Coin toss!

by roguejim on Sep 8, 2007 8:03 AM CDT in News

If you're like me and just read about Bobby Cox's endorsement of Ned Yost as Manager of the Year, you probably need to read something else fast, before you get violently ill.

How about a Brewer-related coin toss? And you get to participate!

Tomorrow afternoon, the Milwaukee Brewers will participate in coin flips with the St. Louis Cardinals and Chicago Cubs to determine home field for potential one-game playoffs in the event of a tie for the Central Division title. The Brewers will have the option of making the "heads-or-tails" call in the coin toss with St. Louis.

Brewers Assistant General Manager Gord Ash will make the official call for Milwaukee via a conference call with league and team officials. And while it will be Ash making the call, the people's choice will rule.

To vote, click here, and vote in the lower left corner. I'm voting tails, but heads has a pretty big lead.

Update [2007-9-8 9:3:17 by roguejim]: And the winner is...(see inside)

0 recs | Comment 32 comments

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I'm voting heads

It seems that the Brewers have a disproportionate number of players with large heads, maybe it's a sign!

by stevie ray Braun on Sep 6, 2007 7:03 PM CDT 0 recs

I like that thought too.

Heads it is.

by Zel123 on Sep 6, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

What I really want to know is...

who made the call in the coin toss that decided we'd be getting the call for the matchup with the Cardinals and not the one with the Cubs? :)

by Zeyes on Sep 6, 2007 7:41 PM CDT 0 recs

If it's a quarter

Then you have to call tails because the heads side is minutely heavier, isn't it? Of course, they probably use genuine legal tender in Kiribati collectible Mike Morgan Lasting Lefties 24k gold plated coins from the National Collector's Mint so I guess that thinking goes out the window.

Daily Ryan Braun leaderboard watch and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Sep 6, 2007 8:05 PM CDT 0 recs

Perhaps they use a Para!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 6, 2007 8:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

ooooof. (tails)

"I wore 37 in Tampa... my brother Marcus wore 37... my brother Sam wore 73... my nieces and nephews wear 37... It's a family thing." McClung

by Jamie in LA on Sep 6, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

If it were a special Mench-edition quarter,

it would never come up heads....

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 6, 2007 9:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

i voted tails

"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Michael M on Sep 6, 2007 9:16 PM CDT 0 recs

i voted

tails

Nats and Brew Crew are where it's at

by IronBMike on Sep 6, 2007 9:43 PM CDT 0 recs

Tails here

Actually, at my office were talking about what kind of coin might be used. I did some cursory Web research and couldn't come up with anything conclusive. Does anyone know what coin is used?

I figured they'd use some kind of limited-edition commemmorative thingy so they could auction it. It would be a pretty cool collector item. (...IF the game is actually played. ... actually, maybe even if it isn't, as long as the Brewers go deep into the playoffs.)

by Dros on Sep 6, 2007 10:07 PM CDT 0 recs

Somewhat off topic...

Let's give Ned our support for the rest of the year. Yeah, it's unpopular, but he ain't going anywhere. At the very least he should be able to visit his local coffee shop in peace.

Voting heads.

by 108st on Sep 6, 2007 10:47 PM CDT 0 recs

i agree somewhat

i mean i've always felt that ned is a very good guy and that he means well. it's not that i don't want success for the brewers or yost, it's that, in my opinion, his decisions make success more difficult. and i'd never bother him at a coffee shop or some BS like that, though i'm sure some fans do and that sucks.
in a crazy way, that comes with the territory. you're either unnoticed, praised like a king, or villified.

"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Michael M on Sep 6, 2007 11:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

Bottom line is this..

I dislike ned, but he knows 10 times more baseball than any of us, and though his decisions seem strange, there has to be a rhyme to his reason. If we make the playoffs, it will be hard to continue to complain.

by Zel123 on Sep 6, 2007 11:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't know if that is true

I mean, it's true he's been around baseball a lot longer than we have, but I don't know if that necessarily means that he knows a lot more than we do about things that are baseball-related. At best, he'll know things about players (say, how they hit in BP, what they might tell him about how they feel) that we won't know. He probably has information about players that (a) influences the decisions he makes, and (b) isn't available to the rest of us.

However, I bet if pressed, he makes a lot of decisions based on a "gut feeling" more than anything quantifiable, or is caught unaware more often than he should (for example, not having anyone in the bullpen pitching when a starter is in trouble in the 5th or 6th).

Having said all that, I think he should be able to go out in public in relative peace. If I saw him in public, I would offer some encouragement before complaining about his decisions.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 7, 2007 2:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

Overall

I'd give ned a B-. He's doing a lot with a very young group of players and a lot of managers don't have the patience to wait out the growing pains that the Brewers have had. And like it or not, he's led our band of youngsters to meaningful games in September and hopefully the playoffs.

He's made a lot of goofs but he's also had his successes and you can't focus on one side and not at least acknowledge the other.

by antbogey on Sep 7, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well

I've acknowledged in game threads when he's done well, and I've agreed with a lot more of his decisions in the second half than the first half.

I don't give him much credit for the ballplayers he's working with: yes they're young and sometimes error-prone, but I think most managers in the league now would be thrilled to manage the Brewers, based on who we have on the field. (And besides, if we lose a game because of a key error, I don't fault Nedgar, unless he's doing something like putting Graffanino at first because Prince needs a breather soon after an offday, and Graffy botches an easy play.)

I also don't give him much credit for playing meaningful games in September. Going into this month, we lost 32 games out of the past 50. That we play in a watered down division shouldn't affect how good a manager he is. If he was making good managerial decisions but we were third place in a tough decision, I would certainly defend him.

I'm pretty much only evaluating what I see him do: who he starts, strategy he calls during the game, and changes he makes as the game winds down. When he brings in a LOOGY to face a right-handed batter or Jinxie to face a left-handed batter, he better have a good reason for doing it. Just base on those kinds of decisions, I don't see how we're better off with him. Like Jacob once said, it's like he's picking names out of a hat, and the only justification we have is "I have my reasons." I wonder if one of those reasons is "My Harvey Keuhn bobblehead told me so."

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 7, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

I bet...

he knows about teaching baseball 10 times more than any of us alone. A GM is not going to invest time and money into a manager that isn't very smart. Ned is smart, but the bullpen and the starters that get shelled in the 6th or 7th inning have made him look like an idiot.

by Zel123 on Sep 7, 2007 8:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't know about the smartness factor

Now might be a good time to refer back to the first diary I ever posted.

Now, granted, the money and time crunch has changed with the demise of the reserve system, importance of market in determining budgets, etc., but I would guess that the fact a guy has been in baseball his whole life is more of a factor than how smart he is. Baseball strikes me, on many levels, as a type of good ol' boys network in which it's awful hard for an outsider to gain entry. Now, you may be right, but there's been some pretty dumb guys to run major league teams, so I can't agree GM's won't invest in guys who aren't smart.

Daily Ryan Braun leaderboard watch and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Sep 7, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well that's fine

I don't mind if the manager says things like them thar vikings --- or even nucular, for that matter.

If he's baseball saavy and does those things, then he's cunning.

If he leaves starters in too long, plays poor percentages (like the wrong half of Menchkins), puts Ray King in to face righties, etc. AND isn't very smart, then he's a nitwit. Or a Nedwit, if you will.

I think the reason Nedgar was hired in the first place was because back when we sucked, he was willing to come up with a plan of how to win then, with the low-talent teams we had. Which was fine --- he seemed to be a rah-rah type of guy, had some energy when none seemed justified, so that was fine.

That kind of coach isn't needed as much now, though. If we had a VORM stat (Value over Replacement Manager), I can't imagine we'd be doing very well. If we just miss winning the division (and thus the playoffs), I'd have a hard time believing that if we had a manager who made half of what I'd call managerial mistakes, that that could be the difference. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe my view is colored entirely by hindsight --- but I don't think it is.

FWIW, Nick Leyva didn't impress me when he was managing the Phillies, but I didn't think he was that bad either (though I was much younger then and probably didn't pay attention to such things).

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 7, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

That may be true

Determining when a pitcher is gassed or not is probably one of the harder things to determine if you're a coach, so I'll grant you (and Nedgar) that much: the fact that our starters and relievers have been much worse than expected has tied his hands somewhat. (In a sense, a starter on a good start is a ticking time bomb: you know he's going to explode, and fast, but you just don't know when. Unfortunately, much of our bullpen lately has been pitching like starters who have already been pitching for 6 innings, so there's really no expectation of improvement.)

If he's a smart teacher, then he can go to AAA, or be an assistant coach. I haven't seen much managerial saaviness out of him though, and I think I'm on pretty safe footing when I say that, strictly based on managerial strategy, his decisions as manager don't pan out more often than not.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 7, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

Tails was my boy

...all throughout Sonic 2 and Sonic 3. I have to vote tails.

C. Magruder scored, R. Weeks to second on balk

by alkaseitzer on Sep 6, 2007 11:08 PM CDT 0 recs

Hmmm

Tails : Sonic the Hedgehog franchise

Scrappy Doo : Scooby Doo franchise

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 7, 2007 2:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

play ball

I am really pumped about tomorrow nights game, more so then in a long time! I can't wait for it to start. GO Brewers!

by Bigdogg2002 on Sep 6, 2007 11:34 PM CDT 0 recs

Tails never fails.

Lordz Of Vengeance....I think I hate Estrada more than I hate the Cubs.

by Dikembe Meiztombo on Sep 6, 2007 11:56 PM CDT 0 recs

But yet...

my HS soccer team used to call "Get head(s)", and they went to state.

The lesson as always is, what the hell do I know?

Lordz Of Vengeance....Sometimes I drink...Okay, most of the time.

by Dikembe Meiztombo on Sep 6, 2007 11:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

EXACTLY...

TAILS NEVER FAILS.

Hey Ned! Ever heard of small ball? Or are your balls too small?

by CATALYST on Sep 7, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think this coin toss is important

Judging how our last trip to St. Louis went, I don't think I want to see the Brewers heading to Busch.

by antbogey on Sep 7, 2007 10:20 AM CDT 0 recs

Coin toss results

Well, all of you who stuck with heads --- your perseverence paid off. Heads beat tails by more than 9000 votes, and when Gord Ash's call of heads was the right one, giving us home field advantage if the Cards and Crew tie at the end of the regular season.

Should the Crew and Cubs end up tied, we go to Wrigley.

Should the Cubs and Cards end up tied,...well, who cares.

I wonder what happens in a three-way tie.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 8, 2007 8:00 AM CDT 0 recs

(Whoops!)

9000 votes were cast, not in favor of heads. And of the Cards and Cubs end up tied, they go to St. Louis.

If we end up tied for the Wild Card, chances are the tiebreaker will be at Miller Park, unless we end up tied with the Cubs or Rox.

You can go here for all the details.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Sep 8, 2007 8:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

Of course

the Yanks would get all of their tie breakers at home.
Let's hope there isn't a 3-way tie for the division. I think a 3-way tie in which all teams are .500 would cause the national media to churn out smug article after smug article.

by molitorfan on Sep 8, 2007 8:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

but each article would end

with what the cardinals did with their bad record last year.

For all the criticism the NL central gets, they still have represented the NL in the world series the last 3 years.

by Zel123 on Sep 8, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

Three-way tie

My head hurts trying to read this, but here you go:

Scenario #4: If three Clubs are tied for first place in a Division (or Wild Card) with an identical winning percentage at the conclusion of the championship season and the tied Clubs do not have identical records against one another in the championship season, the tie for the Division Championship (or Wild Card) shall be broken as follows:

If the three tied Clubs have identical records against one another in the championship season, the Office of the Commissioner shall supervise a draw that results in the Clubs' being designated Club "A," "B," and "C."

If the tied Clubs do not have identical records against one another in the champoinship season, they will be designated Club "A,""B," and "C" based on their records in head-to- head competition during the championship season as follows:

If Club 1 has a better record against each of Clubs 2 and 3, and Club 2 has a better record against Club 3, then Club 1 shall choose a designation as Club "A," "B," or "C," and Club 2 shall choose a designation from the remaining two designations. Club 3 shall be assigned the remaining designation.
If Club 1 has a better record against each of Clubs 2 and 3, and Club 2 and Club 3 have the same record against each other, then Club 1 shall choose a designation as Club "A," "B," or "C," and the Office of the Commissioner shall supervise a draw between Clubs 2 and 3, the winner of which shall choose one of the remaining two designations. The remaining Club shall be assigned the remaining designation.
If Club 1 and Club 2 have the same record against each other but each has a better record against Club 3, then the Office of the Commissioner shall supervise a draw between Clubs 1 and 2, the winner of which shall choose a designation as Club "A," "B," or "C." The Club losing the draw shall choose a designation from the remaining two designations. Club 3 shall be assigned the remaining designation.
If Club 1 has a better record against Club 2, Club 2 has a better record against Club 3, and Club 3 has a better record against Club 1, then the three Clubs shall be ranked on the basis of overall winning percentage within that three-Club group, and the Club with the highest winning percentage from among that three-Club group shall have first choice among designations as Club"A," "B," or "C," the Club with the next highest winning percentage from among that three-Club group shall have the next choice between the two remaining designations, and the Club with the lowest winning percentage from among that three-Club group shall be assigned the remaining designation. If two or more of the Clubs within such three-Club group have the same winning percentage among the group, the Office of the Commissioner shall supervise a draw between the Clubs so tied to determine priority of selection among the designations.

Club "A" shall play Club "B" at the ballpark of Club "A" on Monday, September 29. The following day (Tuesday, September 30), the winner of the first game shall be the home Club in a second game, against Club "C." The winner of the game between Club"C" and the Club that won the game between Club"A" and Club"B" shall be declared the Division Champion.

Example of Scenario #4: The Chicago White Sox, Kansas City Royals and Minnesota Twins tie for the AL Central Division Championship. The Seattle Mariners have a better record than all three tied Clubs and would be the Wild Card. Based on their head-to-head records through games of September 7 (CWS 7-5 over each Minnesota and KC; KC 11-8 over Minnesota), the White Sox would choose their designation as Club "A," "B," or "C," and Kansas City would choose a designation from the remaining two designations. Minnesota would be assigned the remaining designation.

Daily Ryan Braun leaderboard watch and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Sep 8, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

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