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Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

Community Prospect Rankings: Voting for #5

So Angel Salome edged out Brett Lawrie for #4. Here are the nominees for #5:

Lorenzo Cain, OF

Rankings:
Brewerfan.net Power 50: 8
John Sickels: 7
Baseball Prospectus: 6

Age: 22
Seasons in minors: 4
Top level reached in 2008: AAA

2008 Statistics:
Nashville (AAA): 19 AB, .158/.273/.158
Huntsville (AA): 148 AB, .277/.363/.486
Brevard County (A+): 317 AB, .287/.358/.448

Taylor Green, 3B

Rankings:
Brewerfan.net Power 50: 5
John Sickels: 14
Baseball Prospectus: NR (rankings ended at 11)

Age: 22
Seasons in minors: 3
Top level reached in 2008: A+

2008 Statistics:

Brevard County (A+): 418 AB, .289/.382/.443

Brett Lawrie, C

Rankings:
Brewerfan.net Power 50: 6
John Sickels: 3
Baseball Prospectus: 2

Age: 18
Seasons in minors: 0
Top level reached in 2008: Canadian Olympic Team

Did not appear in the minors in 2008

Jonathan Lucroy, C

Rankings:
Brewerfan.net Power 50: 7
John Sickels: 5
Baseball Prospectus: 8

Age: 22
Seasons in minors: 2
Top level reached in 2008: A+

2008 Statistics:
Brevard County (A+): 236 AB, .292/.364/.479
West Virginia (A): 239 AB, .310/.391/.510 

Jake Odorizzi, RHP

Rankings:
Brewerfan.net Power 50: 11
John Sickels: 8
Baseball Prospectus: 7

Age: 18
Seasons in minors: 1
Top level reached in 2008: Arizona (Rookie)

2008 Statistics:
AZL Brewers (Rookie): 20.2 IP, 3.48 ERA, 1.31 WHIP



Poll
Who is the Brewers #5 prospect?
Lorenzo Cain
18 votes
Taylor Green
16 votes
Brett Lawrie
103 votes
Jonathan Lucroy
48 votes
Jake Odorizzi
3 votes

188 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 19 comments

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Comments

Display:

KL, I remember this being said a while back

but have you considered possibly showing only the beginnings of posts on the front page? It would make it easier for comments on other posts (or other posts themselves) to not get buried so quickly.

Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9

by NoahJ on Dec 30, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I have considered it.

But it also makes it an extra click for people to read entire posts.

With that said, I guess I could start making the prospect rankings a “click through” exercise.

I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.

by KLSnow on Dec 30, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, now some real debate

I did not vote for Lowrie or Lucroy, but I can’t see putting Lawrie over LuCroy on potential alone. The guy hasn’t taken a swing in pro ball yet, and yet a guy at the same position in High A who posted an over .900 OPS (catcher no less) is getting fewer votes? Don’t get me wrong, I love Lowrie’s potential, but I also see 2 road blocks in front of him. who knows, we might have a Canadian Matt Weiters.

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 30, 2008 5:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was wondering about that

If Lawrie is really our 5th best prospect, our minors are in far worse shape that I thought.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 30, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's consider that thought for a moment

what superstar in waiting do we have? We’ve been pretty spoiled in the past 5-7 years with Prince, the dream of Rickie, JJ, YoGa, Braun. You have some pretty highly rated guys in there, not to mention the dearly departed from the system LaPorta. But now, the only one with potential of being a multiple year all-star is Jeffress, and he’s got more makeup issues than Tammy Fay Baker. I’m not sold on Escobar, Gamel, or even Salome being All-star quality. all 3 probably will be solid, but all have pretty substantial questions.

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 30, 2008 11:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I think it’s the absolute opposite problem. The potential is there, but they don’t have any sure things right now.

I’m going to have a little fun here:

Gamel: Could improve his defense to major league average and hit .300/.380/.500 every year, or could continue to suck at defense and top out around .270/.330/.400 as a first basemen or corner outfielder.

Escobar: Could undergo a Jose Reyes/Hanley Ramirez-like power spike and hit .300/.360/.480 and be an all-star with stellar D at short, or he could fail to hit in the majors and turn into Adam Everett.

Salome: Could stick at catcher and put up monster numbers, or he could falter to the BABIP gods and only be a .270/.320/.400 guy and have to move to left or get traded to the AL.

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Dec 31, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's possible

I guess this off-season has made me a little negative.

gamel I think will be alright, and solome could be something like a Max ramirez type, but i still am not sold on Escobar.

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 31, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know if I agree with that roguejim.

I think you might have a problem if you were drafting guys that weren’t one of your top few prospects once they entered the system.

Since these ranking are all about potential, I don’t have a problem if a guy who the Brewers valued as one of the top 20 amatuers last June is one of their top prospects. Baseball Prospectus and other scouting publications that do these lists usually always have the recent draft pick somewhere in the top 10.

Personally I voted for Lucroy for reasons that have been brought up already, but don’t think Lawrie is far off and wouldn’t fault anyone who voted from him at this spot, and more importantly don’t think it is any sort of bad implication on the Brewers system.

by Supertramp on Dec 31, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's probably

just how I consider the term “prospect.” I see a prospect ranking like this as “who is the most likely to make it to the major league club,” and then further sorted as “who is going to have the biggest impact once they make the major league club.”

That’s why I can’t get behind the Lawrie movement, even though he has tons of potential: the minor leagues are littered with 1st round picks who get hurt, or who turn out to suck, or who decide to turn down baseball for a career in vaudeville (“Odor-izzi! Ha-cha-cha-chaaa!”). Too much can happen, a la Brad Nelson.

This isn’t a slight against Lowrie: with few exceptions, like Braun or YoGa, I don’t think I’d list any prospect below AA in the top 10. In a couple of years, though, I’d be sorely disappointed if Lawrie isn’t on the list.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 31, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe that statement

Please tell me you are talking about just the Brewers right now, and not generalizing with that below AA in the top 10 statement.

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 31, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't quite go with "no one below AA in the top 10"

But I could certainly live with it if the rule were “You can’t crack the top 10 in rookie ball.”

I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.

by KLSnow on Dec 31, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Lucroy for pretty much that reason...

I realize that upside matters, but even with a four-year age advantage I can’t get myself to vote for Lawrie this high at this point while we don’t even have one bit of evidence of how he’s going to play professionally.

And I’m not even primarily concerned about his offense; great hitter or not, if he can’t hack it at catcher defensively that’s going to deflate his value quite a bit, and there were questions about that issue when he was drafted. Meanwhile, Lucroy appears to be at least competent on defense, at least in the lowish minors.

by Zeyes on Dec 31, 2008 6:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn’t he hold his own at 2nd and 3rd? I remember when he was drafted some expert(s) talked about leaving him there as preferential. Or I could be misremembering.

by ol Pete on Dec 31, 2008 8:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some past scouting reports from various sources on Lawrie before the draft regarding position

From BA

Brett Lawrie, a product of Brookswood Secondary School in Langley, B.C. The MVP of Canada’s junior national team in 2007, Lawrie is one of the most gifted high school hitters in this draft. He has the ability to hit for power and average, along with an advanced approach and plate discipline for his age.
As with Hewitt, Lawrie doesn’t come without questions. It’s still uncertain what position he’ll play. The best-case scenario is catcher. Lawrie has the arm strength and soft enough hands to make it work behind the plate, but he’s also raw back there. Third base is another possibility, as is left field. Obviously, the lesser the position he plays, the more that will be expected out of his bat.

From SaberScouting

17. Brett Lawrie, C/UT, Brookswood HS (Canada)
Bio: 5′11, 200, Bats R, Throws R, 18 years old
The Skinny: Lawrie has a lot of helium headed into the days before the draft, but if you asked most scouts who saw him last summer, they may tell you that they saw this coming. The Canadian slugger has played catcher effectively and has showed big upside on offense and defense, flashing plus raw power and a plus arm behind the dish. He also has above-average speed, solid contact skills, plate discipline, and developing defensive skills behind the plate. Lawrie also is surprisingly refined at the pate for a Canadian prospect that hasn’t had as many at-bats as most elite American prep prospects. His advanced bat was made known to teams when he had a 21-for-30 hitting streak on one swing through spring training camps, and hit 3 homers in a double-header on another trip thorough camps, facing some extended spring and low-minors arms, but also some high-level arms, including extra base hits off of Luke Hochevar and Kyle Davies. Lawrie continues to allay fears of a minor league flameout with all-out makeup and some scouts think he may work too hard. The advanced bat and periodic loss of interest defensively may even push him off of catcher to speed up the path to the big leagues, but Lawrie could play almost anywhere on the field except shortstop. Toronto and Minnesota are known to have interest in the mid-first round.
Pros: Bat, Power, Arm
Cons: Raw Tools, Lack of competition
Comparison: Upside of Eric Byrnes or Russell Martin

From Takkle with video

A pure hitter with an intelligent and advanced approach to the game. The ball really gets off his bat with great life from gap to gap, thanks to his combination of strength and bat speed. He has yet to find a home defensively. Some still give him a chance to stay behind the plate, where his value would be best, while many are beginning to peg him as a second baseman.

The theme seems to be that he can be a catcher, but he’s athletic enough to play elsewhere

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 31, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

“… could play almost anywhere on the field except shortstop.” Quotes like that make me a bit light headed.

by ol Pete on Dec 31, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t mean to imply that he’d be headed for corner outfield or something like that (as Gamel might well be). But the gap in hitting ability between the average catcher and the average 3B is still quite large, so while Lawrie’s bat could make him a star at catcher with sufficient defensive skills, he might “only” be average or a bit above at third. That’s significant, and why I’d really like to see some evidence of how he’s going to perform first before I’d rank him above a guy like Lucroy who’s shown to have a fairly complete (if not earth-shattering) package at the same position.

Obviously if Lawrie hits like Piazza, his defense will matter very little and he’ll be given every opportunity to stick at C, but that’s also not a scenario I’m willing to simply take on faith. (From a college draftee maybe, but not from an 18-year old.)

Not that any of this means I’m down on Lawrie’s prospects or anything – if we end up with, say, a third baseman with average to above-average offense and defense I’ll be thrilled, of course – but when comparing him to players who are at least as high up on the defensive spectrum and have already proved something, I’d just like a little less uncertainty first.

by Zeyes on Dec 31, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Prospect number 5!

A little bit of Lorenzo in my life
A little bit of Lawrie by my side
A little bit of Lucroy as all I need
A little bit of Taylor is what I see

Hey, Carmichael, how does Prospect #5 like his eggs?
Well, I don’t know, Buster, how does Prospect #5 like his eggs?
Why, odor-izzi, of course!
Ha-cha-cha-chaaaa!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 31, 2008 7:55 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Jim

remember when we had that talk about discretion, valor, and the better parts of both?

I just sit back and root for the taser

by Hyatt on Dec 31, 2008 7:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nonsense

Discretion is for sissies.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 31, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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