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Bite the Sabathia bullet?

As the trading deadline nears, many teams in baseball will be looking to buy or sell, depending on recent success.

As we all have hoped, the Brewers are competing quite well and are in the market as a potential buyer. With the farm system stocked with prime players (thanks to wonderful scouting and drafting), the Brewers hold several valuable trade chips that could just bring in the missing piece to the 2008 Series puzzle.

The question is this: What should the Brewers do? Hold tight to the prospects or make a move to finally overtake the Cubs and pound them into submission? C.C. Sabathia, as you all know, will most likely become the most coveted prize of this summer's trading frenzy. Will he be too overpriced and the better option may be to go for a smaller name, like Rich Harden, but just as effective, or break the bank and go for it all with Sabathia?

Poll
Should the Brewers take one for the 2008 season and trade for C.C. Sabathia?
  • Yes, no limits.
  • Yes, only if no big name prospects are given up.
  • Keep the team how it is
  • Trade for a lesser big time pitcher

  411 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 126 comments

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I wouldn't mind giving up either Gamel or LaPorta

It would suck, but…. sometimes, shit’s gotta get done.

I WANT GALLARDO BACK.

I'll warm up with you anytime

by ufoboy90 on Jun 27, 2008 12:36 AM CDT   0 recs

But not both

CC is a prize, but I don’t want to rent him for 60+ days. If we could have gotten him in December, it would have been easier to swallow a couple of blue chippers

by Saberilliterate on Jun 27, 2008 8:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rich Harden

Isn’t he one of the few pitchers to get hurt more often than Sheets the past few seasons?

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 27, 2008 12:48 AM CDT   0 recs

Can't we try to get Cliff Lee instead?

Just casually looking at stats, our very own Dave Bush is better at keeping runners off the bases this year than Sabathia.

I’m with the Greinke fanboys over here. If you’re going to trade the farm, trade it for someone who either isn’t eligible for free agency or has a contract remaining for a few more years, not another Scott Linebrink case. I

by morineko on Jun 27, 2008 12:52 AM CDT   0 recs

More importantly

Is your grandmother attracted to immense black men?

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 1:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think she's seen Sabathia pitch

...but she thinks McClung is too fat, so that should give you a baseline ;)

How’d half my post go missing? I had said that nobody appeared happy with the results of the Linebrink trade-the relievers were still useless and in the end, no playoffs for the Brewers, no major-league-ready pitchers for the Padres-oh, well, draft picks are nice.

by morineko on Jun 27, 2008 2:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kevin Millwood/Vicente Padilla

This article from a couple days ago speculates-I don’t know how informedly-that the Brewers could be interested in either.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 1:39 AM CDT   0 recs

is Millwood up for sale, though?

He’s about the only thing on the Rangers I could justify describing with the word “pitcher.” However, I have to wonder about the skills of a guy who requires Gerald Laird as his personal catcher.

by morineko on Jun 27, 2008 2:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

depends

on management’s intentions with Sheets. If they think they can keep both Sheets and Sabathia together for a couple of years (unlikely, I know), I say whatever it takes. If not, I’d still like to see us go for it, but only if we don’t give up too much of our future. I’d be willing to part with either of the Matts, but obviously not both. Still not sure what I would make of a Sabathia/Fielder swap. I tend to think we would be giving up too much right now. In time, we could make up for the loss of prince with Gamel and LaPorta, but not this early.

Sheets
Sabathia
Gallardo
Suppan
TBD

Good lord, i’m salavating.

"You guys know me. I take a long time to analyze things."
- Ned Yost

by SunglassesAtNight on Jun 27, 2008 10:57 AM CDT   0 recs

You know Gagne's contract is up at the end of the year

That is a cool $10 mil off the books. Fielder will get a chunk of that as will Hart and Weeks but probably not all of it. Also, Cam’s contract is up and Cappy’s might have to be DFA’ed. We would have to dig deep but that might be possible. Kendall is going to get enough playing time to kick in his option though right?

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jun 27, 2008 1:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$$$

There is little chance the Brewers could afford Sheets OR CC…both? Good thought, but no way.

by Big In 2015 on Jun 27, 2008 9:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not sure I see the Indians making a play for Fielder. If Prince is determined to hit the open market, the Tribe would be in roughly the same position with him that you guys are, except closer to the end of his years under control. I see how that would be attractive to the Brewers, trading a year and change of a star bat for half a year of a star arm, but I’d like to think Shapiro wants longer-term value.

I realize that seems a little contradictory with my comment below—that the Indians want help that’s ready next year. I guess the answer is that those goals aren’t mutually exclusive: We want a guy who’s ready to contribute next year, AND ALSO somebody who will be able to stay with the team. C.C. doesn’t have a no-trade clause, so if luck’s on our side, the bidding will be high enough that we find a deal which solves both problems

by fleerdon on Jun 27, 2008 10:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No kidding? Obviously I didn’t look into it—just kind of figured when I heard he might be on the block this winter. Sorry to be ignorant. So it’s just arbitration issues that would put him on the block? Bummer.

In any event, the Indians are also broke. So I guess I should add “cheap” to the list of things we’re shopping for.

by fleerdon on Jun 28, 2008 12:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What I don't see

is that the Indians don’t have much use for first base/DH types either.

by Braunstalker on Jun 27, 2008 11:34 AM CDT   0 recs

Option 5 in Poll

- Trade for this guy (or someone like him)

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 11:50 AM CDT   0 recs

Rotoworld mentions Greinke as a possible guy the Brewers are interested in.

However, the Royals need to get a lot in return. They mention Gamel PLUS Escobar or Salome.

by brewfan2 on Jun 27, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Usually I'm extremely protective of our prospects

for example, I wouldn’t give up any of the main four AA position players for Sabathia. But for Greinke- whatever it takes.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would trade Gamel and Salome for Greinke.

Not sure about Gamel and Escobar. Gamel might not stick at 3rd and I hear he might not be as good in the outfield as LaPorta or Braun. That means first base. Salome might not stick at catcher and if he can’t stick there that means DH. Escobar will stick at SS making his value higher than Salome IMO.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jun 27, 2008 1:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Would they take major league talent instead?

Instead of Escobar/Salome, would they take Hardy and/or a guy that is ML ready like Gwynn? The thing that gives the Brewers so many options is that they can either trade away prospects or trade away major league caliber starters and promote prospects as replacements without missing much. A team like the Royals may not love the fact that JJ only has a few years of team control left, but they are getting a known commodity in return and they should be able to sign him to a four year deal relatively cheaply.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 27, 2008 1:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Royals aren't going to trade Greinke for our scraps

Hardy and Gwynn are OK, but they want a superstar, not decency. Prince for Greinke would be much more realistic.

by brewfan2 on Jun 27, 2008 1:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was thinking Gamel or LaPorta plus those two

They want superstar potential, but we can also send them major league talent instead of Escobar or Salome.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 27, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would be fine with

A Gamel and Salome trade, but I’m not feeling the Gamel and Escobar option. Interesting thought, if Prince eventually gets flipped for someone, who makes a better 1st base option…LaPorta or Gamel?

"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."

by MadJimiBrewha on Jun 27, 2008 2:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LaPorta was a pretty good defensive 1B in college, but Gamel is more athletic

You’d probably see LaPorta to first and Gamel possibly replacing him in one of the corner OF spots, though the team would still obviously love to have him stick at third in that scenario.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 2:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Heck, A Zinger?

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 27, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

(scratch the "someone like him")

I want Zack Greinke.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i hate to bust your bubbles

but MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that Grienke is not leaving Kansas City. In fact, they are trying to rework his contract.

Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.

by jimmyb1799 on Jun 27, 2008 4:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh dear

if its on MLBTR, it must be true!

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 27, 2008 7:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

Now leading off for the Cubs: second baseman…

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 27, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They kinda said that

but they also said this last week:

While the Royals don’t seem to consider Zack Greinke untouchable, they’d have to be bowled over to trade him.

I think LaPorta, Salome, Gillespie and another piece could definitely ‘bowl them over’.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 28, 2008 8:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

in other words

it’s a negotiating ploy.

we go through this every year with some player or another, and what the GMs say at the end of June has very little to do with who ends up getting traded.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 28, 2008 8:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

fair point

but wouldn’t you think that we should give up prospects for someone a little more proven than Greinke? he’s been great this season, but inconsistent at best before that. i’m still a little nervous about his mentality on the mound.

Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.

by jimmyb1799 on Jun 28, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Greinke has excellent stuff, excellent scouting reports, and excellent stats

He’s also cheap for the next two years. There just isn’t really a better option, realistically.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 28, 2008 9:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except for that

Turnbow for Lincecum trade I’ve secretly been brokering.

"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder

by SRB on Jun 28, 2008 12:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BPro on Sabathia
WC: What about the Brewers, and how does the potential loss of two ace-level pitchers to free agency factor in? Giving Jack Zduriencik that many picks sounds interesting.

KG: Giving Jack Z. a lot of picks is always a dangerous thing—for other teams. Milwaukee has some good fits potentially for Cleveland. They might be interested in mid-level catching prospects like Jon Lucroy and Angel Salome, a glove-first shortstop like Alcides Escobar who has shown some offensive sings of life this year, and the Brewers also have some decent arms they might be able to throw in. Don’t forget that with Matt LaPorta coming quickly and Mat Gamel mashing at Double-A but looking more and more like and first base/DH type defensively, the Brewers are close to having too many bats and not enough positions, so somebody is going to have to go.

link (sub. req.)

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 2:00 PM CDT   0 recs

Let's see if I have this right

If the Crew did end up trading for Sabathia and didn’t resign him or Sheets, they will have 5 picks in the first 50 or so picks?

"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."

by MadJimiBrewha on Jun 27, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget about Cameron

If he goes to another team, we probably get a decent pick too, and maybe, just maybe, Gagne could be considered a Linebrink type free agent and we get even more.

by brewfan2 on Jun 27, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Other free agents-to-be

Kendall, Mota, Torres, Counsell, Shouse, Kapler, Branyan, and Choate.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 2:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Choate

for some reason I thought he was younger.

I’m assuming Kendall is going to reach his extension bench mark and will be back next year, assuming he wants to be.

Would any of those guys net compensation picks?

"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."

by MadJimiBrewha on Jun 27, 2008 2:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Torres, I'm sure

Branyan, who knows?

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 27, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

crap!

Torres will price himself out of our market probably, now that he’s a “proven closer.” We’ll be able to get Shouse back, I’m sure, and don’t really care about Mota, but man it’d be nice to have Torres for next year.

by warwick5s on Jun 27, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Torres

does have an option for next year, I’m not sure on the money amount.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Player or club?

"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."

by MadJimiBrewha on Jun 27, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Team option

around $4 mil

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 3:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$3.75, with a $0.3 buyout

so essentially a $3.5MM decision. If his arm doesn’t literally fall off, I think we’ll be exercising that one.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 27, 2008 3:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

from fruit loops and bile AKA the other BCB

“These other teams, (if you are talking about the Brewers), have no reason to even realistically try to get Sabathia. The Brewers are interested mainly to drive up the price for the Cubs & Angels. Most other teams won’t have the dollars to sign Sabathia. The Cubs have a unique combination of money & prospects.”

by ol Pete on Jun 27, 2008 2:05 PM CDT   0 recs

Literally laughed out loud there

(and everyone around me wondered what the heck was going on)

"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."

by MadJimiBrewha on Jun 27, 2008 2:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

haven't been over there in a while, this is a good one

Go visit the Evil BCB sometime.
They actually follow Cubs games and fly the L flag when the Cubs lose. Seriously. For this reason alone, I wouldn’t mind seeing Wrigley Field do away with it.
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 27, 2008 11:23 AM

Um Daver
I prefer to refer to them as the "totally weak assed, bitch and moan, we ban people for thinking otherwise her BCB".
Don’t know who you are referring to!
by Kinky Reggae on Jun 27, 2008 11:38 AM CDT

by warwick5s on Jun 27, 2008 2:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hadn't been over there in a while either

Its so hard to visit because there are always numerous long protracted pissing matches over anything or nothing.

by ol Pete on Jun 27, 2008 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well...they gotta love

that we’ve started to fly an anti-Cards banner too:)

In any case, can we give the Indians (or Royals) two draft picks or players-to-be-named later:P

by PagsBrewCrew on Jun 27, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

man, are we ever powerful

He wants to see them do away with the flag simply because we’re flying it, too? Awesome.

by Zeyes on Jun 27, 2008 3:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well...

it is a unique combination of money and prospects, of sorts. Though probably not in the way that fellow meant.

by Zeyes on Jun 27, 2008 3:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Seem to think that

Jason Marquis, Eric Patterson, Rich Hill, Matt Murton and a few others can get Greinke, Harden or Sabathia.

I enjoy being the fan of the team with good prospects and little money more than I would being the fan of the team with loads of money and no prospects.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cubs feel like a long shot on Sabathia to me...

...and it would probably take a package starting with Sean Gallagher, maybe adding in a catching prospect like Castillo or Donaldson. Even then, if I were the Indians I’d probably rather have LaPorta or Gamel, depending on how I projected Gamel at third.

by cwyers on Jun 27, 2008 7:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol.

Josh Donaldson, college catcher, my breakout pick this year, putting up a sub .700 ops in low a.

zero value!

I'll warm up with you anytime

by ufoboy90 on Jun 29, 2008 12:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wouldn't it make more sense

to target an elite reliever rather than a starter, assuming we’re looking to give up prospects? We already have an above average rotation anchored by one of the best pitchers in the National League (in the middle of a Cy Young season if he stays healthy and Volzquez falls back down to earth).

On the other hand, we have one reliever in our entire bullpen who doesn’t hemorrhage runs in every appearance. Our bullpen currently has a higher ERA than our starting rotation, which certainly can’t be good. If our defeat in 1982 has taught us anything, it’s not to rely on a single reliever!

"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder

by SRB on Jun 27, 2008 4:37 PM CDT   0 recs

im not sure who SRB meant in his post...

but Fuentes, Rafael Perez, and Heath Bell could all be had at the trade deadline for the right price.

Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.

by jimmyb1799 on Jun 27, 2008 4:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know about Bell...

Hoffman seems to be quickly running out of gas and Bell may be stepping in soon.

by brewfan2 on Jun 27, 2008 5:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yes, but...

the padres GM Kevin Towers is not one to leave anyone untouchable when they are struggling so much. it wouldn’t be worth the haul we’d have to give up, but i think bell could be had if DM reeeeally wanted him. oh…i think rafael betancourt is available too. along with huston street, obviously.

Come check out BrewersNation, a new Brewers blog that keeps you up to date on ALL Brewers news and rumors.

by jimmyb1799 on Jun 28, 2008 9:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you mean

FUentes

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 27, 2008 6:13 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

I traded for Bell on MLB '08: The Show

He’s my best set-up guy.
Though, the Rays also accepted my trade offer of Dave Bush straight up for: Scott Kazmir.
And I got Lincecum for, I think, Bill Hall.

I love that game. :)

by NoahJ on Jun 29, 2008 1:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure

I didn’t have anyone in mind when I posted, and maybe there aren’t any quality relievers available. But if we’re talking about trading our top prospects for a rental, it seems like Sabathia would be less useful than a reliever this season.

Off the top of my head, the Mariners would probably be willing to discuss Putz, though I’m not necessarily saying that would be a good idea what with his injuries and performance this season.

"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder

by SRB on Jun 27, 2008 8:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You don't trade prospects for relievers

Unless we’re talking Eck or Rivera in their primes. The others just fall apart so quick it isn’t worth the risk. You can trade spare parts or guys that just don’t fit your philosophy but legitimate prospects should never be moved for a reliever.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 27, 2008 5:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a rental, correct?

You don’t sign relievers to long contracts, but even if we traded for Sabathia it would only be for the remainder of this season.

"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder

by SRB on Jun 27, 2008 8:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bullpen/starter ERA

Lucky for us the Cardinals are in the same boat, except their rotation ERA is 3.95 vs. a bullpen ERA of 4.30. The Brewers have 4.08 and 4.12, respectively.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jun 27, 2008 5:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Visiting Cubs fan, so take this with a grain of salt.

But I’m presuming – just looking at B-Ref – that your rotation is Sheets, Parra, Suppan, McClung and Bush, not necessarily in that order – but I’m confident that Bush is last in that alignment.

Since we’re talking a rental situation – and let’s ignore for a second externalities like draft picks – the main thing you want to look at is value over Dave Bush. If you get Sabathia, then you turn Dave Bush into a reliever, and Bush probably wouldn’t be a bad reliever; pitchers generally do better when they move to the pen.

In that sense, you get by far the most value out of Sabathia. You get a lot more innings, if nothing else.

by cwyers on Jun 27, 2008 7:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, folks, just stopping in from Let’s Go Tribe. Former MKE resident, big Brew Crew fan.

I won’t presume to speak for Mark Shapiro—as a general rule, we know which guys he’s going to trade, but not his targets. That said, what’s happened to the Indians is a minor failure, for various reasons, of a generation of position player talent that was supposed to be contributing now. (Let’s put it this way: Mildly talented guys like Francisco, Choo, and Garko were not supposed to be keystones in our lineup at this point.)

We’ve probably got the arms for 2009, but with Victor Martinez’s health in question, and Travis Hafner’s entire career up in the air, we’ve got some big offensive holes to fill at the ML level. So I can say with reasonable confidence that we’re shopping for high-ceiling corner bats ready no later than next year. I won’t pretend to be well-read about your system, but you’ve got to figure this will take at least one of your upper-level, top-flight bats. Otherwise, what’s the point? We’ve got some guys who should be ready in 2010, 2011; it’s next year we’re worried about.

by fleerdon on Jun 27, 2008 7:48 PM CDT   0 recs

LaPorta could definitely be ready to start next year

He fits what the Indians want, he’s cheap, ready to start next year, can play 3/4 of the corner positions, and he has tremendous power (he might lead the whole minors in homers this year). The question is whether we want to give him up for a rental like Sabathia, if there are any pitchers available who have years left on their contract. Though we are in the race this year, we’re in the same boat in regards to money and window of opportunity.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jun 28, 2008 8:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I get where you’re coming from. I’d be salivating over the chance to see the Brewers’ current class of hitters mature at the same time myself.

I will say this. My experiences, particularly over the last 4 years, tell me, if you’ve got the right chance in baseball, you have to take it. “Windows of opportunity” look a lot longer when you’re in the race and guys are healthy. Take the Indians’ 2007 vs. 2008 as a cautionary tale though: You really don’t ever know when your two of your three best hitters and two of your top three starters will all go down in the same season, and teams like ours don’t have the resources to fill those holes on the fly. I understand that you guys aren’t the ones pulling the trigger, but knowing what I know now … I get why the Brewers would do this, too.

by fleerdon on Jun 28, 2008 2:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As an aside, about Sabathia’s price: We’ve debated this at length over at LGT, and here’s what we came up with.

1. C.C.’s really, really good. I know this seems lik