Brewers exercised outfielder Mike Cameron's $10 million option for 2009
I am not surprised.
And what's more, I'm pleased.
over 3 years ago
Jeff Sackmann
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Why not?
The rumored interest from the Yankees justifies this move. If the Yanks get desperate mid-season the Crew can always look to make a deal with them.
Also, is Gwynn really ready to play 162 games?
I don't know who is ready for 162
but I assume you mean a full season. I’d say he probably is and the 9 million difference will come out of somewhere. I would have liked to see the money spent on pitching.
The only farm that I would empty for Peavy would be a 5 acre hobby farm raising hamsters…
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
after you empty the farm you have to pay him
signing Cameron means there is that much less grocery money.
at 2 to 3 strikeouts a game
what does that 10 mil break down per strikeout ;)
I want to go on record that this is a mistake and will bite us in the ass like the 10 mil we wasted on Gagne.
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
Ditto
I do agree with Tim though that this might be trade bait… and hopefully is.
I would much rather see Gape Kapler in the lineup
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Just because it is the same number of $10 million?
Who do you suggest fill in the CF role? He has solid power and above average fielding and we know what we are getting with him. Unless you think an injury will occur for some reason or he is going to be suspended again, I don’t see it as a mistake. Plus, another team would be willing to pay Cameron $10 million, the Brewers I think doubled any other offer out there with Gagne.
Kapler is a great story and a great guy, but are you going to trust him as the everyday CF?
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
Kapler is a great story and a great guy, but are you going to trust him as the everyday CF?
Ummm Yes. With a career 15.7% strikeout rate compared to a 27.8% I will take Kapler.
I have no idea what Cameron’s wife looks like – but I am pretty sure that Kapler’s wife is hotter.
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Besides the obvious...
Issue that Kapler may have a hard time staying healthy, if we’re only going to look at strikeout rates why not go after Corey Patterson, he doesn’t strike out much (14.5%)?
Let's start with one important note:
Even if the Brewers had declined Cameron’s option, there’s no guarantee Kapler will be back. He’s a free agent.
But, if you’re honestly suggesting Kapler would be a fair replacement for Cameron, I have some numbers you should see.
Cameron OPS+, last 3 seasons:
2008: 110
2007: 103
2006: 121
In fact, Cameron’s OPS+ has been over 100 in every season since 1999.
Now, Kapler:
2008: 117
2007: Out of baseball
2006: 77
2005: 65
In fact, with the exception of 2008, Kapler’s OPS+ has been under 100 every season since 2001. With the exception of 2008, his OPS+ has been lower than Cameron’s every season but one since 1999 (2007, Kapler 108, Cameron 107).
So, simply put, Cameron has been an equal or superior hitter to Gabe Kapler in literally every season of Kapler’s career.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
Correction
Cameron’s OPS+ was lower than Kapler’s in 2000, not 2007.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
I saw that too when I was looking up his strike out rate.
I just think that as a percentage of payroll… to have 11-12% soaked into a position player…. I just don’t like it – especially when you said player has an OPS+ of 110.
I would commit to that percentage of payroll if the player had Albert Pujols’ Career OPS+ of 170 and last years OPS+ of 190 I would commit to a large percentage of the payroll on that player. Albert made $16M of the Cardinals $100M payroll last season.
So to commit 12% of your payroll to a player with a career OPS+ of 106???? I would rather commit 1% to a Gabe Kapler TGjr Platoon
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
That's just unrealistic.
If you want to play old school and only pay the elite players in the game $10 mil annually, that’s fine. The Marlins won some games like that last year. They’ve also had some atrocious seasons. The Rays won that way too, after a decade as a laughingstock.
If the Brewers hadn’t exercised Cameron’s option, he would have made significantly more on the open market…that’s just the way the market is.
Part of the positive of having built largely from within, as the Brewers have, is having productive players on the team who are still early in arbitration and pre-arbitration, whose cheap paychecks make it feasible for their team to spend more money to get the final pieces to the puzzle.
Also, Gabe Kapler will get AT LEAST $3.5-4 million this offseason to either paly everyday for a bad team or be the 4th OF for a good one, so the difference isn’t $9.25 million, it’s closer to 5.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
But I am still not expecting the payroll to be more (if any) than $90m. There is only so much to go around, and I would rather have spent that $10 on a quality pitcher.
I am in no way saying that Mike Cameron is not worth $10m. I am saying that he isn’t worth that to the Brewers.
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Ok – so you don’t like Kapler thinking that he will get $4-5M….
How about Brad Wilkerson
232 career games in CF, career OPS+ of 104 and a LH bat.
He had an off year last year so he will [should] make less than the $3M that Seattle paid him
How about Juan Rivera? A career OPS+ of 106 and only made $2M last season…
The point there are other options
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh
You can make an argument that the Brewers would be better off with a cheaper option in centerfield as we track to track down the elusive White Whale Starting Pitcher.
Still…Juan Rivera? He had a .720 OPS last season and has only played a handful of games in centerfield since 2001.
As for Wilkinson, whom I was in favor of getting last offseason…it’s a stretch to anoint him a starting centerfielder. He’s played 7 games there since 2005 (ahem, 3 teams ago). He also hasn’t an OPS north of .800 since, well, the Expos.
As expensive as he is, the truth is, we have no other credible options for centerfield. When you consider that our pitching will be worse next season, I think we’ll be glad we have a Gold Glover in center.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
You also have to give up a player to get someone
Cam doesn’t cost us a player or a draft pick. I wonder what the opinion of him would be if he hit .290/.330/.500 last year with 25 homers.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
Or if he had the same batting line and HR/RBI total, with something like 10 GDP and only 90 strikeouts.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
I would love to change his stats…. while we are at can Rickie Weeks have a .400 OBP with a .280 ave and have him turn a double play…
Of course I have a hard time picturing the Brewers, without CC or the part-timer Sheets, being competitive in 2009. So I don’t see why we need to throw $10 million at Cameron.
Do I see your arguments… Yes I do. I do believe that Cameron is worth $10M…. just not to the Brewers.
by Saberilliterate on Nov 3, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
Here's the point, I should've looked up his Slg
He hit: .243/.331/.477
How would it have been different if he hit .280/.331/.477? That’s what I was trying to say. The difference would be extremely small, but it changes people’s perception.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Gold Glover
you mean someone who won one at one time I assume because I don’t think he’s a Gold Glover any more
FWIW
He had one error in center last season.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
and Braun had none IIRC
Cam also had several balls that hit him in the glove that he dropped.
Just tonight on the radio he let slip that his injuries sometimes affect his vision. I wonder if he is still pursuing his medical exemption for stimulants. I would think he could do it pretty easily unless MLB is hardass about it.
On a more positive note, he said he talked to CC every few days and said the decision on where to play wasn’t all about money.
I thought that errors were a bad stat and purely speculative therefore shouldn’t be counted as a real stat.
I remember a few BIG non-error misplays by Cam that cost us big.
by Saberilliterate on Nov 4, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, so do I
I wouldn’t call it the end-all be-all for defensive statistics. However, I don’t think it should be totally discarded either. (Especially given that an argument often made when it comes to defensive statistics - that a slow player with poor range “benefits” by not reaching hard-hit (and potentially tricky) balls - would not apply to someone with Cameron’s speed, I’d reckon.)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Striking out: an unconscionable offense.
Without Gagne, the Brewers would’ve what, made the playoffs…advanced because the bullpen let them down against Philly?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
It seems like a lazy criticism
I want to know what WSB Chris thinks would have gone better if Gagne wasn’t on the team. The Brewers made the playoffs, Gagne wasn’t the reason they lost to the Phillies, and his salary didn’t prevent the team from pulling off a huge in-season trade. If it wasn’t going to Gagne – where would that $10 million have helped? Would it have helped enough to put the Brewers in first place so they faced the Dodgers in the first round? Is that the idea?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
its easy to criticize Gagne because its hindsight
and what ifs never really work because they string together so many “ifs.” Once you get to a few “ifs” the odds of it happening are too low to matter. But just for the hell of it and not out of any hard held belief, someone (not me) could make the argument that without the poor performance as a closer the team wouldn’t have had to push CC so hard or might have been able to set up its pitching better.
Now that they’re both gone I wonder what Maddux’s input to the Gagne hiring was.
good point
I don’t get how signing Gagne bit us in the ass. We had 10 million dollars to spend. We needed a closer. We signed him to a one year contract. It’s not like we tied our hands for future years. I mean, we still had enough money to go out and trade for CC and Durham. We still made the playoffs, and he was pretty solid after the all star break.
New front page poll
I’m curious where the general consensus is on this move. So you should vote.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
You should move the Poll above the fanposts for better access. Someone logging on just to see the headlines will not see it.
unfortunately, not an option
the SBN template (including the ad on the right side-bar) sticks us with everything above the poll, which must stay above the poll.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Nov 3, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't expect Cameron to repeat last season's offensive production
But considering the options this is a good move.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
I'm guessing
the move was about defense more than offense. I applaud this move with a weak CF Free Agent Crop.
I know I mentioned this before
So why not belabor the point? :)
I’d assume that by signing Cameron, Moustache is not overly optimistic about getting CC back. Derek Lowe, please answer the white courtesy phone…
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
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| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
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Chicago
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0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
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Cincinnati
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Houston
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0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
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Milwaukee
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