"I want to play for Milwaukee!"

by roguejim on Jan 4, 2008 5:56 PM CST in Milwaukee Brewers News

Don't hear that too often, eh? Yet, Luis Gonzalez wants to play for your 2008 Cream City Crushers, so sayeth the JS Blogs.

"Luis thinks he'd be a perfect fit in Milwaukee," said agent Terry Bross. "He knows they're looking for a left-handed bat in left field and could benefit from his veteran experience as well."

[snip]

Playing in 139 games for the Dodgers last season, Gonzalez batted .278 with 15 homers and 68 RBI. Bross pointed to the fact that Gonzalez has a 1-1 ratio of walks and strikeouts (1,114 walks, 1,175 strikeouts) and a career .369 on-base percentage.

Gonzalez made $7.35 million with Los Angeles last year but Bross said his client isn't looking to break the bank in '08. He could probably be had with an incentive-laden that would reward him for having a good year.

He's also one of the most well-respected and well-liked players out there. His stats are here. He's not a long-term option (he's 40), but it's nice that although he hits lefties better, he's a reasonable option against RHP as well. That's one less thing for Ned to screw up.

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Isn't he a defensive liability?

Not that most 40-year-olds aren't, but at what point do you say you'd like the left side of the defense to make some plays? Gonzalez doesn't even hit like a corner outfielder anymore.

I do like that the part of the blog you quoted mentions his batting average last season and then says his agent was more concerned with on base percentage.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 4, 2008 6:14 PM CST reply actions

Nonsense!

Well, maybe so:

Gonzalez and Lofton are both left-handed hitters who get on base, so they fit the bill in that regard in terms of what Melvin has said he is seeking. The Brewers might be worried about the age of both players as well as their declining defensive skills (both have below-average throwing arms) but apparently they are still players under consideration.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 4, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions

Agent

Bross sounds like one of the witty platoon names you guys like to come up with that would be for one of Braun and Gross. Just sayin.

by thekid2point0 on Jan 4, 2008 7:07 PM CST reply actions

Hmmm

I always considered Gonzales to be a better version of Jenkins in the past, maybe not so now. Right now I think he's withered version of Jenkins who doesn't continuously swing at pitches low and inside.

Points:
Veteran presence
Playoff experience
Takes pitches, gets on base

Counterpoints:
Old (declining stats)
Limp-wristed nancy boy (possible defensive liability)
Yost will play him every day
Withered version of Jenkins

I think the Brewers should only commit to a year ($4 mil?), incentive-laden contract for him if they choose to go that route. His presence would mean eliminating Gross or Gwynn from the picture, hurting the Brewers outfield flexibility.

Gonzoles stats
Jenkins stats

A layman would say they had very similar seasons. I'd still prefer Gonzales and his googily eyes.

by nmc on Jan 4, 2008 7:57 PM CST reply actions

beat me to it

He is an older version of Jenkins - with less power but a better batting eye.

Go Brewers!

by romagna72 on Jan 4, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions

Not so

Jenkins is no better than a platoon player --- though a solid platoon player, and one who plays a great left field. But Jinxie against a LHP is a near certain out, and probably a strikeout to boot.

I can't speak to Gonzo's defense --- I assume worse than Jinxie's, but would have guessed average D for leftfield. But the fact that he is a credible --- if short-term --- option in left against LHP and RHP makes him an apple to Jenkins' orange (or vice versa).

Plus, he's good at what we'd need him for (getting on base) and bad at what we don't (power). We don't need 25-30 home runs --- we just need someone who will trot home ahead of Prince's home runs. And who cares if he's old --- that's what LaPorta is for.

Given the lack of decent full-time (i.e., Yost-proof) options for left field, this isn't a bad one. He'e not as fast as Lofton, but hits both lefties and righties better. Plus, now that Jake Taylor is gone, we need someone to fill the role of the aging veteran nice guy for the 40+ year old female Brewers fans.

No an exciting option, but a decent one.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 4, 2008 9:51 PM CST up reply actions

"Limp-wristed nancy boy."

Ha!!!

I got the Worst Christmas Gift ever!

by Jamie in LA on Jan 4, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions

Compare him to a mystery player

OK here is an interesting comparison

Luis Gonzalez 464 AB 15 HR 68 RBI 793 OPS
Mystery Player 420 AB 21 HR 64 RBI 790 OPS

Now granted Luis will probably sign for less than mystery player but this isn't much to get impressed over.

And who is the mystery player? We know him well - take a guess!

Go Brewers!

by romagna72 on Jan 4, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions

Luis' arm is really really bad.

I doubt this would be an upgrade, but if we sign him I hope I am wrong.

by Braunstalker on Jan 4, 2008 9:55 PM CST reply actions

And. . .

Combine his spaghetti arm with the fact that he plays fly balls on a bounce, and you get a bad fit for this team.
The defense needs to be upgraded. Gonzo da loser is not the answer.

Bob Gibson threw 9 pitches: "two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a change-up, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman."

by tvnick5 on Jan 5, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

Grumpy

Gonzo was grumpy in his last year in Arizona and in his one year in Los Angeles. He didn't take kindly to losing playing time to younger players in both locations and became a bit of a clubhouse cancer down the stretch.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Jan 5, 2008 12:17 AM CST reply actions

L. Gonzalez is alright I suppose

Assuming he takes a reasonable salary cut to fit his declining skill, but it still seems like it should be a last resort signing to me. We can get someone better with the excess of pitchers we have to trade, and even elderly-free-agent-wise I would rather have Lofton.

2008: The Year of #8

by stevie ray Braun on Jan 5, 2008 3:51 AM CST reply actions

True enough

We should be able to do better in a trade, and Lofton's speed is appealing.

In Gonzo's favor, though, is that he's a decent fill-in against LHP and RHP. I don't think there's any other player we kicked around who isn't more than just half of a platoon (and thus Ned-Proof) --- a list that certainly includes Lofton. (And that might be OK too, given our plethora of castoff and misfit outfielders.)

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 5, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions

I don't know.

Can't we get something approaching a .793 OPS out of the guys we have on hand? Lofton might be more expensive than Gonzo at this point, but I'd prefer him in left if we're really going to add a 40yr old OF. Their arms might be comparable, but Lofton has better speed and better range in the field. Gonzo's splits against LHP/RHP might be better than Lofton's, but he's not good enough to actually Ned-proof LF. Find a guy like Braun or Fielder, and you Ned-proof those positions. A guy like Corey Hart wasn't enough to Ned-proof RF in '07, and I don't think we're going to be lucky enough to find Hart's equivalent to play LF unless those TGJr. fans turn out to be right.

My guess (hope?) is that we'll either end up playing with the guys we have on hand or Melvin will pull a deal in February.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 5, 2008 9:14 AM CST reply actions

Say what you will about Yost

But it's not like he started Mench over Jenkins against righties last year. Saying we need to avoid a platoon because Yost can't figure who should start on each day is, frankly, dumb. I'm sure he could figure out when Gross and Dillon should be starting. In-game platoon management is a different story, but the chances it comes back to bite you in the long run are pretty low since it's really an issue about, what, once a month?

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 5, 2008 10:22 AM CST reply actions

Well-lll...

Mench's ABs last year were nearly a 50/50 split last season against LHP and RHP, despite a resounding .564 OPS against right-handers. I'm sure many of them came with Jinxie in right field.

Throw in Jinxie's 65 ABs against lefites (although at a healthier, if Estrada-esque, .697 OPS), and that's 200 less-than-ideal matchups.

Frankly, I trust Ned to play the correct matchups for about a week. After that, I think the "hot hand" effect takes over.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 5, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

Mench

Mench started when Hart was less than 100% at the beginning of the year so I'd guess a number of his appearances against righties came from then. Also, Gwynn and Gross started taking away his playing time in right field, so you can't say he was a regular option against righthanders out there.

Also, if you pull Jenkins against a lefty in, say, the sixth or seventh inning, what do you do for defense and should Mench/whoever face a righty reliever later in the game? You're not going to be able to avoid every unfavorable matchup unless you get a 30-man roster.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 5, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

In terms of starts

On the entire season, Jenkins started against lefties three times. Mench started against righties an admittedly disturbing 14 times, nine of which took place before May 11. Three more were starts in right in late July when Hall was coming back from injury and Hart/Gwynn were in center. The final two were in early August when Hart was in center field, so why Hall or Gross couldn't play I'm not sure.

I guess I don't see the big deal about 200 or so unfavorable matchups. That's what, thirty percent of a season from one position, and less when you look at it as an amalgam of your third and fourth outfielder. If Mench was a regular starter displacing Hart and/or Hall, it'd be more worrisome but he and Jenkins combined for 17 unfavorable starts in two different positions on the field. Picking the "wrong" starter less than five percent of the time (17 out of 384) doesn't really seem like a hot hand sort of thing to me, especially when compared to sticking Dillon or Graffanino in the outfield. What is the consensus on those moves, anyway? Dumb shots in the dark or an attempt to avoid playing the inept-against-righties Mench? I don't know but, like I said, it doesn't seem worth it to agonize over such a relatively little number of matchups throughout the season and it seems pointless to declare we need to spend on a "stable" left fielder to avoid them. Even the "we can't get a long-term solution in left because we've got a guy who hasn't played above A ball coming through the pipeline" argument seems more logical.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 5, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

nice use of amalgum

I saw the overcrowded marketplase that is the brewers blogs and said, "Me Too!" www.chubberlang.blogspot.com

by hyattff2003 on Jan 5, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions

Well then

Look who woke up on the wrong side of Tom Haudricourt.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 6, 2008 3:08 AM CST up reply actions

Ew!

Weird, but not weird.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 6, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions

Hart's injury was over-played

I could go through the old FNY posts to find it, but Yost was very clear early in the season that he wanted Jenkins, Mench and Hart to each get around 400 ABs in some sort of voodoo meta-platoon. It clearly didn't work, and one of the reasons is that he ended up starting Mench in RF against RHP. If it weren't for Hart's injury, that joke may have ended sooner, but it's not the case that Yost was forced to play Mench due to injury.

And Yost also famously failed to pinch hit for Mench with Jenkins because "Mench was in the game."

Yost deserves all the abuse that is heaped on him. He is not a stupid man, but he is a stubborn and arrogant man, and that leads him to make stupid decisions.

And Luis Gonzalez is 3 weeks away from completing his metamorphosis into beef jerky. If that's all the Brewers have left to consider, they may as well shut it down for 2008.

by Marty McSuperFly on Jan 6, 2008 7:01 AM CST up reply actions

Ha! Beef Jerky!

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 6, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions

If it clearly didn't work...

...and he stopped playing Mench, isn't that a positive thing? To keep saying this "hot hand" BS as if Yost is continuing to start the wrong guy regularly is misleading. I'm not saying Yost is a good manager and I don't like him either, but to act like we have to avoid a platoon because he's so dumb as to not start the right guys of the platoon against lefties or righties is just wrong.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 6, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions

Huh?

Did you watch the entire season? The "hot hand" metamorphosed into Gabe Gross in center field, and Joltin' Joe Dillon in left. I think I saw Bill Hall's picture on some milk cartons in August.

It's going to be tough to sugarcoat Yost's foolishness, when we have such abundant and continuing evidence.

by Marty McSuperFly on Jan 7, 2008 6:23 AM CST up reply actions

Have to agree to disagree, I guess

I don't know how Gabe Gross' three starts and five total games in center field really matter (what's next, complaining about Yost regularly starting Damian Miller at first base?), but I do concede your point about Joe Dillon in left. It'd be more damning if Bill Hall was hitting like even an average center fielder when he was MIA in center field, but I can see the objection there, too.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 7, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions

ooh! ooh!

I will let this go, too, since there's going to be a whole 'nuther season of this, and I actually document it as it happens so I don't have to rehash it later.

Corey Hart started 15 games at CF from 8/26 through 9/20. Gabe Gross started in RF in 14 of those games. Bill Hall was effectively benched in favor of Gabe Gross for a month, with no official reason given. I have seen some normally-well-informed types say that he challenged Yost's managing, and since Yost is an arrogant, vindictive toad, I tend to believe it. If he had other reasons, I still think it's stupid to bench Hall in favor of Gross.

by Marty McSuperFly on Jan 7, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions

Hey wait a minute,

i like Beefy Jerky! Its tough and chewy and grizzled sort of like one of Yost's favorite veterans!

by 80badger on Jan 7, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions

Wait

Which one of our veterans is chewy? And can he play defense?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 7, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions

Gonzalez

...I've heard him rumored to have used steroids at some point. He hit 57 homers one year and didn't get close to that any other year.

by Jordan M on Jan 5, 2008 8:17 PM CST reply actions

Kinda like Hack Wilson

Guy hits 56 one year, never gets above 40 otherwise. I think there's enough one-season "wonders" in baseball history that steroids doesn't have to be cited every single time.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 5, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions

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