (Soto)
223 + 27 = 250 (Hill)
250 + 31 = 281 (Lilly)
281 + 29 = 310 (Marquis)
310 + 26 = 336 (Zambrano)
336 + 24 = 360 (Marshall)
360 + 24 = 384 (Marmol)

384/14 = 27.4
If you take out 27, you get 357/14 = 25.5

Also, you're wrong about Capuano's contract status. He was just arbitration eligible for the first time this offseason. You must have been thinking of Cordero.

As for worn-out outfielders, are you really saying you'd rather have Cliff Floyd (is he ever 100%?) and Jacque Jones on the roster than Matt Murton, defense included? What does it matter if the Brewers developed Miller or Estrada? Fact of the matter is, either one of them is much better than Kendall or whatever offensive black hole suits up for the Cubs the rest of the year.

I'll take my chances on the Brewers making do via the trade market and player development over the next few years. Enjoy the albatross contracts come 2009.

Joe Borchard 2007 watch: 194 PA, 57 K, 55 TB, .199/.294/.322 -- "There are freaking geeks out there who get ... off on this kind of stuff," Melvin said.

by TheJay on Jul 22, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Either way on the numbers.....

...on I don't claim to be a math wiz, they don't indicate much of a difference in the core groups.

And on Capuano, the original statement had to do with lasting the next five years or so. He'll be due for a long term contract within that time. No one has answered yet. Will the Brewers pony up? When I mentione arbitration I was talking about the Cubs' young starters.

And as far as right field goes, yeah, I'd rather have Floyd or Jones over Murton. Murton simply isn't a right fielder. Putting him there is what got him sent back to Iowa. He was lost out there. For whatever reason, he had trouble with angles and more importantly, his arm isn't suited for right. I'd rather see a mix of Floyd, Jones and Pagan out there. For the time being, since Jones seems to have claimed CF, Floyd and Pagan will do. It's got us this far.

As for deadline trades, Hendry has come through before. Whenever they've been in contention he's made some moves. Only he knows if Kendall is his only move. I suspect not. The Cubs could use a right fielder, sure, or even a center fielder, both with some pop. These past two games proved you can't always count on Ramirez and/or Lee and Soriano. The Cubs have some minor league position and pitching prospects and maybe even a guy or two on the M.L. roster to use as trade bait. Are the Brewers similarly situated?

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions

I doubt it

The way the Brewers have built the team is by trading off guys before they've gotten too expensive, etc. So no, I don't think they'll sign him to a long-term deal. They'll use him until he's done with arbitration and let him hit the market, or they'll trade him by that time. Either way, by the time they need to make a move, there will be others waiting in the wings to step in.

As for deals this year, I think the Brewers are similarly situated, should the right trade come up. However, given what's out there, this team can sit knowing they don't need to overpay for marginal improvement anywhere on the diamond.

Joe Borchard 2007 watch: 194 PA, 57 K, 55 TB, .199/.294/.322 -- "There are freaking geeks out there who get ... off on this kind of stuff," Melvin said.

by TheJay on Jul 23, 2007 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions

Prince

He has always been fat, and always been awesome. So why does everyone expect him to gain another 50 pounds? At this rate he is the NL MVP, so he is definitely in our core that far outshines the cubs in potential.

Ned for Prez!! Seriously, he needs a new job.

by Zel123 on Jul 22, 2007 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions

my point was...

we have 5, as you called it, uber prospects to your 1. THat one being felix pie, who hasnt shown any staying power in the majors yet. Thats all im saying and you really have no way of refuting that point.

Ned for Prez!! Seriously, he needs a new job.

by Zel123 on Jul 22, 2007 5:11 PM CDT reply actions

Then You Should Have Said That...

...because one has to go a long way to get that out of what you wrote the first time.

Theriot, Fontenot, Soto, Pie and Marmol. The Cubs' five and then there's the Brewers' five. Neither of us knows how it will turn out.

by BeerCub @ Brew Crew Ball on Jul 22, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions

that is what i said...

I said nothing about the cubs being old originally, I said the young brewers are going to be better than the cubs in the future.

Also, I cannot believe you are even trying to compare the cubs five with the brewers five. You could be the only player in all of america who think that its even close. I would take Ryan Braun alone over the cubs five. The fact is, the brewers actually have young prospects. Theriot and Fontenot are both 27, normally 27 is a peak year for baseball players. Soto may be good, but i thought i read his defense is suspect, so im not sure if he'll even be a catcher. Pie hasnt done anything in the majors yet, so he's unproven and Marmol does look good, i wont refute that.

The fact is that we have young talent that have had huge production now. They are going to only get better. As for pitching, Gallardo looks pretty good so far. Manny Parra has looked good, and we still have will inman in the minors. We also have villenueva who has been good. Once again, a lot of young guys who have produced pretty well. This team has the makings of a pretty solid franchise, and it seems like we have an owner who is willing to spend some money, especially if we are winning.

Ned for Prez!! Seriously, he needs a new job.

by Zel123 on Jul 23, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions

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