Defense, 25 Games In
Many aspects of the 2008 Milwaukee Brewers are different from that of the '07 club, but the one that may end up having the biggest impact on the bottom line is the defensive realignment. Since we have a day off (it's like a gift of three hours back in my life!) I thought I'd look at the issue from a variety of angles.
First, let's just think about what we've seen. Four of the eight defensive positions are manned by the same folks who played there last year. Of those, Hardy is solid, Hart is probably average with a plus arm, while Prince and Rickie are below average. The only real change from last year is that I think Rickie is a little better--still making spectacular plays, still making mistakes on relatively easy plays, but doing the good things more often and the bad things less often.
The other four spots are big changes:
- Catcher: Kendall appears to be a huge improvement. Maybe he'll stop being effective gunning down runners, but I can't even imagine anyone arguing that Kendall isn't a net plus in the field over Estrada.
- Third base: Bill Hall looks great. I don't know whether he'll turn out to be above average, but if he's average, that's a massive gain over last year.
- Left field: I'm not sold on Braun being all that good, or even having the potential to be all that good out there, but at the same time, he's clearly not all that bad. It isn't like sticking Jack Cust or Manny out there. Regardless, it's a step down from Jenkins, and probably a big one, but not enough to offset the advantage of getting Braun off of third.
- Center field: I really wanted Hall to succeed in center last year, but it's pretty clear that he didn't. We've already had three center fielders this year who looked better than Hall did at the position, and Mike Cameron hasn't played an inning yet. This is a step up, and it's likely to get bigger.
Of course, you knew I wasn't going to stop there. 25 games is not really enough to do any serious statistical analysis of defense, but let's see what the numbers say anyway.
A good starting point for team defense is defensive efficiency, which is the fraction of batted balls that turn into outs. Last year, the Brewers had a DefEff of .674, 14th out of 16 NL teams. (Only the Rats and Fish were worse.) This year we're at .711, 6th in the league. You can always find DefEff in the "Miscellaneous Stats" section of Baseball-Reference's league pages .
Just doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, I think that every .001 of DefEff is worth about 3 runs. (I'm figuring .001 represents about 5 more batted balls turned into outs; if they are all fly balls, it's more like 4 or 5 runs; if they are grounders, it's 2-2.5.) Viewed in this light, a DefEff increase of .037 would be astonishing: that's an improvement of over 100 runs, or about 10 wins.
That probably won't hold up over the course of the season, but even half that would be impressive. It could also be partially attributable to the pitching, if they get more ground balls and infield flies.
Another place to look for defense indicators is the new-for-2008 Hardball Times Team Page. Here are some of the things we can glean from today's report (it's updated daily):
- A fielding plus/minus of -1 suggests that we're about average. I'll take it.
- We're near the bottom in RZR (the percent of "in zone" balls that are successfully fielded), but second best in the league at getting outs on balls out of zone. That seems plausible to me: There have been plenty of great plays so far, but still our share of missed opportunities.
- The infield/outfield split is dramatic. We're near the bottom as an infield, but 5th best as an outfield. Cameron's return may help that go even higher.
- We're nearly best in the league in errors, and by far the best in the league in unearned runs. (Since unearned runs are based in large part on errors, it's no surprise that those two go hand in hand.) If you haven't noticed by now, I don't put a lot of stock in traditional fielding metrics such as errors and fielding percentage, because they are based on the subjective judgments of scorers.
That's probably enough for today. It'll take many more games before we can make any kind of confident assessment of team defense this year, but even if we go with the more pessimistic view (represented by RZR), that the Brewers are roughly an average defensive team, that's a huge score for the good guys. It's a testament to Melvin's offseason juggling, as well as the flexibility of Bill Hall and Ryan Braun.
4 recs |
49 comments
Comments
Braun
“It isn’t like sticking Jack Cust or Manny out there.”
...or Adam Dunn, or Pat Burrell, or Carlos Lee, or… :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Apr 28, 2008 1:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
true, true, and true
it was weird, when I wrote that sentence, I couldn’t get my brain to spit out an example of a bad fielding left fielder. It was a struggle to come up with Cust and Manny.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about double plays?
It seems like we’re turning a lot of DPs this year, and even more if Weeks could learn to throw a ball chest-high.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
also on the BR Misc Stats page
we’re 4th in the league.
I don’t know how much to read into that—it’s great to turn DPs, of course, but turning DPs, like hitting into them, is at least partially luck-based. And it helps that our pitchers are putting so f’ing many lead runners on base.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should tell him to bounce it
But farther out from first so Prince can make a play on it.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Apr 28, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are the hardest balls to grab at first
The short hops tend to be the easiest because they tend to bounce pretty true. The long hops are the difficult ones because one never know how high or low they will bounce. I only know this because that is what I was best at in my baseball career. Damn curve ball!! By career, I mean little league through high school with some “intense” softball leagues thrown in there.
This is probably another reason why I rarely defend prince on balls that are to be scooped. Any ball that he can get to without jumping or stretching off the base he should snag. There is no excuse for a professional baseball first basemen to think any differently. Especially a guy who has played there his entire career.
by brewfan2 on Apr 28, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, Prince was a shortstop coming up
Can’t you tell?
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would be interesting to compile a full list
of all the major leaguers who were shortstops when they were drafted.
in a decade, it’ll seem pretty ridiculous that ryan braun ever played shortstop.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Miami converted Braun his senior year to third
I could be totally wrong with that info.
by brewfan2 on Apr 28, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're right
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Gamel
Speaking of defense, Mat Gamel has made his 6th, 7th, and 8th errors today, with two innings to go. He stole a base, too. Sam Narron (Stars pitcher) had a home run.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Apr 28, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Closing links helps.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Apr 28, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
E: Gamel 3 (8, fielding, fielding, fielding).
At least they weren’t throwing errors!
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or arithmetic
my students are doing 9×12 and getting 96 all the time.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or run-time errors
Stop entering zero, retard.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can enter zero
just not divide by it.
i assume this is a reference to a game thread a few nights ago?
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
run-time error
sounds like something Estrada would be prone to.
by Zeyes on Apr 28, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy
Does anyone else think Hardy is below average besides me? He rarely dives for a ball and if the ball isn’t hit directly to him he makes a half-effort to get to it but never does. I am tired of hearing how great his defense is from BA.
by brew82 on Apr 28, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Hardy positions himself really well
He’s not fast, but he seems to have pretty good range. I love watching him throw because it always hits Prince in the chest, a boast his infield-mates cannot share.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does have the best arm
Of everyone on the infield I do like his arm when he gets to the ball.
by brew82 on Apr 28, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I somewhat agree
But once he gets the ball, I am very confident that his throw will be perfect.
I had the same feeling with braun last year. Wait a minute….forget that last statement. My heart stopped every time braun threw a ball.
by brewfan2 on Apr 28, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's below average
but I do think he’s overrated by some. Using THT RZR stats, he has been below average every year at balls in zone, but above average (often WAY above average) on balls out of zone.
That would seem to directly contradict what you say, as it suggests he makes spectacular plays but misses some easy ones. But I think there’s more to it.
The Brewers use the most, let’s say “creative” positioning. So when a ball goes through the typical shortstop zone, Hardy is parked behind second base (he misses an in-zone play); but when a ball goes right back up the middle, he’s there (he makes an out-of-zone play). I think the out-of-zone adjustment probably brings him up to about average in the THT stats.
Just to be provocative, I’ll add that I’ve never been convinced that Hardy is a better SS than Hall.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DEFENSE
I think your assessment of the situation is pretty much on, and it’s made the pitching look alot better. Once the team starts hitting, we won’t have nearly as many weaknesses as we did last year.
by drezdn on Apr 28, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
couple of lazy notes
.001 defensive efficiency = about five balls in play that shoulda/coulda been outs?
wow! back of the napkin math says that’s equivalent to about 5,000 balls in play over a season, or about 31 per game. that sounds right. that’s amazing. I’ve seen 0.8 runs per defensive play “missed” as an estimate, which suggests an even more dramatic 4 runs per .001 defensive efficiency… wow!
and like you’ve just posted, RZR is affected by the fact that the brewers employ some pretty dramatic shifts. Just looking at the THT RZR stats could say that compared to average the brewers are better on out of zone, worse on in zone, OR, i dont see why you couldn’t say that they employ more dramatic shits than average… which i’d guess to be true.
And Jeff, if we’re going to compare Hardy to Hall you have to say that Hardy has the better arm, right? Both stronger and more accurate. I might be able to be convinced that Hall has better range, though, i think it’s extremely close if there’s a difference at all.
I don’t think you can’t judge a SS skill level based on how often they dive. It’s really the first step that’s best indicative of range, and we rarely get to see that.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not trying to he's not good because he doesn't dive
But it would be nice to see him make some of those spectacular plays that the elite shortstops in baseball make.
by brew82 on Apr 28, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, you reverse-engineered my napkin
I was working from 5,000 BIP/tm. It was ~80,000 in the ‘07 NL altogether.
Pretty cool about DefEff—> runs, right? I can’t believe it never occurred to me to do that before.
Yeah, there are a variety of numbers floating around for run value of defensive plays—as a really easy rule of thumb, say 0.5 per groundball, 1.0+ per liner/fly. I rounded down in part because much of the difference for us is groundballs (assuming we eliminate many Rickie and Braun errors from ‘07.)
I’m with you on Hardy v Hall - Hardy has more accurate arm (not at all sure about stronger), while Hall has better range. Hardy might be better at second-base fundamentals - covering pickoffs and CS’s, turning DPs, but I don’t have a strong feeling about that.
Re: the first step - a great way to see how true this is is to watch a tennis match between Federer and somebody known as a “scrambler” (maybe Guillermo Canas) who isn’t as good. Federer (like Hardy) rarely looks like he’s making a huge effort for a ball, but he gets to most everything that the scramblers do. It’s even more dramatic among club players - every serious tennis player knows a 70 or 80 year old guy who still plays great because of anticipation + first step.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as an off-the-wall idea
Would you say that (at least ignoring the interim learning curve) there might be a small defensive improvement to be had by switching Hardy and Hall on the diamond? I realize that the commonly expected career path is for Hardy to eventually end up at second, but his attributes sound like he might be a pretty decent 3B if he can get accustomed to the position.
by Zeyes on Apr 28, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
that might be true.
ultimately, I think we’ll have the data to profile what makes a good shortstop and what makes a good third baseman, and at least be able to approximate who is a good candidate to switch over.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am almost positive that Hall has a stronger arm than Hardy
But Hardy’s accuracy more than makes up for whatever tiny bit of arm strength he’s lacking, so Hardy has the overall “better” arm.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am positive hardy has the stronger arm
hardy was a part time pitcher (closer) in high school and is rumored to touch 95 mph, many teams were interested in drafting hardy as a pitcher. i cannot find a source for the 95 mph rumor.
here’s the blurb on pitching.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=151753
fans underrate his arm, i think, but still have him higher than hall…
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scoutResults2007_MIL.html
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anecdote-for-anecdote
From BP 2005:
[Hall] makes highlight reel plays defensively and has a military grade weapon for a right armAlso, I don’t much like those tango fan reports. Just more garbage data confusing the defensive analysis.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
weird
you don’t like aggregate data from fans, wisdom of the crowds, but will quote one BP author? I’ll take the fan reports over any single scouts opinion every time.
Hall has a strong arm, no doubt. Hardy is stronger.
If we had access to lots of video we could find what appears to be some of the strongest throws from each of them and time it… alas… perhaps a chat question for one of the coaches, though i doubt they have a definitive answer either. for me, it’s the long throw from the hole, hardy fires it without arc, and hall puts more air under it.
you know who i’d trust… fielder’s opinion. we should ask him :)
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would absolutely trust Fielder's opinion
Because it’s informed.
Just because the fan scouting report is aggregate data doesn’t mean it’s quality data. Everyone wants to contribute, so I’m not trying to paint anyone as malignant, but the fan scouting report seems like something that a lot of people vote on without really having an informed opinion.
Even we, certainly I anyway, fall into that trap. For instance, above when I said “almost positive”, what I really should have said was, “in my opinion”. Not only am I not almost positive, I don’t even think I’m really qualified to judge. Hall having a stronger arm is just a vague sense I have, and one probably influenced by the very BP scouting report I quoted.
But really, this is just a way to waste an off-day, so what the hell: you suck and so does your stupid shortstop.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Apr 28, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong thread, but...
are getting your vitriol up for the cubs series?
what i’m dying to know is when do we start getting after Al for making comments like this?
The NL appears to be pretty darn weak and the Cubs ought to be running roughshod over it—as they have shown in the first 25 games.This is a year when a team put together right – and the Cubs are CLOSE, still needing a part or two – could breeze through the division and on into the playoffs.
is it funny to make comments about breezing into the playoffs after 25 games? i think so. know what else i think?
the cubs suck and so does their stupid shortstop.*
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they could breeze
if an act of g-d determined that they continued to play the easiest schedule in the majors for the next 137 games, as well.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'd like
to believe that 162 games helps even out those schedule imbalances… but 5-1 versus the white sox (72-90) last year while we’re 3-3 versus twins (79-83) and 2-1 versus detroit (88-73) doesn’t feel awesome.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so
what does the strength of schedule stuff look like for the rest of ‘08? has it been uneven so far and will even out?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's been dramatic so far
I posted something about the SOS a while back, and the Cubs have a one-game advantage over the course of the season, which is probably all used up by this point.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Breezing
“is it funny to make comments about breezing into the playoffs after 25 games? i think so.”
It’s better to wait until you’ve gone 24-10 through 34 games, methinks. :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Apr 28, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question...?
I’m fairly new to defensive stats. But this one was particularly confusing.
How can we have nearly the fewest errors, but be among the worst at fielding “in zone” balls? Aren’t “in zone” balls the ones where errors get charged for the most part? Does that mean they are mostly throwing errors? Or am I way off base on something?
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
by DaleCoop14 on Apr 28, 2008 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
only if the
fielder is also in the “zone” are they likely to get charged with the error. this is further proof (low errors, low in-zone rating) that the brewers employ more dramatic shifts than average.
the idea with the zone ratings is this: the zones are assigned to the field, (not the player’s positioning) so when hall makes a play in the shortstop zone he’s credited with an out-of-zone play, meanwhile, if he’s positioned way off the line and a smoking ground ball is hit right through the center of the 3b zone hall is charged with “missing” an in-zone play.
defensive metrics are largely flawed because they do not take into account the position of the fielder when the ball is put into play and they do a poor job of capturing how hard the ball was hit. for the most part i throw them out and use pitcher’s individual batting averages on balls in play compared to their career averages… which itself is really crude…
Jeff, time for a defensive metrics primer (one more advanced than my super basic one from way back when), don’t you think? to go along with the babip one?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure if I could do a defensive metrics primer
but one of these days I’ll give it a shot.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Apr 28, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That helps.
Thanks for the clarification. I can see how zone ratings would be severely skewed on a team that employs shifts all the time.
I know Jeter gets a bad rap for making out-of-zone plays at a better-than-average clip but missing a good number of in-zone plays. Is it possible that these numbers are significantly affected by having to defend against Big Papi and Manny so often throughout the year? As much as I hate defending the Yankees or Jeter in any way, I will say that when I watch Jeter play, I don’t generally get the impression that he is missing routine plays that often.
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
by DaleCoop14 on Apr 28, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the rap on Jeter
is that he plays so deep in the hole to get a headstart on those balls between him and the third baseman that he’s giving up easier, in the zone, plays up the middle. you don’t make as many diving/jumping/spinning highlight reel plays behind second base as you do near third base.
there’s a great bill james article on jeter… (i think it’s bill james) let me find it…
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to the article
i just linked below, i got the rap on jeter exactly backwards. james says…
Jeter played much, much more shallow than Everett, cheated to his left more, and shifted his position from left to right much, much more than Everett did
so, i think same effect, opposite reason. my bad.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here it is
also, how cool are the internets?
A) super uber cool
B) very cool
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Apr 28, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very interesting article
Thanks for linking that, Jacob
by sheeter on Apr 28, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got to say
that it is work like this and discussions like these that help make this one of the coolest baseabll blogs around. Accessible for the novice or the expert. Thanks a bunch guys.
Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay
by verno329 on Apr 28, 2008 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 
























