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Around SBN: Will Rhymes 'Fine' After Being Hit By Pitch And Fainting

The All-Time All-Rickie Team

First off, I want to say thanks to KLSnow for inviting me on board as an official contributor instead of occasional FanPost poster (FanPoster?). Basically the difference is the random and long-winded FanPosts I put up now will show up on the front page. Aren't you guys lucky?

For my first actual story, I thought I'd look at one of the most controversial Brewers: Rickie Weeks. Ask a random Brewers fan what he thinks about Weeks and you'll probably get one of three reactions: (1) He's a disappointment who struggles to consistently hit his weight or field his position and the team should look to upgrade, (2) he is what he is: an average hitter with a pretty good on-base percentage and more than his share of defensive struggles who is unlikely to improve further, or (3) a future star who will have his breakout year in 2007 2008 2009. The debate about which of those three reactions is correct has gone on plenty of times in plenty of places and it will go on until Weeks breaks out for a full season or is no longer in a Milwaukee uniform. I'm not really interested in re-kindling that debate today, but that doesn't mean I can't talk about Rickie.

Regardless of what his future may be, here's what Rickie is now with the bat: a career .245/.352/.406 hitter, good for a 97 OPS+. Since 2005, when he first became a regular major leaguer, major league batters have put up a .266/.334/.422 line. This confirms what everyone already knows: Rickie Weeks has a low batting average, is above average at getting on base, and has a lower than average slugging percentage. Mixing those last two traits makes him the slightly below average hitter his 97 OPS+ says he is.

Well, nothing groundbreaking there. What I really want to do is put together a team of players from MLB history who were like Rickie Weeks. Specifically, I want to find a player at each defensive position with an ugly batting average, a good on base percentage, and an unimpressive slugging percentage when compared to his contemporaries. For each player I've selected, I've listed his career batting line along with the league average batting line for the years spanned by his career as a regular major leaguer (forget brief call-ups on either end of his career). Finally, I've ignored each player's defensive ability when considering putting him on the team--if it turns out the player was good with the glove, woo hoo, but if he wasn't then he's even more like Rickie Weeks (cue another debate about his defensive merits). Now that that's out of the way, my attempt at the All-Time All-Rickie team is after the jump.

Star-divide

The Starting Lineup


Catcher:
Wes Westrum   Career: 1947-1957   Team(s): Giants
Career Batting Line: .217/.356/.373, 94 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .261/.335/.388

A two-time All-Star, Westrum started out splitting time behind the plate for the Giants before taking over as the regular starter in 1950. After four seasons as the primary Giants backstop, a rough 1954 campaign at the age of 31 shifted him back into a part-time role. Westrum's 1950 season put him on the map, as he rapped out 103 hits, socked 23 homers and walked 92 times en route to a .236/.371/.437 line. His best season in terms of OPS+ was in 1951 when he walked 104 times (he had 25 more walks than hits!) to put up a .400 OBP while slugging .418. That made everyone look past his abysmal .219 batting average, right?

First Base: Mike Jorgensen    Career: 1968-1985    Team(s): Mets, Expos, Athletics, Rangers, Braves, Cardinals
Career Batting Line: .243/.347/.373, 101 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .258/.323/.380

Lefty Mike Jorgensen never made an All-Star team, never hit more than 18 home runs in a season, hit above .260 only twice, and finished his career with 833 hits over 17 seasons. Used mainly as a platoon player, Jorgensen had a couple good seasons in Montreal to start his career but a trade for future Hall of Famer Tony Perez left him without a position. After being traded to Oakland in 1977, he bounced around the majors as a pretty good bench player. Interestingly, he stole 28 bases in 1972 and 1973 combined but stole only 27 more bases over the rest of his career.

Second Base: Rickie Weeks    Career: 2003-2008    Team(s): Brewers
Career Batting Line: .245/.352/.406, 97 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .266/.334/.422

See above.

Shortstop: Eddie Joost    Career: 1936-1955    Team(s): Reds, Braves, Athletics, Red Sox
Career Batting Line: .239/.361/.366, 99 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .261/.334/.377

Eddie Joost broke into the big leagues with the Reds and played during most of World War II, though he did miss the entire 1944 and 1946 seasons. It wasn't until he joined the Athletics in 1947 that he really broke out. Whereas his time in the NL was spent as a decent but unimpressive shortstop with the bat, he managed to join an AL team just in time for the American League to start squeezing pitchers (the AL walk rate back then was at 4 BB/9). This bit of luck turned an already patient hitter into a walk-drawing monster who drew over 100 free passes for six straight seasons. He made two All-Star teams and drew MVP votes in five different years. Don't confuse him with fellow All-Star and walk-taker Eddie Yost, a.k.a yosted01.

Third Base: Wayne Garrett    Career: 1969-1978    Team(s): Mets, Expos, Cardinals
Career Batting Line: .239/.350/.341, 95 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .255/.322/.374

I could have gone with the aforementioned Eddie Yost here, but I thought Garrett fit the bill even a little better. Originally drafted by the Milwaukee Braves, Garrett was plucked by the Mets in the 1968 Rule 5 draft. He suffered through a terrible rookie year as a 21-year-old on the Miracle Mets, but had a stunning turnaround the very next season. Unfortunately, that turned out to be his best year. Military service cost him the first half of the 1971 season and he struggled upon his return to baseball. A successful year as a part-time player in 1972 earned him a starting job over the next couple years but struggles against lefties contributed to his eventual return to part-time duty. After the 1978 season he went to Japan for two years.

Left Field: Joe Lahoud    Career: 1968-1978    Team(s): Red Sox, Brewers, Angels, Rangers, Royals
Career Batting Line: .223/.334/.372, 103 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .251/.319/.367

The outfield was tough to fill for this team and left field was the toughest spot. Amongst a group of career bench players, Lahoud stands out as the guy who actually got a decent amount of playing time in more than one season. An okay 1971 season belied by a .215 batting average made him a member of the trade that brought George Scott to the Brewers. A disappointing 1973 season in Milwaukee earned him a trade to California where he lasted a couple seasons before fading away. Lahoud had an above-average (however slightly) slugging percentage, but hey, he'll have to do.

Center Field: Dwayne Murphy    Career: 1978-1989    Team(s): Athletics, Tigers, Phillies
Career Batting Line: .246/.356/.402, 115 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .260/.324/.389

Dwayne Murphy would be the star of this team. I can see how there might even be questions about him being on the team, given his 115 OPS+ when everyone else is near 100. Given the lack of options in center, however, I think he makes a nice addition without straying too far from the spirit of the team. Call him Rickie's upside, if you want. Flanked by Rickey Henderson and Tony Armas, Murphy won six straight Gold Gloves from 1980-1985 while hitting over .256 only once in his career. Not a speed demon like his teammate in left field, he finished his career with an even 100 stolen bases. He also hit 166 home runs, including 33 in 1984, fueling that .402 career slugging percentage.

Right Field: Ted Savage    Career: 1962-1971    Team(s): Phillies, Pirates, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, Reds, Brewers, Royals
Career Batting Line:
.233/.334/.361, 95 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .248/.314/.372

An original Brewer, Savage changed teams about as often as the early 1960's Cubs changed managers. Originally born with the first name Ephesian, Ted was the 1961 MVP of the International League. This earned him a spot on the Phillies, where he had a good rookie season in 1962. Traded after the season for aging third baseman Don Hoak, Savage endured a number of up and down years and struggled to hit his weight in the majors. Two days before the start of the 1970 season, the Brewers purchased Savage from the Reds and he rewarded their faith with by far his best season as a regular. That didn't earn him a lasting spot on the team: after a terrible first month in 1971, he was shipped to the Royals. Even in a decade when the league as a whole struggled to hit .250, Savage's low batting averages doomed him to a journeyman's career.


The Bench


Backup Catcher:
Ellie Rodriguez    Career: 1968-1976    Team(s): Yankees, Royals, Brewers, Angels, Dodgers
Career Batting Line:
.245/.356/.308, 94 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .251/.319/.368

Infielder #1: Billy Grabarkewitz    Career: 1969-1975    Team(s): Dodgers, Angels, Phillies, Cubs, Athletics
Career Batting Line:
.236/.351/.364, 101 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .252/.321/.370

Infielder #2: Eddie Lake    Career: 1939-1950    Team(s): Cardinals, Red Sox, Tigers
Career Batting Line:
.231/.366/.323, 91 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .259/.332/.366

Outfielder #1: Warren Newson    Career: 1991-1998    Team(s): White Sox, Mariners, Rangers
Career Batting Line:
.250/.374/.401, 104 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .264/.333/.407

Outfielder #2: Ron Roenicke    Career: 1981-1988    Team(s): Dodgers, Mariners, Padres, Giants, Phillies, Reds
Career Batting Line:
.238/.353/.338, 92 OPS+        MLB Average Batting Line: .259/.324/.390

I have some quick notes about the bench. Newson and Roenicke were both career backups. Newson was likely hampered by his size (5'7" isn't as tall as it used to be). Roenicke was drafted five separate times by major league teams before signing and he wound up being released by five separate teams. He played for six teams in the majors without ever being traded for another player. Lake became a starter during WWII and managed to hold onto his spot for a couple seasons after the war. Grabarkewitz was a starter for one year (1970) and made the All-Star team. Tinkering with his swing and a shoulder injury after that season torpedoed his career. Finally, Ellie Rodriguez is who Jason Kendall now aspires to be. An early Brewer, he was the Royals' inaugural All-Star in 1969 and the Brewers' first All-Star catcher in 1972. He was good at getting on base, but hit for very little power. Useless trivia: In Rodriguez's 325 games as a Brewer, he had 39 extra base hits. Kendall had 34 extra base hits in 151 games last season.

So, that's my take on the All-Time All-Rickie team. There are a couple guys with power to fill out the middle of the lineup and everyone is good at getting on base. Would I want to try and win a pennant with this crew? Probably not, but if I did it would be fun trying to set a new record for lowest team batting average by a pennant winner.

Comment 11 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Am I wearing my Brewer goggles or

Is Rickie not the physical embodiment of a star player? I understand athletes don’t perform to their looks (which of us really ever do?), but I just can’t get past the basic tools he seems to have. How many of the guys on the all-Rickie team brought such Sheffield-like measurables (speed, power, frame) to the table? Great article, though, it really helps me and Weekly fixation.
go jets.

by One-Flap Down on Nov 11, 2008 2:36 PM CST reply actions  

Why is he being compared to major league hitters overall?

Guys that play first or corner OF and so forth have no bearing on the conversation, since they cannot play second base.

Compare him to second-basemen and go from there.

by badgermaniac on Nov 11, 2008 4:11 PM CST reply actions  

Well, I suppose you could have a team of all second basemen...

But it would kind of defeat the purpose of having a “team.”

I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 11, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

That isn't the point at all.

Second basemen should be compared to second basemen, and so forth. It does you no good to compare Weeks to Albert Pujols…they play different positions with different responsibilities.

Your exercise is worthless unless you at least compare them to like groups. A better method would be to compare Weeks to the average second baseman. Hypothetically, let’s say he is exactly average. An apt comparison would be an exactly average catcher, an exactly average CF, and so forth.

A catcher with a .800 OPS has dramatically more value than a 1B with the same OPS. The catcher is probably one of the top 2-3 catchers in the league. The 1B will be one of the worst.

It just makes the player comparisons meaningless.

by badgermaniac on Nov 11, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we're comparing here

we’re just finding some more of a Weeks-type players. If we were determining his worth, we would compare him to 2bmen.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by Jordan M on Nov 11, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

What I really want to do is put together a team of players from MLB history who were like Rickie Weeks. Specifically, I want to find a player at each defensive position with an ugly batting average, a good on base percentage, and an unimpressive slugging percentage when compared to his contemporaries.

TheJay was just finding players at each position with similar batting lines to Rickie Weeks.

Finally, I’ve ignored each player’s defensive ability when considering putting him on the team

Since we are not judging by defense, according to TheJay, this works out fine. It is just a fun little drill to show how rare it is to find a player who puts up stats like Rickie Weeks, finding one at each position to create a team, while filling our minds with uselessly fun baseball trivia.

Besides that, defensive positioning has no bearing when you are comparing SOLELY offensive numbers.

Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9

by Noah Jarosh on Nov 11, 2008 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

but you can do that AND be more relevant

Find a 3B that has the same relative skill/value/skill set as Rickie.

Like I said, comparing across positions ceases to be interesting simply because there is such a drastic difference between positions.

I don’t see what is interesting about stating that a 1B that hits like Weeks sucks. Show me who a 1B is who is similiar to Rickie, relative to the position. Pretty much every 2B is going to have a bunch of lousy comps if you don’t consider position…it is the nature of 2B.

Again, relative value tells us more as opposed to relative stat lines.

For instance, Week’s .760 or whatever OPS puts him right about average for MLB 2B. His comp at 1B would be someone like Paul Konerko, who had a low average, solid OPB, but low SLG.

Nick Swisher is a decent CF comp.

Once you get that team, you can ask yourself if you can win with that team or not.

Position matters tremendously, because it affects what the rest of your lineup looks like. If you can play Mike Piazza at catcher and not have to play him at first, it means you can get another big bat in the lineup.

That is why guys like Utley or Hanley Ramirez or Brian McCann have so much value.

To sum up, I think looking at relative value informs us more than comparable stat lines, but to each their own.

When you look at Weeks’ similiary scores at a similiar age, we have someone like Bobby Grich, who is a HOF caliber player, but we also have guys like Jeff Blauser, Omar Infante, and Felipe Lopez (and the mediocre comps are starting to outnumber the positive comps).

I will say that as noted in the original topic, he does have a pretty unique skills set, as hackers like Shawon Dunston and Dale Sveum are on his top 10 comp list, and they really aren’t all that similiar at all in many respects.

by badgermaniac on Nov 11, 2008 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

It's more about finding players with his skill set, as of right now

it’s pretty rare, as we can see by this.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by Jordan M on Nov 11, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The list of automatic fights on the internet

1. Apple computers
2. Politics
3. Rickie Weeks

by Getting Yosted on Nov 12, 2008 10:26 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

It's true.

If we found out that Rickie Weeks uses a Mac and votes for Democrats, the entire internet would consume itself.

I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 12, 2008 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

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