Brewers sign Cameron
I don't know how I feel about this:
Free-agent center fielder Mike Cameron has reached preliminary agreement with the Brewers on a one-year contract with a club option for 2009, according to major-league sources.
The deal is pending a physical.
...
The addition of Cameron likely will result in the Brewers moving Bill Hall to third base and Ryan Braun to left field.
[UPDATE: I'll link to it in the comments, but the financials look surprisingly reasonable: about $5.5 million for 2008, and a club option for $10 million in 2009, with a $750,000 buyout. It also looks like we'll go with Gwoss (Grynn?) in center during the suspension. --- roguejim]
I've never been a fan of Cameron. He'll forever be linked as the main guy the Reds traded to get Griffey, Jr. from the Mariners. If anything else, this will quit the "No way Braun can play 3B" complainers ... but I'm not certain it's the right move.
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69 comments
Comments
I'm cool with it.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jan 11, 2008 2:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think I've figured out Doug's reasoning
by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 11, 2008 2:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
or....
by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 11, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yuck
by Jamie in LA on Jan 11, 2008 2:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
<Vader>
by stevie ray Braun on Jan 11, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Aftermath
by stevie ray Braun on Jan 11, 2008 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good move
Him in CF, Hall at third, and Braun in left makes the Brewers a whole lot better.
by jonk1982 on Jan 11, 2008 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
so do we assume ..........................
by storminTAZZ on Jan 11, 2008 2:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
moves a definite?
Or maybe -- and how cool would this be -- they ALL learn to play ALL the positions, and rotate every inning.
by DikJones on Jan 11, 2008 2:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
did jeff go on vacation again?
by Jamie in LA on Jan 11, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
nope
by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 11, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha :)
by Jamie in LA on Jan 11, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pay your Bill
by WSB Chris on Jan 11, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Jeff
by TheJay on Jan 11, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
If anything I think Braun in the outfield is going to get him more ABs in close games.
by SwampBuck on Jan 11, 2008 2:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta
by drezdn on Jan 11, 2008 2:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
1 year deal
I'm willing to predict the 2009 outfield is: RF Braun, CF Hart, LF LaPorta.
by TK on Jan 11, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
40 Man...
Do we have to drop someone from the 40 man to make room? (I think we were at 39)
by SgtClueLs on Jan 11, 2008 2:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the previous statements
by Adam P on Jan 11, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this might be a stupid comment
by baseballdan1092 on Jan 11, 2008 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
by baseballdan1092 on Jan 11, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Also, I don't think there's any talk of LaPorta in centerfield, which means we'd likely be moving people around AGAIN when LaPorta arrives.
I'm really not liking this square peg/round hole approach to filling out a starting lineup.
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But....
by TK on Jan 11, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Still, I don't like the thought of Braun having to learn a new position, especially if there's validity to the argument that learning centerfield played a part in Bill E. Hall's struggles last season. I don't like the thought of moving Billy around again in a year or two. And I highly doubt that the difference in production between Cameron and Grillon is going to be worth the added salary. (I hope Moustache was able to knock 1/6th off the price for the suspension!) :)
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom H says
After serving a 25-game suspension at the start of the season for testing positive for a banned stimulant last year, Cameron will take over in center field for the Brewers. Bill Hall will move from center to third base, with Ryan Braun shifting from third to left.
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
I did a fun search on baseballreference.com and learned that in modern major league baseball hsitory (i.e., since 1901), only two players have had seasons where they had a slugging percentage as low as Cameron's with as many strikeouts. Rob Deer in 1991 and Dave Nicholson in 1963.
by TrueBlueBrewCrew on Jan 11, 2008 3:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Deer vs Cameron
by jonk1982 on Jan 11, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Park factors
by kingcharlesxii on Jan 11, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this offseason
(That being said, I was calling for Ted Thompson's head as late of September 2007 and had this conspiracy theory that Ted had purposely left Favre with no offensive weapons so that Favre would flop like 2005, and the public would be okay with Ted forcing him out.)
by keephopealive on Jan 11, 2008 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ehhh
by sheeter on Jan 11, 2008 4:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So.
I like the defensive upside, and I hope they got him cheap as a result of the down year offensively, but this really does feel like a stretch to fill a hole. I know there hasn't been much market for the starters so far, but I can't help but think (fear) we could have done better than Cameron as the season approached by moving a pitcher or two.
Then again, maybe Melvin thinks having the extra arms around is probably a good idea given the injury histories of Sheets and Parra, and Capuano's struggles since the all-star break of 2006.
Are rebuilding organizations that bankrupt of talent and "finishing" a roster that appears ready to make a post-season run different skills? Melvin and his front office (Jack Z.) have done a pretty good job of the former. I sure hope they've done a better job of the latter than it looks to me that they've done so far this offseason. The thing about this move that brings me down a bit is that they're probably done. These are your opening day 2008 Brewers. I guess it was naive to hope for anything more. But knowing that (at last) and Olney's recent optimistic read on the Crew still aren't enough to give me positive vibes.
With the Cubs perhaps having one last big move to go, I'm beginning to be reminded of the night before Agincourt scenes from Henry V: the English (i.e., the Brewers) are outnumbered and huddled around their fires talking about death, while the French (i.e., the Cubs) are bragging about their shiny new armor and taking bets on how many englishmen they'll each kill. (You can almost hear Zambrano saying, "Would it were day!").
I just hope it ends the same way.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 11, 2008 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I think the Brewers and Cubs were about even before the signing. The improvements in defense alone will likely net us a few games, and there's reason to expect a little bit of a bounce-back in Cameron's stats (getting out of PetCo, a history of .800ish OPS [including a very good 2006], easier access to banned substances through new teammates, etc.). I mean, he could be washed up, but unless the Dodgers changed their mind about Ethier, he's probably the best option out of several uninspiring ones.
Best of all, if he IS washed up, we cut him loose at the end of the season.
The worst part of the signing, to me, is what it might mean after the season, but I can worry about that later.
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Actually the more comments on the signing I read from people who are smarter than I am, the better I feel about it. And the park differential hadn't occurred to me either. The "people" at bizarro BCB are, by and large, not very happy with the signing from a Cubs fan perspective. But since it's the offseason the only people hanging out there are probably depressed pessimists like myself... :)
Interesting too that the bizarro BCB crowd has also already mentioned the possibility that Cameron could outperform Fukudome.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 11, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
defensive upgrade
We all know it's going to be a defensive upgrade for the team, but we needed someone like Lofton to get on base. Cameron has a .341 career OBP, but it has gone down a little in the last couple years. Melvin must not have had anything going on the Lofton deal, otherwise I'm not sure we'd have seen this signing happen.
This page is great, but come discuss with some more fans on my page too!!!
by jimmyb1799 on Jan 11, 2008 4:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's the PEDs
by nmc on Jan 11, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy with the move
There really weren't a whole lot of options out there and I feel this move upgrades the defense significantly and has the potential of having pretty solid offensive upside as well.
The only question is what the defensive alignment will be for the first 25 games. I'd suspect Hart will man center and that's not a bad situation for the short term (he was just a touch below average last year).
by kingcharlesxii on Jan 11, 2008 4:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A fantasy projection
"Poor guy has spent the last 7 years hitting in pitcher-friendly parks. Now he's past peak and in the middle of a [power] decline. Expect the descent to continue."
.250/.331/.436
(from the Baseball Forecaster)
by senryu on Jan 11, 2008 4:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
More analysis
It's very surprising to see Cameron settle for a one-year deal with at least a couple of other clubs interested in him. The Brewers will likely move Bill Hall to third base to make room for him. The move puts them in much better position to challenge the Cubs in the NL Central.
It looks like the Cubs were interested too. Hah!
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 4:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's the scoop
And here's something else that was made clear to me by folks in the know. This is not the precursor to another deal. The plan is to move Bill Hall from center to third and Ryan Braun from third to left field, and both players have been told that.
In the first 25 games without Cameron, look for the Brewers to use backup outfielders such as Tony Gwynn Jr. and Gabe Gross in center. Corey Hart will stay in right and Braun in left.
This is all pending a physical on Monday.
by roguejim on Jan 11, 2008 4:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
the signing looks a lot better to me...
very surprised he signed for only one year. he must have really wanted to play on this team; which is obviously a good thing.
so, my next (probably dumb) question: is cameron that much better defensively in center than corey?
by Jamie in LA on Jan 11, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Yes. I'm not sure everybody here realizes just how good defensively Cameron is, even after losing a half-step or step over the year.
by jonk1982 on Jan 11, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that it really matters...
I wonder if Bill Hall now wonders where he'll be moved to before the 2009 season.
by TheJay on Jan 11, 2008 5:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not steriods
Please note that he is suspended for 25 games, while a steroid suspension is 50-plus.
by jonk1982 on Jan 11, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, you're right
by TheJay on Jan 11, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
Considering the guy is a proven major leaguer, signed for sub-Jenkins money, has a good fielding resume, and only one year ... this is a situation I can live with. It now allows Hall to settle in at third, Braun to learn the outfield, and a year for LaPorta to learn RF (if they dare not switch Braun around again).
Another way to look at it ... if they think Gwynn is not just a replacement, it gives the kid another season to get acclimated and would be ready to take over CF next season (should LaPorta not be ready or someone is traded). He's already going to get a great chance in April to show he's worth something.
Yet another way to look at it ... consider the names bandied about to "fix" this situation:
Luis Gonzalez
Pedro Feliz
Brad Wilkerson
Scott Rolen
Mike Cameron
Shawn Green
Ben Grieve
Jeff Cirillo
Hank Blaylock
...others I can remember
They all come with baggage and subsequent Brewers players position shifts, I can honestly say that I would only prefer Blaylock over Cameron (and the reason why he's probably not a Brewer is because the Rangers were asking for too much). Defense rarely goes into slumps, right? Well, then Cameron was the only guy you could count on of the above to do something on the field consistently above average.
I think it's a sufficient move and it helps the team, though the position shifts are troublesome. If Bill Hall, again, takes this in stride, he'll forever be one of my top three Brewers with four l's in his name.
by nmc on Jan 11, 2008 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ok, let's roll
- Weeks
- Hardy
- Braun
- Fielder
- Hart
- Hall
- Cameron
- Kendall
by Braunstalker on Jan 11, 2008 5:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll learn to like this
As for his strikeout rate, it's not going to make the team any worse at that stat than we were last year. Jenkins wasn't exactly Ichiro at the plate, and the decrease in SO we'll get going from Estrada to Kendall will at least even it out.
I'm not going to throw a parade over it, but Cameron is the best realistic addition we could have made through the free agency.
PS - How many teams can say they have someone hitting 20+ homeruns a year in the #7 spot? Our lineup is going to be killer.
by stevie ray Braun on Jan 11, 2008 6:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
is $6M really reasonable?
Are you telling me we couldn't have gotten similar production from Gross/Dillion/Gwynn.
I guess it isn't my money - but geesh.
On the other hand. It is clear that it is win now for the Crew
by romagna72 on Jan 11, 2008 7:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
One thing everyone needs to remember
This move is a good stop gap it fill the remaining holes in the starting line up and as has been stated if La Porta is ready next season Cameron is gone with a nice 750K parting gift thanks for playing drive home safely.
But it was the pen that has failed us the last two season if the pen holes up we have nothing to worry about.
I think ;)
by WSB Chris on Jan 11, 2008 7:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Void of real calculations
+1 win for full season of Gallardo (conservative)
+3 wins for Cameron (outfield) and Kendall (calling) signing, defense improvement
+2-3 wins for additional bullpen
+2 wins for full season of Braun, Hart, & general hitter maturation
So, if the starting pitchers were to stand pat (I don't want to count on Sheets making 75% of his starts), this is a good improvement. Clearly the offense couldn't be improved that much, the defense has been improved, and the bullpen is much improved.
Arbitrary numbers by me, yay!
by nmc on Jan 11, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
by cappad0nna on Jan 11, 2008 8:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gagne, Mota, and Mike Cameron
The past tells me to trust Melvin, but I said the same thing when I was very ambivalent about the Linebrink for Inman, Thatcher, and the other guy deal. If they have good seasons and propel us to the playoffs, I'll be happily surprised. But I'm not optimistic.
I don't think I can boo Bonds for steroid use anymore, though. Thank goodness I can still boo him for being such an a**hole (if he plays, that is).
by alkaseitzer on Jan 12, 2008 1:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
future
by msoebrewcrewfan on Jan 13, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would guess
by TheJay on Jan 13, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hall
Hall, Vargas, and a prospect for Ethier and move Braun back to 3B? Hall, Vargas, and a prospect for Andy LaRoche and keep Braun in LF?
I don't know...but I know that Hall has vocally said he's not happy.
by jimmyb1799 on Jan 13, 2008 12:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Please
We're inclined to think that Hall would think all his effort last year, including a poor offensive showing, were for naught, but until he says something ... well, then stop repeating that he's not happy about the move. He hasn't said anything!
by nmc on Jan 13, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The quotes from Hall in Haudricourt's story
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 13, 2008 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some more on the Cameron signing
Here are the complete details of Cameron's contract:
$1.25 million signing bonus plus $5 million salary in 2008. Incentive bonuses: $175,000 for 325 plate appearances and 375 PAs. $200,000 for 425 PAs and 475 PAs. Club option for 2009 for $10 million with $750,000 buyout. Incentive bonuses: $175,000 for 425 PAs and 475 PAs; $200,000 for 525 PAs and 575 PAs. Limited no trade.
The physical required to complete the signing is tomorrow.
by roguejim on Jan 13, 2008 8:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
TH has published some of Cameron's numbers
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 13, 2008 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Anderson sent down
Wait, not Brian Anderson. Drew Anderson, so say the JS Blogs.
by roguejim on Jan 15, 2008 3:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cameron...
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/all-time-teams-the-all-juiced-team/
by ET90210 on Jan 17, 2008 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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