Hall requests trade
"Bill Hall wants out.
Hall's agent, Terry Bross, said Monday that he believes it would be best for both the Milwaukee Brewers and his client if Hall is traded to another club where he could play regularly."
over 3 years ago
battlekow
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Throw in Eveland and Krynzel
and we have a match!
Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"
I miss Daron.
:(
The Brewers were so much more fun to watch with him calling the game.
AAAAaaaffflac, aaaask about it at work
Hall, Villanueva, and a First Round Draft Pick
for Scott Rolen?
Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"
Final trade proposal
Hall and four Matt LaPortas for Brian FUentes.
Hopefully Doug Melvin is reading this.
Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"
I think that any trade involving Bill Hall would involve two things:
1. Us throwing wads of cash towards another team and
2. Us taking a risk on a player we thing just needs a “change of scenery”.
Two knee jerk responses:
1) Too damn bad (also known as the Branyan’s due to start sucking any moment now response).
2) Want to play ever day? Play better. (Also known as the get a grip response).
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 2, 2008 10:42 PM CDT reply actions
hall
i wish i could be unhappy about hitting .220 and continuing to make 6 million a year
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
Realistically, though:
What about the Dodgers as a trade partner? I see two good reasons why they would:
1. Being in LA, they would be able to take on a contract.
2. Chin-Lung Hu.
Stale joke alert
Are you suggesting we trade for Hu? Because I’m pretty sure we’ve already got an established first baseman, and I can’t see Hu playing elsewhere.
C. Magruder scored, R. Weeks to second on balk
Ship him to Baltimore
There’s a lot of overpriced relievers there and we know how the front office likes that sort of thing.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
do they still have Aquino?
"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost
by SunglassesAtNight on Jun 2, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I've got a trade partner that might want him!
The Kansas City Royals.
And, now that I look at it, as The Jay said, the Orioles.
Both teams would have to put Hall at shortstop, but that is his “natural position”, anyway.
The royals have Tony Pena at shortstop and the Orioles have Freddie Bynum. They are hitting .155 and .210 respectively, with little or no power.
To think a team might be relieved to have Bill Hall!
My Trade Offer
Bill Hall (and, most likely, cash) to the Kansas City Royals for:
Jimmy Gobble and a A-Ball middle of the road prospect or Former prospect not living up to potential
and upon hearing the news, cirillo heads straight to the gym
i hate how much say players who are under contract seem to think they have. i can understand bill’s position, but he has to realize that he can’t expect the brewers to just give into him with his trade value so low (especially now that everyone knows he wants out)
what doug and ned need to do is sit hall down and explain to him they they will look into trades, but they still have plans for him with this team and won’t just give him away unless they can work out a deal that benefits the team. that being said, his value isn’t very high and he shouldn’t expect to go anywhere soon. then, give him two options:
1.) if he wants to play every day, he can try going back to the super-utility role he was in 3 years ago and see how he does. or,
2.) continue platooning with branyan and, well, shut the hell up
i understand where he’s coming from in the sense that he’s done everything they’ve asked him to do in terms of moving around the field and constantly switching positions. and for that, he should be getting a little bit of loyalty in return. i understand that. but ultimately, it comes down to production and he just isn’t getting it done. hall should just suck it up and wait it out another week or so before Branyan comes back down to earth and he’s our everyday 3rd baseman once again.
"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost
by SunglassesAtNight on Jun 2, 2008 11:16 PM CDT reply actions
short-sighted
Hall should have just kept his mouth shut. The Brewers are finally winning and to complain just looks bad. He’s has definitely been a disappointed both at the plate and in the field, but if he just waited it out, eventually Branyan’s lack of MLB talent would catch up with him, and Hall would probably be playing regularly anyway.
I was always in the minority thath thought we should have kept Braun at third and Hall at center anyway. I can’t see the great benefit that Cameron is providing us, especially in the two hole behind Rickie.
Excellent point
Terry Bross, Bill E.’s agent, must not have a PR background.
Here’s how it looks to the average: Hall benched -> Branyan hits 450-foot bombs -> Brewers start winning—> Hall requests trade.
Booooooo!
for who?????
We wouldn’t get squat for Hall right now. He is getting paid way too much and he isn’t producing at all.
If the Brewers can sit on him for a while, maybe he can get hot and then give him his wish. I don’t think he will ever live up to his contract.
well
he might not ever live up to his contract, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t still provide value.
hall to the Pads for Maddux. make it happen.
"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost
by SunglassesAtNight on Jun 2, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
...
i’m listening to wssp and a caller is saying counsell should start at third because he’s gritty…oyy
"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue
there really should be a permanent repository for great radio call in comments
I’m still kind of fond of the one the guy made about the Brewers not having enough gap hitters.
AL shortstops suck bad
I’d guess he’d land there if anywhere…don’t know who has a bad SS and decent AAA / back of the rotation SP though.
Would that make Branyan an everyday guy?
I love Russell
I really do. But he can’t hit lefties. He needs a platoon mate. Though Dillon would probably be very happy in that role.
by dixieflatline on Jun 3, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Give Nelson a shot
And move Gamel (and LaPorta) up to Nashville.
Of course, the thing players (and strangely, agents) don’t seem to realize is that by declaring that they want out, they make it very difficult to trade them for any value.
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
Value
The thing is, if the player feels like the team doesn’t value him, why let them profit? Generally guys requesting trades aren’t on the most friendly terms with their teams, so sinking their trade value while making it increasingly difficult to play them is kind of a way at screwing the team. I’m sure Hall’s trade value is the same now as it was coming into today—teams know he wants out of Milwaukee, but they also know there’s nothing forcing Doug Melvin’s hand. If anything, it’s the idea that he’s some sort of bad teammate or has a bad attitude for wanting out that hurts Hall’s reputation now because I’m sure there are plenty of people who will never let it go (probably even some in baseball).
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
A good trading partner
The St. Louis Cardinals have zero power in their middle infield. They liked Hall during the off-season…perhaps Melvin could cook something up with them. Anthony Reyes has not had much success in the big leagues, but he’s pitching well in the minors again. A change of scenery could do well for both. I have other possible interested partners, but too long to post here.
Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.
someone with grit
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm suprised it took this long
My prediction was that Hall would be gone last winter, after the mini-benching he got last summer because Ned was hacked-off at him. Before we start throwing Bill E under the bus, remember this is a guy that has changed positions every year for the past four at the teams request. He has been a professional, and never publicly complained about wanting one position. He has hinted he would like some consistency but has gone with the ‘whatever is best for the team’ line for public consumption.
There are every day players who are performing worse than Hall who are in no danger of being benched or platooned, but it’s Hall who is missing 60-70% of the games because of the ‘soft’ platoon and the hot hand fallacy that Ned will be riding for the rest of the season. I’d be pissed too if this was what I got for sacrificing for the best of the team, especially when we all know that over the long haul Bill E is a better option over Branyan.
by Getting Yosted on Jun 3, 2008 7:17 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Clearly its no big deal
That’s why it’s done so often. There are no differences between playing SS, 3B and CF. SS and 3B are only 30 ft apart, how hard could it be? CF is just running under a ball, all sorts of reaction time. So easy, anyone could do it. I’m suprised the defensive positions aren’t assigned randomly five minutes before the game, then randomly reassigned every inning.
And I don’t get why the players are allowed to only bat one way. They should be required to be switch hitters. How hard could it be?
by Getting Yosted on Jun 3, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
He had to sacrifice
working on some parts of his game to work on the now unnecessary skills of playing SS and CF. The most likely part of his game that he sacrificed is his hitting, but it is likely that he sacrficed working on the needed footwork to make the throws to first from 3B and he lost practice time to learn the instincts needed to make the bang-bang plays at 3B. He has sacrificed his potential top production to learn skills that are no longer necessary because the organization no longer needs them. He is a lesser player in probably every aspect of the game (except for positional flexibility) because he did what the organization asked him to do.
And given all that he’s probably still the best SS on the 25 man roster.
by Getting Yosted on Jun 3, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
You make it sound like taking flyballs and practicing in the outfield is some sort of detriment. It could be argued that it made him a better all around player and enhanced his skills at other positions. It could be that he is a greater player in every aspect of the game.
I don’t believe that taking flyballs and learning CF last year makes him a worse infielder this year. And when you say “lesser player” are you saying his hitting this year is poor because of last year?
It certainly is
If you’re expected to play 3B. You assume that baseball skills are fungible because in little league you play everywhere. At the level we are talking about, the skill set is incredibly specialized and if you want to compete/not embarrass yourself you need to spend a lot of time perfecting that skill set. The time perfecting this new skill set is time you don’t have to develop the rest of your game. It is in essence lost time, and you are behind your competition because of it. Pick an aspect of the game, and it is impacted. It might just lead to having less accurate throws and increase the number of errors you are charged with.
Or not, because ol Pete says he doesn’t believe it.
by Getting Yosted on Jun 3, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I don’t assume baseball skills are fungible because in little league you play everywhere. Actually I don’t assume either of those elements. In fact, the Brewers practice at different positions if Davey Nelson is to be believed.
And like I say, it could be “gained” time rather than lost. For instance he may read pop flys better or catch over his head better.
So if I read you correctly, Billy is fielding and throwing at a level that is less than it would be if he remained at a single position and because of that he will suffer some sort of consequences like being platooned perhaps? If that is true, I still don’t see a “sacrifice.”
the position change
doesn’t seem to be hurting Ryan Braun all that much…
Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.
Let's keep asking him to move through 2010 then
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Looks like I picked a good week to go on vacation
I hope they move him. I already have a Giants sweatshirt from a game I attended earlier this year, so that would be a good spot.
by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 3, 2008 7:59 AM CDT reply actions
Hall for Lincecum
even up. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Not quite
Here’s my comment at FNY:
Lets’ see….The Brewers have never liked Hall (since he was blocked by Hardy, Koskie/Braun, and Cameron his whole career). The Giants made a huge mistake signing Zito to huge money, and they could use Hall’s bat just about anywhere. So, the Giants ship Zito, his bloated contract and a big pile of cash (big pile >= $40 million) to the Brewers for Hall.
If Maddux is the genius everyone thinks he is, he ought to be able to make Zito at least as effective as Suppan, who is our benchmark for $10 million/year pitchers.
The only way the Brewers move him is by taking advantage of the disappointments of some other teams. Still, this one is a reach.
by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 3, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Hall for Zito
although it would tickle my bad folk music funny bone, would make me vomit in ways of such violence, I am sure a time warp would happen and the Nazis would win.
Dear Bill Hall
We love you. Earn your god damn playing time back or shut up.
Bill Hall, last 14 games
.313/.346/.479
by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 3, 2008 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Just stop that
You are only allowed to cherry-pick stats that support Branyan or whomever the media are fawning over this week.
Who cares that over the last 31 PA Hall’s line is 393/419/464? We only want to be dazzled by the line Branyan has put up over his massive 32 PA.
by Getting Yosted on Jun 3, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
small samples be damned
it seems like an argument for the platoon that we’re using more than anything
by keephopealive on Jun 3, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Heh
Bill Hall, 2005-2008: .267/.330/.486, .816 OPS
MLB 3B, 2005-2008: .273/.342/.444, .786 OPS
He’s not above average enough, I guess.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Ok.
But what are those numbes like over the last year and a third? I know it’s not fair to cherry pick stats, but ‘06 has a lot to do with the fact that his OPS is above average for 3B the last three years.
Also, I’m not sure it matters and it might even make him look better, but it tickles my brain a bit that we’re comparing him to other third basemen from ‘05-’08 when he’s only played 3B regularly for 2 months of that time frame.
I get frustrated with Hall, but I don’t want him dealt this season. I just don’t think that makes the team better.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 3, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Bill Hall 2007-8
.246/.309/.423
Don't try to do too much with it. Just take the ball the other way.
by shooty babitt on Jun 3, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
But if he is a third baseman on this team
Why not compare to the standard of third basemen around the league? Sure, we could look at how he compared to utility players in 2005, shortstops in 2006, centerfielders in 2007, and third basemen this year, but if his role is to play third base going forward, I think it’s better to look at how he compares to third basemen. It’s not as if Ryan Braun’s performance this season would be compared to everyone playing third base because he’s spent more time in his career at that spot.
Also, it wasn’t only the one season that drove his OPS upwards—2005 was above average as well, though not to the same degree.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
i agree
with the “what have you done for me lately look” throw out 2006 cause that was two years ago. throw out 2007.
if we really want to get a sense with how Hall stacks up with other 3b, let’s look at his most recent at bat. then the old data won’t affect his current OPS.
Bill Hall, most recent AB
0-1 .000/.000/.000
doesn’t that state your case better than looking at 2007-2008?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
But how well did he sleep last night?
That’s what’s really important here.
He's extremely quick and good.
Not just lately
2007-8 covers over a year and third and about 720 plate appearances. No, we don’t throw out 2006, but those recent 720 plate appearances sure do drag down what we should realistically expect from Bill Hall.
There is a writer over at THT who has been working on true talent levels. It’s basically a running projection system. Clearly Bill Hall’s projection numbers (and “true talent level”) would be in a noticeable decline.
Don't try to do too much with it. Just take the ball the other way.
by shooty babitt on Jun 3, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
that's a really great article
thanks for pointing it out; can’t believe I missed it.
I probably have the data to do this fairly easily; it would certainly be interesting to see how some of our guys-namely Hall and Hardy-look in this view.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 3, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
ooooh, ooooh!
And plug in Fielder, too, please. And Hart. And maybe Weeks.
by Marty McSuperFly on Jun 3, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
consider your requests...
noted. perhaps even granted someday :).
i may get to work on this tonight. one cool thing is that i’m chatting with the publisher of one of the offseason annuals to include month-by-month projections for the entire career of just about all active players.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 3, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah..
... because looking at the last 1.33 seasons instead of the the last 3 is EXACTLY like analyzing his worth from 1AB. I don’t want him traded and i’d actually like to see him back at SS (which isn’t going to happen), but I think anyone who expects Hall’s OPS to ratchet back up to 2006 levels is kidding themselves. If you don’t agree, that’s cool. But Players don’t give written notice of fluke years or sudden declines and you get stuck with trying to figure out what the future holds for that player based on your own observations. The numbers don’t always predict those changes. Sometimes the pitchers in the league make adjustments to a hitter and the hitter never responds because he won’t or can’t. I don’t know if that’s what happened to Hall after 2006 or not, but my eyes tell me he’s not .800 OPS guy now, hasn’t been one for a while, and he’s not going to be one for a full season anytime soon.
I’m far from an expert, and I’d love it if I’m wrong, but that’s what I think. Even after your oh-so-glib response.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jun 3, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Well its not entirely a matter of expecting him to hit like that. No matter how much any of us shout at him to pick up the slack its up to him to do it. It’s just that he shouldn’t be whining for a trade simply because hes not getting the playing time he wants. He’s not performing and knows it as well as supposedly understanding the point of the platoon. It just seems as if he’s completely ignoring the fact that his play right now is awful and he feels like he’s entitled to start every day and his numbers don’t matter.
"You have no honor!" - McClung to Fukudome
Bill Hall
1998-2003 (Minors): .305 OBP/.388 SLG/.693 OPS, 36 HR, 2160 AB
2002-2005: .310 OBP/.442 SLG/.752 OPS, 32 HR, 1069 AB
2006: .345 OBP/.553 SLG/.898 OPS, 35 HR, 537 AB
2007-2008: .309 OBP/.422 SLG/.731 OPS, 23 HR, 637 AB
Never was all that good.
What about the White Socks
Not sure where they would put him, but Ozzie wants some changes.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
That's Andy
Adam is his brother, the guy on the Pirates with the swing that is several minutes long.
He's extremely quick and good.
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Houston
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