Game Thread #40: Dodgers (19-19) at Brewers (20-19)
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 5:01 PM CDT
in Game Threads
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PrintMonday: Dave Bush quality start.
Tuesday: Carlos Villanueva quality start.
I don't dare suggest what might follow.
Tonight the matchup is Manny Parra and Derek Lowe. Speaking of matchups, the BR Game Preview tells us something harrowing: Andruw Jones has a career 1.750 OPS against Gagne. Apparently things could've worked out a little differently.
If Yost decides to play with his LaRussa-style index cards, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Counsell start tonight--he's got an .873 OPS in 26 career PAs against Lowe.
Game time is 7:05 Central.
Go Brewers!
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Get yer lineups here!
Looks like we have a few changes, too:
CF Mike Cameron
SS JJ Hardy
LF Ryan Braun
1B Prince Fielder
RF Corey Hart
3B Bill Hall
2B Craig Counsell
P Manny Parra
C Jason Kendall
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Good job, Jeff
Calling the Counsell start.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
I actually wrote up the post early this afternoon
since I didn’t know if I’d be home or not … as is, it looks a little less impressive, since the timestamp of this post is after the time stamp of the JS post :).
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You big faker.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Patience, please
I endorse playing anyone tonight who will lay off the sinkers below the knees that Lowe counts on for all those ground balls he must have in order to win.
by Bay View Brewer on May 14, 2008 5:15 PM CDT reply actions
And on that note her eis some more good news
It looks like home plate umpire James Hoye doesn’t like the low balls especially to right handed batters
He is a little more forgiving against lefties however
Here are the unshrunk links RHB LHB.So hopefully the crew will be very patient and the umpire will make Lower bring the ball up. On the other hand, Manny seems to work up in the zone a lot especially with his fastball. It appears Hoye likes the high strike so it seems we have the best ump working this game.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
That should be here is some more good news. I can't type.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Too much knowledge?
It’s at times like this that I feel possibly too smart about what’s going on in the game and then start yelling at the TV when guys don’t lay off the low pitches. As if I could do the same.
Thanks for the graphs, dixie. Now I’m prepared to criticize the Brewers hitters.
by Bay View Brewer on May 14, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You should download the song "I Can't Get Behind That" by William Shatner
He's extremely quick and good.
Schizo much?
Wow, just looked up the lyrics to that. Can’t imagine what it sounds like. Is it even possible to finish listening to the whole thing?
by Bay View Brewer on May 14, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
It’s not really a “song” per se, more of a twin rant put to music. They aren’t singing.
“Leaf blowers: is there anything more futile?!” I love it.
He's extremely quick and good.
It just sounds so crazy
The leaf blowers line was the best. Also, Shatner talking about student drivers.
by Bay View Brewer on May 14, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
If you give me your email, I'll send it to you
His cover of Pulp’s “Common People” is also fantastically deranged.
He's extremely quick and good.
In other games
Jorge De La Rosa takes his 10.24 ERA to Arizona to face Micah Owings. Chance for another homer by Owings maybe.
Some pregame entertainment
I love this guy
by Marty McSuperFly on May 14, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions
lineup
This is the first time during the Ned Yost era that the lineup is EXACTLY the same one I would be putting out there. Let’s see it turns out…if it’s good, I’ll get some nice satisfaction out of it. :-)
Projection
2 Ks in the leadoff spot, 1 groundout, 1 fly out. Fans still blame Weeks.
by Marty McSuperFly on May 14, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
... and is promptly blamed for not bunting.
Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"
I am pretty surprised we come out so well there
Lowe isn’t off to a great start but he is a very good pitcher and we have had trouble with sinkerballers in the past. They must feel the dodger offense isn’t going to do much. No idea how they generally fair against lefties but maybe they have some problems.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No Eithier for the Dodgers
Pierre and Jones one two in the dodger lineup. As the guy Jeff interviewed points out, torre not making some key decisions.
Yeah I guess I left that part out
I have a particularly good feeling about today. Peavy going for the padres against Lilly who hasn’t been great this year. We could get back to two games out here.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Another double play
I wonder how stats like RZR handle double plays. Anyone know? We certainly have turned more than our share this year.
I think they don't
RZR is entirely about fielding balls and making successful plays on them.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know...
a huge number of double plays are either gimmes, or context-dependent—say, pierre beating out the throw.
and to the extent it’s a “zone” stat - that is, it’s about range - dp’s are out of scope.
but that isn’t to say that a perfect defense stat would ignore them entirely.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I see your point
I guess I really need to think about it as a “zone” and not think of it so much as a total defensive metric.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
at the rate we're going
Parra will face the minimum, and the Brewers will make zero outs! Ever!
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop it.
Now.
Lordz Of Vengeance....Just Win, Baby.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on May 14, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
With the limited catching depth right now in the majors Martin is going to get paid
He sure is a nice player. Very under the radar for a LA guy even.
didn't lock him up much beyond arby
if he stays healthy, he’ll have a mega contract in his future.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I have seen Salome and I will admit I am not sold
He just doesn’t look like he is going to stick behind the plate. If he can’t stick there where can he play?
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha
Nowhere. Nobody likes his defense. He has a cannon arm but is just supposed to be wretched mechanically back there. Who else have you seen besides Jeffress and Salome? I take it you went to WV last year?
He's extremely quick and good.
Yeah I saw them a couple times
I blogged about jeffress’s start a long time ago. Salome may have a cannon but he couldn’t throw anyone out when I saw him.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, his CS numbers this year suck too
Maybe he can be…a 5’7” RF? A really immobile 2B? I dunno. He’s hitting .390/.424/.545/.969 at age 21 (he won’t be 21 for a month, actually) at AA, so he’s gonna get plenty of time in the minors to hone his craft behind the plate.
Lucroy, on the other hand, was supposedly suspect defensively, but his CS numbers are solid and so are the scouting reports. He’s also hitting like the second-best offensive catcher in the draft, behind Matt Wieters. Only problem is, he’s a week younger than Salome and two levels behind him.
He's extremely quick and good.
You should be beheaded for saying that.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Manny won't get a QS
If he keeps throwing this many pitches/inning. Still, better than giving up runs!
actually, 29 pitches through 2
so he’s a-ok.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
He couldn't find a good angle to dive for it
You don’t win gold gloves standing, you know.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
I was thinking the same thing.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
ha
my feed is slow. for a second i thought you were suggesting Craig squeeze prince home from second.
corey, maybe.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
um...i dunno if my wife would like that...
...but if you insist:)
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow..
I guess Para wants me to sound like a tool or ripping on his unable to go deep into games thing.
That's Parra's first non-double hit, by the way
Ruining his chance to catch Mark Prior.
He's extremely quick and good.
yeah
i only watched the last inning or two last night. so it’s like christmas morning for me still.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
My favorite taking advantage of Pierre play
Was Damian Miller tagging from 2nd to 3rd on a fly to center field against the Cubs the year Pierre was there.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
My girlfriend
”’Fielder gobbles it up’—they said that because he’s fat!”
He's extremely quick and good.
another question...
would a baseball be considered vegetarian? I know it’s not vegan, being hide and all, but since it has no more meat on it….
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
She's a vegetarian too
I asked her the same thing, only about something a little more…pertinent. I’ll leave it up to the reader to deduce my meaning.
He's extremely quick and good.
outfield hits take muscle...
...which is why I didn’t get any of those in little league…
but i was also slow, so I got caught stealing too:)
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Edmonds update
Jim Edmonds is expected to be in a Cubs uniform Thursday afternoon, playing centerfield and batting ninth in the lineup. Ninth?
"He’s going to hit ninth," manager Lou Piniella [joked]. "I’m going to move the pitcher to eighth, and hit him ninth."
He's extremely quick and good.
the "crazy 8" batting order is just a never ending topic of discussion
Lou said he wasn’t going to do it at one point.
i saw that...
i think lou’s trying to be funny in his own way. see a lineup yet?
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
(delete previous dumbass comment)
I know what day of the week it is…really i do…
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
In your defense
At this point Edmonds probably should be fourteen hours ahead, playing in Japan. :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
50 pitches through 4 innings
The crazy thing is “only” 29 strikes there. So the dodgers aren’t doing much when they do get the strikes.
8 innings for Parra?:P
...course he seems to think 80 is his limit.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
P.S.
Why don’t they figure pickoff attempts into pitch count? obviously you’d have to raise the 100 soft limit…but I’m sure some pitchers throw more PO attempts than others…
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Parra mechanics
...so anyone know what the “mechanical flaw” is in each pitcher, hopefully now corrected? Jeff, you thought that Bush was telegraphing his pitches, right?
I heard both Villy and Bush talk about mechanical adjustments in interviews
I wouldn’t venture a paraphrase, but they didn’t sound like anything major. I noticed that Bush was hitting high 80s with his fastball.
I don't know about telegraphing
(I’m not ruling it out)
I think that some of his problems come from being coached to nibble more, and missing as a result of that, hence the increased walks over the last year.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
They meant to release Bush and keep Vargas
And only realized their mistake during that meeting the other day.
They actually did, when Jones was on in the first inning
He looked positively lithe next to The Man Who Would Be King.
He's extremely quick and good.
I'll bring the noisemakers...
He was great last year too, IMHO.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
frankly, I think they should pull him before next inning though...
...he seems to hit a wall at a PC of 80. he’s at 77 now.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Zach Braddock
He was piggybacking on Mike Jones again today, and it’s gone much better: 2 IP, 0 H, 1 BB, 3 K.
He's extremely quick and good.
How can you
not love Corey Hart! The kid is awesome!
The Wallbangers won because they played the game like kids! Let's do that again!!!
Hall
How far out to left would he have to hit it to score Prince on a sac fly? 300 feet? 275?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Prince should go no matter what
I’ll take his m*v against Pierre’s arm.
He's extremely quick and good.
Yeah
I was thinking I should have asked “How shallow would it have to be for Sveum not to send Prince?”
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Doesn't Juan have a noodle arm?? I say 250.
The Wallbangers won because they played the game like kids! Let's do that again!!!
I wonder if Billy ticked off the ump leaving the box early
cuz he has been getting some borderline calls
yep...
manny hits a wall at 80…3 pitches into the future.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Would that be
Hu-Looney?
The Wallbangers won because they played the game like kids! Let's do that again!!!
I think
CC Sabathia is too big to play third.
by molitorfan on May 14, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The bigger the third baseman the less area for the ball to sneak through
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions
You just have to get a guy big enough to physically extend from the foul line to the edge of the shortstop's range
He's extremely quick and good.
Does anyone else think
That if Ned had pinch hit there and the batter made an out and the bullpen blew it this inning, it’d be called a Yosting?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
...no...it'll be called a yosting...
if Manny falls apart here…
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Every loss this year has been called a Yosting
There’s always someone out there pissed about something.
by Marty McSuperFly on May 14, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
By that logic
Prince shouldn’t play against Roy Oswalt, right? He hits .160 against him.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
long link
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080514&content_id=2700360&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Brewers can afford to add top pitcher
Owner Attanasio pledges to open up checkbook if necessary
Well, technically
But any runs are going to be unearned. I guess it’s not a foregone conclusion he gets another out, though.
He's extremely quick and good.
would an HR be unearned?
...now that Manny’s out, I can ask the question…
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
He should have been out of the inning after Prince’s error. Anything after that isn’t charged as an earned run.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
i really never understood that one...
seeing as it’s not counting the runners on base and if he pitched in the next inning it would have been a run earned..
i also don’t get how an E1 makes for unearned runs.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Manny should have been pulled against Juan. batter to late as Pierre hits .450 against lefties
YOSTED
this year, in 23 PAs
in his career, he has no discernible platoon differential.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Based on 23 AB?
Come on. If you’re going to say stuff like that, at least look at more than 23 at bats.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
He hit .274/.315/.305 against them last year
And he’s exactly the same against them as against righties over his career, only with even less power.
He's extremely quick and good.
he was pitching pretty well - I was impressed
Prince and Ryan both need to make those plays – I mean come on, that Pierre thing was sad
yeah
an implosion consisting of what should have been four outs.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on May 14, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Implosion?
He doesn’t give up any runs if Prince or Braun make their plays.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
An infield hit, error, and bloop that should have been caught does not constitute an implosion
He's extremely quick and good.
okay, okay....
...I can’t see the actual game. my bad.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought he looked good in that inning as far as the pitches
I was kind of expecting him to be a little more wild and maybe groove one, but he didn’t. I’d say tonight was a very good outing.
I'll 2nd that
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Prince owes Parra a win if this one slips away
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
Maybe he can buy him a steak
Er…a veggie meatloaf sandwich from the Comet?
He's extremely quick and good.
eating comet...
isn’t good for you. Didn’t you see the Mr. Yuck symbol?
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll settle for him plating a couple runs this inning
to loosen this game up a little.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point
If he ate more steak, he makes that play, right?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
It'll be Mota
Setting the stage for another feel-good story about Gagne getting the save.
He's extremely quick and good.
gagne knows how to pitch two innings...
he proved it two nights ago…
why not give it to him again now?
then when he throws out his arm, we can put him on the DL and send him to AAA rehab the rest of the season:P
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Being serious, I think Gagne is out today after throwing three innings in two days
He's extremely quick and good.
he would be...
...pitching on a team not managed by Yost or Baker.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha
I would agree
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I heard Haudricourt on a radio show
say he is a go for today. Not a hunnert percent sure about that.
Proctologist shitty?
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Mostly fastballs
Sliders to righties, changes to lefties, with a few curves mixed in.
by dixieflatline on May 14, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm assuming Gagne is available tonight?
or with 3 innings in 2 nights do you save him for worst case?
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
More small sample stuff
They should pinch hit for Hardy. He’s only hitting .125 in the 7th inning.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Yeah, but what do his splits look like on days his beefcake picture is published in Sports Illustrated?
He's extremely quick and good.
...god i miss uke...
Is there any free station out there that does radio of the game?
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
lol...
maybe they should have:P
Anyone have a plot of how players do by inning? like do some players need a few innings to “warm up”
by PagsBrewCrew on May 14, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Riske
Don’t know what’s wrong, but he called the trainers out and walked off.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Looked like he was clinching his pitching hand when he walked into the dugout
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
Riske just covering for...
Yost accidentally warming up the wrong reliever. Seriously though, hope it’s nothing serious…
Who else is on the 40-man roster?
Dillard and who else?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Gallardo on one knee?
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
also I hear Cirillo is looking for a gig
Have I’ve just been missing him or has he not been on the Pre/Post game shows lately?
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on May 14, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he only does road games
When he feels like it.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
well folks...
gotta go. my first nearly complete game of participating at this awesome site. Thanks jeff, battlekow and other “hosts”
I wish Turnbow were pitching
I kid I kid
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
geez
Wellemeyer shutting out the Pirates tonight, just got pulled after giving up a single to open the 8th inning. I bet Duncan could turn Turnbow into a league-average starter.
there's a thread at vivaelbirdos near the top
where there is, how shall I say it, a big lack of love. They don’t hate on the guy, but lots of negativity. Hard to argue with the results that Duncan produces, but they do.
Efficiency
Is Shouse’s middle name
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
Wow
Davey Nelson pointed out that Kendall has 11 throwouts on attempted steals so far this season, versus 6 for Estrada all of last year.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
NO GAGNE!!!!
Don’t let him ruin another game!!!
BA just mentioned The Masters
which is, as we know, a tradition unlike any other.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"