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A Couple of Final Thoughts on the J-S

When I wrote my anti-Journal-Sentinel/Tom Haudricourt screed the other day, I wasn't planning on revisiting it, ever.  But I got more emails related to it than I'd ever gotten for one post on this site, and I wanted to add a few things.  Some of my new correspondents are in a better position to judge Haudricourt and Witrado than I am.

So here's what there is to add:

  1. As far as I can tell, no one likes Tom Haudricourt as a person.  Nobody.
  2. Tom actually thinks--and I quote: "The most respected blog on the Brewers is our blog on the JS."  Fantastic.

I do have one bit of potentially useful insight, too.

I've heard this before, but I was reminded: Tom is the one guy who challenges Ned in post-game pressers.  That, I suppose, is to be commended, especially if your biggest beef with the guy is that he's an apologist for the team.  (I never minded that--if I was living with these guys for six months out of the year, I'd only say nice things about them too.) 

This time, though, it made me think.  Haudricourt seems to be an insecure, unlikeable guy, and that's what Ned gets to deal with after every game.  I rarely hear Uecker's pre-game show, but when I was in Milwaukee last month, I caught one of them--Ned sounded pleasant, and didn't even say anything objectionable. 

My point is: I wonder if some of the testiness that some of us dislike so much in Yost stems from having to deal with Haudricourt?  That isn't entirely an excuse--some managers are better at dealing with that sort of thing than others, which is why a small group of guys seem to survive in New York--but it does do some explaining.

Ok.  Now that's out of my system, and I'm really done this time.

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um, Jeff

Haudricourt seems to be an insecure, unlikeable guy, and that’s what Ned gets to deal with after every game.

I think “Haudricourt” and “Ned” are interchangeable in this sentence.

by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 18, 2008 1:11 PM CDT   0 recs

hard to know

TH certainly comes off as a jerk, but it’s just hard to know or psychoanalyze somebody from blogs and second hand email accounts. Same goes for Ned.

What bothers me more are the comments on the blog profusely thanking him for doing his job, like they are some sort of peasants just happy for a crumb.

I actually think TH is way too easy on the Brewers. Compare TH to the New York media, for example, (not to say that that is the standard we should be shooting for by any means.) Witrado was at least willing to write negative comments about the team when they were losing.

by keephopealive on Jun 18, 2008 1:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Real journalists

Don’t go back and write again about things they’ve written and said they’re done with. :)

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 18, 2008 1:19 PM CDT   0 recs

He refuses to admit any wrong

I think is the problem… even in the case with BadgerBlogger he deflects it to the blog and gives a half a$$ excuse, (can we use that word without the $ by the way on this blog?) that his boss said it was okay to link to other blogs.

I was going to post an email exchange I had with him yesterday, but want to bring this matter to a rest. I think we all know that he is defensive and arrogant, although I couldn’t get him to admit he has ever made even a slight mistake.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 18, 2008 1:36 PM CDT   0 recs

i generally encourage langage to stay pg-13

but the blog itself doesn’t block anything.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 18, 2008 1:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am surprised

but they can say that on primetime TV… I guess nothing should surprise me these days on what appears on TV

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 18, 2008 3:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gak, the silly badgerblogger thing.

by ol Pete on Jun 18, 2008 3:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Here is a thought, TH is just

poor at his job. It is possible to be critical of something or disagree with someone and not just be a complete A-Hole about it.

That is one thing I do not get about the whole press vs blog depate. It seems like there is a lot of hurt feelings and anger. I think the MSM needs to lighten up, they write about sports for a living.

"You are only a success at the moment that you do a successful act"
-Tex Winter

by stork02 on Jun 18, 2008 1:40 PM CDT   0 recs

How many people do you know who know Haudricourt?

You make a pretty bold statement about him personally.

I have to say it is kind of odd when the rant-a-thon is in process, some people boldly declare that he is a blatant whore shilling for the team and doesn’t ask hard questions, yet you think maybe he is unlikable for asking hard questions.

You seem to be a big fan of Yost, but as far as sounding nice and all on WTMJ, what did you expect? Its a glorified extension of the team Brewers PR department.

by ol Pete on Jun 18, 2008 3:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Good point

He just may be defensive about how he is doing his job…

He thinks any critcism of him is an attack on how hard he works or a personal attack on who he is as a person… he ended one of he emails, “thanks for telling me how to do my job”

And it did make me think… what if some guy I never met emailing me and criticized the way I worked and analyzed financial statements at work (I know it is an exciting job)... I would probably be pretty angry too, short, and maybe a little arrogant, knowing this person who I have no idea is obsessed with every little detail of my job.

Bottom line he took a job which reaches millions of people (maybe not in the Journal’s case) but a lot. And that is what comes with the territory of being in the news media.

I have no idea who he is personally, but he may be a nice guy, who knows. It seems unlikely, but I am not going to make a definitive statement.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 18, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kguy, I was asking Jeff

but you give a thoughtful response. IMO, what you describe as his email responses is negative. Sounds bad.

I imagine that the thing has been beat to death though and I give credit to him for actually banging out responses at all. I’m sure he gets a ton and no one seems to want to go beyond “he should have called the Brewers” before he put it up on his blog. The thing to do would be to go to the SPJ or perhaps the Journal itself, find their ethical guidelines and articulate a complaint based on those.

I’m surprised nobody has called Bruce at badgerblogger. Does he really have sources close to the team?

by ol Pete on Jun 18, 2008 3:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay

From the SPJ ethics:

Journalists should:
  • Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
  • Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.

As to the first one, that would seem to say that Haudricourt should’ve checked into the rumor before posting and spreading it, especially if he has other sources inside the organization. For the second one, I haven’t heard of him seeking out anyone from Badger Blogger before calling them “irresponsible” and characterizing their post as a “danger of the internet.” But you know, whatever, I’m sure Badger Blogger did worse so Haudricourt should be excused for sinking to their level.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 18, 2008 4:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My $0.02

1. This is a tangent, but why do we really care if Yost is crusty with the press? I see this listed by the Ned-bashers all the time, and for the life of me, I don’t know why it matters.

If he handles his pitching staff, makes good lineup choices, makes fundamentally sound decisions during games, and the players play hard for him, who cares?

(Note: I am not saying that all of these things apply or don’t apply to Yost, but rather to the generality of the criticism.)

2. My biggest beef with regards to the baseball press is that frankly, many of them don’t really know their stuff. I hear things nearly every day from established broadcasters that any casual reader of TheHardballTimes, Baseball Prospectus, or the Baseball Abstract could tell you is just factually untrue. I heard someone the other day talking about the usual nonsense about how making contact was the #1 prerequisite for a #2 hitter…nothing about OBP or even the fact that lineup construction is overrated in terms of generating runs.

Would you accept a doctor that was not up to snuff on the most effective way to treat cancer? Would you hire a mechanic to work on your car that doesn’t understand modern diagnostic tools?

You don’t have to buy into every sabermetric concept nor discount the clubhouse intangibles to at least inform yourself about what is out there. If I am assigning some guy for my baseball beat at a paper, the first thing I am doing is plunking them down with a few well selected books so that they at least have a fundamental understanding of the game, something that some established beat writers don’t have. Just because Tommy Lasorda says something doesn’t mean it is correct (ask Fernando about pitcher abuse).

Even those reporters that do know their stuff (of which there are many of course) occasionally have a sort of arrogance towards the common fan. However, realize that the days of the beat writer being the sole source of info are long gone and access to the clubhouse is not what it once was. There are so many streams of info out there that it makes Jeff’s opinion on whether Ben Sheets should be signed just as valid as Hardricourt’s. I think the baseball writer’s sometimes have a hard time accepting this.

by badgermaniac on Jun 18, 2008 3:38 PM CDT   0 recs

crustiness

It’s not so much that he is condescending toward the press or fans, but that he uses that condescension to deflect legitimate criticism. Being dislikable compounds things when you’re open to other criticism as well.

by keephopealive on Jun 18, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well said

Part of me is irritated when the stereotypical beat writer comes across as threatened by the blog revolution. Then again, why should I/we care? Like you said, opinions on this blog can be just as carefully cultivated and valid as the beat writer’s, so why is it so important that the beat writer align with my belief system? Not to sound dismissive (because I do like reading the game stories), but I don’t need him anymore.

I know people will say “well, he’s closest to the team, so it’d be nice if he asked the right questions and understood the game of baseball with sabermetrics, etc.” But isn’t part of the argument for bloggers that clubhouse access isn’t needed to truly appreciate the game of baseball? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding that line of thinking.

Furthermore, I can’t say my enjoyment/fandom is truly altered just because the right pointed questions aren’t being asked of the players or manager. Thus, if the beat writer falls short of what I consider the standard of baseball understanding, then so what? The writer is servicing the casual fan more than me, anyway, and I know places to go where I can get what I want, short of a few things.

Journalism has already changed to the point where blogs/new media pervade pretty much every facet, so if a writer from the days of yore says something hateful about our kind, then he’s the guy who looks stupid, not the blog.

For the record, I love Haudricourt’s style and think he does a perfectly adequate job. But he’s definitely not my only source of Brewers coverage.

by Et tu Brewte on Jun 18, 2008 4:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t get me wrong. Beat writers provide an important function and one that I appreciate. They can offer things that the bloggers/book writers cannot because of their access. My point is simply that just because they have access does not mean that their knowledge trumps all others, which is the way that some seem to present themselves.

For instance, my opinion that Rickie Weeks has been unlucky due to his abnormally low BABIP is just as valid as a beat writer noting that he isn’t getting the job done using some vague traditional sportswriter baseball verbage.

I think that some beat writers still believe they are analysts, when many are simply not qualified to do so. They are reporters. They serve a different function than the beat writers of 30 years ago.

I guess my ire is also directed at TV folk, who regularly show a fundamental lack of understanding of the finer points of the game. Just because you were a good player does not necessarily mean you understand the game better than I do. You could just hit a curveball and I couldn’t.

by badgermaniac on Jun 18, 2008 4:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think “TH is going to report on the story of Prince’s back taxes” is a little more appropriate than “going after fielder on backtaxes tomorrow…”
I can’t imagine it is going to be groundbreaking material.
Not trying to diss you or whatever. just promoting accuracy

by Kocchatollah on Jun 19, 2008 12:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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