"The Angels had a better record than us and the Blue Jays, and the Brewers and the Blue Jays got...

"The Angels had a better record than us and the Blue Jays, and the Brewers and the Blue Jays got shoved down the food chain. The Elias rankings have never been changed, and there are so many smart statistical gurus -- Bill James, etc. -- that could create a fair model for both players and teams, who should be compensated fairly according to the value of each player to that team. Last year, Geoff Jenkins, who had a nice career with us and was arguably one of our better players, was not even ranked last year, and Tony Graffanino, a part-time player, was ranked. We have dropped 46 slots in the 2009 draft, and we will be dropping even more because there are so many compensation picks. The second round will be almost the third round, in the way that it will develop."

"The Yankees will lose some draft picks, but they can draft unsignable players in fourth and fifth rounds, and pay over-slot, as they did with Andrew Brackman (the Yankees' No. 1 pick in 2007).

"The Draft Elias rankings and compensation needs to be changed. I do not want to sound like I'm whining, but teams who have to build with draft picks get frustrated. I had interest in Juan Cruz, and because I thought we had extra first-round picks for CC and for Ben Sheets, I had considered a Type A signing. Now I have to reconsider."

"We will keep having fun with scouting and player development, and finding our role players. Brian [Cashman] has to do what his owners and market asks him to do."

Doug Melvin e-mail to Buster Olney

11 months ago TheJay 18 comments 0 recs |

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Comments

DM makes it sound like Sheets is already gone.

by grant76 on Dec 24, 2008 12:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he?

There’s even less incentive to go after him now than there was before the Texeira signing, since the compensatory pick they get (assuming it’s a 1) will be even more important.

I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 24, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But

Sheets is the only top free agent we can sign without losing a pick.

by tcyoung on Dec 24, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not really

if we don’t sign sheets, we get two extra picks. if we do sign sheets, we don’t get those picks.

I see what you mean, but in practice, signing Sheets could actually be worse than signing another Type A — with another Type A, we lose our first rounder. If we sign Sheets, we gain another team’s first or second-rounder (unless it’s the yankees), PLUS a supplemental pick.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 24, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like your train of thought

I prefer what engineers call the “Do-Nothing” Option. We don’t sign Sheets or any other Type A guy. If we’re still in the race come the All-Star Break, we make a trade for an Ace, much like last year.

by tcyoung on Dec 24, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Cruz would have been an intresting pick up.

by Trent Durrington on Dec 24, 2008 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but we don't need a cap, remember?

I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 24, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good point

about “unsignable” players.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 24, 2008 1:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yes, and I'm surprised teams don't do it more

but…you know, we can pay overslot, too. (And do, sometimes.) Especially if, in a case such as this year, we don’t have the high picks we’d otherwise have. It’s kind of odd that Doug is (a) complaining about losing a high draft pick, and (b) complaining that other teams can make up for losing high draft picks … in a way the Brewers themselves have done.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 24, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At least someone in baseball is talking about the abortion this is Elias’ ratings.

by HRF on Dec 24, 2008 2:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This is more relevant to the Tex signing thread below...

but I figured it would be less likely to get lost here.

The Tex signing makes it MUCH less likely the Yanks will trade for Cam. Now they’ve got four players—Swisher, Nady, Damon, and Matsui—for three positions (LF, CF, RF). Doesn’t mean Cam wouldn’t make them better—he very well could—but that would make for an interesting clubhouse situation and even more millions than usual sitting on the Yankees bench.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Dec 24, 2008 3:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees would use one of the four at DH.

So it’s really four people for four spots right now. It still makes it unlikely, but if he goes, it’s really five people for four spots, and he is easily the best defensively.

Either way, Melvin made it pretty clear he wasn’t going to the Yanks anymore.

Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9

by NoahJ on Dec 24, 2008 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s a good platoon to be had in there.

by HRF on Dec 24, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know

in the past 3 days, theres been a lot of bitching from brewers management about the Yankees.

Guys, get over it. they operate their way, and you operate your way, and no amount of bitching will change this.

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 24, 2008 10:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It looks really bad when you whine in public

Doug and Mark had a great plan. When the Brewers traded away the top prospect for Sabathia, the plan was to make the playoffs and get a first rounder to replace him. That plan went from Brewers win/Indians win/Brewers win to Brewers win/Indians win/Brewers lose.

It was supposed to be the trade that made the Brewers relevant, yet didn’t sacrifice the future.

It seems like the bitterness comes from the fact that this was completely unexpected.

by tcyoung on Dec 25, 2008 1:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dougie

you made some good points but they were lost amongst some of the other nonsense you spewed. Maybe the Angels had a better record than us because Tex is a really good player who warrants a high pick if he leaves. With this logic, the Orioles could complain that they should receive the highest compensatory pick since they had a terrible record and lost Daniel Cabrera. Also, if you state that you don’t want to sound like you’re whining, it is usually because you are whining. I think we all agree that the Elias system could be improved upon, or at the very least be more transparent. The point could have been made by relying more on facts and less on emotions. Next time sound more like a GM and less like a child who thinks that his sibling got a better Christmas present than him.

September 15: Not a bad little Monday

by molitorfan on Dec 25, 2008 7:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

His criticism of the Elias rankings is misplaced...

at least in terms of this situation. If he switched to a Bill James’ ranking, Win Shares, Texeira would still out-rank Sabbathia. The Elias rankings are far from ideal and come up with strange results sometimes, but the Elias result wasn’t the main culprit here. Generally, a top position player is likely to be more valuable in terms of production than a top pitcher. To the extent the result is unfair, the issue is the rule itself. I suppose one could argue that the Brewers knew this risk when they traded for Sabbathia. The same thing would have happened if Sabbathia had signed with a team which had a protected first round pick.

by clack on Dec 25, 2008 9:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he's criticizing the player rankings

He’s thinking team rankings should have something to do with it.

by tcyoung on Dec 25, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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NL Central Standings

	W	L	PCT	GB	STRK
St. Louis Viva El Birdos	91	71	.561	0	Lost 6
Chicago Bleed Cubbie Blue	83	78	.515	7.5	Lost 1
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Houston The Crawfish Boxes	74	88	.456	17	Lost 3
Pittsburgh Bucs Dugout	62	99	.385	28.5	Lost 2