Brewers Coverage

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 10:11 AM CDT Comment 26 comments

Hello those at BrewCrewBall. I intend for this not to be a troll post. I also wouldn't have started a FanPost but I really didn't know where else to ask this.

See, my issue--I'm a St. Louis Cardinal fan living in Milwaukee. Thankfully due to the world wide net web and increases in modern technology I don't have to work hard to get my day-to-day Redbird coverage. However, I still do follow some of the Brewer stuff since I am, well, here.

My question--thoughts on the Brewer media coverage? Personally, I've REALLY disliked Jim Powell since the very first day I heard him (maybe this should be more about Powell). I find him arrogant and extremely condescending to Brewer fans. It's like he talks down to them. He's also an ungodly homer who never questions anything Brewer but everything, everything else.

I do remember his ridiculous comments about Tony LaRussa thinking he was smarter than everyone else by batting the pitcher 8th. Does he still use those same comments and same tone towards Ned Yost now?

I realize I didn't like Powell from Day One so I do not judge him fairly. As for Uecker--fine. The TV guys are fine. I really think the Journal does a good job with the Brewer stuff and even the national MLB stuff. And I am glad blogs like this exist--it gives me faith in Brewer fans. I will be honest, I never got that feeling from Brewer fans in my early days going to games at Miller Park.

Now, to address this silly notion of tailgating at baseball games........ :)

I'm sorry if this post is in the wrong area or taking the wrong way. I just don't have many intelligent Brewer fans--yes they exist :) in my circle of friends.

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The enemy in our midst!

Well, I guess that’s OK. But you’re supposed to be in 4th place by now. C’mon, get with the program!

With the exception of Uecker —hey, everyone likes Bob Uecker -- I have exactly the opposite feeling on Brewers media. I like Jim Powell and Bob Uecker, and don’t really have a high regard for the rest of the coverage. I don’t dislike them, per se, but if you’re a media person, I think you’re obliged to be informative or entertaining. It’s not a really high standard, I don’t think.

For Jim Powell, I will say that there are plenty of people on the ol’ BCB who don’t like him. To be honest, I think over the past couple of years, he’s become more vocal of his opinions over the air, something I could do without. It seems to me he’s at his best doing the play-by-play and joking around with Ueck, offering his opinion only rarely. This newer Jim Powell, well, I can see why he rubs you the wrong way. He does it in a way that’s a little standoffish, too - like, this is what I think, and if you disagree, you’re wrong. Still and all, I think he does a good job.

To be honest, I think Tony La Russa DOES think he’s smarter than everyone else. I don’t think Powell has ever actually criticized Ned Yost about batting Kendall 9th, but no, he’s not a fan.

That’s an interesting thought: obviously Jim Powell isn’t going to be very critical of anything related to the organization or management decisions, but you’d think he’s be a little less combative when offering opinions on the air.

I don’t know much about Brewer fans in the early days of Miller Park, though I guess having multiple 90-some loss teams in Packer country isn’t going to inspire a lot of fandom.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Apr 16, 2008 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This line

To be honest, I think over the past couple of years, he’s become more vocal of his opinions over the air, something I could do without. It seems to me he’s at his best doing the play-by-play and joking around with Ueck, offering his opinion only rarely. This newer Jim Powell, well, I can see why he rubs you the wrong way. He does it in a way that’s a little standoffish, too – like, this is what I think, and if you disagree, you’re wrong. Still and all, I think he does a good job.

Seconded.

by KLSnow on Apr 16, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinal Fan

How long did you live in St. Louis, and how long have you lived in Milwaukee? Maybe it’s time to convert? ;)

I’m with roguejim, I also have the exact opposite opinions.

Tailgating is correct, and the ‘one true way.’ Uecker will go down in history as the best baseball announcer of all time, Powell is very good, not condescending at all, the TV guys are terrible, the journal-sentinel is only Ok (though Tom’s blog scores some great points), and brewer fans are awesome.

Perhaps you have some examples?

Also, I agree with roguejim again about LaRussa. He does think he’s smarter than everyone else. Kudos to Powell for calling it out. A big ego is usually exemplified by a me-first attitude. Calling out your players in the press is me-first stuff.

I just don’t have many intelligent Brewer fans—yes they exist :) in my circle of friends.

Are you saying that all brewer fans are not intelligent? ;)

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Apr 16, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

actually

I never lived in St. Louis. I grew up in “Cardinal country” in South Central Illinois. I’ve lived in Milwaukee about 6 years now. I like the city of Milwaukee quite a bit. It’s better/different than I expected. I don’t like the colder winters and LOONNGGG springs—but anyway.

Re: tailgating—I just never saw it done for baseball games. Of course almost all the baseball stadiums I have been to had actual restaurants, shops, places to go, etc. nearby instead of just a huge concrete parking lot. Maybe it was meant to be that way because Wisconsinites love the tailgating so much. Again, I don’t like the way Miller Park is set up but I realize I am probably in the minority.

Football tailgate-go for it. Baseball, no. Again, just my opinion. If you go to games in other cities you won’t see many people tailgating-if at all.

Re: Brewer fans. I have found that fans who attend the games are often there for the “event” and less for the game and the nuances (this isn’t just a Milwaukee thing). I just used to grow tired of the only thing I heard at a Brewer game was “Cardinals SUUCCCKKK”. It got old. Of course, now that the Brewers are better it has changed some. Milwaukee is a football town first. St. Louis is a baseball town first. It’s just little nuances like that. St. Louis is a crappy football town. It’s just the subtle differences between the two places.

At Miller I feel most people are there to 1. tailgate 2. hang out 3. drink beer 4. watch the Brewers. That isn’t true in other cities (again, just my feeling).

Powell just seems to talk down to his audience. I will say he is VERY informed, does his homework, and calls the actual game well. It’s the other stuff I can do without. I get it Jim—you are smart. He says things that any baseball fan knows, yet Jim acts like he is enlightening the ignorant masses.

I don’t think Uecker will go down as one of the “best” announcers of all time—but probably one of the most “entertaining”. There is a difference. His actual PxP of the game is pretty bad (much like Mike Shannon in STL who everyone there loves).

I am also used to growing up with Jack Buck who was the absolute, 100% best there ever was so it’s a tough comparison.

Anyway, I agree, the TV guys seem to be OK—I liked Sutton and wish he hadn’t left. I think Tom does a very good job on the day-to-day stuff and there is a lot of baseball coverage in the Journal. I like that.

Sorry to take up time with this. Thanks for listening/reading/whatever :)

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I can't stand Mike Shannon...

But maybe that’s just me.

by KLSnow on Apr 16, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope

Not just you :)

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

some help.

tailgating. grilling out, having beers, in the great outdoors with some friends. it’s fabulous. cramming into a crowded restaurant bar to get a $9 beer and no food. it’s horrible. I love the city atmosphere of some of the great ballparks, but the fact that they don’t facilitate tailgating is not a knock on tailgating. ya’know?

regarding fans. yeah, some suck. ever go to wrigley, or yankee stadium? everyone, and i mean everyone, has the exact same criticism of fans in the home ballpark. “it seems like they aren’t interested in the game.” it’s not even close to unique in miller park.

milwaukee is a baseball town first, trust me on that one. one good indication of that is the amount of coverage in the journal-sentinel. which, you’re right, is nice (volume-wise, anyway).

the tv guys are terrible, really, they are cliche machines.

it never seems to me that powell is talking down to his audience. do you have any examples? is it just cause he is a smart guy that you get that sense? you’ve not heard enough uecker. the way he can tell a story and weave the call of the game together? brilliant. his play by play is (maybe ‘was’ is more appropriate) fantastic. seperating entertainment and baseball play by play is something a jack buck fan would do. :) seriously though, i heard a bunch of buck growing up, we can pick up the st.louis radio station some nights in milwaukee, or could anyway, and he was definitely a great baseball announcer. great football announcer too. he didn’t get in the way of the game. no disrespect to buck, but uecker’s knowledge of baseball is unparalleled here, and it’s really an entirely different experience. seriously, it only took uecker 23 years to reach the radio hall of fame.

all this preferential boringness aside… how did you choose the cardinals growing up? did you have friends who were reds fans, and others who were white sox or cubs fans, maybe some even that were royals fans? without a hometown team, how do people choose? that to me is an interesting conversation.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Apr 16, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, yeah

what you said about tailgating. And as for baseball or football first, I don’t think it matters. If the Rams were a perennial power, and the Cards were usually not good, then they would be football first. A lot of this area’s football affection has been driven by Favre.

by ol Pete on Apr 16, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just

Dont like tailgating for baseball. Not sure why—maybe because I’ve never done it. I’m there for the game first (not that tailgaters aren’t).

I grew up about an hour and half away from St. Louis. They were the “closest” MLB team to my hometown. All the games were on the local radio and then TV. I would say where I grew up is 70% Cardinal fans, 25% Cub and about 5% White Sox. Now I went to college a bit farther north and that percentage came closer to 50% but still probably 60% Cardinal, the rest Cub. It was amazing-there was basically ZERO White Sox presence anywhere. Cubs yes, even Reds a little but White Sox-no way.

Regarding a “baseball” town—I just don’t see the # of baseball diamonds in Milwaukee you see in the greater St. Louis area. The local talent isn’t as good. People don’t play it as much. Maybe it’s a climate thing I don’t know. I think the football “knowledge” is greater here than STL while the opposite could be said about baseball. Of course Im writing this on a Brewers blog where intelligent fans go so it’s not exactly the best forum to make my point :)

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

cool.

so closest town wins out. makes sense. i’m fascinated by the state border jumping that happens though. i guess i’m more curious about places like iowa and nebraska.

You’ve NEVER tailgated? have you ever been to a backyard barbeque? did you like that experience?

the internets are cool aren’t they? i found 25 baseball/softball diamonds in st. louis and 27 in milwaukee. i don’t think the # of baseball diamonds represents anything though.

as for local talent, for players who debuted between 1969-2006 (years the brewers have been in milwaukee) it’s 1.5% from missouri and 1.0% from wisconsin. raw numbers 97 to 60.

i can’t imagine that one person could accurately judge the sports IQ of an entire metropolitan area based on their observations. but i’m certainly not going to begrudge you your belief that st. louis is a better baseball town than milwaukee. to each their own i say. best of luck tonight, should be a ‘meh’ game.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Apr 16, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i admit

All my information is anecdotal and based on personal experiences. (regarding baseball playing, baseball knowledge, etc.) When I am “back home” I hang around great and informed Cardinal fans-so I am sure biased in that way. In Milwaukee its not the same. Also, my dad was a Cardinal fan-I usually went that way (Dallas Cowboys in NFL for example).

I never meant to say I could accurately judge a sports IQ of an entire area and didn’t mean to come off as I did. Again, only speaking from my experiences. And, of course, I’m on a brewers blog that would tend to skew one way.

Agreed on tonight. Most Cardinal games have been “meh” but they have been wins so I will take it.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no worries

sometimes the best we can do is speak from experience, and then it boils down to the quality of the company we keep. Maybe your brewer fan friends are pretending to be dumb just to give you a hard time, like your own personal purgatory, because they saw your SBNation profile:

Nothing major here. Cardinal fan living in God-forsaken Brewer country.

;)

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Apr 16, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's interesting

I remember looking at % from state numbers a few years ago, but that was before I got into the college stuff.

I’m a little surprised that WI isn’t a little more substantial … I don’t have the time to check right now, but I think there are quite a few more NCAA baseball programs in WI than in MO, though fewer D1 schools. I think there’s a comparable amount of affiliated minor league baseball in WI, and I don’t know whether there’s a MO equivalent of the Northwoods League—I don’t think so; at least not at that level, as I think the Northwoods league is the 2nd or 3rd best (talent-wise) collegiate summer league.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 16, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the NW League is great

It is ranked about #3 right now in the summer circuit (behind Cape and Alaska). I love going over to Madison for some games. Plus it’s neat to see some “prospects” occasionally.

Wisconsin has just the one D1 program at UWM while Missouri has SLU, Missouri State (CWS a few years back), SEMO, UMKC, and Mizzou (a top 25 program). Also Missouri has a lot more D2 programs than Wisconsin (only Parkside). Wisconsin has the state D3 league which helps at that level. I would guess there are alot more Missouri residents on D1 and D2 rosters but again, I don’t have the data in front of me.

Now, when talking St. Louis it is as much an “Illinois” city as it is a “Missouri” city. Look at the Border War hoops game and the recently started football game. The crowd is always 50/50 (Mizzou/Illinois) in the Savvis Center and TWA Dome for those events.

Milwaukee has the advantage of being the only pro city in the state and thus draws everything. In Missouri you have Kansas City basically splitting the state in half (althought I don’t know if the fan base is half Royals).

For those who haven’t been to a Madison Mallards game I highly recommend it.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 16, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CommonCensus

http://www.commoncensus.org/sports.php

The subject of where team “boundaries” are intrigues me too. I like that for all the major sports, there is quite a distinct line right at the Wisconsin/Illinois border. Sad to say it is slightly above it in most cases. I’m also impressed that Eau Claire remains a Brewers area and not a Twins area.

You can also see on these maps how every metro area with two teams really favors one. The A’s, White Sox, Mets, Raiders, and Jets have virtually no territory to themselves.

Before seeing these maps, I always wondered why there were so many Braves fans. The answer is simple: The Braves are the only baseball team in the south! They’ve got a huge swath of territory.

If you haven’t voted, please do. The Brewers need your support! (There is also the main CommonCensus page in which you identify with cities and regions, which is another interesting subject.)

Go Brewers!

by craigholl on Apr 17, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome thanks

i was actually looking for that exact map/website yesterday.

also, tbs, and wgn.

the cubs and braves have fans who have no business being cubs and braves fans other than the fact that they were always on tv. i think that is how you end up with the ‘fanatics.’ those who are so far away from their ‘home’ club that they try extra hard to prove their ‘loyalty.’

it’s a weird oedipus-type complex.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Apr 17, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Iowa

Iowa:

There’s minor league teams in Iowa in Des Moines, Davenport, Clinton, Cedar Rapids and Burlington, representing the Cubs, Twins, Rangers (right now), Angels and Royals, so each of those teams generate some fans from that relationship, with the exception of the Rangers, who have only been in Clinton for a handful of years. The Omaha Royals are also right across the border in Nebraska.

Eastern Iowa, where I live now, is Cubs country without a doubt, but we’re probably only about 150-200 miles from Chicago. Central Iowa, where I used to live, is split pretty evenly between Cubs and Cards.

by KLSnow on Apr 17, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Davenport's minor league team...

...is actually the Cardinals affiliate. But it’s changed so often in recent years that I don’t think that it provides much of an affiliation boost. The Quad Cities is generally split between the Cubs, Cards and Sox anyways – Sox a bit more prevalent on the Illinois side in Rock Island, Cubs a bit more prevalent on the Iowa side.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Apr 18, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Powell's PBP

and that’s 98 percent of his work, so all in all, combined with Uck, that’s a pretty nice combo.

Miller Park isn’t that way due to Wisconsite’s desire to tailgate, its because of available land. I’m not sure how anyone can not like tailgating.

As for LaRussa, my impression is that he is smart, but would do anything to win, including cheating.

by ol Pete on Apr 16, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My take

I am also not a fan of powell, or Schroeder (if he says he didn’t do too much with it). Uek is a national treasure, though losing his ability to judge fly balls, and does get a little senile every now and then. BA is alright, better than sutton, nowhere in the league of Vasgersian, but hey, not everyone can be gus johnson.

The big allure of tailgating is getting hammered at reasonable rates. Plus, proving your grilling acumen is really a sign of manhood that it fun to flaunt. I would not want to spend a saturday afternoon anywhere else than the Miller Park Parking lot grilling up some brats, hamburgers, and drinking down a case of Miller Lite.

by Hyatt on Apr 16, 2008 7:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

'getting hammered at reasonable rates'

That ought to be a signature, a slogan, or maybe the libertarian party platform.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 16, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm. Nader, maybe?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Apr 16, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I try to keep my politics off of this site, but...

no no no no no no no!

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 17, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If anyone is going to have a slogan with "reasonable rates" in it

it’ll be Ralph Nader.

Or maybe the porn star who ran for governor of California last time out, Mary Carey.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

I take it you’re not the same Beanocook who posts over at Baseballthinkfactory and is a Brewers fan?

My head is spinning right now. :)

by Zeyes on Apr 16, 2008 10:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Insanity

This is an interesting post, but then you go an ruin it by revealing your clear insanity. Only sociopaths don’t like tailgaiting.

And as far as the Miller Park crowd being at the game for the “event”... uh yeah, that’s what 95% of all baseball crowds are like. That’s why baseball is great – there are 81 a year in a major league town, every game is not life and death, and its great to have people come out for a variety of reasons.

I guess I disagree with the entirety of your post – glad you like Milwaukee though.

by redtiger on Apr 18, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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