Mark Attanasio Thinks MLB Might Need a Salary Cap
It sounds great and all, but I guess I don't see how putting in a cap will really level out the playing field. Where would the cap be set? Chances are it'd be relatively high for small-market teams, maybe reaching $100 million. There's just too many teams that can afford more than that to accept a lower number, and that doesn't take into account the opposition of the players' union. When the Brewers struggle to put up a $90 million payroll, a cap of $100 million doesn't help them or other less wealthy teams. It just spreads the highest-paid players around a few more of the largest markets.
10 months ago
TheJay
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Yeah, it really wouldn't work in this situation
As many have pointed out, it would just give the owners more revenue. More revenue sharing would be good with me. The Yankees shouldn’t be able to keep all the revenue from their TV network when they only provide half of the show.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Dec 23, 2008 11:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i don’t get why people say a cap would give the owners more money.
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the thinking is
If the cap were set at, say, $120 million, and the Yankees are taking in revenue of $180 million, the owners would keep the difference.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How wouldn't it?
I really don’t get this line of thinking. I remember reading this past week that MLB players make a smaller percentage of total team revenue than NBA or NFL players do. If you lower player salaries, overall team revenue isn’t going to go down, especially in cases of large markets like NY and Boston. And if that money can’t be spent, the owners just wind up with more.
I hate it when people say that “nobody is worth $160 million” or garbage like that. You just want to limit the amount of money a player can make? That’s not how free market economy works. The market determines what the players make.
I’m all for more revenue sharing. I don’t know why you think the Yankees don’t make money off of their network, unless you have some sources I don’t. They share about 20% of that revenue, from what I remember. Bump it up to 50% and things get a lot more fair.
There are two other problems with a “salary cap”. First, you have to have a salary floor if you have a salary cap. So the Marlins would have to go out and get their $20 mil payroll up to about what, $60 mil? How would that work?
Secondly, why would the players agree to a salary cap? More revenue sharing wouldn’t diminish their salaries, a salary cap would.
I think most of the calls for a salary cap are fueled by the misconception that baseball players are overpaid relative to other sports. They are not.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Dec 24, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could respond how would it?
Your first statement that MLB players receive a smaller percentage of revenue than the NBA or NFL contradicts the idea that owners would just wind up with more. A salary cap doesn’t lower player salaries either. In fact the percentage of revenue can be bumped up for players and MLB as a whole would be more profitable in my estimation.
I never said or suggested that any player isn’t worth whatever he can get ethically. I never said or suggested that I want to limit how much money a player can make and I don’t see how a salary cap would do that.
And here’s a bolt from the blue – the US isn’t remotely close to a free market economy. MLB isn’t and doesn’t try. They even get special treatment from the government to violate laws that others have to follow. I’d say it would be better described as a cartel.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about a salary cap, especially that it would mean less money for players.
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see how a salary cap would do this.
If you can figure out a way to keep percentage of player salaries at a same percentage of total revenue and increase overall baseball revenue, I would be okay with it. I don’t think you can. I think it would suppress salaries and owners would end up with more of the cash. I’d rather have that with the players. Overall, it’s just a difference in opinion.
I understand that baseball in general is nothing like a free market. However, as it presently works, the market determines how much a player is paid. The market overvalues some players (Juan Pierre) and undervalues others (Mark Ellis). That’s what I’m referring to. If you put a salary cap in place, you’re changing the value of the players with an outside factor.
If you give each team a similar amount of money to work with through more revenue sharing, you solve the problem without creating another one, in my opinion. It’s pointed out below that owners would probably have to concede some team control of young players to get a salary cap, which would create a new competitive disadvantage for small market teams. And if the money available for each team is similar, then the market can determine fair value for a player, which doesn’t hurt the players at the expense of the owners. And it turns out much fairer that way, I think.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Dec 24, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would do it the same way the NFL does it. That’s the easy part. There are innumerable factors that go into valuing players in free agency. You can keep or abandon any or all of them but having more revenue go to players while limiting the total a single team can pay is hardly anti-market.
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your line of thinking...
Is a little bit off base too. If salary caps decrease player revenue as a total percentage of revenue, then why do the NBA and NFL both have caps and higher player revenue as percentage.
But maybe you are onto something. I always thought the tyranny of the players union and a lack of cohesion among owners prevented an MLB cap. The actual prevention may be that owners are better off without one. Attanasio wants the cap because, within limits, he is in this to win it. He wants to compete with the Yanks without losing money. He can make money, but wants a fair system. Perhaps with the luxury tax and present revenue sharing along with no salary floor, smaller market teams that try to compete via youth or do not care to compete (I’m looking at you, Pittsburgh), make money. It’s the Brewers, who want to keep the players they develop, who suffer.
by Rawiswar on Dec 24, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt there would ever be a salary cap in MLB, really do. I wish they could make a price ceiling for teams in terms of per year spending, but who would agree with that? Certainly not the player’s association who’d like their big names to get 8 year $180M contracts.
Salary Cap/Price Ceiling = Never Ever Forever Never
by Lavender on Dec 24, 2008 12:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
???
How would it not help the Brewers? Just because they still can’t reach $100 million for instance isn’t the issue. It is that nobody else could EXCEED $100 million. That helps teams like the Brewers, at least somewhat.
I am typcially a player’s guy…they are the show, give them the money. However, to be honest, I really don’t care where the money goes. If the owners get richer, so be it, as long as the product on the field is fairer than it currently is.
by badgermaniac on Dec 24, 2008 1:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mark, Mark, Mark... /shakes head
Fact of the matter is a salary cap won’t help. The Yankees revenue comes from being the biggest investor in the largest cable channel in the New York Area. Give us a Brewers Cable Channel (or just buy the FSN North network), and you’ll at least have a revenue stream to be competitive.
I just sit back and root for the taser
by Hyatt on Dec 24, 2008 7:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hyatt, Hyatt, Hyatt
Yankees revenue comes from getting a billion and a fraction park to play in and sell seats to. I’ll bet if you peel away the layers to the YES network, you’ll find more taxpayer subsidies.
The Brewers already get a revenue stream from FSN. If they increase ratings they’d make more money, but SE Wisconsin will never be the media market that the NY area is.
Personally, I wonder how many firms that got money in the ginormous banking bailout will have blocks of seats in that new stadium.
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pete
You can’t tell me owning their own Regional Sports Network (as the Redsox do with NESN, the Orioles do with MASN, etc.) does not generate a huge amount of revenue. The Yes Network broadcasts and generates revenue from the Nets, and the Islanders in addition to the Yankees. Why couldn’t the Brewers can’t do something similar with the Bucks?
I just sit back and root for the taser
by Hyatt on Dec 24, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's the Bucks
:)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like it might. I was just pointing out that Yankees revenue is supported in part by taxpayer subsidies.
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It generates a ton of money,
However, the Yankees have a HUGE market. While the Brewers have lots of fans, it is still a fragile market. It would be a very risky investment to make in Milwaukee. You need consistent winning to make the network work. Even If it does work out, it will boost revenue, but by how much? The Yankees are not able to spend tons of money because of the YES Network. It definitely helps, but the Yanks were controlling MLB money long before the YES Network was introduced in 2002.
by tcyoung on Dec 24, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree that a cap wouldn't be as effective immediately in MLB as it has been...
… in other professional sports, I do think it would help eventually. The disparity in income is so huge right now that the cap would probably have to be set at a team salary level that’s unattainable for most of the teams (say 100 million or more). But if the cap is set there and left at that level until 75% of the teams come within 10% of the cap, it would likely remain at the original level for a decade or so. By simple inflation and escalation of the national TV contracts, over time a stagnant cap would slowly make the playing field more level.
About 10 years ago when MLB abandoned the cap as a goal of their CBA negotiations, the larger market teams, including the Yankees, had agreed to more extensive revenue sharing IF a cap were put into effect through the CBA and if there was a salary floor to prevent teams from running a 20 million dollar roster out onto the field and pocketing the rest of the shared revenue. While that agreement was only hypothetical and some of the parties who agreed to it are gone, more extensive revenue sharing working in combination with a cap/floor can be a long term solution to MLB’s competition problem.
The notion that Attanasio and the Brewers can create a Brewers network and compete with the revenue streams generated by YES is laughable. The Yankees aren’t out-earning the competition by being better businessmen (at least not only for that reason). They have access to markets and assets that no other team has and never will have.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 24, 2008 8:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
The replies previous to yours are shockingly wrong-headed. In the same season that we lose Sabathia and the Yankees sign Tex and Burnett, it is time to talk about both greater revenue sharing and a salary cap.
The fact is that the Crew can run the best franchise in baseball and still be nowhere near the neighborhood of revenue of the Yankees or other large market teams.
A salary cap without revenue sharing and some sort of agreement that ties the cap to a percentage of overall revenue is unfair to both smaller market teams and the players. But to say that a salary cap is not the solution is to ignore the parity that the NFL and to a lesser degree the NBA have been able to create.
This is a structural problem inherent to baseball because so much more of the revenue in baseball comes from local TV deals than in the NFL, which can distribute its national deal throughout.
If the Yankees had to pay for shockingly bad personnel decisions (Pavano, Igawa), then baseball would be much more fair. Instead, they can be dumb and, as long as they have money, still win.
This offseason is what makes baseball hard to follow and your teams hard to root for. Anyway in hell Brett Favre stays a Packer without a salary cap and revenue sharing for 15 years?
The players union is too powerful and the large market owners throw the smaller ones under the bus.
/pissed
by Rawiswar on Dec 24, 2008 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I would do
2010 Salary Cap – $140 million
2010 Salary Floor – $25 million
2012 Salary cap – $140 million
2012 Salary floor – $50million
2015 Salary cap – $150 million
2015 salary floor – $75 million
If a team goes over the cap they pay dollar for dollar match into revenue sharing. If a team does not pay to the floor, they contribute the balance to revenue sharing,
by grant76 on Dec 24, 2008 8:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time getting worked up over it
Having all that revenue mostly means (to me, anyway) that you can buy your way out of your mistakes. As the Yankees have shown, having all that cash has advantages, but hardly guarantees a championship.
To me, it makes sense for sports with little in the way of player development to have a salary cap. I’m thinking mostly about the NFL, which has no minor leagues save a “practice squad,” and contracts are not guaranteed (Jeff Suppan should thank his lucky stars that he’s in baseball). It’s all about spending money on free agents. My Dolphins have a 1-win season last year? No problem - you get yourself a Joey Porter, a Chad Pennington, and [poof] you’re a 10-win team vying for the AFC East. The NBA seems to be the same way: other than the somewhat rare trade, the only way to really improve your team is by spending money (i.e., on free agents), so a salary cap would help.
In baseball, though, you have minor leagues, and windows of control, so no matter how much Prince Fielder may want to leave Milwaukee, he’s stuck here unless we trade him for the next few years (neener neener neener). There are avenues you can take to build a competitive team, kind of like what we’re doing now. A smart organization that can avoid bad signings (cough Jeff Suppan cough) can create a playoff-worthy team; the ones that can’t, like Montreal, tend to go to a city that can. Heck, the Marlins, of all teams, have 2 World Series wins.
I dunno - I guess I like the idea of revenue sharing more than salary caps. If a team can generate the money, putting an artificial limit on how much they can spend seems wrong. And why shouldn’t an organization that signs a bad deal with FSN be penalized for that deal? (Rambling Al, I know you agree with this.) Through luxury taxes and revenue sharing (wait, Rambling Al, where did you go? Come back!), everyone else can stay competitive - maybe we could tweak the system some. I dunno, maybe lower the rate at which the luxury tax hits, or extend the window before players become free agents. Personally, I like the idea of combining 70% of all TV/radio revenue from each into one pot and distributing it back evenly to all the teams: it gives an incentive to spend money without leaving the other franchises in the dust.
OK, I’m done now. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 8:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What’s your guess at the odds of the Brewers winning the WS this year? Same question on the Yankees?
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course they're not equal
If I thought they were equal, I probably wouldn’t have listed changes I’d like to see made. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the word equal. What do you think though, Yanks maybe a 1 in 3 or 4 chance and Brewers somewhere around 1 in 40?
by ol Pete on Dec 24, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1 in 3?
For a team that finished third in its own division (and only 3 games out of fourth) and missed the playoffs? Nah.
(Keep in mind, CC is going from the marshmallow-soft AL Central, where his ERA was 3.83 despite routinely pitching against the Tigers and Royals, to the AL East. Admittedly, he’s not facing his new team, and his numbers of the past few seasons are better than 3.83. Still, I’d be surprised if he finished 2009 with an ERA under 4. I’m looking forward to the grousing by Yankee fans.)
I dunno…I don’t think the Yankees will win 100 games next season, if only because they play in a tough, tough division. I’d say their odds are maybe 1 in 10.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the yankees odds are 1-10
Then the crew is 1-100
by Rawiswar on Dec 24, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only bargaining chip the owners have
to get a salary cap is to give up the 6 years of team control over young players. If I were negotiating the deal, in addition to a salary floor that is within 20% of the cap, I would ask that the rookie year be based on a rookie minimum, with years two and three arb years after which the player hits free agency. And anything more than 45 days on the 40 man roster fulfills the rookie year.
by Getting Yosted on Dec 24, 2008 9:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What if players are no longer drafted out of high school?
If you’re giving up 6 years of control, you’ll want to draft older, more polished players. The minor leagues would not be affiliated with the majors. After High school, the players would sign with a minor league club or go to college for four years. Then they would get drafted by a major league club, ready to hit the majors.
by tcyoung on Dec 24, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the players union ever goes for a cap.
It would take the destruction of baseball, combined with scab players.
I think losing player control earlier- perhaps a restricted free agent thing like the NFL does, would be a good idea to give players their value.
by Rawiswar on Dec 24, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
might need a salary cap
It is getting a little crazy the kind of contract that the yanks are give players this season. If it keeps on going the Yanks will have a 2 billion payroll for the players on the team this season.
by tyr on Dec 24, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Actually their payroll is set to be less in 2009 than it was last year
Since they had almost $90 million in expiring contracts.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Dec 24, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that assumes
that they are done signing players
September 15: Not a bad little Monday
by molitorfan on Dec 25, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing about all of this business is the timing:
because 1) I’ve got the holidays to distract me; and 2) I’ll have time to chill out about before pitchers and catchers report.
I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 24, 2008 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cap or not,
the Jays and the Crew got ripped off big time, and their has to be some way to insure these things don’t happen even without introducing a cap. Losing one year of picks to make your team (outside of injury) undeniably better for 5-6 years is a win win for the Yanks, while us and the Jays get punched in the face. Fix it. This makes the Sabbathia trade a far worse deal because of forces the Brewers had no control over, and when an organization makes all, or close to all, the right moves they shouldn’t be penalized because the big kid on the block has unlimited spending power.
Well, that’s about as mad as I can get when their are Jimmy Stewart movies on all the time.
by Braunstalker on Dec 24, 2008 8:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy Stewart
is a die-hard Yankees fan.
“G-g-g-g-go Y-y-yankees!”
Hmmm…Can I apologize for that in the same post, or do I need a wholly separate one?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude loved the hell out of
Reagan too, but he’s dead, and made great movies.
by Braunstalker on Dec 25, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
























