Thursday's Frosty Mug
So I learned to spell Zduriencik just in time to write about his departure. Some bullet points from around the web this morning:
- Tom H.'s initial announcement.
- Between the Green Pillars says thank you.
- The Brew Town Beat expects Zduriencik's replacement to come from within the organization.
- Fire Ned Coletti Now is excited that the Mariners chose Zduriencik and left Kim Ng with the Dodgers.
- U.S.S. Mariner has the opening post for the Zduriencik Era in Seattle.
- Lookout Landing has already given him a cool new nickname, Dr. Zoinks.
- Zduriencik is one of the primary reasons why Bill James ranked the Brewers 6th in young talent. Hopefully he's not the only reason.
- Here's a picture of Jack Z. It didn't occur to me until yesterday that I'd never seen one.
Today's Sabathia Smorgasbord is an all-you-can-eat awards buffet: Sabathia won the Clutch Performer of the Year award, and also took home Brewers Most Valuable Player, Most Valuable Pitcher and Top Newcomer honors.
Still no word on whether or not the Brewers will exercise their 2009 option on Mike Cameron's contract, but at least one team is watching closely: the Yankees are reportedly interested in making an offer to Cameron if the Brewers set him free.
Beyond the Box Score has Prince Fielder as the 13th best first baseman in baseball in 2008, adding 42 runs with his bat but losing 12 in the field.
So if you've been following my Fall/Winter League updates, you know that Taylor Green left yesterday's game after being hit in the face with a pitch. He has a "minimally displaced" fracture of his nose. What I didn't know until today was that Jeremy Jeffress was injured in the game too, and complained of shoulder discomfort after being shelled in two thirds of an inning of work. Here's a quote from the Official Site's story:
This one caught me off guard: Seamheads has a list of the 25 catchers with the best careers. There are 12 catchers enshrined in Cooperstown, but Seamheads says the seventh best catcher of all time is Ted Simmons, who is not a member of the Hall. Also, they rank Jason Kendall as the 19th greatest catcher of all time.
Two Jake Peavy notes today: MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that as many as 14 teams may already have inquired about him. Negotiations with Atlanta may have hit a snag, as a potential Opening Day Rotation of Jake, Jair (Jurrjens), Jorge (Campillo) and Jo-Jo (Reyes) would bring into play a little-known MLB rule requiring them to re-sign John Smoltz to be the fifth J.
Oh, and Baseball Reference has updated their similarity scores, so now you can see that Rickie Weeks' career through age 25 has most paralleled the career of Denis Menke, who played for the Milwaukee Braves and never really did anything all that special. Also, Weeks' #10 comp is Dale Sveum.
Drink up.
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34 comments
Comments
B-R comps
Menke played in 2 All Star games and finished with a career OPS+ of 103. His #2 comp, Bobby Grich played in 6 ASGs and finished with a career OPS+ of 125.
Just because Weeks was a #2 overall pick doesn’t mean Joe Morgan should be in his list of comparisons.
by Supertramp on Oct 23, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As a full-time player...
Menke played full-time for 10 seasons, had an OPS over 100 in 5, and under 100 in 5. He had one season with a BA over .300 and six under .250. Three seasons with an OBP over .360 and six under .340. He reached 20 HR exactly one time and yes, he happened to make it to two All-Star games, where he played alongside Larry Dierker both times.
I didn’t say “OMG, Rickie Weeks is never going to be anything more than Denis Menke so we should dump him immediately.” I said Menke’s career wasn’t anything all that special. And right now he’s the #1 comp for Rickie Weeks.
I understand that there are a lot of people out there eager to jump into a flaming building to defend Weeks’ reputation. Mentioning him in the Mug is usually a pretty good conversation starter. Please don’t bludgeon me with something just because I compared him to someone.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
by KLSnow on Oct 23, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
Menke does share a hometown with Brad Nelson. Just saying.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
by KLSnow on Oct 23, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Must be something in the water in Algona...
Regarding the original post — You pointed out B-Rs comparison, all I did was point out that the person he was compared to was by all accounts above average for his position (average OPS+ of 105 in his 10 years as a starter). I also made a general comment that I don’t think its a bad thing that Menke is the #1 comp.
I apologize if the tone came off as if I was bludgeoning you, I was attempting to carry on the conversation about Weeks’ past numbers and future expectations that you had started in yesterday’s Mug and carried into today.
by Supertramp on Oct 23, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about having 10 BR comps
Is that you can usually find one to make just about any point you want. In Weeks’ case, #1 is Menke, who had a solid but not really special big league career, #2 is Grich, who was significantly better, and #3 is Felipe Lopez, known in some circles as FLop.
Weeks is an interesting/frustrating conversation topic for me because there’s a fair amount of vitriol on every side. If I tout Weeks’ positives or potential, or quote someone who did, I take a beating for failing to notice his defensive issues, low BA or strikeouts. If I point out his disappointing qualities or quote someone who did, the argument is that I’m completely ignorant of his run scoring, potential and the lack of quality replacement options at second base.
And, of course, if I say what I really think of him, which is that he’s moderately disappointing as a former #2 overall pick but he’s still most likely a better option than anyone the Brewers would acquire to replace him at second, I take it from both sides.
My apology if “bludgeon” was overstating it.
Also, I’ve been to Algona, and with the possible exception of pig feces, there’s nothing unusual in the water.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
by KLSnow on Oct 23, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
The league OBP back in the sixties and early seventies hung out in the .310’s, so even when he had an OBP under .340 it’s not like that was something to sniff at. He only hit 20 HR once, but only two shortstops did that twice over his career. Menke’s career looks kind of like where JJ Hardy is now, actually, in that his numbers don’t look that great compared to everyone, but they stack up nicely against other shortstops.
All that said, there’s a reason no one remembers Menke (except maybe Brad Nelson ;-) and you’re right: decent hitter and All Star appearances or not, it wasn’t a particularly memorable career. Plus if they moved him off short and to other positions, I can’t imagine he was a very slick fielder (hm…).
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 23, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeffress
There might be questions about his AFL status only so long as they figure out who they want to replace him.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 23, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
is Cameron tradeable?
According to the original article and also a blog at the NY Post, the Brewers could exercise his option and then trade him.
by ol Pete on Oct 23, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That'd be an interesting idea.
There’s gotta be a handful of teams that are interested in a veteran with a fantastic glove and good power.
Now that the Pirates got rid of Bay, there’s a hole in the K stat line.
by tcyoung on Oct 23, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't you want him any more?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Oct 23, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can get something good for him and can find a suitable replacement.
Why wouldn’t you trade him?
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 23, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, sure, but that's true of everyone, no? it just depends on how much you get in return
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Oct 24, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He strikes out too much, silly
We need some batting average!
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 23, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm – he aint worth $10,000,000
If we can trade him and gain some high A player for free… I am all for it…
by Saberilliterate on Oct 23, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so who are you going to get that's better?
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 23, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a bit worse and much, much cheaper
by ol Pete on Oct 23, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in 2008, he was about 27 RAR or about 2.5 wins above replacement
free agents cost about $4.5MM per marginal win these days, meaning Delgado’s market value was about $12MM in 2008. i realize spending money on free agent is a waste, but relative to all free agents, he was a small bargain.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Oct 24, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill James, Prince and Willie
This Daily News article mentions that Willie Randolph may also be on Clint Hurdle’s staff. But more interesting is that they print a Bill James list of top young talent in baseball and Prince is #1 and Ryan is #5.
David Wright is #4. My memories of last season of ugly strike outs in big situations and a handful of errors stick out to me. I guess I could watch a few games in Prince’s career or Ryan last year and come away with the same impression.
by ol Pete on Oct 23, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
how is prince #1 in "young talent"?
even on our team, Braun edges him out. Maybe even soto league-wide.
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 23, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't complain
Hopefully when the trade deadline comes around other GM’s will be looking at that list.
Like, how about LIncecum for Prince.
by brewfan2 on Oct 23, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
peavy...
does anyone think the dodgers will go after peavy? they have a ton of young talent, dont they? and jake loves cali.
by Jamie in LA on Oct 23, 2008 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
do you think that the padre’s would trade peavy in their own division??
That would be like the cubs trading Zambrano to us…
by Saberilliterate on Oct 23, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
google search
btw: clicking that link brings up brewcrewball as the #1 hit for me. silly google knowing the sites I like to visit.
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 23, 2008 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Replacing Z
Current assistant scouting director Tony Blengino could be in the mix, as could longtime Zduriencik aide Tom Flanagan, whose current title is director of administration for player development and scouting. Other potential candidates could include Milwaukee’s scouting crosscheckers: Jeff Cornell (roving), Tom McNamara (East Coast), Ray Montgomery (Midwest) and Bruce Seid (West Coast). Cornell has 21 seasons of professional scouting experience, but Seid has the longest tenure with the Brewers (11 seasons).
I think I’d be okay looking at an external hire as long as that individual is from the Rays organization, or another small-market club that’s doing well.
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 23, 2008 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fwiw
blengino is a stats-oriented guy. He’s been in the scouting dept for a while, but iirc, he won a sabr award several years ago. I think he’s part of the internal group that Doug talked about in the spring amidst all the kendall-batting-9th news.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 23, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
What about the “Amateur Scout (IA, MN, NE, ND, SD, WI, IL),” Harvey Kuenn, Jr.? Maybe they should have him take over about fifteen rounds into the draft and watch the prospects accumulate.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 23, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they promote him that aggressively...
I think I’ll have to bang my head against a wall.
sorry.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 23, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is picking up the Cameron option...
Such a difficult decision… He was a bargain last year and will again be a bargain.
by Braun Holio on Oct 23, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
please define ‘bargain’…
Maybe you are misreading the option…. You do know that it is ten million and not one million right???
by Saberilliterate on Oct 23, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
based on 2008 production, he's worth about $12MM on the free agent market.
given his $1MM buyout ($.75MM, actually), paying $9MM for Cameron seems like a good idea, especially considering lack of any other obvious options.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Oct 24, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(most of us realize this)
But OMG STRIKEOUTS tends to take over on occasion.
I endorse Blengino.
by Jordan M on Oct 24, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs


























