from DRays Bay:

Talk about a tale of two seasons. Butler had arguably the best numbers of a very talented Columbus Catfish staff, but got called up to Vero Beach toward the end of June and simply got rocked, missed nearly a month of starts, came back and was slightly more effective.

The University of San Diego product was a surprise 2nd-rounder in 2006, as his draft stock had been falling in concert with his productivity, which sparked concerns over his durability. At his best, Butler throws a low-90s fastball with good sinking actions as well as two serviceable breaking pitches and a changeup. But something really got out of whack in Vero Beach: In 49 innings there, he allowed 9 homeruns. In his previous 357 innings(combined college and pro), he allowed a total of 13.

Before the 2006 draft, BaseballAmerica mentioned that a taxing delivery might be to be blame for his decline over the course of his junior year. The report was that he didn’t incorporate his lower body enough, and that’s practically inviting an arm injury. Judging from the poor 2nd-half statistics and the time missed, I’d say the concerns over his delivery are as alive as ever. Part of the decline can be chalked up to being promoted a level, but the sharp HR rate increase makes me think it’s something else, such as not finishing on his delivery and leaving more balls up.

2007 was the second straight year Butler underwhelmed toward the end. I can probably be accused of saying this too much, but I think it applies to Butler perhaps more than anyone: I think he should make a move to the bullpen. If it is a durability issue, limiting his innings could help. Also, if efforts are made to clean up his delivery, pitching in shorter spurts might allow him to better focus on incorporating those changes.

Then again, perhaps his poor finish was a result of the injury(I can’t for the life of me find out why he missed those 3-4 starts). He was dominant in his final outing(7 innings, 2 hits, 7 strikeouts), so it might be best to see if a fully healthy Butler can be successful in Vero Beach as a starter. Either way, VB is almost certain to be where he opens 2008, and he’s still got plenty to prove.

you have to preserve those 14 pitches somehow

I dunno what to think about this but at first glance, I don’t care for it. No sir.

but I can’t fault them. Our minor league pitching is fairly unimpressive as of late (whatever happened to Inman?...ahem) and we already have a logjam of extra outfielders, not to mention LaPorta.

Gross doesn’t really have a place on the team with Gwynn and Kapler both healthy (not to mention Dillon as an IF/OF), and they probably weren’t going to get much more for him. Good luck to him in Tampa.

Is there a market for Gabe Kapler? He has an OPS of over 1.2 and, well, he’s Gabe Kapler.

How can Gross be worth so little? Slow start notwithstanding, he can have a mini-Jenkins career, bashing against RHP and struggling against LHP. He’s not worth more than a guy with an ERA over 6 in A ball?

Gross had a lot of it. Almost no other Brewers do. As pointed out in the bf.net discussion of the trade (link below), Gross had 10 of the team’s 51 walks.

http://brewersfandemonium.yuku.com/sreply/332592/t/Gabe-Gross-traded-Tampa-Bay—minor-league-pitcher-Josh-But.html

The last week and a half there have been a lot of complaints about Gross playing so much. Why the switch all of a sudden?

The way I look at it is that Gross didn’t have a huge upside and we get a 2nd round player with at least some upside. Gross had a great eye, but TGjr is more valuable.

If this guy makes it too the majors and has some success, this trade would have been worth it.

Butler reached high Class A in his first full pro season, continuing to show filthy stuff even after a sprained thumb cost him three weeks starting in mid-July. The 47th overall pick in 2006, he had his pro debut cut short by biceps tendinitis. His arm strength returned last season, and he has one of the best repertiores among Tampa Bay pitching prospects. Butler owns a 92-95 fastball with outstanding movement, including late sinking action. He also has an overhand curveball with tight spin and a hard, sharp slider. His changeup continues to show improvement, though he tends to abandon the pitch too readily. The Rays like Butler’s competitive streak and his work ethic. He simply needs innings against better competition so he can become more consistent with with his changeup and his release. Tampa Bay has worked with him to incorporate his legs more in his delivery. He’ll open the season back in class A and should move up to Double-A at some point in 2008.

Obviously a lot more optimistic. But I like guys that can be effective while doing their job. And it doesn’t really boost my hopes seeing that he’s getting rocked in the pitching friendly FSL. Oh well, maybe he be decent

At times, it felt like Gross was only being kept around because he had options/was left handed.

Gross is probably the better overall player, but sometimes that’s not preferable. We don’t need another starting outfielder or platoon outfielder once Cameron comes back, and TGjr could be considered a better situational guy to have on the bench. They’re both LF, Gwynn is decent as a pinch runner, and I would argue Gwynn is a marginally better fielder. Add in the fact that he’s younger and has more upside, and this move makes sense.

It’s not a big deal either way though, Cameron will be back soon and when he is Kapler has earned his spot as the fourth outfielder in line.

If they’re both 4th OF’s, TG seems to have the greater value off the bench. TG is more better defensively and has speed. Gross may have more power and perhaps a better eye, but I’m happy to keep Gwynn. Now if they end up trading Gwynn this year this trade looses its value in upside(depending on the deal, of course).

Especially if it is because Kapler is still producing. I hope he is, but that makes Gywnn more expendable. Then we’re stuck with an option year for Cameron and a previously retired backup outfielder. (who knows LaPorta’s timetable)

On Josh Butler, I’d like to think the stache saw a worthwhile semi-reclamation product. Perhaps a (continuing) mechanical change to take stress off the arm and/or a move to bullpen. A sprained thumb sounds much better then the Ray’s Bay made it seem. If Melvin thinks he can make it the show in 2-3 years, I’m all for the trade.

With 5 games left on Cameron’s suspension we will have to make another move within the next week. I tend to feel Melvin isn’t going to allow this 14 man pitching staff all season and the Cameron return would most likely be the best time to scrap that before Yost becomes too comfortable with it. So who is the odd man out?

Stetter seems to be the most obvious choice to me, but it sure does sound like Yost likes the double LOOGY.

Turnbow hasn’t done anything to get us excited about.

Bush seems like the odd man out of the rotation at this point.

Parra hasn’t looked spectacular and hasn’t made it past the 5th inning if my memory serves me right. I also believe he has options.

McClung has pitched well, but I can easily see a scenario where they would prefer Bush for the long man and try to trade McClung or attempt to pass him through waivers (which if I had to guess, might be difficult due to recent performances).

The only other option that comes to mind at this moment is Sheets to the DL. as much as I hate to say it, I have a feeling this is the option most likely to happen.

I grudgingly think this has to be considered a good move by Moustache. He got a serviceable pitching prospect for a spare part that he would’ve had to discard for nothing in a week. That said, I think he traded the wrong guy, and I don’t mean TG Jr. We need LH power on the bench for the postseason. When there’s 2 outs in the 9th inning and we’re down by 1, is there anybody here who would rather send in TG Jr to PH vs Jonathan Papelbon rather than Gross? The guy he should’ve traded is our RH bench player, Kapler. When Cameron gets back we’ll be even more RH-dominant. Kapler will come down to earth over the course of the year and post similar numbers to Gross, but his numbers vs RHP will likely be far less than Gross’ will.

Brevard County (go Manatees!) was playing Vero Beach when the trade was made. Butler just had to switch dugouts.

Check out this thread on John Sickels’ site.