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Around SBN: Uga VII, Requiescat in Pace: A Tribute to a Damn Good 'Dawg

Matt LaPorta

I'm here from McCovey Chronicles to get some insight on this guy, specifically, what it would take for the Brewers to trade him.  This has been discussed at length here but it seems like none of us really has a great idea what you guys would need/want in return for him.  I know one thing that's been thrown out is Jonathan Sanchez and Bengie Molina for LaPorta and Bill Hall.  That's probably not giving up enough on the Giants' end to get it done but hopefully it can at least be a starting point for a discussion on the topic.  Any insight is appreciated.  Thanks for putting up with me.

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We can work that!

Send over Sanchez and Molina. You may not know but we have 9 LaPorta’s, they often take the field together (a 9 LaPorta lineup) down in Huntsville to give Gamel and the boys a day off. I am sure for your 2 players we can trade one of our LaPorta’s.

The Wallbangers won because they played the game like kids! Let's do that again!!!

by 80badger on Jun 6, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For Cain or Lincecum, sure

but if one of those two aren’t included you’re just wasting time. The team doesn’t need to trade LaPorta, so there isn’t going to be a fire sale. When you’re OPSing 1.200 in your first year of pro ball, you don’t get traded for #3/#4 starters and a light hitting catcher. Sorry. You would be better served to inquire about Prince. Weirdly, he would come cheaper(but still costing more than you are proposing) as he is closer to FA and everyone knows he isn’t signing long term with the club.

If the Giants are bargain shopping, you can have JJ Hardy as your everyday SS. He’s not very good offensively, and average defensively. So he’s right in Sabean’s wheelhouse.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 6, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it's too bad that Counsell has that bizarre contract

He’d have been an improvement on the assortment of AA shortstops the Giants were using when Vizquel was broken. Actually he may be an improvement on Vizquel….

by morineko on Jun 6, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmm
”... Jonathan Sanchez and Bengie Molina for LaPorta and Bill Hall. That’s probably not giving up enough on the Giants’ end to get it done …”


Early candidate for understatement of the month.

by Zeyes on Jun 6, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

even with bill hall's

extremely low value right now, would you give him up alone for sanchez and molina? Personally, i have zero interest in molina, i mean we already have rivera and it looks like kendall’s on a mission to guarantee his option.

and jonathan sanchez? i had to look him up, and found that he’s 25, had all of 75 innings above A ball and is a former 24th round draft pick. seriously, i don’t give up bill hall for that package… and then to toss in the 7th overall pick from the 2007 draft.

is this a joke?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sanchez is not a horrible lefty

I remember him striking out a lot of brewers this year, but they hit him pretty hard. Bill Hall for Sanchez is fair to me.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sanchez is actually quite good

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 6, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

but I think a deal involving LaPorta would have to involve Cain. I can’t think of a package not involving Cain that could even cause me to even think about trading LaPorta (Lincecum, of course, but then the Brewers would have to throw in more, probably.

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants fans the their board are saying they would/should not give up Cain

Cain is 23 years old and has pitched over 500 innings in the MAJORS with a WHIP of 1.25

Laporta is the same age and has 200 bats above A-Ball

I love LaPorta too, but Cain is a proven quality young major leaguer… I would love to get him… it seems like people are trying to force a trade here

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and extremely quick

and dirty

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

After reading the thread

LaPorta is talked about like a pretty good hitting prospect who is Pat Burrell clumsy and might not pan out. There are hundreds of guys who fit that description, so why bother?

Lincecum is untouchable and Cain is the next Randy Johnson. So instead the Brewers can get more guys who are pretty good to compete with all the guys like that the Brewers already have for a spot on the 25. Yeah, makes sense. And we have no chance whatsoever to catch the Flubbies. I ain’t buying that and there is also a wild card.

Interesting that Dave Bush was mentioned as a throw in. There was a different discussion elsewhere about what would be given up for Bill Hall and some guy was talking about throwing in McClung.

How about McClung, Bush, Hall and Gillespie for Cain or Lincecum?

by ol Pete on Jun 6, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In response to your last sentence

We are not going to give up our crap for any of their studs.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just so we don't look competely unreasonable

I’ll mention that Matt Cain was prominently featured in the discussion about LaPorta over at McC. I just didn’t want to start the discussion by throwing his name out there in case by some miracle Sanchez and Molina was enough.

I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jun 6, 2008 1:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

Despite the fact that he’s only in AA, expectations are pretty high for LaPorta. (I don’t think we’ve done community projections for him, but I’m thinking Corey Hart-type stats, with more home runs but without the speed.) I wouldn’t expect to be able to get him cheaply, certainly without giving up someone you don’t want to give up. (Like Cain.)

I’m assuming LaPorta will reach the majors in 2010, spending next season in AAA. With Price due for free agency in 2012, and assuming LaPorta keeps hitting, I guess I’d be naturally inclined (as Getting Yosted mentioned above) to trade Prince in 2011 or so, and slide LaPorta as first baseman.

Having said that, until our recent hot streak, we haven’t had much luck with starting pitching, and I’d say that Sheets is more likely to go than stay after this season. With Gallardo coming off an injury…someone like Cain (or Lincecum) would be pretty attractive.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 1:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Projections

After a year or two in the bigs, I’d expect him to put up about a .270 average, .340-.350 OBP, and about 40 homers in a full year. You don’t trade that for Jonathon Sanchez and Bengie Molina.

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hard to put projections on him right now

Yet to face AAA pitching

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You guys aren't being especially realistic

Matt Cain is worth about four Matt LaPortas.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 6, 2008 1:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Brewers also don't need to trade him

If they are going to move him, they should be getting more than he is worth. Especially with a club that has zero offensive production under the age of 90 and GMed by Brian Sabean. If you can’t steal from Sabes, you probably shouldn’t be in the GMing business.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 6, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s unrealistic versus unrealistic. Gobs of sarcasm. The Neife dude should come over here.

by ol Pete on Jun 6, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Both young… one proven in the majors… one yet to play AAA… To say someone will have 40 HRs right now is unrealistic… Assume Gallardo played this whole year and was one of the top young pitchers in the game, plus pitched half of next year (to get to 500 innings

Then someone says they have a guy almost hitting 300 in AA who projects to have great power a few years down the road... we are not trading Gallardo... and the Giants are not trading Cain

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

screwed up the last line

We are not trading Galladro and the Giants aren’t trading Cain…

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

but that leads to the question of why would the Brewers trade LaPorta and what would the Giants have to offer which ends in fuhgetaboutit.

by ol Pete on Jun 6, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't mean to pick on this guy

But here’s how some of them view LaPorta:

We talked about trading LaPorta for Brian Wilson the other day, and I’m dead set against that. I feel the same way about putting both Jonathan Sanchez and Henry Sosa into the same trade. I might give them Sosa, but Jonathan Sanchez is already showing what he can do at the major league level. There’s a reason the Giants are 9-3 when he starts, and nobody, and I mean nobody thinks that Sanchez has come anywhere close to reaching his potential. Minor leaguer for minor leaguer. Sosa for LaPorta.

I think he’s a little bit more valuable than that…

Lincecum isn’t realistic, but I think a deal involving Cain is feasible.

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because they have Lincecum

You are underrating Cain… he threw 200 innings last year and had a 3.65 ERA as a 22 year old… incredible, he has pitched since he was 20 in the majors! He is a young stud and can’t look at him as a weak #2 starter…

Just because the Giants underrated LaPorta, doesn’t mean you should underrate a proved major leaguer who is the same age

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"a deal involving Cain"

I would expect the Giants to want more. LaPorta for Cain straight up would be lopsided. We’d probably have to throw in another legit prospect plus maybe, as they mentioned, Hall or Bush or something…

Why are we doing this? The Brewers aren’t trading LaPorta anyway.

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I think no more comments should be made on this thread!

Brewers aren’t trading LaPorta, period.

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagreed

It’s fun to have a discussion that makes some sense

Reasons:
1. Prince and Laporta seem to be moving in opposite directions. It seems that if one stays, the other goes.
2. Laporta is currently blocked at many positions
3. It’s nice to have a prospect that could net some nice returns
4. Currently, the Brewers need some more pitching…who doesn’t?
5. With Bill Hall wanting a trade, package deals become more prevalent

Laporta probably is not getting traded anytime soon, but the amount of posts in a short amount of time proves that the topic is very interesting.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good thing we have them!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

faulkner u, alabama

digging very deep.

and another adams. pretty soon we’ll turn Helena into the Adams Family.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 6, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Blog dementia

when you’re posting comments in the wrong thread. It’s sad, really. Someone get Jeff his pudding.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LaPorta for Faulkner?

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

New pitcher!

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 6, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey bk

sonny gray goes to the cubs. sorry.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 6, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oops...thought i was in the draft thread.

i can’t navigate my own damn site!

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jun 6, 2008 2:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm the guy that posted it originally

I’ll start by saying I know MIL doesn’t have to trade LaPorta, and if they choose to they will likely want a proven Major League starter (i.e. a Bedard type, but there’s no guys like that currently availiable)

My logic for the deal was simply this: MIL has an embarrassing amount of offensive talent in AA. LaPorta might be the best bat down there, but he also plays two positions the Brewers have young studs at (Prince and Braun). I feel that having Braun play RF and hart CF to accomodate LaPorta would give the Brewers the worst OF defense in baseball, and I think MIL already has some great OF prospects that would provide great offense without giving up defense (Gillespie).

The only real way I see LaPorta in MIL’s future if is the Brewers decide that they can’t lock up Prince and look to trade him in a year or two. I suppose that has a decent chance of happening, but I also feel like MIL would want to do everything in their power to keep Prince, who is the face of the franchise and is one of the best young players in the game.

So, I looked at the Brewers current situation where the big club has two major holes. Catcher, where Kendall is one of the most damaging offensive players at the position, and pitching, where everyone outside of Sheets has either been bad or is just waiting to implode (Suppan and his barely over 1 to 1 K/BB ratio). Bengie Molina is clearly an offensive upgrade over Kendall, one that is probably big enough to be worth about 2 wins.

Starting pitching is obviously a big hole, but with parity being as it is, there aren’t many starters on the trade market, let alone starters that are young and wouldn’t merely be one year rentals.

Jonathan Sanchez is not in the class of a Cain or Lincecum, but he also happens to be one of the best strikeout pitcher in the game. He is 25, left handed, and is currently 5th in the league in K’s per 9 for starters. The pitchers around his level are guys like Unit, Scherzer, Lincecum, Kazmir, Sabathia, Beckett, Peavy, Sabathia, Vazquez, harden, and billingsley.

Sanchez has a career minor league K rate of 11.88 per 9. His control is still a major problem, but when he’s throwing strikes he’s dominant. He is still learning to pitch and will likely only get better every year. Currently, Sanchez has better numbers than every Brewers starter not named Sheets so he can help you guys this year as you make a playoff push. His FIP is currently 3.76, ranking him ahead of Sabathia, Wang, Eveland, Johan, and many more (including all Non Sheets Brewers starters).

LaPorta is a great hitting prospect and I think he will be Pat Burrell oneday (the good years, not the bad ones). Sanchez might not ever be an ace, but his potential is obviously very good and his numbers this year have been good. he also has no injury history whatsoever

When you factor in minor upgrades the Giants throw in like Sosa (BA ranks him as one of the Giants best piching prospects), Yabu (I’m sure you’ve got someone worse in your pen), and Molina (definite offensive upgrade over Kendall) and it’s not that bad a deal. The brewers are loaded with offensive prospects and Sanchez is a young lefty with tremendous stuff that the Brewers would control for 4 more years.

the Brewers do not have to trade LaPorta, but I do think the Brewers will need to make a move to get into the playoffs this year, and right now the only pitchers on the market better than Sanchez would be Blanton and Harden. Maybe you guys are conceding the playoffs this year, but I don’t see why you would considering the talent on this team. The Brewers should be a playoff team this year, perhaps even without making any moves, but it can’t be denied that Sanchez, Molina, and Yabu make the Brewers a better team for 2008.

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Um....What

You compared Sanchez to these guys

Unit, Scherzer, Lincecum, Kazmir, Sabathia, Beckett, Peavy, Sabathia, Vazquez, harden, and billingsley.

If he’s that good, we better give Gamel and Laporta ;)

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I compared his K rates

that is the list of guys both that have K rates in Sanche’z’s range. I believe he is ahead of 5 of those guys and behind the other 5. That’s the only comparison I was making

In terms of FIP, he beats a couple of those guys as well

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ah

I thought you were making an overall comparison.

Derrick Turnbow has a great strikeout rate. We can trade him for Sanchez.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

but Sanchez is doing it as a starter. BTW, Turnbrow’s K/9 before his demotion was a mere 7.11

Sanchez’s FIP is currently 3.76, better than Johan, CC, Dice K, Oswalt, King Felix, Verlander, Dempster, Marcum, Blanton, and plenty more.

Does that mean he’s better than any of those guys? Not necessarily, but it does show that statistically he has been superior to all of those pitchers, 1/3 through the 08 season.

The guy is 25 years, left handed, and putting up elite K numbers. He is superior to FOUR members of your rotation. I understand wanting more for LaPorta, you probably can get it, but I don’t see why you guys feel the need to trash Sanchez so much.

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to add

he is NOT better than those guys listed. I’m not trying to make that argument. Just that on paper, he’s been comparable and he is young, so there is plenty of upside.

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind that we remember Sanchez from his appearance this year with the brewers

He had an awesome 8 K’s in 4 innings. However, he also gave up 7 ER in those same 4 innings.

In conclusion, K rates don’t give the entire picture.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

in a game by game basis sure

but find me a starter that’s ever been really bad with a K/9 rate above 9.00

Anything can happen in a sample size of one game. AJ Burnett threw a no hitter walking 7 people, would you say walking people at a rate 7 per 9 is acceptable?

K rates give the big picture A LOT better than individual games.

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is not my point

You are arguing with Brewer fans who remember Sanchez from his crappy outing against the Brewers. That should help you understand why we are a little guarded in giving up our top prospect for him.

I think Sanchez is a good pitcher. I just don’t want to give up a guy that is mashing in the minors for him.

You can have bill hall for him.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's fine

I think you can get better quality for LaPorta, but I think a lot of the logic you use to attack sanchez is flawed.

The problem is you seem to be attacking Sanchez with flawed logic rather than touting LaPorta’s monster bat, which is the better argument.

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think my logic is flawed

Sanchez is having a good year as a starter, but 2 months doesn’t prove that you belong in the same breath as any of the other starters you are comparing him to.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

im not comparing him to them

just his K rates, that’s all. Those pitchers (outside of Billingsley) all have much better which seperates them greatly. He just has the kind of stuff that those pitchers have, but there is more to a pitcher than stuff and Sanchez needs to improve his command to take the next step

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was his worst outing of the season, though.

He had one more outing that bad, too, but other than that he’s been almost perfect. Every other outing has been a quality start, save one where he let up like 1 ER in 4 innings and the pitch count took him out. And you’re right, K rates dont show the whole picture there, but it does show his stuff is good enough to be pretty high up there among the better pitchers in the league. His only problem is controlling his stuff. But when he has control, he’s an awesome pitcher. He had one outing where he went 8 innings, letting up 1 and striking out 10, and another where he struck out 10 in 6 scoreless. And he’s beginning to show a lot of consistancy. He could very well be a #2 starter in a year or two, and a decent 3rd or 4th this year. He could definitely be useful to the Brewers.

by boonitez on Jun 6, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok.

but it can’t be denied that Sanchez, Molina, and Yabu make the Brewers a better team for 2008.

Ok, fine, sanchez is better than the last guy in the bullpen for the brewers, i’ll give you that. and molina is a small upgrade from kendall.

marcel ‘08 wOba
kendall .303
molina .321

but it cannot be denied that over 6 years that trade would be better for the giants in 5 of them.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Small upgrade?

Jason Kendall’s current OPS+ is 71
Molina’s is 123

I don’t even know how to respond to any claim such as that. Putting Chris Capuano at catcher would be a small upgrade over Kendall, Molina is playing levels and levels above Kendall. Even after Molina regresses he is a major upgrade over kendall

Sanchez is better than any pither in your rotation not named Ben Sheets

I don’t even know what logic could possibly be going through your mind when you make claims like that

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest

I believe Jacob makes a lot of sense. Molina is having a great year, but he’s getting up there in age and there must be a reason you seem to be very willing to get rid of him.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes there is a reason

The Giants are not a contender. Not this year, or next year. What’s the point of keeping Molina on a team that is going to lose around 90 games?

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With that logic

Can’t you say the same about Cain and Lincecum?

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they are young

and under the Giants control for the next 5 years. The Giants could be contending by then and these two are young enough to be extended beyond 4-5 years. Extending a mid 30’s guy like Molina obviously makes little sense

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

especially

when we just drafted Buster Posey

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you are using that logic

We just drafted Brett Lawrie in the first round. Sure he is only 18 and not polished as a catcher, but he’s been using a wood bat since he was 14 and will move up faster than other 18 year olds.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

Ok…

Moving fast for Lawrie would probably be 3-4 years at least, at which point neither Molina or kendall will likely still be starting catchers

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At first I liked this thread

However, we both look at our players in a different light and a conclusion does not seem possible.

Maybe the giants should go sign Sanchez for Zito like money.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

but it’d be nice if you could actually make a legitimate argument, rather than off the cuff jokes lacking actual evidence. Roguejim made good arguments against it, an argument I can agree with

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

Here was my argument:

1. We don’t need another old catcher even though he is hitting great
2. Strikeout rates don’t mean everything
3. If you are only going off of 2 months of stats, Cain would be the guy you should want to trade
4. We drafted a young catching prospect in the first round too. Posey is closer to the majors, but the point is valid.
5. We saw Sanchez get shelled against the Brewers

As for the off the cuff jokes lacking actual evidence, here is what I said:
1. Turnbow has a high K rate (look at his career numbers)
2. Zito is getting paid way, way too much
3. Trade Sanchez for Bill Hall, because he actually expressed a want to be traded.

Those jokes seem to have some evidence.

by brewfan2 on Jun 6, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your jokes

a) Turnbrow does, and he was an all star his first year in MIL as a result
b) what does Zito have to do with anything
3) Why would the Giants want Bill Hall?

The young catcher part has no place in this discussion. Bengie Molina would be a player to strictly improve you guys for 2008 and 09, years where Lawrie won’t even sniff the big leagues. They have no relation to each other whatsoever

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Angel Salome

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 6, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely

but the Giants don’t need to upgrade for 08 and 09. We will suck these years anyway, no point in trying to get marginally better.

We need solutions for 2010 and beyond

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

He won’t be old enough to be on the Giants for another decade.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 6, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He does have a point

Capuano has more HR as a Brewer than Kendall does.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jun 6, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think the mistake

you are making both with sanchez, and now clearly with molina, is looking at this year’s stats and deciding that this is their talent level. that’s not the way it is done.

so i guess you could say that looking at two months of baseball and not using only those numbers to make future predictions is the logic that could possibly be going through my mind when i make claims like that.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jun 6, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not a bad argument

I guess there are a few things I’d disagree with.

I feel that having Braun play RF and hart CF to accommodate LaPorta would give the Brewers the worst OF defense in baseball.

Although I don’t have any stats to back this up, I don’t think this is likely to be true. Braun’s been surprising adequate in left field, and has even made some spectacular plays, and Corey Hart is both speedy and with a good arm. Unless LaPorta literally has an iron glove, I have a hard time seeing a LaPorta outfield being bad. Maybe not good, either, but not bad.

I think MIL already has some great OF prospects that would provide great offense without giving up defense (Gillespie).

Really, the only prospects that folks around here would feel comfortable relying on are LaPorta and Gamel, both in AA. We have others, of course, like Jeffress and even Gillespie, but they’re more fingers-crossed kinds of prospects.

The only real way I see LaPorta in MIL’s future if is the Brewers decide that they can’t lock up Prince and look to trade him in a year or two. I suppose that has a decent chance of happening, but I also feel like MIL would want to do everything in their power to keep Prince, who is the face of the franchise and is one of the best young players in the game.

Yes and no. I guess it depends on how Prince does over the next few seasons, but, as has been discussed recent;y ‘round these parts, Ryan Braun is taking over the “face of the team” (especially considering that he decided to sign a long-term deal and Prince seems to have decided not to). Plus, the Brewers won’t be in a position to sign all of their “stars.” Although we’re still years away, right now, if you asked people here if Prince will re-sign, most would say no.

As for Kendall, he’s kind of interesting. He had a hot start with the bat, and the fact that he’s throwing runners out left and right seems to have disguised the fact that he’s not hitting.

(There’s no reason for you to have known any of this stuff, of course.)

For the Giants you mentioned, I guess I don’t know much about them. If I had to guess, though, I’d say that LaPorta is so highly regarded (and rightly so), that if he were to be traded, we’d want something of a sure thing in return.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

very true

I agree with pretty much everything you said, although I think Gillespie is more than a fingers crossed prospect. I think he has a pretty good chance of being a decent MLB OF’r.

If I was the Brewers, I’d be searching for a more sure thing than Sanchez. Sanchez has plenty of upside to justify trading LaPorta, and this move would definitely help the Brewers 08 chances, but I would wait on LaPorta until the Prince situations settles itself and perhaps wait for a high caliber of SP to become avaliable. While it would take more than LaPorta, the Brewers would probably be more interested in an Erik Bedard like trade, getting a sure thing that is is still under control for a few years

Go Durham, Roberts, Aurilia, Vizquel, Winn, Lowry! The better you do, the quicker we can trade you!

by NeifiChicken on Jun 6, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree with the Bedard comment

A sure thing… I don’t know if that trade could happen, but if it could, sign me up!

That being said, the more I think about it, the more a trade like this makes sense…

The Brewers weakness is quality pitching with Sheets gone… we have an abundance of poor defenders/great young hitters. I don’t know if Sanchez is the answer, but somebody like him who has proven himself maybe just a tad more would make sense.

I think we are all married to the idea of LaPorta being a great Brewer for years to come, but what the team might truly need is a dependable pitcher going out there every 5 days.

This is what I do on my fantasy team (had the best fantasy team in terms of pitchers) so I traded Carmona for Beltran… worked out for both teams as I got a decent Utility OF…

Don’t like to use fantasy as evidence that a trade like this would work, but it might…

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

The trade worked out quite good well for me… with Carmona hurt

The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

by Kyguy922 on Jun 6, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's right

I have no idea if Brewer mgmt. is even open to the possibility of trading LaPorta, but even if they are, I imagine that they’d wait to see what happens with Prince first. The difference between him re-signing and not re-signing is huge. (Go ahead, make your Prince Fielder weight joke.) This is in terms of both offensive prowess and salary - I have a feeling we’ll be deciding between keeping Fielder and keeping Corey Hart. Plus, there’s been really no indication at all that Prince would want to stay here a minute longer than he has to, and plenty of suggestion that he won’t.

In favor of a Sanchez/LaPorta trade, though, is the fact that Gamel (the other AA prospect) hasn’t yet been able to play third base. Like Corey Hart and Ryan Braun, there’s a good chance that we’ll need to find room for another 3rd baseman on the team, yet not at third.

It could also be that we as an organization still feel the sting of Turnbow. As an organization, we’d naturally shy away from trading LaPorta for a pitcher with high strikeout and walk rates. That being said, it could very easily turn out that Sanchez could be very good, very soon.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jun 6, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His control is still a major problem, but when he’s throwing strikes he’s dominant

i too suggest the turnbow for sanchez trade. based solely on that logic.

by tre7274 on Jun 8, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's official

They are insane. Between the guy who claims Parra will be nothing more than an average reliever to the guy who says he wouldn’t want Fielder for free, Sabean has driven those poor guys around the bend.

Thank Pujols the intertubes weren’t around when Bando was running things.

by Getting Yosted on Jun 6, 2008 7:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I saw that one too

He asked whether the poster had seen Sanchez pitch and I wondered if he had ever seen Parra pitch. Screw ‘em, hope they enjoy watching pitchers like Lincecum and Cain waste years on a team with no hope of competing.

After Billy’s agent talked about being traded the intertubes are filled with daft ideas for trades which do zero to help the Brewers.

by ol Pete on Jun 6, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But hey

you have to give them credit for a great proposal when they make one: one of them said that they would do Noah Lowry for Prince Fielder. Sabean should give Doug Melvin a call and suggest that one!

Whenever prince is at first, he should charge the mound and yell "MEAT!"

by Jordan M on Jun 7, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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