I'm Done with Haudricourt and the Journal-Sentinel
I generally try to steer clear of blogger/MSM debates, and I don't even find a lot of fun anymore in mocking the simplicity of old-school beat writers. Thus, I mostly kept quiet after the Buzz Bissinger eruption several weeks ago, and I haven't had much to say about Tom Haudricourt's inanities in the time since.
For a while, I was even a bit psyched about the Journal-Sentinel blog. One thing we can all agree on is that beat writers have access (to the clubhouse, to front office guys, to Yost, etc.) and we don't. I don't particularly want the responsibility of maintaining those relationships, but I do like having the insight. It seemed that the J-S blog would allow Tom and Anthony to get the news out faster.
And most of the time, they do so in an appropriate "just-the-facts" style. That's the best--they are perfectly capable of asking questions, taking notes, and reporting what people said.
Unfortunately, they have opinions, too. Even more unfortunately, they feel the need to publish them.
I should've known it would go downhill fast after Anthony's much-discussed response in the April 30 mailbag:
Q: Adam of Milwaukee - Hey Anthony, There was a showdown on Costas' HBO show last night between the Deadspin creator and a national writer talking about blogs and the media. Where do you and Tom stand on that argument? There are so many great blogs about the Brewers (Brew Crew Ball, Chuckie Hacks) that in my mind serve as mainly a way for people to get excited about this Brewers season. I don't see anything wrong with that! Do you!
A: Anthony Witrado - Not so much, but those people are also not in the clubhouse gathering inside info like Tom and I. Blogs are all good as long as you know which ones are informed and which ones are just fans. I also hope people don't mistake the people who write the fan blogs for actual journalists. But to better answer you, no, I don't see anything wrong with it.
I don't see anything wrong with Witrado being a quote-monkey with a press pass, either, but I hope people don't mistake him for someone with anything interesting to say, ever.
Tom H lost a lot of credibility with his mishandling of the Badger Blogger rumor that Ned Yost was about to be fired in mid-May. It's tough to forget this choice tidbit:
It could be a totally irresponsible posting by "Badger Blogger," which as I've stated many times is a real danger of the Internet.
Of course. Heaven forbid Grandma (not morineko's grandma, though) reads an incorrect rumor, which causes her to fall and break her hip. Then that would be on the conscience of Badger Blogger--whoever that is.
With the exception of the frequent spelling errors that made us wonder who really went to J-School, it had been silent on this front for a few weeks, but the last several days have been brutal.
First, Tom H reported that Weeks sprained his knee, though there was no sign he was going on the DL. Way to use those inside sources, buddy! An hour and a half later: Weeks goes on DL.
Next, Tom snips at Mass Haas of BrewerFan.net about posting regarding Seth Lintz's reported signing. I'll let MH relate the story:
So earlier this (Saturday) afternoon, Haudricourt emails me this -- now keep in mind this is four days after we posted the article, and four days after MLB.com's McCalvy acknowledged the article.
The only problem with putting something on your website like that without fact checking it is that it might not be true. The Brewers deny that they've reached a deal with Lintz.
And now, just a few hours later, Haudricourt, copied for emphasis from earlier in this post, writes:
The Brewers' other second-round pick, prep right-hander Seth Lintz of Lewisburg, Tenn., told his hometown newspaper that he received $900,000 to turn down his scholarship to Kentucky.Gee, Tom, how is that any different from what we did, except that it's 108 hours after we posted it?
For those of you who don't know, Mass Haas is about as tireless a resource as you'll find on the intertubes--he's like the Haudricourt of the Brewers minor league scene, only without the inanity and snippiness. (I mean that as a compliment to MH, in case it isn't clear.)
I promise, I have a point. Here it is.
Long story short, Haudricourt and his colleague Witrado have proven themselves to have inflated senses of self-worth, to commit more or less the same crimes they rush to condemn in others, and to seriously question the value of any Brewers coverage that doesn't emit from their own publication. (Hey Tom, how many draft picks have you interviewed lately?)
All this would be tolerable if they were providing much of value. But really, what do we get from the J-S that we don't get from Adam McCalvy and the team at MLB.com? I'll answer that one for you: We get the starting lineups. Most of the time. A few hours early.
That's it. Well, that and a bunch of useless crap.
If you can't tell, I'm sick of it. As far as I'm concerned, the J-S guys provide nothing of value that I can't get elsewhere. Reading their blog and their pieces in the sports section is a waste of time, one coupled with the occasional insult and the frequent mistake.
As of today, I'm removing the J-S from my blog readers, I've deleted the J-S from my bookmarks, and I'm done linking to the J-S on this site. I encourage you to do the same.
If you want to keep reading their tripe, be my guest; I don't even really care if you link to it on the site, in comments or FanPosts. I'm not trying to start a movement here. All I really want to do is eliminate one annoyance from my life and make it a little easier to have fun being a Brewers fan.
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Lineups
I’ve found that stats.com gets the lineup about as fast as anybody.
by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 16, 2008 12:02 PM CDT 0 recs
Thanks!!!
I’m part of the Stats.com crew at Miller Park…......thanks for the compliment.
by statsllc on
Jun 16, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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No
Thank YOU for putting it up so quickly :)
by Marty McSuperFly on
Jun 16, 2008 4:33 PM CDT
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inside the clubhouse access
is grossly overrated.
you don’t need to be anywhere near the players or coaches to know what they are going to say.
player: “i just go out there and try to contribute.”
coach: “player had a really nice game.”
and when they aren’t getting those tired cliches to write about, they’re creating the stories with their clubhouse access.
here’s haudricourt’s lede from latest column:
At the beginning of the season, Seth McClung was consigned to the dreaded long-relief role in the Milwaukee Brewers’ bullpen and Salomon Torres was merely one of many set-up men manager Ned Yost could summon on any given night in front of closer Eric Gagné.
And his line of questioning in the post game press conference went like this (paraphrased):
TH: Would you say that McClung and Torres have been the two nice finds this season, and probably the most successful moves the team has made on the personnel front?NY: No Doubt.
TH: Will you please say that McClung and Torrres have been nice finds this season (so that I can write about it in my column)?
NY: They both have been very pleasant surprises. And very effective.
TH: Thanks. (to self: scored yet another sunday column lede, way to go TH!)
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Jun 16, 2008 12:21 PM CDT 0 recs
where can I find audio or video feeds of the press conferences?
As much as Yost’s voice irritates me (has nothing to do with my opinion of him, really,) I’d rather hear what he has to say without going through a sloppy intermediary.
by morineko on
Jun 16, 2008 7:26 PM CDT
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They are kinda hard to find, not readily available
if you go to MLB.com and go to their video page and then type in “Ned Yost Presser: June 16”, it will usually show up.
by jihad on
Jun 16, 2008 10:25 PM CDT
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Its sort of hit or miss
JSonline used to do a nice job of it, but I tried to find a url to post, and no luck. To see what they used to have or to listen to relatively recent ones, if you go to the Brewers blog there and click on the “audio” in the tag cloud as they are called.
Others: WSSP, http://sportsradio1250.com/index.php and go to the postgame show, sportsbubbler, http://www.sportsbubbler.com/DisplayPodcasts.aspx?Team=1 and WTMJ, http://www.620wtmj.com/podcasts/brewersradionetwork
by ol Pete on
Jun 17, 2008 9:14 AM CDT
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thank you
All those together are exactly what I was looking for, not only for Yost’s press comments, but with all those comments directly from players as well.
by morineko on
Jun 18, 2008 12:25 AM CDT
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It's a shame
There’s still plenty of value in the JS Brewers beat reporter position - if handled correctly, it can still be the place for breaking news and (heaven forbid) actual insight into the Crushers. (And is it me, or has it gotten worse over the past couple of months?)
I think we should start a movement to replace Tom and Anthony with one Mr. McSuperfly. THAT would be good stuff! :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Jun 16, 2008 12:30 PM CDT 0 recs
I mostly liked the JS coverage
back when Drew Olson was still part of it…the fill-in guy from the football section they had last year (I don’t even remember his name) wasn’t much, and Witrado’s output is just execrable; all of Haudricourt’s faults ladled with even more self-serving sanctimony, and he doesn’t even have the “I’ve been doing this for 300 years, who are you?” card to play with any right (but does so anyway).
by Zeyes on
Jun 16, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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I concur...
But I wonder if that sentiment (in me, anyway) isn’t just “good ol’ days” reminiscing. Those were, after all, the days before I was regularly reading any other Brewers info sources, except AP. I only discovered BCB about a year ago, so I am not sure how accurately I am remembering the “dark ages” before that.
I do remember appreciating Mike Baumann’s frequent Brewers-related columns as well. And Phil Garner’s regular spots on the “Dave and Carol” show years ago.
Ahh, the good ol’ days…
It's called "playing the percentages."
by hilbelink on
Jun 17, 2008 7:54 AM CDT
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What about Michael Hunt?
He actually just wrote a column pointing out the benefits of having a retractable roof on Miller Park (He really did, you should check it out….amazing stuff).
Where else are you going to get that??
by Supertramp on Jun 16, 2008 12:33 PM CDT 0 recs
Tom's Greatest Hits
This one’s pretty’s good too. Despite multiple sources close to Angel Salome reporting that the substance he was nailed for using was an ADD stimulant, Tom decided to print-yes, print, not blog; with great power comes great responsibility!-that Salome had been busted for steroids. Careful where you’re aiming that thing, Tom.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on Jun 16, 2008 12:34 PM CDT 0 recs
That
is so true. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 16, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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Great point on the MJS coverage of the farm system vs places like BCB
I have to admit until I found BCB I have a very vague understanding of what was going on down on the farm.
blogs like BCB have done so much to educate fans who want to be educated on the Brewers farm system. it is nice when they call up a player to have an idea of what he has done and how he might help the team(other than the company line the majority of the MSM types spout)
The whole series of interviews you guys have done with the draftees has been great you get a bit of a feel for the character of these “kids” when you read their answers.
It is going to be interesting as this younger generation of players moves up the ladder they are much more net savvy and I can see the day that getting access to players will not be the sole possession of the “big boys”
McClung I believe told Jamie in LA that he reads BCB or was at least aware of what was being said about him here(the whole son of clung thing)
As for Tom H he is a dinosaur who refuses to evolve so he and his ilk will eventually die out. The whole news paper industry has to evolve or people like Tom H will be looking for work.
Oh and I still think that Tom H teed up Bruce at Badger Blogger(who was wrong) for the sole purpose of giving him a reason to attack blogs in general.
Keep fighting the good fight Jeff
Its all about the Bullpen this season that is the key.
by WSB Chris on Jun 16, 2008 12:40 PM CDT 0 recs
TH “teed up” Bruce at Badgerblogger (whose correctness other than eventual outcome is unknown) for the sole purpose of giving him a reason to attack blogs in general. Just a “dinosaur” fighting extinction apparently.
Putting aside the notion that TH is engaged in a manipulation to attack people who talk on the internet, aren’t you the guy who said that badgerblogger wasn’t a fake propaganda site? How can he tee him up, if Bruce is part of the post-dinosaur news system? Do you know Bruce?
by ol Pete on
Jun 16, 2008 1:31 PM CDT
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Why would TH have brought up Badger Blogger?
I never understood why Tom would refer to a site with such a low readership in the first place. It’s been shown that Tom’s blog post exposed many more people to Badger Blogger than read it before. Why give a relatively unknown entity that much attention?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on
Jun 16, 2008 1:41 PM CDT
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straight traffic is not the only way measure the success or failure of a blog
Badger Blogger had been mentioned by Belling on Air last year in regards to McGee Sr. and his radio show they got a ton of traffic then but for a good reason. Patrick the owner of that blog has been right on a number of stories in the past on a number of subjects.
And why Badger Blogger because they made themselves an easy target by putting something up without a second source. At a time when the Fire Ned Yost Mob was in full force I still believe that Tom figured he could play both side if Bruce was right Tom was there(how do we know who was his source I know a lot of people with friends or family with in the organization)But if they were wrong Tom could say see what happens when you trust a blog not a real news source.
Yes the Traffic there is not on par with the traffic here Jay but few political blogs can pull the traffic that a lot of sports blog pull.
You keep bringing up the low traffic of BB, my guess is you do not like the way the posters over there lean politically and have an ax to grind. You seem to be the only person trying to say that Tom should have ignored the story based solely on their Sitemeter readings Jay so what is the threshold for believing or not believing a story on a blog Jay 66 hits a day 200 1000 10,000 when does a blog get enough traffic that we can take what they say as the truth?
Its all about the Bullpen this season that is the key.
by WSB Chris on
Jun 16, 2008 2:20 PM CDT
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I have no idea why part of the comment did that.
what it said was few political blogs can pull the traffic a lot of sports blogs pull
Its all about the Bullpen this season that is the key.
by WSB Chris on
Jun 16, 2008 2:21 PM CDT
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Geez, settle down there
I don’t care about how Badger Blogger leans politically. Compared to a JS blog post, very few people would have seen the Badger Blogger rumor. I’m sorry if that offends you, but that’s how it is.
In his original blog post, Tom mentions he’s unfamiliar with Badger Blogger. If that’s the case, why even post what they say (and thus give the rumor more credibility/exposure, despite his written misgivings) without bothering to check the information? It’s not like he would’ve missed the boat if the rumor was true by not posting about BB. Sure, he would have posted after BB did, but not that many would’ve been aware he didn’t break the story—BB could celebrate their coup, Tom H could do his job, and the world would keep spinning mostly unaware.
I agree with you that Tom H was likely attempting to play both sides by, if it was true, picking out a good rumor or, if it was false, trying to show he is a better source of information than blogs.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on
Jun 16, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
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damn longhaired hippie! :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 16, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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awesome, jeff..
nice work. and agreed.
hopefully TH will link to your valid points; and give you the “15 minutes of fame” you deserve…
i have been getting more and more annoyed with the MJS brewers blog as well… i will say; it was pretty good in the off-season and spring before the games started…
go get em' seth!
by Jamie in LA on
Jun 16, 2008 5:09 PM CDT
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yup. seth almost certainly loves bcb. dunno if he reads it. but he is aware.
go get em' seth!
by Jamie in LA on
Jun 16, 2008 5:00 PM CDT
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I think the only thing worse than Tom H's blog
Is the comments in the game section on the blog and the horrible questions he gets in his mailbag (he answers the trash with smug trash). I will read the game story the day after… but the blog I am done with too.
It is hard to find other local papers that cover the local team so heavily, not to say it is all good, but the Brewers get a lot of attention in Sports page, compared to say the Bucks. In the last few years more articles, and more pages have been dedicated to the Brewers, so I don’t mind the extra information out there.
But until I can read a full game report the day after on BrewCrewBall I still will probably go to read the game story.
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Jun 16, 2008 1:48 PM CDT 0 recs
You could read the mlb.com recaps.
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on
Jun 16, 2008 1:54 PM CDT
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Of course
They get almost nothing compared to say the Packers. :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on
Jun 16, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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True
I almost brought that up… but instead looked at the history of the Brewers coverage… even if the Brewers win the world series, the history and tradition associated with the Packers seems unlikely that coverage will be surpassed in the near future
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on
Jun 16, 2008 2:12 PM CDT
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That's a neat idea
Reading fan-based recaps would be a huge step forward, I think. Too often, the recap follows a storyline that develops in the press room and the post-game interviews, and doesn’t reflect the game that I remember watching. Especially with the game thread for review, outsider recaps could provide a sorely-needed fresh viewpoint.
by Marty McSuperFly on
Jun 16, 2008 2:12 PM CDT
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Very true
I hate when a game story gives a big backstory about a player that hit a crucial homer and something interesting that happened to them and they make it a big deal. Then they sum up the rest of the game in about 3 lines.
by jihad on
Jun 16, 2008 6:38 PM CDT
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fan-based recaps
would be a great idea. it’s hard to do consistently, but i try to do it every game. i missed yesterday’s game though.
Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.
by jimmyb1799 on Jun 16, 2008 3:30 PM CDT 0 recs
I agree
I don’t mind reading the MLB recaps, but they always leave me wanting a little more… it may be difficult to do it for every game, but for big exciting games I feel some fans could recount the game just as well as the fellas at the Journal Sentinel….
I want to post this to Tom’s blog, but he hasn’t added something new today!
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on
Jun 16, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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Priorities
He needs to finish up a Sunday feature on Iribarren before Weeks comes back.
by Marty McSuperFly on
Jun 16, 2008 3:45 PM CDT
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but...uh...
without the quotes?
you’re suggesting a post-game recap created without clubhouse access?
i…uh…i’m…i’m sorry. I don’t understand.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on
Jun 16, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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Just give it 110%, Jeff, and try not to do too much with it
He's extremely quick and good.
by battlekow on
Jun 16, 2008 4:00 PM CDT
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Clearly, you have no concept
Kyguy922 is a run scorer.
by Getting Yosted on
Jun 16, 2008 4:33 PM CDT
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Let's say Fielder goes 3 for 4
“I just try to go up there and get some good ABs. I’m just glad the team was able to string some hits together and get a W.”
by Marty McSuperFly on
Jun 16, 2008 4:34 PM CDT
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Witrado
He is a punk kid who walks around with his nose in the air because he is a Major League beat “writer”. Last week in Houston I read his story on the Wednesday night game three times. There was absolutely no mention of the events leading to the ejection of Ausmus and Cooper. Granted they aren’t with the Brewers but I thought it would at least merit something in print. I find Witrado’s work “high schoolish” at best.
by statsllc on Jun 16, 2008 4:24 PM CDT 0 recs
Nice
I concur, Jeff. The only reason I can think that the Dynamic Duo report as they do is because they are catering to the lowest denominator Brewers fan, but that’s not much of an excuse. Alternative news sources, FTW.
My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper
by nmc on Jun 16, 2008 5:31 PM CDT 0 recs
I wonder
Since newspapers don’t like blogs, maybe they’re trying to reach the audiences who don’t like blogs. I’d think the correlation between “readers who get a daily paper” and “readers who frequent sports blogs” is pretty low.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 16, 2008 6:16 PM CDT
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Good call
I can’t promise I’ll abstain completely from linking the JS when I return with the Mug, but I’ll keep it in mind.
Derek Jeter is day to day after being hit by a pitch and being gorilla press slammed by a Bizarro Ray.
by KLSnow on Jun 16, 2008 8:10 PM CDT 0 recs
who says I'm going to give it back?
:)
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on
Jun 16, 2008 8:21 PM CDT
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i have the advantage...
i’m braced for battle, wearing my cup.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on
Jun 16, 2008 8:32 PM CDT
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yeah, but it's cheap plastic...
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 16, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
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If you really want to fight...
For an unpaid writing gig that’s a surprising amount of work, then I may let you win. :-)
Derek Jeter is day to day after being hit by a pitch and being gorilla press slammed by a Bizarro Ray.
by KLSnow on
Jun 16, 2008 10:38 PM CDT
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but the unpaid ones are the best!
if i started giving you money, i’d be worried you’d turn out like witrado.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on
Jun 16, 2008 10:59 PM CDT
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zing!
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 16, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
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*sniff*
Thanks Jeff! Your post is spot on. You didn’t say it so I will.
Fuck 'em.
Tom Hanks> Tom Waits> Tomfoolery> Tomcats> Tom Toms> Tom Haudricourt.
by iluvlamp on Jun 16, 2008 10:40 PM CDT 0 recs
dammit
I also wanted to acknowledge how valuable Mass Haas is. He is a fucking badass resource. You too rogue! Beat writer Marty? HAHA. That would be the best thing ever.
by iluvlamp on Jun 16, 2008 10:50 PM CDT 0 recs
My 2 cents
The attitude at the JS won’t change until the writers start treating their readers as customers. Can you imagine going to a restaurant and complaining that the food was cold only to have the waiter explain that you don’t really appreciate the way the cook prepared the meal?
I used to be a daily subscriber to the Journal. I found that I was reading more and more from mlb.com and from blogs. I started using Google Reader and it was a great way for me to sift through the crud! I went from daily to a Sunday only subscriber and now I am wondering if I should just cancel altogether.
Part of this change is because the JS doesn’t add any NEW insight. Why, for instance, didn’t we know more about the troubles Estrada was having last year until AFTER he was traded. How can someone be that hated and the beat writers don’t even report it!
by romagna on Jun 17, 2008 6:41 AM CDT 0 recs
Because he wasn't hated (?)
I would suspect that Estrada wasn’t actually hated last year, but that he became an easy scapegoat. You can’t blame a scapegoat for your problems until you send him away.
Either way, it’s crappy journalism. Scapegoating and gossip are not professional, but childish.
It's called "playing the percentages."
by hilbelink on
Jun 17, 2008 7:47 AM CDT
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Do you think he was hated by players, coaches, pitchers perhaps?
As for insights, they provide information not available elsewhere. I just read about another missed squeeze sign by Suppan. Maybe that’s elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it. Crazy, worthless idiots that they are, the quote monkeys asked Ned about whether there needs to be an acknowledgment sign by the batter, a rather hot topic on ESPN and WSSP.
by ol Pete on
Jun 17, 2008 8:04 AM CDT
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Keep Sundays
The coupons pay for the paper itself! :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on
Jun 17, 2008 4:55 PM CDT
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