Retaining CC, Acquiring Peavy?
by BrewerBlue87 on Oct 20, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
82 comments
It has been said that Melvin will now turn his attention to offering CC a new contract now that he himself will be staying in Milwaukee. Im not sure of our chances, 25%, optimistically speaking, but what are your opinions on it? 4 yrs / 100 mil get it done? Or is he gonna be a dodger? What yall think about all of this?
Another hot name around baseball these days is Jake Peavy. He has named several teams that he would accept a trade to. Milwaukee was not one of them, even though 3 other teams in our division were. Seems like Milwaukee and the Padres would be good trade partners. Maybe a JJ Hardy, Jeremy Jeffress, and TGJ get it done. Is there any chance that Peavy would include Milwaukee as a city that he would waive his no-trade clause to go to?
Now its time for me to really start dreaming. CC and Peavy are my two favorite pitchers in the game. How bout we resign CC for 4yrs/100mil and trade hardy, jeffress, and TGJ for Peavy and have a rotation of ;
CC, Peavy, Gallardo, Bush, Parra
Alright, maybe thats a little far-fetched but what do you all think about the brewers pitching situation next year?
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pitching
if we can get one of those 2 guys ill be happy
by BenSheets15 on Oct 20, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trading Jeffress?
Just…no, seriously. It’s not like we have a ton of arms in our system. I’d just hate to give away our top power bat, our best outfielding prospect, and best arm within a year span. It just sounds like a farm system fire sale. Though it’d be intriguing having those two in the rotation, you can never deplete your system like that.
As for next season, I’m hoping we do lock up CC. If not, I’d say Sheeter will actually stay put. Personally, Sheets’ price is down a lot more due to that injury, and could even be intrigued to stay for less, than he’d get elsewhere, possibly. It’d be a risk, always is with glass pitchers like Sheets, but when he’s on he’s one of the best. So if I had to go with a 5 man rotation for next season, I’d go with this:
1. CC
2. Sheets
3. Gallardo
4. Parra
5. Bush
Again, the rotation is a tricky one to figure. Kind of want the WS to be a sweep so we can get these pieces in motion already. Not just the pitching situation but who we bring in and how this team will morph. We’re in for a fun offseason :)
by Lavender on Oct 20, 2008 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Best OF prospect?
A 25 year old OF with a .659 in AAA is never a top OF prospect, no matter how thin you are at that position. Throwing TGJ in any trade would be done as a favor to him since he has no chance to play for the Brewers and would be of no actual value to the Padres other than a stop gap until they find an everyday CF.
I don’t think Jeffress is by any means untouchable. He has potential, but if he can help net one of the best pitchers in baseball, I’m all for it. With all the picks in the 2008 draft and the possible compensation picks for CC and Sheets, I think system depth will be fine and Jack Z will have plenty of chances to find pitching talent.
by Supertramp on Oct 20, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to Brantely
Tony Gywnn Jr is a name more than a hitter. I’d toss him to San Diego for a vending machine if they want him so badly.
by Lavender on Oct 20, 2008 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah...
Sorry for the mistake, though I think LaPorta was the Brewers best power hitter as well as the best OF. I guess it can be more of a comment on the original post mentioning TGJ as the third player (and thus, having some value) in a Peavy deal. Like you said, you might as well put “vending machine” in there instead and it means the same thing.
by Supertramp on Oct 20, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I always saw LaPorta, in the same way a few see Alcides for JJ, but for Prince at first base. I just don’t think Matt is entirely what you’d call an outfielder, but could develop into a great fielding first basemen to complement the bat(if he was gifted what so ever in the outfield).
Still, not sure where any of this leads to or where we’re headed. Depends on their first move toward the roster really. Need the WS to end and end FAST ;)
by Lavender on Oct 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you really want CC?
he is going to be really really expensive, and and he was heavily abused.
"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"
by justin007000 on Oct 20, 2008 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He was abused
But we’ve all promised that it was a one time thing… We won’t lose our anger again… We love our CC
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 20, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We want CC
Will give our best offer, but it won’t be good enough, and we are fine with that… like Cordero, I was fine not getting him, but we could seriously hurt our chances of contending if we put up what it may take to get him… I would say it will take 6 years $156 million would be what it will take atleast as the Yankees will outbid everyone to get him… maybe the Brewers offer fewer years with about $25-6 million a year, but I don’t think he will take it if he has $50 million more on the table from another team. I love the guy and think no matter what happens, he will be a hero in Milwaukee for some time.
Peavy is very interesting on the other hand, only a tad more expensive than Suppan and is a legit ace with a CY Young and leading the league in ERA a couple of years. I would trade Jeffress as he only is in AA, sure he is our only pitching prospect at the time, but there is a maybe 60% chance he makes it to the show, and then maybe only a 20% chance he is a good pitcher and perhaps 5% chance he is at the level of Peavy. He is just a lottery ticket, when the person we are trading for is a proven winner. It is not just a rental, like CC was, but a contract to go with it. We gave up LaPorta for half a year of a Cy Young pitcher, I am sure we would give up Jeffress for three or four years of a CY Young pitcher plus more.
Tony Gwynn has no future with the team as an every day starter it seems and would be nice to trade him to give him a shot with another organization.
Hardy would be hard to see him go, but we are talking about one of the best pitchers in the game… the Brewers should put forward the best package they can offer… if they can do it without Hardy I would like that since I dont think Escobar show he can hit in the majors… any other ideas for potential players the Padres would want? Weeks would be great, but don’t think they would want him. Same with Hall, but he also is overpaid and not that great.
What if instead we threw in another pitcher like McClung… I like him, but I think we could recover better without him than JJ. Don’t think that would be enough to get it done.
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Oct 20, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely don't trade Hardy
But I wouldn’t want to lose McClung either. I think he’s developing pretty well. He’s saved our butts a few time this season, and I’d hate to see him go. If we do lose him, we’d need a new Klingon too…
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 20, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think people realize how good Peavy is
I’ts going to take more than mcclung, TGJ, and Jeffress to get that deal done.
Peavy is only a bit worse than CC, and at half the contract.
I understand why a lot of fans wouldn’t want to make the trade, but I would love it.
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2008 4:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"... at half the contract..."
Maybe (though some disagree). But even if that is true the savings realized by trading for Peavy instead of signing CC (if we’re living in a world where either is really possible) would be far less than the cost of replacing the production of Hardy, Jeffress and others in the lineup over the next several years. In my opinion, paying CC twice what Peavy is going to make and then either keeping Hardy et al or packaging them for something else makes a lot more sense both from a cost-benefit analysis and the perspective of making the team better.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 21, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"..Paying CC twice what Peavy is going to make.."
I suppose that would be ideal. But if (when?) CC denies our offer, our biggest hole will be at the top of the rotation. Burnett’s in for a huge, much-deserved payday, so that leaves us with guys like Derek Lowe who will earn Peavy-like contracts without Peavy-like results.
The Braves will probably win the Peavy auction, but it’s definitely an option that needs to be given some serious consideration by management.
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Hardy
No no no no no. I would trade Escobar before I traded Hardy. Rickie Weeks was a big time prospect just like Escobar, and does anyone even want him on the team anymore? Hardy hs proven himself, Escobar hasn’t. DO NOT TRADE HARDY- move him to 3B if you’re dead set on Escobar (which I know everyone is).
As far as CC goes, the only way we will get him is by him taking a discount. Brewers can’t match Yankee money. One would hope 4 yrs/100 mil would be enough of a discount.
by brewersbitch on Oct 20, 2008 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TNSTAAPP, etc.
We would be trading 6 years of Jeffress, probably starting 2010 or later, which might be worth nothing if he gets injured or becomes a Todd Van Poppel or something, for 5 years of Peavy, who is much more of a known quantity, and would help us immediately. I’m not worried about trading Jeffress at all.
Peavy is going to be much cheaper than CC at (about $16mil/year), and can probably be traded for a nice catch is things don’t work out. This also might buy us a 2-3 year window to restock the farm through drafts and international scouting.
I want Rickie on the team because he takes pitches when pretty much no one else on the team does. He’s still very young, and if he finally hits over .260, his OBP will reach .380, and that’s great. He can hit 20 HR. I don’t like the comparison to Escobar at all — they are different players. Rickie is a guy whose value is based on above average power for a 2B and a solid plate approach — everyone knew he would never be great on D. Escobar is a slap hitter with no patience but people think he’s the next Ozzie Smith w/ the glove. At SS, that’s valuable. I’d be willing to part with Rickie or Alcides in a trade for Peavy, but probably not both. The same goes for JJ. He’s a solid player for sure, and I wouldn’t want to get rid of him if Rickie or Escobar get moved, but he’s not untouchable.
That said, CC at 4yr/$100mil might be the best deal. I’d do that in a heartbeat, and so would most Brewer fans, I imagine.
Gwynn is not a prospect. Period. IMO, he never was.
I’m not opposed to trading Gamel, either. I’m not sure why everyone is so sold on a guy who put up half a season of great numbers in AA as a 23 year old. He has never been young for his level, and he never posted an OPS above .872 until the first half of 2008. There are some good signs (he seems to be lowering K% and raising BB% consistently, e.g.), but he doesn’t really have a position, especially with Braun cemented in LF (probably) for the next 6 seasons. In regards to 1B, I’d rather go year-to-year with Prince until his time is up, because I think that gives us the greatest chance to win now without really hurting us. We’ll get draft picks when he leaves, and by then he’ll be starting his decline. I mean, I’d trade Prince for Tim Lincecum, but that’s about it. Or, if we can’t sign CC or get Peavy and decide to do a quick rebuild, I’d trade Prince for a lot of near ready talent (probably pitching) so that we can make another run in like 2010-11 before YoGa’s time is up.
by baumann on Oct 20, 2008 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"if things don't work out"
That would probably mean that he hasn’t been healthy or is performing outside Petco like he has performed outside Petco. If the former, the Brewers would have to eat contract dollars. But Peavy makes the discussion moot with his agent’s comments.
It’s interesting you imagine that Rickie’s batting average is going to climb, but Gwynn’s won’t and he never had a chance to do it. I’d also say that your evaluation that Escobar is a slap hitter and has “no patience” is debatable. There are also a lot of people outside the Brewers fanbase who view Gamel as an exceptional hitter.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the article you link to...
“The Padres plan to announce later this month that they have hired hitting coach Jim Lefebvre and bench coach Ted Simmons.”
by John Brew on Oct 21, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s true that i’ve never seen Escobar play, but he’s probably going to have an ISO of under .100 and walk less than 6% of the time. he did hit a decent number of 2B+3B this year, and a player so young can always increase a walk rate. but another thing that makes me worry is that for a player who relies so much on AVG, his BABIP has been well above league average during his most productive times, and he doesn’t really have the LD% to support that. he hits a lot of ground balls, and at the major league level, a lot more of those will get gobbled up. i’m no expert on anything. i look at a few things and try to make sense of them. this is my meager ‘working theory’.
also, i admit to being a Rickie Weeks apologist, and i know it’s not really warranted to think that Rickie’s average will climb. but i think the difference between him and Gwynn is that if Rickie hits .270, he becomes a very good offensive player because he already works the count, draws walks, and has shown above average power. if Gwynn hits .270, his line will still probably look like .270/.310/.310, and that’s not a good player, offensively speaking. thus, i’m a lot more willing to give Rickie one more chance to break out. (this is not to mention that these guys are the same age, and Rickie’s already been useful if not good for several years, while Gwynn has done nothing of the sort.)
also, i like Gamel a lot. i’m excited to see what he does this year. i’m just saying that we can’t overvalue one half of a season, especially if it means we acquire a guy with a super ML track record (Peavy). i love Andy LaRoche, e.g., but he may never pan out; just a few years ago, Andy Marte was a top ten prospect. is Gamel that special that in two years we can’t have a similar player waiting in the wings? we don’t want to just take that for granted, but given our staff, i think it’s pretty possible.
by baumann on Oct 21, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What did Money say about Escobar, he’s an excellent contact hitter or something like that. I remember Jeff making a comment about how he went a month without popping up the ball once. I’d have to say that conclusions aren’t easy to draw about Escobar’s hitting.
I realize Weeks is an around average 2nd baseman defensively with pop, but it also seems like he still has trouble with double plays and feels the pressure at least defensively. Gwynn may be manifestly unpopular, but I’d say he still has a chance to be with the club next spring. I’d say if Melvin knew he would hit .275/.350 he’d be a lock, perhaps as a starter. He can’t see the future and his future performance is a big “if” though. I’d guess evaluations from organization coaches and performance in ST will decide.
I’d say Peavy is an enormous risk – either that he doesn’t stay healthy or puts up numbers like his away numbers in his career and Gamel isn’t because there isn’t much money invested. I don’t think great hitting leftys are all that easy to come up with either.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gwynn's out of options
He’ll have to be on the roster next season unless they get rid of him. If they don’t want him on the roster, I think there are teams that would pick him up on waivers, especially in the AL where you don’t need bench players to hit as much – he’d be a good pinch runner/defensive replacement guy to fill out a roster. I think it’s more likely that even if Gwynn does hit .275, his OBP would be closer to .330 than .350 – kind of like Jason Kendall last year but more accepted because he’s faster and his batting average would be 30 points higher.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 21, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds about right
He’ll either be gone in which case the variations of “he’s a bum” will dwindle severely, or he’ll be on the team in which case they’ll go up.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point about risk
i guess Gamel will cost next to nothing through 2011/12, so that’s good. it’s funny how i’m already in the mindset of worrying far less about things like that. one season and i’m spoiled. geez.
Pete, what do you think about CC?
by baumann on Oct 21, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's big and he's good
In my non-expert opinion, he’s much less likely to go lame.
I wonder if he would take a shorter contract.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm missing something...
… but when has Weeks shown above average power in the majors? I know his power has been talked about a great deal (like virtually every other aspect of his game that has yet to actually appear in real life), but it hasn’t materialized on the field.
At this rate we’ll be talking about giving Rickie “one more chance to break out” when he’s 40.
In case I haven’t been clear, f*** Rickie Weeks and the horse he rode in on.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 21, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, now that I got that out of my system, let me clarify...
… the rational side of my brain knows that Rickie is ok at 2nd and for the price, we’re probably better off keeping him than paying far more for someone who probably won’t be much if any better. I’m not advocating trading him (or anyone else) for Peavy, unless there is a serious intent to put Hardy and Escobar in the same infield and maximize Hardy’s relative production by leaving him at short.
But for God’s sake, stop suggesting and hoping that he’s going to “break out.” If he does, great, but I don’t think there’s any rational hope for that anymore. He’s got a history of putting up a decent OBP, particularly for considering his BA. But he hasn’t done anything to indicate he’s going to bat .270 or higher for a full season, which minimizes his offensive value to being a below average leadoff guy or an above average #7 or 8 hitter. Defensively, he’s fine if not spectacular, with a tendency to cough up the occasional easy play and make the occasional “did you see that” stop on the outfield grass.
That’s what he is, and that’s all he’s ever going to be. If you don’t like people ripping on Weeks for failing to live up to the hype, then stop hyping him and stop suggesting he might yet “break out.” Then maybe your guy can settle into the nice long, slightly mediocre MLB career he’s so obviously destined for.
PS: The irrational part of my brain will never, ever, ever forgive Weeks for dropping that throw at first. I don’t give a damn if that doesn’t make any sense to you or anyone else.
PPS: OK, “never, ever, ever” is a stretch. If he hits a couple of walkoffs in the playoffs or the Series in the next few years, I’ll forgive. But I won’t forget.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 21, 2008 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be worse though.
I’ve never booed Weeks. And at this point, I’d boo Hall for the technique he used in saving a drowning orphan.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 21, 2008 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he flailed out his arms and missed the orphan
but was able to pick up 25 million on the way out of the lake.
I untuck my shirt!
by Michael M on Oct 21, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd boo him for not saving the parents, too.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 21, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hi TCSC.
I am irrational. Sorry. Please don’t hate me. I really just like the way Rickie’s face looks.
by baumann on Oct 21, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 22, 2008 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that double play muff in the CC game when Chicago came to town was huge
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the HRs against
The Cardinals and Cubs were also huge
by Supertramp on Oct 21, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun could play Right or potentially even in Center
by HRF on Oct 21, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i personally think it would be more logical
…for them to re-train the top minor league prospect for the outfield position we are the most weak in (right), than to shift around Braun, who is fitting both the defensive and offensive mold of a left fielder.
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 21, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got a strong arm, yes, but he’s also fast. Quick and fast. Let him run down some more in right. He’ll be better there than Gamel will be.
by HRF on Oct 21, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick and fast
and speedy
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Oct 23, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
There’s no point changing where he is if I already have my season tickets in left field doing well there.
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 21, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice
My roomate and I sat 7th row (basically first row because it’s right on the ledge) in left for CC’s first start in Milwaukee. When Braun made the last out of an inning i leaned over the rail and shouted, “Ryan,” so he threw us the ball. I want Season Tickets there next year!
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jealous!
I don’t really have season tickets…
But if anyone wants to know, Christmas is December 25, my birthday is April 26, and there’s always time for a late anniversary present! :)
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 21, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, wait, wait
Christmas is the 25th now? When did that happen?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 21, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't get the memo?
January 7th still works, as long as you give small presents in December :-P
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 22, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what is Peavy's contract, officially?
And I just hope the Cubs don’t trade for him. Zambrano, Peavy, Harden? Yikes.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 20, 2008 6:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't know
it not quite as fearsome as Prior, Wood and Zambrano…
by keephopealive on Oct 20, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 years plus club option
which would probably either turn into a player option or become guaranteed in exchange for waiving the no-trade clause. the option year is $22mil.
by baumann on Oct 20, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
09:$8M 10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13: $22M club option ($4M buyout)
-Cot’s
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lonestarball has a thread with lots of tidbits of info
Here is a link to a discussion of his pitching mechanics. I say no way in hell the Brewers take a chance on a really large contract for him. His performance outside of Petco don’t seem awe inspiring either. For all those who are willing to toss away Parra, Gamel, Hardy and/or Escobar, what should the team do if Peavy is a 4.3 ERA or so pitcher or isn’t healthy.
by ol Pete on Oct 20, 2008 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That article is good and all, but it appears he’s afraid of just about every pitcher. He’s even concerned about Tim Lincecum, which hasn’t shown any health concern issues at all.
by SgtClueLs on Oct 21, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy Makes Sense
CC would be great but TOO expensive.
Peavy and Gerut
FOR
Hardy, Weeks, Bush, Gwynn and Salome
We give up an All-Star, A GM killer, A solid pitcher, a 5th OF and a catcher who will never have a higher pre-majors value.
We get a Cy Young winner for 4 years and a CF showing his potential (finally).
by Bambisbomberslive on Oct 20, 2008 10:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gagne won the Cy Young
But nobody talked about it much this year and nobody would talk about Peavy’s if his elbow goes bad or his pitching outside Petco stays the same.
I think I’d rather see Randy Johnson for a year.
by ol Pete on Oct 20, 2008 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that a fair comparison?
That was 5 years ago, with a 2 year injury between then and now.
The AL winner of the Cy Young that same year was Roy Halladay. He turned out OK.
Peavy won the Cy Young last year, the same year as CC Sabathia.
by tcyoung on Oct 21, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure. He liked the idea of a Cy Young winner. Heck Johnson has a number of them. Gagne isn’t old either. In other words, the Cy Young isn’t a guarantee of anything.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a guarantee..
… but it probably is a good indicator of future performance, barring injury… and barring the possibility that the player in question was roided out of his mind when he won it like a certain pitcher whose initials are Eric Gagne.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 22, 2008 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Cy Young
isn’t a very good predictor of his performance outside of Petco. Barring injury is a questionable decision.
And maybe I’m missing something, but was Gagne accused of steroid use? I thought he received HGH and at least the available evidence wouldn’t support the inference that it was heavy use or “out of his mind.”
I’d still rather have Johnson for one year if the idea is to have a Cy Young winner
by ol Pete on Oct 22, 2008 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you're right about that.
It was HGH rather than steroids. My mistake. I don’t believe for a second that it was isolated use, not that it really matters. I’m not advocating trading anyone for Peavy. Just sniping.
We have 5 better starters on the roster right now than Johnson (well, 4 at least) than Johnson, who’ll probably hurt his back the first time he puts on his uniform next year.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 22, 2008 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HGH
I had always assumed Gagne used HGH to help him when he was injured. Turns out, he was buying it in 2004 and before. He didn’t get injured until the 2005 season, so he was using it to recover between closing oppurtunities. How heavy he used it is unknown, though.
by tcyoung on Oct 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This could be an interesting offseason...
If the Cubs acquire Peavy, they have, arguably one of the best pitching staffs in baseball and likewise for the Brewers.
I would absolutely hate having to face C.C. (If you guys can retain him), then go after Peavy.
I think that C.C. is going to sign elsewhere…. not because, as a Cubs fan, I hope it. It’s just that a place like NY with the money and a manager at this point might be appealing.
by EJThunder on Oct 21, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But what do the Cubs have to offer the Padres in return for Peavey? I think that’s the bigger question.
by SgtClueLs on Oct 21, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say they'd have to give up several players out of this group:
Marmol, Marshall, Pie, Samarzija, and more (I confess I don’t know much about Cubs prospects).
That said, I’m not really sure the Cubs would ever give up so much for him. Especially if they resign Dempster, as that gives them three all-star pitchers in Zambrano, Harden, Dempster. There’s not really any need to make a big trade, as their roster will stay pretty much intact from last year when they had the best record in the NL.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 21, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's possible the Cubs acquire Peavy....
it’s just a matter of how many people we want to ship out in order to get him.
I’m a little mixed. But it’s not like whoever gets him will only have him for a year or so. They’ll have him for 3-4 years if I’m not mistaken.
by EJThunder on Oct 21, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contract was discussed above, it
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 21, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...is four to five years. Stupid 'enter' key.
Anyway, I really don’t see the cubs as making a trade for Peavy. They already have a very good rotation. They don’t have the prospects and so would have to trade several young major league players, creating holes in the field. I don’t think that, after the Cubs were one of the best teams in the league, they are going to start changing so much around. They have pretty much their entire team back intact and it is far from a necessity to go out and trade for another pitcher.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 21, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al at evil BCB
thought that they could trade DP Lee for Matt Cain and a Giants reliever. I think even Sabean would laugh at that one.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 21, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that.
He than wanted to turn around Cain for, I believe, Ricky Nolasco of the Marlins.
Hehe.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 21, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Never go full...."
Sorry, can’t bring myself to finish that sentence.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 21, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh jihad
It was Al himself who made that suggestion. Mui loco.
Remarkably he thought he would flip him for Nolasco. There were a bunch of posters with common sense who questioned it.
If Nolasco were available, I’d love for the Brewers to go after him, especially since the Marlins wouldn’t want any established players. I looked at the Marlins site and the counterpart to Adam McCalvy thought that Scott Miller might be shopped but not Nolasco.
by ol Pete on Oct 21, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Olsen useless fact
He’s one of only five active pitchers to have started 100 or more games without completing one along the way. He went 8 2/3 innings against the Brewers in May this year but was pulled with a 3-0 lead and the bases loaded.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 21, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And it looks like he's looking for a full no trade clause...
and his big option being picked up / the cost of a buyout to increase.
by EJThunder on Oct 21, 2008 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let’s get down to important matters: When will Manny Parra stop walking batters?
by HRF on Oct 22, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And more importantly, when will he release another "how to" video?
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 22, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually changed the way i rock my baseball pants from this video
What would the next one be, though? “How to only sort of bend the brim on your hat”?
by tcyoung on Oct 23, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 11.25.2009 at 4:33 PM CST)
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