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Latest Sabathia rumor

Apparently the offer stands at LaPorta, Green, and Cain (or a similar player--maybe Darren Ford?)

Link 5 months ago Cowswithguns_tiny battlekow Comment 99 comments 0 recs |

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I like it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was enough to get the deal done, too. Every year, the big-name acquisition target has crazy trade packages floated (remember who the Angels were supposedly ready to give up to get Carlos Lee? then Miguel Tejada?) ...and then goes for something more modest.

Basically, it’s LaPorta and throw-ins (I know, Green is more than that, but not much more than that) for a Sabathia rental + draft picks. I think CC might be the acquirable player most likely to get us the two or three wins between making the playoffs and not, plus he’s the acquirable player most likely to make us more competitive in the postseason.

I think the Indians will shop this around, and a deal much like this will get done.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 5, 2008 11:45 AM CDT   0 recs

good caveats

might be the acquirable player most likely to get us the two or three wins

let’s say sabathia replaces bush and bush replaces mota, let’s generously say for 1/2 season. I think you’ve got 1 win in the upgrade from bush to sabathia, and maybe .25 wins in the upgrade from mota to bush. 2 or 3 wins could happen, and those upgrades, looking at who is available, might be the most likely to allow that to happen.

starting pitching is so tricky.

I think the Indians will shop this around, and a deal much like this will get done.

If the offer is actually LaPorta, which is an overpay, i assume Melvin is savvy enough to say something like you have one day to decide in order to get it done now and to limit the shopping the indians get to do.

So, what are the odds he is pitching Monday against Colorado instead of Dave Bush?

I like it. But the workload scares me. He’s thrown less than 100 pitches all of three times this year, and threw 240+ innings last year. I’d expect to get a B level prospect back if laporta or gamel are in for Sabathia as insurance against catastrophe.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 1:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know if a B-level prospect would count for much...

But it would be nice to get a fringey reliever. Moving Bush to the pen would give us more depth there, but with D-Bow’s struggles, we have a startling lack of options to fill out the mlb pen. Jensen Lewis might be a lot to ask for, but somebody like that (who would have the added psychological benefit of lasting longer than 3 months) would be a really nice addition to the org.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 5, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right

lewis is exactly the type of guy i’m talking about. you don’t think he’d would count for much, but would be a nice addition? so organizational filler?

the brewers need to get to a place where the bullpen is made up of B level starting prospects, the bullpen needs to get cheap fast. looking at the Buffalo Bisons roster, i’d really like to see even a guy like david huff or aaron laffey come back in the deal as well.

laporta (or gamel who’d i’d prefer to lose) is just so much of an overpay that the brewers need to get something back, and someone who can be added to the bullpen next year for league minimum is the right kind of piece to add.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 1:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I should've been clearer

I think Lewis is more than a B-level prospect. Not more talented—he’s no more than a B in that regard, but he’s semi-proven at the big-league level. He’s much more than organizational filler at this point. He’s the kind of guy you want to have around that so you don’t have to shell out $3-4MM for next year’s version of Mota.

My worry is that the Indians know full well how valuable that kind of player is, esp. with a payroll/division position very similar to ours. I don’t think Melvin and Shapiro will have a conversation where Melvin says, “we can make this happen if you add somebody like Jensen Lewis,” and Shapiro says, “no problem.”

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 5, 2008 1:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Speaking as an Indians fan, I can tell you that Shapiro knows the full value of that type of player very well.

This trade is not only a rare opportunity for each organization, but a transaction with another organization that I actually have a lot of respect for. The Brewers are absolutely our equivalent in the NL.

I can’t wait to see what happens when two smart GM’s try to put put together a blockbuster.

by KevinV on Jul 5, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

really?

put your shapiro hat on…

laporta, green, cain for sabathia, lewis?

you say no? i call crazy.

if the indians get laporta+ for “only” sabathia that is a HUGE win for cleveland. As a reliever how much do you think lewis is worth? maybe one win over replacement? lewis definitely has value, but clearly it is somewhere less than a half season of sabathia, which is worth less than 6 seasons of laporta.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 4:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except, of course, for the fact that Lewis and Sabathia are already major leaguers, and that Lewis only has about a year of service time. If LaPorta were such a sure-shot major leaguer, I doubt he’d be traded.

LaPorta’s a great talent, and I’d be happy to land him, but I think this idea that the trade is inequitable is a stretch.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 3:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Slightly related

I realize this this is slightly off the topic of what you two are talking about, but if LaPorta is an overpay (which I promise I’ll stop obsessing over, once I can quit breathing into this small brown paper bag), why are the deals being discussed LaPorta + 1 or 2 others for 2 months of Sabathia? Would LaPorta alone not be enough to get a deal done, do you think?

Also, how often do these rent-a-player deals, well, work? Regardless of the specifics involved, trading anything of value for a 300-pound man makes me a little skittish.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 1:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I have a feeling there’s lots of space in my side of the bandwagon. Which is fine, more room for Cheesy Poofs.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Count me in on that bandwagon.

Hey, where ya goin RJ?

LaPorta would be and underpay if this weren’t a rental. Since it is, he’s an overpay in that you’re giving up a position player with a plus bat whom you can control for several years for a guy you’re essentially going to get a dozen starts from. That’s an overpay for a franchise that will have to roll over its roster with organizational prospects every 3 years if it has any hope of staying competitive.

Let’s face it: if this weren’t a franchise desperate to break a 26 year baseball drought, the idea of giving up LaPorta for 2 months of Sabathia would sound crazy to many more of us than. The fact that it’s LaPorta plus 1-2 others is, I’m assuming, related to the 2 early picks that Cleveland would get in compensation. From the market’s perspective, it’s probably not an overpay since you have to offer more than two prospects to even get Cleveland to think about making the move. From the Brewers perspective, which should be (in my opinion) will LaPorta or Sabathia help this organization more over the next 3-5 years, I think it’s clearly an overpay.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 5, 2008 4:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dammit...

That should read “an underpay”....

and

...” to many more of than are currently willing to admit it.”

Congratulations RJ. The only guy who agrees with you is the incoherent moron. That should be enough to persuade you that giving up LaPorta plus two other prospects for Sabathia is a good idea.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 5, 2008 4:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nonsense

the more the merrier.

I find as I get older, than I get more annoyed at the person who put three vowels on a qwerty keyboard next to each other. When I type, U’s, I’s, and O’s tend to become interchangeable.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 4:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ah!

Yes, if we had a season and a half of Sabathia, I’d be on board (mostly).

Also, trading LaPorta now is one less trading chip we have when we go after Grienke or whomever. You think our pitching is sketchy now, wait until we have neither Sheets nor Sabathia.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 4:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure what others are offering

But , I assume, it’s more than LaPorta by himself? That would make me feel a little better, actually.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, it’s not only an issue of matching the talent, but also of getting the deal done quickly. We Tribe fans have the luxury of sitting on our hands and taking bids. So Melvin doesn’t need to beat the Dodgers’ offer, he needs to make the deal sweet enough that the Indians pull the trigger now as opposed to waiting it out.

I’d also ask you to note that this “we’re not really worried about Sabathia” talk from the Rays and the BoSox may be just that—talk. It’s at least a possibility that the competition is stiffer than you think.

by fleerdon on Jul 5, 2008 3:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"we"

We Tribe fans have the luxury of sitting on our hands and taking bids.

You mean the indians have the luxury of sitting on their hands, right, not the fans?

:)

So Melvin doesn’t need to beat the Dodgers’ offer, he needs to make the deal sweet enough that the Indians pull the trigger now as opposed to waiting it out.

This is the part I find fascinating. I think LaPorta and Green is exactly that, a deal sweet enough that if it has an expiration date, entices the indians to move now, and not start a bidding war. Melvin is savvy enough to see that the maybe 1 or 2 wins Sabathia might add is not incredibly necessary. The brewers’ shot at the playoffs is still just Ok, not great, and LaPorta is a steep price.

I’d be more upset to see laporta given away at the deadline than either nothing happening or LaPorta being moved tomorrow…

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 4:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As for your first point, I meant both—just conflating the two for convenience and to identify myself as a visitor.

Is the deal sweet enough? I’m telling you, Shapiro has surprised us for a long time. The Sabathia and LaPorta parts might be right, but the rest of it sounds like clueless sportswriters to me. The Indians are known to have once of the more scarily accurate player databases going. As a general rule, if we think we know how the organization values somebody … we don’t.

by fleerdon on Jul 5, 2008 11:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

others

why are the deals being discussed LaPorta + 1 or 2 others for 2 months of Sabathia? Would LaPorta alone not be enough to get a deal done, do you think?

imagine the others as being compensation for the draft picks that would be lost by trading sabathia. green and cain probably have about the same risk associated with them as a 2009 first round pick. so what’s left is laporta (who is at this point worth more than any draft pick) and sabathia. the idea is this.

laporta = sabathia
green = 2009 1st round pick
cain = 2009 supplemental pick

me, i’m cool with the second two, but i agree with you that laporta is worth more than sabathia at this point. unlike you however, i’d be willing to do that trade, to overpay if it meant sabathia was pitching in milwaukee on monday. but i think it’s a win for the indians.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 4:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LaPorta is not worth more than Sabathia to the Brewers

LaPorta is in probably the worst organization for his talents.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 5:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's probably true

For the rest of 2008, only, though.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 6:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why?

Presumably the Brewers know better whether Corey Hart can play center than we do.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 7:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That could be

Maybe THAT’S what making the playoffs is worth - taking a hit on a trade like this. Let me think about that.

...

Nope, still don’t like it. :D

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 5:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I say boo

Boo!

LaPorta is a marvelous talent who was batting .291 with 20 home runs and 66 RBI through 82 games at Class AA Huntsville. He previously was considered an untouchable, but the Brewers realized they would have to part with one of the top two offensive players in their system, LaPorta or third baseman Mat Gamel, to get Sabathia.

Someone, either with the Brewers or the Journal Sentinel, does not know what “untouchable” means.

I would have thought that someone like LaPorta--on the cusp of playing for the majors but with no service time yet, under team control for years for cheap—would be the single most valuable property in all of baseball. Turns out, he alone isn’t worth two months of a guy who does not fall in the AL’s top 20 for ERA leaders among starting pitchers. (This isn’t to disparage Sabathia, he’s a good pitcher. If we’re trading LaPorta for two months of a pitcher, I’m expecting Jake Peavy, not CC Sabathia.)

To me, two months of Sabathia is better than Bob Wickman, Steve Woodard, and Jason Bere, but not really by much. I have to believe there are ways to improve our pitching that don’t involve LaPorta and Gamel, or that go beyond 2008.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 12:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Peavy vs. Sabathia

This is interesting:

2008 Peavy xFIP: 3.52
2008 Sabathia xFIP: 3.24

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jul 5, 2008 2:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

translating...please hold...

adjusting for home park, CC’s ERA is lower than Peavy’s? (Am I reading this statistic right?)

(Note to Herr Sackmann: any chance you could be convinced to put a link like this on the FP somewhere? If not, it seems just as comfortable in my bookmarks…)

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Home park and defenses behind them

It’s saying once you neutralize those, Sabathia has pitched better than Peavy this year.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jul 5, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Service time cheapness

Yeah, LaPorta would be cheap for years, but the Brewers are already set for years at the corner outfield spots with Hart and Braun. Even if Hart ends up moving into center field, the Brewers still have a number of outfield prospects (and perhaps Mat Gamel) with no service time to fill in that corner outfield spot. With a number of cheap options (though without the shiny first-round pick status) at the same position, LaPorta’s value to the Brewers as a cheap corner outfielder in the future is likely considered by the front office as less than guys who might be able to play third base, shortstop, or catcher. That’s likely why they’re willing to send LaPorta out in a deal for pitching this year rather than keeping him for the sake of fielding a lineup of cheap players in future years.

Now, they could try and get a pitcher who will be around after 2008, but how many guys like that are actually on the market? How often do currently good pitchers (like a Greinke) with more than just the one season of team control actually get traded in the middle of the season? To wit, Melvin has already mentioned guys like Matt Cain and Zack Greinke are more likely available in the offseason. If that type of pitcher is not available now and the front office feels the team needs a starting pitcher this year to get them over the hump into the playoffs, why not go for the best guy out there by dangling a cheap player that can be more easily replaced with your other cheap players? I guess they could go only for a lesser option like Greg Maddux (six innings of wiliness per start) or Randy Wolf (really?), but they don’t seem like guys who would make as much of a difference.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jul 5, 2008 2:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, I suppose

[grumble, grumble]

Plus, one assumes that with the 5 first round picks we’d get next season, we’d be able to get the equivalent of LaPorta next season, if we chose.

Still, I guess the last time we did prospects for a pitcher, it didn’t turn out so well (though BK disagrees, IIRC). Besides, I thought we’re supposed to use our young guys to replace our veterans, and not vice-versa.

I guess I see LaPorta hitting 35 HRs in as soon as 2-3 years, whereas I see Sabathia pitching for someone else in 2-3 months. The vague hope of improving out starting pitching —which, though important, is arguably not our most pressing need -- I dunno.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 4:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do yourself a favor and check out C.C.’s stats since those abysmal first 4 starts. He’s been more or less the same guy who won the Cy Young in May and June.

by fleerdon on Jul 5, 2008 3:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

except

He’s been more or less the same guy who won the Cy Young in May and June.

except for his walk rate, and the fact that he has 240+ innings on his arm and is one year older… no pitcher is ever “the same guy” they were in a different season.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 5, 2008 4:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

C.C.’s walk rate is still ridiculously good—85:15 K:BB through May and June. And as for his durability, yeah, he weighs 300 pounds, but he’s also 6-foot-7. His velocity’s been great as well. I can’t recall his ever having gone on the DL more than a few times, and never for elbow-shoulder-back-hip, pitching-mechanics type problems.

I completely understand being protective of prospects, but you’re not going to find a flaw in Sabathia that will turn him into anything other that the most potentially season-changing pickup the Brewers could make. And if the Brewers don’t make this deal, next year, when Braun gets hurt, or Hardy suddenly sucks, or whatever else goes wrong, you’ll wonder if your guys couldn’t have done something more in 2008, something to get you there. Ask any Indians fan about THAT.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 12:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Welllllll

It’s not like Sabathia is a guarantee of, well, anything. On paper, his switching leagues is a good thing: weaker teams in the NL, players who haven’t seen him before, etc.

However, this isn’t fantasy baseball here. There are lots of guys who don’t respond well to being traded, who don’t perform at the same level in a new environment. Do I have fleerdon’s personal guarantee that we’re going to get Cy Young outings for the second half of 2008 if we make the trade? Because with the names being tossed around, that’s what we’d be paying for. No slight on CC Sabathia (or you, fleerdon), but over a small sample of 15 starts or so, plus the variables of a new league, new teammates, etc., I just don’t see him as the lock that you do.

And don’t sell short the weight thing. We already lost one pitcher this season to an in-game, non-pitching injury; I’m not looking forward to seeing him rumble down the first base line trying to leg out singles. (Although he’s actually a pretty accomplished hitter, now that I look at his hitting stats!)

But it’s just me. I hadn’t thought about it until now, but it turns out I do NOT like trading for 2-month rentals, not when prospects of LaPorta’s quality are involved. Lesser quality prospects, sure, or LaPorta quality if we had Sabathia for more than the rest of 2008. But as it’s looking now, the risk that this will blow up in our faces is pretty huge.

As for the Braun gets hurt/Hardy suddenly sucks scenario, well, one could argue that if you have top-level prospects knocking at the door of the majors, you have some pretty good insurance in the event of injury or overall suckitude - that is, if you don’t trade them first. Although I see your point, in my mind, 2009 and beyond is more a reason to not make the trade than to make it.

On the other side…look, it’s Tom Servo! Hi Keeba!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 6, 2008 8:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do I have fleerdon’s personal guarantee that we’re going to get Cy Young outings for the second half of 2008 if we make the trade?

Oh, absolutely. Book it.

No, seriously though, that’s probably how I would feel in your place. But, if’n you hadn’t noticed, our feelings don’t seem to influence much. All I’m saying: C.C. definitely is the best pitcher and almost certainly the single most influential acquisition you could make at the deadline—head, shoulders, and torso above your next best option. He isn’t any more an injury risk than any other player, and at this point his medical history is much more positive than negative. (I’ve been within 15 feet of him, and I’m here to tell you, your impression of him up close isn’t “fat,” it’s just “huge.”) And of course he could suck, or the whole season could tank and it would have been a waste. Those are always the risks. But your front office would have made an aggressive, perfectly defensible move.

And, look, I don’t WANT to trade him. I want to sign him. But he turned down 4-5 years for $76MM, and that’s the most the Tribe could afford. Given that, I’d like to get something for him, and a 23-year-old in AA with some other guys seems like a pretty reasonable price to me.

Side note: You didn’t know C.C. can hit?

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 8:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I worry about his post-season record. What explanation is given for that?

by ol Pete on Jul 5, 2008 7:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's extent is only four games?

And three of them were last year, when he was clearly out of gas?

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 8:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

*its

Personal bugaboo.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 8:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with Jeff and battlekow. I’ll add to those comments that Sabathia was lights-out dominant in some ridiculously high-leverage games late in the season, and that (blatant bias disclaimer) both he and especially Carmona were squeezed by the umps against Boston.

by fleerdon on Jul 5, 2008 11:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Out of gas

He’s being ridden hard now in Cleveland, so that sounds like it could happen again.

And playing against a good offense? That’s a non-starter.

by ol Pete on Jul 6, 2008 12:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you’re accepting that he ran out of gas, then you should be absolutely thrilled, because it didn’t happen until after about 230 innings.

As far as his being ridden (rid? rided?) hard, he’s thrown more than 120 pitches only once, in his most recent start. He’s averaging just 107 pitches a start, many of them low-stress innings. It’s not his fault that 107 pitches usually gets him through 7 or 8 innings.

C.C. Sabathia is not a durability risk. If you don’t want to make the trade, there are reasons to support that position. His health and playoff performance aren’t among them.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

the quality of the offense has very little to do with how a pitcher might perform.

man, you can be dense sometimes.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 9:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

Yeah, erect a strawman and be a mighty warrior and strike it down.

Did you think Sabathia would have to pitch against the Nationals in the playoffs?

by ol Pete on Jul 6, 2008 10:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

calling your arguments

strawmen is far too kind.

did you think sabathia would have to face the red sox in the nl playoffs?

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 10:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you did make a strawman argument

and threw in a childish insult, which kind of reminds me of the blog troll, Beavis.

And as usual you don’t respond.

by ol Pete on Jul 7, 2008 8:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, let's look at reality

Let’s say the Brewers are the Wild Card, in which case their likely opponent is the East champion, for now the Phillies. They’re currently scoring 5.03 R/G. In 2007, the Red Sox scored 5.35 R/G—better than any current team in the NL.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 7, 2008 9:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

all good stuff

but really all I did was ask the question about his post-season record. The out of gas comment resonates, as I later saw a post about the innings that year and compared it to earlier years. Having not seen him other than a few regular season starts and his post-season pitching, I tried to engage the Indians guy in conversation. They sound like they love him and it would have been interesting to get their perspective.

The idea that mediocre to bad performance should go along with having to pitch against good hitters is a non-starter no matter how many insults or whiny schoolgirl attacks there are.

by ol Pete on Jul 7, 2008 12:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess Salome has little value?

It would seem like between Salome, Lucroy and Lawrie (knock on wood), we are a little heavy in the nice bat, no glove catching department. I wonder why these guys have not been mentioned.

That being said, I’d rather lose Green and Cain, and I doubt they would substitute Salome for Laporta.

by keephopealive on Jul 5, 2008 1:53 PM CDT   0 recs

Heh

It’s like we have our own brood of mini Estradas.

Maybe they’re too far down the system to attract any attention? Or maybe because we, as an organization, have had such little offense out of our catcher spot in recent memory that Jason Kendall looks good to us, and we keep Dave Nilsson’s number on speed dial just in case. With that sort of history, we might have trouble getting appropriate value for our catching prospects. Kind of like trying to trade Tony Gwynn Jr. when you yourself are desperate for a centerfielder.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 1:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They're definitely not too far down to attract attention

Salome, I’m guessing, is getting blackballed a bit because of the stimulant suspension. He hasn’t gotten any pub from Baseball America this year, which is a little puzzling until you remember his suspension. Lucroy might be more untouchable than guys like LaPorta and Gamel simply because of his position.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, right!

I did forget about that.

I had no idea Lucroy was that well-regarded, though. Wow, like, a legitimate catching prospect! Get out of town!

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 5, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He was the second-best hitting catcher in the draft last year, behind Matt Wieters, who is an absolute monster

As long as he doesn’t embarrass himself behind the dish (see: Salome), he’s a great prospect. It’s also nice to see that the FSL hasn’t slowed him down at all since his promotion.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thats up for debate

i would say that josh donadlson was equally regarded as far as a hitting catcher goes

by ACB on Jul 5, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

could be

donaldson tore it up last year but has struggled so far this season

by ACB on Jul 5, 2008 3:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's putting it milding

Donaldson 2008 (Class A): .223/.282/.358
Lucroy 2008 (Class A/A+): .326/.389/.506

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 3:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

heh

yeah i would prefer to have lucroy as well- just pointing out that donaldson was really good last season-

by ACB on Jul 5, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lucroy's glove is okay

He’s good enough to get to the Majors as a catcher, which is more than can be said of Salome at this point.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 5, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

from a cub fans view

the brews would be awfully tough in a short playoff series with Sheets and Sabathia back to back.

you guys have the farm to pull this off without depleting it so i would make the move, and if both sheets and sabathia leave you are going to have a ton of draft picks to help re stock the system

by ACB on Jul 5, 2008 2:52 PM CDT   0 recs

If Buster O. is to be believed

Sabathia has made his last start for the Indians. That’s what he was spouting last nite on BBTN.

I