A position-by-position analysis
Well, it's officially the post-season now for the Brewers faithful. As selfish homers, those like me can safely ignore what happens from here on out in the playoffs, as none of those teams include the Brewers (or for that matter, the Cubs).
In any case, I thought I'd get together a Post to sort out where I think we stand as well as to open it up to discussion for other BrewCrewBall'ers.
I'll go through this discussion position-by-position (rather than individual-by-individual).
Who do you think will be back next season? Who do you think we should sign off the free-agent market? Who should we trade away and trade for? Who should we unceremoniously toss by the side of the road, existing contract to be paid and all?
Please reply in the thread under each position.
0 recs |
173 comments
Comments
Starting pitching
If the free agents from our squad go unsigned and we don’t pick up anyone in the offseason, he’s how I think our rotation would line up next year.
1. Gallardo
2. Bush
3. Parra
4. McClung
5. Suppan
I personally wouldn’t mind tossing McClung by the side of the road, but unless CV steps up, I don’t think there’s anyone to fill that hole. McClung might be more handy out of the bullpen.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it wishful thinking that we might actually make a play for CC?
That move alone puts us up as favorites right there. In addition, it would show Mark A’s commitment to winning. With that rotation, I don’t see a contender
I just sit back and root for the taser
by Hyatt on Oct 6, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
… but it’s wishful thinking that he’ll sign with us.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Crew gets CC
but I think one of Lowe, Burnett, or Oliver Perez signing with the Brewers is pretty likely.
Now with 100% more Canuck.
by Blicks on Oct 10, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no...
…but he played for the Rangers
you know what that means
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 10, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
misread an article heading
just goes to show you can find “proof” of anything, true or not, if you look hard enough.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 10, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't feel bad
Oliver Perez was once traded with someone who was once involved in a trade that also included a guy whose dad was the GM Doug Melvin replaced in Texas.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 10, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
you know too much irrelevant baseball-related details, you know that, right?
;)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 10, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is how many degrees of separation are there between thejay and Kevin Bacon.
by ol Pete on Oct 10, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
0
TheJay is Kevin Bacon.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Oct 10, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ewww
He’s lucky he isn’t
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 10, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition
Mark A already said he’s in line for a big check, why not us paying it
Also, with the assumption we are making a move with Fielder, you can pretty much relegate McClung to the pen
I just sit back and root for the taser
by Hyatt on Oct 6, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since I would very much mind McClung being gone from the rotation, not to mention the team [obvious treecat is obvious, insert joke here] I’ll put in my two cents about slot #5…because it is the #5.
McClung and Villanueva will presumably be competing for the spot. IIRC DiFelice, now that he’s on the 40-man, is no longer eligible for minor league free agency; I can imagine he’d be competing for it too.
by morineko on Oct 6, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Catcher
We have a few options here
1) Kendall
2) Rivera
3) Salome
4) Rottino
I’d personally like to see Rivera getting more reps. Maybe he could be a battery mate for a bottom-of-the-rotation starter or they could pinch hit him late in games and have him work with the closer. He should at least get more chances during spring training. That being said, I still think Kendall’s our #1.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's Kendall and Rivera again
Rottino, sadly, will probably not ever be ready for prime time. Salome needs another year. By then, Kendall’s contract will be up.
by morineko on Oct 6, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have heard some rumblings
that suggest to me that Salome will get every chance to make the team as the no. 2. He could presumably see more time than Rivera did this year, with the amount increasing as the year goes on. Why not groom him in the majors rather than the minors for the 2010 starting job he’s expected to get anyway?
by James Stanley Cocanower on Oct 7, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's one really good reason not to put him in the majors to start 2009
And it’s called “service time.” For a team that needs to plan its payroll years in advance, you don’t want a potential long-term starter to become arbitration-eligible any sooner than you have to. You bring him up when he’s ready to play full-time, not as a backup.
by Brew Angel on Oct 7, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if he still is developing
he’d be better off not sitting on the bench 14 out of 15 games like rivera was this year.
by friendo on Oct 7, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First Base
Fielder is obviously our man-for-right-now, but he had some prolonged struggles during the season. We also have to face that he might be trade-bait for a quality starting pitching option, especially from an AL squad.
So, who else could fill in at first?
1) Gamel – although his absence near the end of the season was striking. Is he a clubhouse cancer? Is he dealing with a nagging injury?
2) Rivera
3) Joe Dillon
4) Mike Lamb – maybe this is why they signed him late-season?
5) Brad Nelson
our highest-ranked prospect at first base is still in rookieball, so I don’t think we have anyone else to plug in here.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gamel
I believe informed the club he was battling an elbow injury since late july. that explains why his performance dropped off and his lack of appearances with the big league club. he was still at the games, i recall seeing him in the celebration pics.
I really hope the brewers don’t trade prince this year because it is highly unlikely we won’t get value back for him. even if we get Matt Cain I would rather have Prince. Prince is still treading upwards and I think its foolish to trade him.
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“1) Gamel – although his absence near the end of the season was striking. Is he a clubhouse cancer? Is he dealing with a nagging injury?”

by HRF on Oct 6, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yup;)
I would prefer to have him start out in AAA just to gain day-to-day play experience until/unless Fielder is traded. Otherwise he’s just riding the pine in the majors and not gaining anything out of the bargain other than a quicker march toward arbitration.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder
The question with Prince is that arbitration number. It won’t be Howard money but it will be high. And I think it is clear he has no business playing in the field. If any big moves are to be made, I’d think he’ll be part of them.
by James Stanley Cocanower on Oct 7, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second Base
Although Weeks struggled most of the season, down the stretch he really heated up. Is he just now starting to demonstrate his “upside” or is he pretty much a shot experiment?
I don’t know how much longer Durham is on contract, but I peg him to be Week’s platoon mate. There’s also C.C. In the mix as well as a possible transfer by Hardy or Escobar
Here’s how I see the depth chart.
1) Weeks
2) Durham
3) Hardy
4) Counsell
5) Escobar
6) Hernan Iribarren – I was frankly unimpressed by him
7) Brad Nelson?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Give weeks another shot.
I think the Brewers need to give Weeks one more year of trying to play up to his potential. He is a supremely gifted player. If he fails in 09 I say we trade him and move Hardy to 2nd.
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
if nothing else than that he probably would not get us much on the trade market, despite his talent and potential.
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 6, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you see a better option?
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 6, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to move Escobar
Why not let him work on his new position in AAA while he can still be sent there? I think expecting Weeks to break out over a full season is wishful thinking at this point, but he’s not a terrible option at second base.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 6, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not terrible
it just seems perpetual agony – especially high pressure defensive situations.
by ol Pete on Oct 6, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Hardy at 2nd?
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
why not try the Weeks to center thing, Hardy at 2b? Of course this is dependent on Escobar making the team.
by KDean75 on Oct 7, 2008 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um...
because weeks has no range at second, what makes you think he’ll have range in center where he has to cover more ground?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 7, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weeks has pretty good range at 2nd
Notice how he makes all the tough plays, but can’t make the easy plays.
He’s very fast and very athletic, but he’s afraid to put his body in front of a ball.
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weeks OPS in a crap year was .740, Escobar’s MLE this year was .679. With Weeks only making about $2 mil next year, he’s a better option offensively than Escobar. Defense is another thing entirely.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 7, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that sounds pretty close
MLE is an estimator and slugging percentage probably isn’t the best measure.
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who has a fantasy team knows that 2nd base is a spot where there just isn’t a lot of talent. Frankly I’m ok with Weeks, unless someone can point to an obtainable upgrade.
His OPB was decent and his speed is good. Defense is not that bad either.
That said I wouldn’t mind keeping Durham for a platoon/bench player.
by grant76 on Oct 6, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you feel about Orlando Hudson?
He would cost roughly the same as Ray Durham. He’s in his prime, but has been kind of injury prone.
Rickie Weeks’ defense is “not that bad?” The only time it’s not bad is when he’s on the pine!
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Hudson would cost more than Ray Durham.
Better all around player, younger, and will require a longer term committment.
Now with 100% more Canuck.
by Blicks on Oct 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durham will be a free agent
Ray made $7M in ’07 and $7.5M this year. If we want to keep him, I would assume that his price would be very similar, making it tough to sign quality players in other positions.
Weeks, on the other hand, made roughly $1M this year. Arbitration might get him as much as $2M for next year, but that is relatively cheap. Although he certainly has the offensive potential, he has shown us that he lacks the ability to improve his defense. And that was very costly down the stretch.
I’ll sum up my thoughts in the Shortstop portion of the thread.
by tcyoung on Oct 6, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
1) Mark Loretta is a free agent, and made $2.75M last year. If we could bring him back to Milwaukee at a price like that, that would be a fine addition. If Weeks makes drastic improvement, Loretta ends up being the guy we start 3-4 times all over the infield to give guys days off. I think Loretta gives you more offensive upside than Counsell, similar defense, and I’d love to see Loretta back with the Crew.
2) Another free agent possibility would be Tadahito Iguchi. Provides reasonable defense, and wouldn’t be terribly expensive, I think.
3) Offer Houston Bill Hall for Kaz Matsui. Include some cash if we must. Bill Hall would crush the ball in that stadium, and Kaz Matsui
4) Seems like the Rockies could part with Jeff Baker or Clint Barmes for something reasonable. I’m bad at putting together offers for pre-arb and arb-eligible players, but either one of them might bring improvement.
by Matt L on Oct 7, 2008 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rickie Weeks
will not be taking the field in the top of the 1st on opening day—and not because he isn’t healthy. Don’t be surprised if we don’t see him in a Brewers uniform ever again.
by James Stanley Cocanower on Oct 7, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not,
they’re on the road opening day. :)
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 7, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short Stop
This should be the position of greatest contention. Do we keep Hardy or plug in Escobar? Is Escobar ready for the show? Can he handle big league pitching? I guess spring training will help to answer that question.
Because of all of the unanswered questions surrounding Escobar, I think it would be foolish to trade away Hardy yet. Otherwise we’re left with Counsell or Hall filling the void, assuming Graffino is playing elsewhere by now.
Personally I think Escobar is the top candidate to play short next season, with JJ getting reassigned to a different position.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't know where to post this?
It seems we need a 2nd, SS and 3rd thread for its own because they seem intertwined. Some want weeks gone and JJ to move to 2nd. Others want JJ moved to 3rd and others yet want JJ traded for pitching. I am in favor of leaving JJ at short for the time being while you give Escobar at least a half a year of seasoning at AAA. I am of the opinion that Escobar’s bat isn’t quite ready for the majors but he is rapidly approaching that time.
I strongly oppose the trading of JJ he could be the best overall player on the team. He is above average on defense, above average on offense and plays a premium position. If anything does happen to JJ I hope it is a position change to 2nd where his bat will continue to profile as above average and his defensive will continue to be a major asset.
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Escobar will be the Starting shortstop by year's end.
Doug Melvin has made it clear that Escobar will not switch positions.
I’m pretty sure the team values Escobar more than Hardy, and I have to believe Escobar will be on the team next year. (if not at the beginning of the year, he’ll be called up in May or June.)
Assuming that Escobar is SS, there are 3 things that could happen:
1) Hardy gets traded. I sure hope not. That would leave us with a Weeks and Hall still starting. Also, Hardy pretty much pays for his contract with the amount of girls that he brings to the park.
2) Weeks is traded. Hardy is moved to 2nd.
3) Hall is traded. Hardy moves to 3rd.
I sure hope Hardy doesn’t get traded. That would leave us with a Weeks and Hall still starting. Also, Hardy pretty much pays for his contract with the amount of girls that he brings to the park. Oh yeah, and he’s really good.
I think the best option is 2). Weeks’ potential and relatively low contract makes him much more valuable than Hall in a trade. Who knows, perhaps they’ll trade Weeks for a 3rd baseman, thus shoring up 2 positions at once.
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Hall is close to unmarketable with his contract....
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could start at SS on a lot of teams
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree...
… but I wonder how many people will give up something to get him knowing they’ll have to live with his contract. It’s not huge in the grand scheme, but it’s disproportionate to his production in my opinion.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...
it would take good salesmanship, no doubt, but his salary wouldn’t be all that bad if he were to perform well defensively at SS and bump up his offensive numbers a bit from this year which I would expect.
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possible comparison
The Tigers were trying to do a deal for Jack Wilson near the deadline in 2007. His contract at that point ($14.35 mil/2 years + two months of his ‘07 salary) was similar to Hall’s now ($15.7 mil/2 years). If the Brewers are willing to pay some of Hall’s salary after he’s traded, he’s expensive but not terribly so.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 7, 2008 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing that the last thing Bill Hall wants to do
is change positions again.
by tcyoung on Oct 8, 2008 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have the quote
But it was something I had heard him say in an interview early in the season. He said Escobar will be a starting shortstop in the majors. He was basically saying that he has so much talent defensively that they will move others around to make room for him.
It was very early in the season, possibly even spring training.
by tcyoung on Oct 8, 2008 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third Base
I’m left tremendously unsatisfied at this position. We have only Hall and Branyan occupying this position, both 3TO players, with emphasis on the K option.
I have to think the depth chart looks somewhat like this
1) Hardy
2) Branyan
3) Gamel
4) Hall
5) Lamb
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right Field
I think Hart is due for some time in AAA, learning how to deal with down-and-away sliders. So that leaves right field open.
Even though Kapler is up-in-years I think he’s our number 1 option here, assuming Cameron is playing center.
1) Kapler
2) Gamel
3) Hart
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as Hart struggled at the end of the season
I cannot imagine them sending him down to AAA. Yes he needs to work on the down and away sliders but it also seems (as pointed out in another thread) that he just wore down. Some time away and time to work on his conditioning and swing in the off season will probably have him ready to go in the spring. At least, that is what I hope.
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 6, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Hart is still a great talent and was good for most of the season. He struggled in september but I wonder how much of it is Ned not giving the players not enough time off throughout the season. Fatigue seemed to set in for Hart towards the end and hit the wall.
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sure
there is some organizational Hart fatigue. But whether Melvin shares that is anyone’s guess.
by James Stanley Cocanower on Oct 7, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Center Field
I’m assuming it’s a foregone conclusion that Cameron gets re-signed, but perhaps not with the amount of money it costs and the fact that we’ll probably be entering a rebuilding year.
1) Cameron
2) Kapler
3) Tony Gwynn Jr
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cameron
We have a club option on Mike Cameron for $10 Million Dollars next year, so I definitely would not call it a foregone conclusion. I think it’s actually more likely that he will be let go.
I sure hope we sign him, though. His defense is priceless, and there is no replacement for a gold glover and a locker room leader.
If we cannot sign him, a TGJ/Kapler is an option. Moving Hart over to Center is another option that would probably be considered.
Maybe Bill Hall will cancel his contract if we threaten to move him back to Center? Ha!
by tcyoung on Oct 6, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cam
is getting resigned. End of story.
by James Stanley Cocanower on Oct 7, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Left Field
I think this one’s a “well duh”
Braun will be in left, barring any injury/extended suckage. I can see plugging any of the other outfield backups in for him to give him a day off from time to time, but I can’t see moving him elsewhere in the outfield nor platooning him with anyone, so this position is his and his alone.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm still pleasantly surprised at his D this year
Not as stellar as the no errors might indicate, but still solid.
by friendo on Oct 6, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun improved 10-fold in Left this year
I would still say he’s not yet an above average outfielder, but he’s SO much better than he was at the beginning of the year. The only reason he had no errors is because his positioning was so poor that he could not get anywhere near the vicinity of balls that would present errors to him. A lot more outs could have been made early in the year that weren’t, but he has improved greatly. I wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes a defensive stud at his position some day.
by tcyoung on Oct 6, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ed Sedar positioned the outfielders. He played deep, but that’s not that unusual. He had several plays where he covered large distances and made catches, sometimes sliding or diving.
by ol Pete on Oct 6, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braun would play about 20 yards deeper than any other fielder. Sedar put him there because it is much more difficult to run backwards for a ball than forward. As he got more experienced, he began moving closer. He conceded some shallower hits because of this.
Also, at the beginning of the year, Braun missed a few diving catches. He improved as the year went on, and also began moving in.
Point is, he has the athleticism and drive to become a great outfielder. He still has a lot of room for improvement, but he’s so much better than he was at the beginning of the year.
by tcyoung on Oct 6, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
20 yards deeper than any other outfielder?
Sorry, not close to true. And like I said, Sedar positioned the outfielders, something that the organization did quite well in both the infield and outfield i thought. Even if your theory were true that he was playing at the edge of the warning track and letting balls bounce in front of him regularly, it wouldn’t prevent all errors.
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the beginning of the year, 60 feet was not an exaggeration.
Braun was always positioned right in front of the warning track at the beginning of the season. Sedar had him back further because he struggled moving back on balls. Obviously, you’re not gonna get to some balls if you’re playing that deep. As he improved, Sedar moved him in closer.
My point about the errors is that it should not be the only measure of defensive ability. He allowed some hits that would have been outs because of where Sedar had to position him.
And my point of the post was to point out how much he improved throughout the course of the season, and if he continues at that pace and with his learning curve, he could potentially be a gold glover some day. After all, He’s just a boy.
by tcyoung on Oct 8, 2008 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note: Kirbir's pickup line to the left fielder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpx_VXRG_qc
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 7, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh. My. G-d.
I love you.
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 7, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta love pandora for coming up with random songs
and youtube for sharing those songs with others.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 7, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I remember friends telling me how good liz phair is…now I understand
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 7, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer
I seriously hope that Mark A. consider acquiring a solid closer. However, as closers are really expensive on the FA market as well as from other teams, it might be wise to wait on acquiring a closer and giving up some victories unless we appear to be a team in contention around the all star break. Torres did a great job in the first part of the season, but dropped off. I think he’ll definitely be part of our bullpen regardless (hometown FA discount) whereas I think Gagne will be tossed aside due to his lackluster start and potential high demands for salary.
1) Torres
2) McClung (if not starting)
3) Pena
4) Gagne
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t rule out Villanueva as a potential closer yet. He was dominant against the Phillies and very productive down the stretch.
by juggernaut400 on Oct 6, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McClung? Closer? nononononononono
He melts down too easily at this point. If he can pull off the mental fortitude for it in ST, it’s another matter, but…no, he’s still starter or middle material.
by morineko on Oct 6, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer is a position I would consider spending some money on. Here are some free-agents that could make potential closer candidates.
Brian Fuentes – A 2.73 ERA and 30 saves in 2008 after taking over for Corpas. He is in for a big payday this offseason.
Jason Isringhausen – I can’t picture him leaving STL. He will probably re-sign with them or retire.
Bob Howry – He was the frontrunner for the closer job in Chicago before the season began. His annual slow spring training kept him from winning the job.
Brandon Lyon – He converted 26/31 saves in ’08. However, he had an ERA of 8.46 after the all star break, and lost the closer job to Chad Qualls. Might not be a bad pickup.
Francisco Rodriguez – HAHA, Right.
Rafeal Soriano – The second best Soriano in the league. He has been a great closer for the braves, but spent much of 2008 on the DL.
Derek Turnbow – I haven’t heard of this guy, but aparently he made the all-star team and had a voodoo.. er.. bobblehead doll made with hair and everything…
David Weathers – OK, maybe this is more of a setup guy, but he was pretty likable when he was on the Brewers.
Dan Wheeler – This guy is awesome. He keeps a low WHIP, but he can give up some longballs, explaining why his WHIP and ERA aren’t proportional.
Kerry Wood – I’m sure his price is too high, but Wood is one of my favorite pitchers. I would love to see him out of a Cubs jersey so that I can root for him again.
by tcyoung on Oct 6, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other relievers
I think Jefress, Odorizzi, and Gillespi should all be invited to spring camp, but I doubt any one of them is ready to begin the season on the roster.
So, that leaves the standard pen we have now, with Coffey serving as set-up man in the 8th. Here’s how I see roles, assuming we have Mota available.
8th) Coffey
7th) Mota
long or 6th) Villy
LOOGY #1: Shouse
LOOGY #2: Stetter
Parra or McClung may be bumped to long relief if we acquire a decent additional starter.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
“Parra or McClung may be bumped to long relief if we acquire a decent additional starter.”
Not a fan of the concept of ‘sunk costs’, are we? If anyone from your list of starters gets moved to the pen ten out of ten times it should be Jeff Junkballer Suppan.
by HRF on Oct 6, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what of convincing Brooks Kieschnick to unretire?
C. Magruder scored, R. Weeks to second on balk
by alkaseitzer on Oct 6, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i AM a fan of declaring costs sunk
I was advocating DFAing Gagne or keeping him on the DL for an extended period when it was obvious that he couldn’t do his job and Torres was filling in that role well.
however, doug melvin hasn’t indicated he is a fan of declaring costs sunk. And I think it’s he that sets the 25 man roster and puts pressure on the manager on who to play in certain roles (in general). In addition, it’s possible Suppan can regain a bit of form during the offseason. Also, you’ll notice that Suppan is
a) my number 5 starter in the absence of a free agent signing
b) likely to be no better in the pen than in the starting rotation
c) not as adjusted to the pen mentality: Parra and McClung are adapted to coming into the game in high leverage situations, ie out of the pen.
d) has a * next to his name on my 25-man: You’ll notice my 25-man roster below in which I have Suppan on my list for throw-him-under-the-bus if either he underperforms and/or someone in the minors is ready for call-up (ie Gamel or Hart).
Also worth noting: Suppan had a fairly decent middle of the season. He wasn’t fantastic and I thought that CV should be given a shot to start again, but when Bush was down, Suppan seemed to be doing okay. In any case, I don’t think I’d be ready to cut him entirely after just his last few appearances.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark DiFelice is over there, waving excitedly
He’s not awful. Why do people persist on thinking that he’s awful?
by morineko on Oct 6, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His pitches all suffer from the slows
Usually not looked upon too kindly.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 6, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he did really well after his rough initiation getting tossed in at Fenway.
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to break format but I don't want to make a bunch of different posts...
Here’s my vote:
Resign CC. :]
Don’t resign Cameron, move Corey Hart to CF as his offensive production is a little more acceptable as a center fielder, and he has the range and glove to do it acceptably.
Move Hardy to third, Escobar plays shortstop, keep Weeks and Fielder.
Start out with Gabe Kapler in RF, eventually bring up Mat Gamel to play RF with Kapler as the 4th OF.
Shoot Jeff Suppan into the sun / trade him for half-eaten Baby Ruth
Resign Gagne (!) at an appropriate price for a 7th-8th inning guy, pick up Torres’ option.
Bill Hall to the bench or traded.
Braun – Hart – Kapler/Gamel
Hardy – Escobar – Weeks – Fielder
Kendall / Rivera (and I swear to shit if Rivera isn’t starting every five days I will kill someone)
Rotation: CC Gallardo Parra Bush McClung
Bullpen: Villanueva Gagne Torres Stetter Shouse Riske DeFelice
by warwick5s on Oct 6, 2008 2:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ahh
forgot about Riske, but I’ll take Mota over DeFelice in an economically-neutral discussion.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have a lot of money coming off the books (about 45 million for Sheets, Gagne, Mota, Cappy possibly Cam and hopefully Billy Hall). Would it be possible to give CC a front loaded contract, something like 6yrs/140 mil ( 2009- 35mil, 2010- 25 mil, 2011- 15 mil, then settle in at 20-25 for the last 3 years). That would leave $10 million to cover our arbitration raises for ’09 and keep our payroll about the same as this year. We could have a lot of young, cost controlled players (Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Gillespie) playing for us the next 2 years which would allow us to throw $60 mil at CC so we can have him at $15 mil when we are ready to make a move.
A 2011 rotation of CC, Yo, Parra, and Jeffress would make me smile
by juggernaut400 on Oct 6, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Front-loading contracts
Does it really make any difference?
We still need to pay him the same amount of money if we keep him the whole entire time. If we trade him, it’s fairly common for the trading team to continue to pay part of the contract of someone who gets traded to another team.
With a back-loaded contract, if another team really thinks he’s worth 35-50M in each of his last couple of contract years we can unload that at no additional cost. Whereas if it’s front-loaded and they only think he’s worth 15M, we wont’ be on the hook any less than a backloaded contract (where we pay another team 20M additional to the 15M that they’re paying, but we payed that much less on the front end…), so where’s the advantage?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The advantage would be canceling out other players' salary increases down the road
With pre-arby players in the lineup, there’s more money available to give out to other players. After a couple seasons when those pre-arby guys are starting to cash in during arbitration, the increase in their salaries makes it harder to pay a backloaded contract. If you sign a guy like Sabathia to a front-loaded deal, then the increase in salaries for other guys on the team is partly canceled out by the decline in Sabathia’s salary.
The problem with that nice-sounding scenario, however, is that baseball contracts are rarely if ever front-loaded. From a player’s standpoint, it’s smart to back-load contracts to help with negotiations or even arbitration down the road. Teams like back-loading deals because it provides more financial flexibility up front to help build a contender. Front-loading a deal lessens a team’s ability to quickly replace any of the cheap guys who end up struggling at the major league level.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 6, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but
“With pre-arby players in the lineup, there’s more money available to give out to other players. After a couple seasons when those pre-arby guys are starting to cash in during arbitration, the increase in their salaries makes it harder to pay a backloaded contract”
Mark A. could just hide the money that he saves with a backloaded contract the first few years under a mattress. Then payroll for 2009 is officially low, but he’s still on the hook for more later. If he plans his finances well, he saves the money for when it’s needed: when more players hit arb and CC’s contract inflates.
Not to mention that it might actually help the arbitration hearings for a team to claim “we can’t really afford more than X, but we’d like to keep this player.” They might reduce the amount they owe in arbitration, if their other contracts exceed the amount of fresh revenue they’re hauling in, right?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
“Mark A. could just hide the money that he saves with a backloaded contract the first few years under a mattress.”
He could, but most teams would probably use the $5-10million to upgrade other parts of the team for a couple seasons until the backloaded contract starts getting really expensive. Either way, a back-loaded contract is the standard way to go and CC’s deal won’t be any different.
Arbitration hearings don’t take into account the team’s finances (in fact the CBA expressly says that sort of thing is inadmissible). It’s not the arbitrator’s job to look at how a player fits into a team’s payroll. Instead he’s supposed to compare the player to other players at the same position based on service time, what the player’s done in his career and decide whether to accept the player’s number or team’s number based on that.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 6, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
A good agent won’t let his client sign a frontloaded contract. If he gets injured, he wants to lock up all that money.
Just out of curiousity, do any major leaguers have frontloaded contracts?
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contracts are guaranteed no matter how they're structured
It turns out Alex Rodriguez’s deal with the Yankees is front-loaded from 2009 on, so I guess it’s not unheard of in baseball. Not having gone through every team at Cot’s, I don’t know of any other major leaguers with similar contracts.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 7, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the other point I wanted to make
Unlike other sports, Baseball money is guaranteed. That means that backloading a contract won’t hurt the player if he gets hurt because that money is guaranteed.
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last argument would get you laughed out of an arbitration hearing.
What the team can afford is not at issue. It’s entirely about what the player’s performance is worth.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish that was reasonable
I agree that we have a lot of money coming off the book. But a good deal of that money will be going right back into the team.
Suppan will be $4.5M more expensive next year. Hall will cost $2M more, and lacks value in a trade. Weeks, Hardy, McClung? Bush? Villaneueva? Gallardo? and Hart will cost more after Arbitration. The biggest rise in price, however, will obviously come from Prince Fielder. Ryan Howard went from $900k to $10M, and Fielder is entering the same arbitration year with very similar numbers. Counsell and Torres are and extra half Mil each.
That leaves about 20 M to replace or re-sign Gagne, Cameron, Sabathia, Sheets, Mota, and Shouse
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i want shouse
wouldn’t mind signing mota to a slightly cheaper deal than he got last time.
Gagne – where’s the bus with which to run him over?
Sabathia I’d love, but we’d have to give up a bunch of resigns and future ability to sign big guys to get him. I still want him though;)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 7, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manager
Here’s another obvious “position” to fill
Sveum has the potential to be a big-league manager but he’s still a bit too much trust-my-gut for me. He seems smart, but slightly stubborn. A lot more affable than Yost, but who are the other options?
1) Sveum
2) Kremblas (assuming the bridge isn’t burned)
3) Don $
What are the statuses of other managers and top bench coaches/3B coaches around the league? Anyone know who is on the market so we can be a bit more intelligent about this discussion?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Boooooooooo.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2008 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally
i want a statistically minded manager
also want someone willing to play hit-and-run near the bottom of the order
Is Jeff Sackman going to toss in his resume?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff could do it
Imagine people getting pulled from the pitcher’s mound when they need to be…
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
by kirbir on Oct 6, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could do it
“Parra can’t throw a strike today, but he looks hot in that road uniform! Get him out of there and tell him to go back to the clubhouse and wait for me!”
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 6, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally
Why else is there to pull someone off the mound?
Someone send this to Attanasio.
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 6, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...i'll throw my hat into the ring too
I could do better than Yost too.
But near the end I’ll pull out and endorse Kirbir;)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe Mark A
in a money-saving move can announce a Manager-of-the-week.
First week player-manager Craig Counsell
Second week Jeff Sackmann
Third week Kirbir
Fourth week Mark A. can take it himself under very low expectations, as the team will probably need a few days to recover from all the extracurricular activities under Kirbir’s reign.
I’ll take it the fifth week
TheJay can wrest control for the sixth week
Bob Uecker can have it in the seventh
Doug Melvin can have it the either week.
Then Mark A. decides who is best for the team for the rest of the season and only pays the manager 2/3 of what he would for a full season.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
either = eighth
dumbass
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually a great plan
It’d keep the team on their toes for sure.
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Oct 6, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
week 3 they’d be on their backs
(at least I’m assuming that’s the position you have in mind)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoever does get the gig needs to have patience and the knowledge to handle young player development aka not Dusty Baker. Brewers don’t need Yoga or Manny getting their arms blown out due to overuse
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
25 man roster
Here’s my 25-man to start the season. Those with *s after, I believe should get the boot when a minor leaguer (listed after) is ready for promotion – either off the team or down to the minors. Those with #s I think could conceivably begin the season in the minors to be promoted rapidly, but I think they’ll likely start the season on the 25-man regardless (due to voids in our defense).
1) Fielder
2) Weeks
3) JJ
4) Escobar#
5) Kendall
6) Braun
7) Kapler
8) Cameron
9) Gallardo
10) Free Agent/Trade Market Starter (hopefully CC)
11) Parra#
12) McClung
13) Bush
14) Suppan*
15) Carlos Villy
16) Torres
17) Mota
18) Shouse
19) Stetter*
20) Riske
21) Durham
22) Rivera
23) Branyan
24) Hall*
25) Coffey
Minor league to start: Gamel, Hart, Pena, TG Jr, Lamb (if eligible for minor league service)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
actually
right now I have 12 position players and 13 pitchers. I think it should be the other way around;)
so, drop Stetter or Parra to start the season and bring up Lamb. Put Lamb, Riske, Mota and Coffey on short leashes
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you will notice
that I’m really just working with the parts on the 40-man roster we have going right now (except for the magic bullet free agent pitcher). Obviously trades and even free agent shopping could change this picture considerably.
(ie, Fielder for Cain would possibly result in #10 being Cain and #1 being Gamel, Lamb, or Salome (if Rivera moves to first))
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
intentional of course
I don’t make Freudian slips, but I do make a lot of references that might make you think so;)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
however, that was unintentional placement
brewcrewball messes with posts.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
…What’s with preferring Gamel in Right as opposed to Braun?
by HRF on Oct 6, 2008 4:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
because Braun is doing just fine in left
he was so incredibly error prone at 3B (and from what I have extracted at SS during college), so I’d rather stick with him in a known position where we know he can do well.
More balls are hit to left anyway (most righties pull), so despite conventional wisdom about having one of your best arms in right for plays at third, I think he’s more valuable in left. He also has reasonable speed to cover the gaps in left, although I suppose with shading players to pull there’s potentially more ground to cover in right.
Again, if he fits into the left field slot, why not keep him there? it’s the same distance from left to home as it is from right to home. And I wouldn’t necessarily want him to “throw out” his arm/intercostals in right (on plays to third) which could affect his ability to bat. And he’s either our best or second best batter (Fielder being the other). I don’t see Gamel being more valuable than our 4th best bat (ie someone batting #5 or 6 in the order).
Does Gamel fit the mould of a left fielder better than that of a right fielder?
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would Braun ever be considered for a move to Center? He is athletic enough. I know he occasionally takes a bad route on a ball but maybe that has more to do with him reading the amount of hook/slice on a ball hit to left. I think you can get a truer read on a ball hit to center.
by juggernaut400 on Oct 6, 2008 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't mind working him out during spring in Center
but I think I’d rather have Cam or Kapler playing in Center next season, with Hart shifting there if he proves to be an offensive asset at least as good as CamKap.
Again, we know Braun can play an above average left field, so why mess with it. Due to something funky like eye dominance and parallax maybe he can’t play the other side of the diamond at all;) He’s a serviceable left fielder, and we have options for center already. Right field is what we need to fill still. And if we move Braun from left (to right or center), we’d need to fill that instead and risk being worse off.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 6, 2008 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Hart would be a good choice in CF.
by ol Pete on Oct 6, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not? I’m guessing that the organization agrees, based on the fact that he’s never gotten an audition.
by tcyoung on Oct 7, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he doesn't seem to move back on balls all that well for one
its an extremely difficult position to play
by ol Pete on Oct 7, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget to put a thread up for...
Announcers is Mr Baseball coming back? Brian Anderson did TBS work are they going to steal him from FSN? Who we listen to is just as important as who we are watching
by pjpaulus on Oct 6, 2008 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
Anderson did some broadcasting for Fox for at least one game. TBS doesn’t have 4 regular broadcasting crews so they hired people for the series.
by KWSN on Oct 7, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
159, 157 and 155
The games played by Fielder, Hart and Braun this year. I don’t think its a random coincidence that the three most important offensive cogs all went thru a slump in September as they passed 145 games played. They need to find the outfield equivalent of Counsell, a guy that can play all three positions, start 60-70 games and hit 250ish. They have it in Kapler right now, but who knows if Gabe will return. If Kapler moves on replacing him and his defensive flexibility is the most important gap to fill this offseason, because if Fielder, Hart and Braun performed offensively in September and October like they were in July the Brewers are making travel plans to LA right now(or kept pace with the Cubs and LA is making the travel plans).
Ray Durham is likely to retire, Weeks will likely be back for one more break out season and its either Hall/Branyan or Hardy at 3B depending on Escobar’s progress. Hardy/Escobar is the only switch I can forsee in the starting lineup, excluding the potential Prince/Cain trade. Counsell will perform his usual 55 games started at 3 different positions to provide day’s off, and if the new manager has a brain Rivera will see 50 starts at 1B/Catcher.
by Getting Yosted on Oct 7, 2008 12:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
those are high numbers for games played
but I’m not sure Braun’s decline was due to playing too much. I think he handled it fine, except that he was nursing a rib cage injury that robbed him of his power and probably affected his swing. It was a that moment when we needed someone to spell Braunie a little longer to allow him more time to heal.
And, Prince actually had one of his best months in September/October (.316/.398/.600/.998), so I don’t think the number of games mattered too much too him. He did slump in August, but Braun and others carried him.
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 7, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
woodchuck
could Nelson be the guy to play 1st/LF/RF occasionally? He has the type of bat that could fit in the middle (where corey/braun/fielder would be)
by marty22 on Oct 7, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice to have a lefty with power to fill in for Hart vs elite RHPs
by juggernaut400 on Oct 8, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had one
He now plays for the Rays. We do, however, have Josh Butler!
Nelson has played corner OF and 3rd at AAA, but I don’t know how well.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 8, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand what the Brewers seem to be doing to JJ Hardy
I take a look at the Brewers and would argue that JJ Hardy is one of the best strengths of the ballclub. In fact second best strength next to Ryan Braun. On a team that sucks defensively why on earth would Doug Melvin be so arrogant to suggest that Hardy may have to move positions in deference to this Escobar kid?!? If I am JJ Hardy then I am pissed off to no end. JJ Hardy worked his tail off to become your everyday shortstop and a damned good one at that. It is this Escobar kid who should move positions in order to crack the big leagues.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 12, 2008 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
From what I hear,
Hardy has nothing on Escobar. Escobar is better defensively, quicker, faster, and can hit for a better, more consistent average.
I don’t think moving Hardy to third or 2nd is an insult to him, so much as a move to make the team better all around. I think JJ would understand that, and embrace it.
by tcyoung on Oct 12, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i heard that escobar's hitting was suspect
but improving dramatically. I doubt he will be as good as Hardy. More consistent, yes…but more consistently suck.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 13, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I miss something ...
I never heard Melvin ever suggest moving Hardy to a different position. I’ve only heard it talked about by journalists and bloggers.
by oconnobe on Oct 12, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of fan chatter too which doesn’t equal “the Brewers.” Fan chatter over at the bleeding blue sewer doesn’t make the Brewers team defense “sucky” either. It was probably better than the mighty World Series quality defense performed by the mighty Cubs.
by ol Pete on Oct 12, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was mentioned elsewhere in this post.
However, there are 140+ responses in this post; it’s probably worth reiterating.
Earlier in the season, Doug Melvin was doing an interview. When the topic of Alcides Escobar’s future came up, he said that, “he will be a shortstop in the major leagues.” He was alluding to the fact that they will not try to teach him another position. His defense is the best in the system, so it would be a waste to not play him at SS.
That is why journalists, bloggers, and fans are saying that Hardy will move (positions or team) when Escobar is brought up.
by tcyoung on Oct 13, 2008 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if I'm JJ Hardy then I'm not happy and ask for trade
JJ Hardy is one of the best shortstops in baseball. His defense is very good at shortstop. Alcides Escobar is nothing more than a prospect until he proves or disapproves himself at the major league level. You dont’ move a core strength of the team in deference to a rookie trying to make the roster. Either trade Hardy or move Escobar to a new position.
We’ll gladly take Hardy on the Cubs.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 13, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have two good players and two open positions
If we had a good 3B prospect instead, the possibility of Hardy switching positions wouldn’t be brought up. Unfortunately, we have two good shortstops and no third basemen. Since Escobar is more of a defensive specialist, Hardy is the obvious choice for a switch.
Same net offense wither way, just pretend Escobar is playing third (or worse, pretend Counsell is playing third…ahhh!!!)
Brewers aren’t trading him though, if they’re going to unload somebody it will be Fielder because of his pricetag. (Which I still maintain would be a colossal mistake, by the way!)
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Oct 13, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do i get an award?
for most replies in a non-gamethread non-postgame thread? Maybe there’s been a frosty mug with more replies;)
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 13, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I think the winners are the post-trade threads, like when we got CC. There were a couple of big ones when we traded for Caballo, too.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 15, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the Yost fired! one
I forget who posted that… :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Oct 15, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you even got recs for that thread;)
are you Mark A?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 16, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right!
I knew there was another thread like I was forgetting.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 16, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the yost fired and the post-firing-yost press conference thread had an identical number of posts
isn’t that odd?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 16, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I noticed that too.
I think the government is involved.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 16, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are inferring, that doesn’t mean he was implying and in all honesty its more than a stretch. I find the whole “waste” argument without merit.
by ol Pete on Oct 13, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question was relating to what will happen with Hardy when Escobar comes up, so it wasn’t just me inferring. I’m just telling what I heard.
Isn’t it a little bit of a waste to not put your best defensive talent where it fits best? If Escobar is as good as they say he is defensively, wouldn’t it make sense to put him at short?
Regardless, if we keep Escobar and Hardy, I like that infield defense.
by tcyoung on Oct 14, 2008 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't it a little bit of a waste to put Hardy at another position
I just read somewhere, I think it was Bill James, that rated Hardy as the third best defensive SS in baseball.
If Melvin really has the same attitude toward Escobar that he has toward Rickie Weeks where the player is above the team, I hope it turns out better.
by ol Pete on Oct 14, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t really think it’ll make much of a difference which one you move, or which one is the correct move, but if Melvin still feels the way he did at the beginning of the year, Hardy is the one that will move. Eitehr way, it’s a good problem to have.
Let’s just hope whatever happens, it works out. I just hope they don’t trade Hardy. I would love to watch a Hardy-Escobar duo patrolling the middle of the infield this year.
by tcyoung on Oct 14, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy
I don’t get a chance to see Hardy that much because the Brewers don’t get a lot of national TV coverage and I am not paying for the MLB Package these days. However, if you told me that my team was going to have a 25 year old SS that plays above average defense and will hit around .280 25 75 with an OBP of .340 w/o a ton ok K’s..I would be overcome with Joy. Escobar may be a really good prospect…but he is still a propsect. Hardy is a top flight ML SS. If you move Hardy to 3B you lose much his value. A decent fielding 3B with his numbers gives you Casey Blake-nothing that specatcular.
If Escobar is indeed taking over at SS then I would hope that the Brewers are moving Hardy and getting A LOT in return. I can think of several teams that would LOVE to have Hardy-White Sox, Cubs, Detriot, Cleveland, Pirates, Boston, Twins, Royals hell if he was playing for the Royals or the twins he would be batting clean up and drive in 100 RBIs, Giants, Seattle, Oakland etc.
My point is that Hardy should be playing until he gets surplanted. Which I don’t think will be anything short of 1-2 seasons away.
by calbers on Oct 13, 2008 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'd be batting clean-up on the twins.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 13, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...not clean up
Ok. I wasn’t thinking about Morneau so my hyperbole wasn’t very effective…but I think Hardy actually did have more HRs then Morneau this year. So while clean up may not have been exactly right….#5 hitter might be more appropriate.
My point is that is a good defensive SS that is putting up extremely good production at the plate…production that seems to be unappreciated and under utilized.
by calbers on Oct 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Than Casey Blake apparently would also be in that position on the Twins.
At least, according to your argument.
No matter where you put Escobar and Hardy, you’re going to be getting the same offensive production. JJ at 3rd will not hit .30 points and 10 home runs lower than Hardy at shortstop.
I’m obviously all for moving Hardy to third base—not to second though. I actually think with his arm and quick first step, he would be a great defensive 3B.
I see five third basemen I would take over JJ. A-Rod, David Wright, Evan Longoria, Aramis Ramirez, and Chipper Jones. POSSIBLY Ryan Zimmerman, too. Still though, we’re talking about Hardy being a top 6 SS in baseball, he’d probably be a top 6 3B, too.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 14, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...yes. In the Twins line up Casey Blake would probably be hitting 5th this year
The example of the Twins was given because of their lack of power throughout their lineup.
But you miss the point….Escobar hasn’t done anything yet. He had a fairly good year in the minors but doesn’t have a major league track record yet. If Hardy gets beat out for the SS job..great. But if you won’t see that happen yet. If Escobar comes up and is the next Omar Vizquel (latter stages of his career…not the seattle days) then fine..move Hardy. But he hasn’t done anything yet and you have an excellent SS with very few liabilities and we are already talkign about moving him? Escobar may be the future SS for the Brewers but I am talking about next year.
By the way…there are a whole list of 3B that are at least capable of putting up decent offensive production …and there is not a whoe list of SS who could match his power. A healthy Rolen, Chavez, or Glaus could match his production. Wiggington is close to his production…Figgins is not a prototypical 3B but his offense has value. You forgot about Lowell,….heck you forgot about Youkalis. There is also Kouzmanoff in SD (Look at his numbers on the road to get a sense of how good he could be). Crede his years. Guillen in Detroit is not a complete waste….Cantu had a good year…Reynolds has huge ammounts of raw power….You can find offense at 3B…even if you get past the elite players. If you go to SS it doesn’t take you long to run into the Bartletts, the Wilsons, the Penas, the Carberras, the Lugos, the MCDonalds of the league that show that SS is still a position of offensive scarciity. The drop off between the top and the bottom at SS is huge.
by calbers on Oct 14, 2008 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you can find offense at third
But here’s the thing, you’re finding it with all these “ifs”. If this, if that, if if if if if if if if.
If.
Lowell last year would have beat Hardy, but that was the first time he ever hit over .293 and, given his age, was probably more of a fluke season. His power has been consistent, but I’d say if anything he is barely equal to JJ. Youkilis is a first baseman now.
Those guys may have put up good numbers before at third base, but I am talking about now.
“Had his years…not a complete waste…had A good year…amounts of raw power”. Yeah, but Hardy is IN his years, is an asset not any form of a waste, is stringing together several good years, and if we wanted raw power at third base, we have Russell the muscle Branyan, as Jihad is a proponent of.
Shorstop is not really too much worse of an offensive position than third is, maybe as good or better even, considering the Shortstops in the league: Reyes, Young, Tejada, Drew, Jeter, Hanley Ramirez, Theriot, Guzman, Rollins, Yunel Escobar, Tulowitski. Orlando Cabrera, Jhonny Peralta and Edgar Renteria all are worthwhile. Bartlett wasn’t great, though certianly not in the lower echelon of batters.
Escobar’s defense is Major-league ready. I think it would be more than reasonable to expect him to hit at the very least .260, with plenty of stolen bases, though I think it is probably more realistic to expect a .275 average. Average obviously isn’t the ultimate stat, but I think the production of Escobar/Hardy next season would be better than that of Hardy/Hall or Counsell.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 14, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, a Cub fan opinion on what the Brewers should do in the field...
Keep JJ Hardy at shortstop. He has quietly become one of the best in the business.
Move Rickie Weeks to the outfield. Sorry, he is a brutal defensive 2nd baseman. And too good of a potential hitter to give up on.
Trade Prince Fielder. He’s never going to re-sign with you guys and you know it. He’s also precariously close to eating himself out of this league. I say sell while the selling is good. The Angels may have big interest since they are likely to lose Mark Texiera to the Yankees or Orioles.
Move Ryan Braun to 1st base.
Wave bye-bye to the overrated and aging Mike Cameron.
"What pressure should I have on me? There's no pressure on me." -- Lou Piniella (10/3/08)
by MDBNIU on Oct 14, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth would you move Braun to first?
He’s really improved defensively in the outfield and was good enough to earn a starting spot on the All-Star team.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Oct 14, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do not, under any circumstances,
allow logic/reason to interfere with that fantastic idea.
I should formulate a Cub plan: Lee hits into too many double plays, trade him to the AL. Move Soriano to first. That is all.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on Oct 14, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would he bunny-hop on throws to first?
that’d be awesome. Safe every close play.
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 14, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's good for the game though.
Makes ground-outs that much more exciting.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 15, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's a dumbass.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 15, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who?
MDBNIU or Braun?:P
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 15, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
congrats for making sports illustrated:P
do you have that framed?
Situational Signature (8th/9th inning only): pleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendallpleasenotkendall
--NoahJ
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 15, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would look at the types of hitters...not really positions
I really think the Brewers need a type of offensive player in their line up and that if they can find that type of hitter, they can move people around defensively to cover. Worst case Hall can cover wherever he is needed.
However, I think the Brewers need a true lead off hitter and a true # 2 hitter. If you look up and down their line up I think they are lacking those types of players. Someone who make consistent contact, doesn’t strike out a lot, and can get on base. Personally I would let Cameron go and see if you can find a cheaper, more effective option. I would also love to see the Brewers get a Loretta type player to play 2B or 3B. I don’t think Loretta is the option anymore, as he is too old to count on. However, someone like a Freddy Sanchez or Mark Ellis would be a good option to play 2B and bat 2nd.
As for Weeks…package him and get some help elsewhere. I just don’t see him being a long term option for the Brewers at 2B.
by calbers on Oct 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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