Sabathia a Brewer!
In return, the Brewers sent the Indians Matt LaPorta and, according to the Wisconsin State Journal (thanks Zeyes), Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson, and a player-to-be-named-later.
[UPDATE]: Haudricourt confirms Jackson and Bryson and suggests that Taylor Green is the PTBNL.
[UPDATE 2]: Green's agent suggets Green might not be the PTBNL (thanks jihad).
over 3 years ago
battlekow
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Who are the other two?
Cleveland squeeze Brantley and Green out of Doug?
I’m guessing the Brewers announce it immediately after the game today.
That's what I figure too
The Huntsville game starts at 5 CT. I wonder if the lineup will come out before the Brewers game ends; if LaPorta isn’t in it, then it’s pretty much a sure thing.
He's extremely quick and good.
Can't complain
I love exciting young talent as much as the next playoff-hungry Brewers fan, but if it is LaPorta/Green/Brantley, that doesn’t strike me as all that bad. Best of luck in Cleveland, Matt, but load up the rotation and try and scare the pants off these Cubs.
by Bay View Brewer on Jul 6, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
now I want this game to end ASAP so we can find out what the deal is
Looks like a CC start on Tuesday!
Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay
so who gets bumped from the starting five?
i’d say the way Bush has been pitching, he joins Benny and Manny. McClung’s skill would translate well to the BP, but boy has Suppan sucked. How about some tendiinitis?
I hope they don't think about sunk costs
McClung’s the proven multitool of pitchers: he can start, close, do your short relief, do your long relief, and he can get you some sacrifice hits or outfield singles if you really need a bat.
Suppan…what is he good for, other than needing McClung or Villanueva to relieve him when he can’t make it the heck out of the fourth inning?
Tuesday might not be his first start
I believe a player has 72 hours to report after a trade, so if CC wants to drag his feet or get family stuff wrapped up in Cleveland he might not be seen until Thursday. Assuming they have completed the trade.
I bet if the trade’s finalized and the Brewers want him to start Tuesday, CC will pitch Tuesday. He likes to pitch and I’m sure will want to get off to a good start in Milwaukee.
by APV on Jul 6, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Subtext
Brian Anderson just said something like, “Should be an exciting time for Brewers fans over the next 48 hours on the trade front.” They’re just dying to spill the beans. They must know something.
The team always does stuff immediately after games. Remember when Gabe Gross had a walk-off hit and then before he’s out of his uniform they announce he had been traded? They might even announce it on Brewers Live.
by Bay View Brewer on Jul 6, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
If it’s true, you guys are going to enjoy watching CC pitch the next few months. His combination of size and athleticism is something you don’t see too often, especially on a pitching mound. He does tend to over-pitch a bit in big-games, but he has really matured into an elite pitcher over the past several seasons. A quick survey of his numbers over at fangraphs will show you what a different pitcher he has become (keeping in mind that his 2008 numbers are pulled down by several inexplicably terrible starts to begin the season).
by APV on Jul 6, 2008 3:59 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Adam, you forgot to mention the dingers. Like, the ones he hits.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
true…he’s got some plate discipline issues, but his career hitting line is .300/.317/.475
/semi-sarc
by APV on Jul 6, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Old update?
mlbtraderumors.com links to some SI.com thing saying the Indians are still trying to get Escobar. Was that over in the game thread? Is that an old update from earlier?
Anyway, LaPorta and Escobar would be too much. Need to have Alcides for when J.J. signs with the D-backs.
You’ll have an easier time following the trade season if you ignore that site entirely.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can think of me as The Jay. That other guy is just the TheJay.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If the Brewers get CC
He should be allowed to play in a Milwaukee Indians uniform.
Coffee is for closers
Does anyone think that the Crew have a chance
Of signing CC to a long term deal at the end of the season?
They definitely have a chance
Maybe not a good chance, but Attanasio has proven he’s willing to open his wallet, and Sabathia apparently enjoys Cleveland, which means he’ll also most likely enjoy Milwaukee, likes hitting, and doesn’t appear to be interested in wringing every last dollar out of the market. It almost seems like they’d have a better chance of signing him than Sheets.
He's extremely quick and good.
Not to be a party pooper here ...
... but I think it’s really unlikely the Brewers come close to offering what somebody with a load of cash to throw around will give Sabathia. You have to figure last year’s Zambrano deal is kind of the template for what both Sheets and Sabathia are looking for. That was 5 years/$91 million. Attanasio is willing to spend, but those kinds of dollars are pretty much out of the reach of teams like the Brewers.
I look at this trade as three of our prospects for three months of a great pitcher and two first-round draft picks. It’d be nice to keep Sabathia, but I’d be stunned if he signs here.
by Bay View Brewer on Jul 6, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the crew could go to that
The will be no money wasted on Gange or Mota next year.
And Sheets is already getting $12million this year
And would you prefer CC or Sheets for next year and beyond
Assuming that there contracts would be roughly the same I’m guessing something like 5 years $90 million, since there is no way we can afford both.
Respectfully, I don’t see it.
The Indians will approach him in the offseason. There’s no real reason to think the Brewers outbid the Indians, and there’s no real reason to think Sabathia would prefer Milwaukee to Cleveland if the money were equal.
That’s not to say there’s anything better about Cleveland in general, only that Sabathia has spent his entire adult life in the Indians organization. I mean that literally — he was drafted six weeks before his 18th birthday and signed nine days after it.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to imply it was likely
Just that it’s not out of the question.
He's extremely quick and good.
He turned down 4-5 and $76MM from the Indians, and the dispute was over years, not dollars. He probably wants 6, at least.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright game over
Odds that Davey Nelson stumbles through a report that the Brewers have traded for C.C Sabathia….pretty good
All over but the shouting, if you ask me
Haudricourt has a blog post about the deal now. Supposedly Cleveland will have a press conference tomorrow. It would suck to have to wait another day for this, but whatever. There’s too much talk getting out about how it appears to be done. I’d say it’s done.
A couple of club sources have told me the Brewers and Indians are still in heavy negotiations to try to conclude a deal for Cleveland left-hander C.C. Sabathia.
Whether a deal gets done or not, it’s a good sign for the Brewers that talks are still going on. That means they are still trying and the Indians are still listening.
The Indians are off tomorrow and a reporter in Cleveland told me he has been giving indications that a press conference will be taking place. That makes sense because it’s much easier to announce big deals on off days.
I'm not too concerned
Apparently DM and MS are not into this whole blogosphere thing, doing it the old way and letting word come out at press conferences, my goodness. Annoying.
So, in case you haven’t noticed … you’ve got some visitors from LetsGoTribe here (including me).
Are you guys excited about this? Because we’re excited. Sad, but excited. Our whole season sucks anyway.
We were torn last year in trying to figure out if the Indians should open the prospect vault in order to “go for it.” But the fact is, your system is much deeper in impact prospects than ours was a year ago — it’s still a dilemma, but it seems like much less of one.
Is that how you guys see it?
Yeah, pretty much
I don’t follow the minor league Brewers as much as many others around here, but it’s impossible to miss LaPorta’s amazing awesome-ness. But he’s a LF or 1B. Well, he’s living in Blocked City playing those positions in the Brewers organization right now. Plus, after the tease of last year, to be in a spot where there’s a good chance to go for the playoffs, well, they have to do everything they can.
The Brewers still have a tremendous amount of prospects in the system, and now they plug Sabathia into the rotation. Two No. 1 starters on the same team? Absolute rarity these days. Just stunned they’re in a position to go for it like this. So much fun to watch.
by Bay View Brewer on Jul 6, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
can't speak for everyone...
but I know I am. The Brewers would have two aces in their rotation and immediately become the favorites for the NL Wild Card, and should be in a position to give the Cubs a run as well.
I’m not happy about giving up Laporta, but assuming that Escobar is not included in the deal, our minor league system is still pretty well stocked. If the rumors are true and its Laporta and the two guys from single A, I would be elated.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
The Way I See It
Prospects are great to have, it makes baseball a lot more enjoyable, and gives every true baseball fan a few extra teams to root for. I think C.C., especially coming off the Cy Young last year, would really energize Milwaukee because, quite honestly, we’re sellers 99.9% of the time in the past. The last time we “bought” at the trade deadline was Don Sutton.
It’s going to be fun to watch, and I’m really excited to see what this team in Huntsville will do. LaPorta and Gamel are going to rake once they get to the majors.
Post Game Show
Craig and Davey just reported LaPorta is not playing today, but they haven’t heard anything official about any trades.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
Escobar, Gamel and Salome are playing today, for everyone following this particular tea leaf.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
huntsville lineup today
Parejo CF
Escobar RF
Gamel 3B
Salome DH
Gillespie LF
Hopf 1B
Bell 2B
Garciaparra SS
Maldonado C
Wright P
Bring Back The Old Logo!
that's what milb has.
ryan crew is the only other OF listed on the roster.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&cid=559&stn=true&sid=t559
and it looks like he is just back from the DL…
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Has Escobar played in the outfield before?
Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I’ve never heard of him in the OF, especially not with his defensive prowess at shortstop.
actually, they just switched it.
now escobar at ss, and garciaparra in rf
makes more sense not to move your top SS in an “emergency” fill in like that.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
so...
Chris Errecart, and Michael Brantley are the other “regulars” not playing today.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
They are both hurt
correct?
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Jul 6, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
oh. maybe...
couldn’t find anything, but brantley last played 6/26 and errercart ph, 7/4.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Jul 6, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
brevard county
cain, and green both played today for brevard county. (of other names mentioned).
Bring Back The Old Logo!
He who shall not be named
says the Brewers and Indians were still in “heavy negotiations” as of an hour twenty minutes ago.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Lorenzo Cain not going to be in the deal
according to the nameless one. Going to take Laporta’s spot instead.
Glad to read
Escobar doesn’t seem to be included.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Jul 6, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Escobar seemed an unlikely trade piece all along. The Brewers obviously value him, and the Indians are really big on walk rates. Players that get included in trades generally are valued a little more by the receiving team than the sending team, not the other way around.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Moustache needs to be careful
that the Indians don’t try to white out “C.C. Sabathia” and write over “Jeff Weaver” in the written agreement. Those sly dogs!
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
We would never dupe you into signing Weaver. Halama, on the other hand…
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Assuming that it's a done deal
When his plane comes into Mitchell Field, someone should point out the “Welcome to Cleveland” sign on the roof and tell him the whole thing was a joke.
Coffee is for closers
Assuming the stories are right … congratulations to all you Brewers fans, you’re getting one hell of a pitcher.
Lots of Indians fans would tell you that they became instant Brewers fans after the way Milwaukee greeted the Indians for that home-away-from-home series last April. It’s tough to see him go, but it feels good seeing him go to the team that those fans are rooting for — and, frankly, to see him going to another small-market team.
A lot of us
became Indians fans because of that as well. Although I think almost everyone on this board is a slight fan of whoever Grady is playing for.
They’re a bunch of 12-year-old girls here apparently.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
yeah, thanks
we’re glad to have you.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
ditto
You guys are getting what everyone says is the next Braun-Albert Pujols type, and I hope he pans out that way.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
Thank you, very gracious.
Just talked to my brother in Cleveland. The news is already on talk radio, and the idiots are saying “They just traded the Cy Young winner for one Double-A prospect!!!!!”
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I was over at your place
Is DocNo insane all the time, or just today? LaPorta plus Gallardo/Parra? Parra by himself would have been overpaying and defeated the purpose of the deal.
And I would be very surprised if LaPorta doesn’t report to AAA and is promoted to the big league roster in September.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Tensions are high, man. You guys have only had to deal with the C.C. thing for, what, a month? We’ve been doing this since last November, if not earlier.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The insane part
is that neither Parra or Gallardo are prospects. They are legit major league starters with 4+ years of club control after 2008. If YoGa was healthy this year, the only reason the Brewers would even be sniffing at CC is to keep him away from the Cubs. It’s ok to rate your guys pretty high and want a lot in return, but you need to value your trading partners talent appropriately. And if you guys wanted pitching, you came to the wrong organization.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I get you. I’m just saying, for a serious Tribe fan, this is the culmination of 8 months of beard scratching and bar pounding. So, with no intent of defending or offending anybody, I will say you’re unlikely to get any of us at our most rational right now.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha, I’m a Marquette grad, so I’ve got some familiarity with that as well.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, and if you were over there, you know that that’s what I told him.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
no, not insane all the time, but more than occasionally in some state of intoxication, which was the case last night (I’m also in Europe, so I have a 6-hour head start on the beers in comparison to the other posters). So yeah, on the overreaction indictment I plea guilty as charged.
I must say (in my own defense) that I did not realistically expect that CC would land us either Gallardo or Parra in return, even if it sounded that way (please don’t quote). But it sure would have been nice.
Is LaPorta + minor-league roster-fodder enough? I guess that will depend on whether LaP goes Braun or Marte* next year.
- Cf. Marte, Andy: resigned disillusionment about can’t-miss hitting prospects, p.2007-8.
Yes, thank you, Brewers, for giving me a team I can hopefully still be rooting for this October.
If you should happen to encounter Sox of any color on your way to the championship, please break them into tiny bits.
or by some weird chance some guy named Justin.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
Odd man out
Since no one on the ML roster is mentioned as being part of the deal…........who is the odd man out to make room for CC?
not sure
but i’m wondering who is the odd man out of the rotation, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Suppan has pitched the worse by far, but I doubt they would move him to the bullpen. Bush or McClung is the most likely move, although both have pitched well enough to stay in. Good problem to have, I guess.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
I suspect Stetter
He’s the only pitcher on the team that can be optioned and throwing two innings today means he likely wouldn’t be available even for lefty specialist duties for a day or two anyway. If it’s not Stetter, then it’s probably Joe Dillon.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
It's my understanding...
That the Brewers included Jeffries but sabotaged the deal by sending him to both OAR shows at Summerfest this week.
by Rawiswar on Jul 6, 2008 6:21 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I’ve been laughing for about a minute at this.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice one
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
Wikipedia
It says the trade went down, and everyone knows, it is rarely wrong.
Coffee is for closers
Wikipedia is the most horrendously First!-infested web site ever.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I know it's not worth much...
... but in my opinion this is a mistake unless one of the the following 3 things happen:
1) The Brewers end up in the Series this year with a healthy Sabathia slated to start 2 games.
2) The Brewers somehow end up signing Sabathia to an extension.
3) LaPorta turns into a present-day Glen Braggs.
None of those seem very likely to me. Of course, the 4th possibility is that Jack Z rebalances the deal in the Brewers favor by hitting the jackpot with the compensation picks we’ll get when Sabathia leaves.
Go Brewers!
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
I disagree...
This is a team that has not been in the playoffs for 26 years. If they make the playoffs due to strong performances by CC, then it is a success. No matter what happens in the playoffs, it would be worth it just to give us the chance to move on.
The trade is a failure if CC sucks, gets injured or doesn’t notice Counsell beneath him and squashes him while walking through the clubhouse.
Making the playoffs doesn't mean squat if your stay is short and you're not in a position to be back the next year.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
but the thing is
you can’t predict what will happen once you make the playoffs. I can guarantee you that the Brewers won’t win the World Series if they don’t make the playoffs.
True
Provided the AA team only lost Laporta, I don’t think this trade will hurt our chances next year. If we make the playoffs though, it’ll definitely look to the casual Brewer fan like we’re making progress, and fans will buy tickets in record numbers again next year.
Coffee is for closers
It means a lot of money, actually
Money to sign free agents and draft picks.
He's extremely quick and good.
Ok.
They’ll need it to sign all those extra picks again next year.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I would ammend
number 1 to state that the Brewers make the playoffs. Once the playoffs start anything can happen with such short series. If everyone stays healthy and the Crew has Sheets and Sabthia pitching in a best of 5 then I will take my chances. If we have to give up a few prospects (even 1 great prospect) for a better chance at the first playoff berth since 1982 then Moustache had to make the deal.
I hear you.
The idea of being able to run out Sheets/Sabathia 1-2 in a playoff series does make me feel better about our chances for success should we get there.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Given Yost's pattern this year
“Early” would be 125 pitches into the game
No kidding.
And I’m guessing Sabathia will get the same treatment once they confirm they can’t sign him before he hits free agency. I’d hate to see how Ned treats his rental cars.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear you
But there are too many prospects and given that and the opportunity to compete I like the way it worked out (so far).
I think we are certainly better if we do make the playoffs
I’ve always been worried about us making the playoffs and not having the pitching to win us a series. But with Sheets Sabathia Parra and Soup going for the playoffs I’d feel a lot better about winning a series
Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay
he said
we didn’t need any change on the team.
by baseballdan1092 on Jul 6, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
bbtn
they still haven’t reported the sabathia trade…not sure whether to laugh at them or be worried.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
I love it something you'd expect to be headline news on Baseball Tonight
gets the last 30 seconds of the show, barely squeaking in there.
Most important line though
WATCH OUT FOR THE BREWERS!!!
I got all excited about the small market team getting some airtime
But then I realized that the only people watching BBTN at 7 o’clock on a Sunday are Yankees-Red Sox fans and Brewers fans desperate for their moment in the sun. It’s just that darn ESPN New York biased media. My Goodness.
What value to put on
keeping Sabathia away from the Cubs, and their unique combination of talent and money? With the Cubs offense, giving them Big Z and CC in a short series would be a difficult hill to climb. With their rotation as it is now, they may be pressed to make the playoffs if the Cards keep playing well.
if they don't make the playoffs
the team should hire grief counselors and set up hotlines for anyone feeling desperate.
One side effect
Us getting him might push the Cubs to trade away their future for one of the other available pitchers.
Coffee is for closers
That would be a plus for you — especially since “one of the other available” won’t be a reigning Cy Young.
First strike is usually best when it comes to the trade season — for both sides.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this
the high point of being a Brewers fan since 1982? We have two number one starters, a stacked lineup, a loaded minor league system, a good front office, the best record in a long time, and a summer pennant race(s) against our 2 biggest rivals.
Not until
we actually make the playoffs.
"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder
by SRB on Jul 6, 2008 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
ESPN
finally reported it on baseball tonight.
The Brewers have won the C.C. Sabathia sweepstakes-Ken Rosenthal
Now we need to make sure he starts Tuesday
That means he can start Sunday before the ASB and then Thursday coming off the break. Work that horse! I’d like to see McClung back to the pen as he has experience in the pen and probably could fit in very well there.
I was thinking the exact opposite
You leave Seth in the rotation because he has just gotten to the point of being used to pitch 6-7 innings for the first time in many years. His stamina would probably fall off more quickly than Bush, and the biggest benefit the long guy gives you is to step back into the rotation in the event of an injury.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
You've played right into our hands!
The Cubs’ platoon splits favor hitting against LHP.
Seriously, though, I’m not really sure this radically changes the playoff odds for either team; the Brewers are probably a better team than the Cards and the East and West aren’t impressive this year, so I think two teams come out of the Central this year.
Well it may not affect our odds of making the playoffs
but it definately affects our odds of Winning the Central and going deep into the Playoffs should we get there
To restate
Firing a double-barreled ace shotgun of Sheets and Sabathia in the playoffs would be nifty.
He's extremely quick and good.
I'd say it changes their playoff chance greatly
If you assume they are 1.5 games better now that translates to about a 15% increase if you believe BP’s numbers. So something like 70% instead of the 55% or so they were after the win today.
by dixieflatline on Jul 6, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
BP's playoff odds are based on the assumption that the Cardinals were as good...
...as their third-order win percentage. I don’t think that expecting their run prevention to continue to be this good is any more realistic than assuming a month ago that Fielder wasn’t going to hit home runs. That’s my hunch, at least.
I disagree
I think the Cards are about as good as BP things. .505 team or so. Teams like that can play .540 ball over a half easy. Look at the cards in the first half.
by dixieflatline on Jul 6, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
In the first half they had Wainwright.
Losing Wainwright is bad enough, but the Cardinals were already piecing together their bullpen with bailing wire and twine. Reportedly Mulder is going to be back in the rotation soon, and I don’t think he’s anywhere near ready for it. So I see them falling off a bit.
Well Carp might come back
I agree that they SHOULD fall back but now over less than 80 games they could still play well.
by dixieflatline on Jul 6, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably not
Game ended a few hours ago!
"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder
by SRB on Jul 6, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Pre-trade.
9 games started and 23 appearances. I think your rotation is Sheets, McClung, Parra, Suppan and Bush, but I’m not 100% certain.
Yeah, that's right
He’s still in the ‘pen, kind of a long man / middle reliever I believe. Although, Mike Maddux says roles are defined by the pitcher.
If he's the Prince, then I'm the King.
Yes, but Shouse would have to consent to a demotion
Since he has >5 years experience.
He's extremely quick and good.
I'm not sure about Shouse
I thought I heard only Stetter had options. But that might have been out of the guys we definitely don’t want in the bullpen, only Stetter has options. Villy ain’t going to AAA, and Shouse is a 39 year old reliever who hasn’t hit free agency yet so I’m guessing his options were used up some time ago.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, look at that!
A fan from another team showed up on an opponents blog and no one cursed at him or told him to leave. I wonder how that happened? Oh yeah. We’re not Cubs fans.
Nice to see ya cwyers.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
You're probably right
Unless Atlanta stops being absurdly unlucky. I would much rather set my sights on the guaranteed spot, which this addition arguably tips towards Milwaukee.
"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder
by SRB on Jul 6, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing's for sure
The Brewers just acquired the best player named Carsten in major league history.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
so
if the Brewers win the title this year there will be a bunch of babies in the Milwaukee area named Carsten next summer?
pretty good day, huh?
-The Brewers beat the Pirates 11-6 to finish off a sweep
-Braun named an All-Star starter, Sheets also on the team
-They pull into a tie for the NL Wild Card
-They trade for the reigning AL Cy Young winner
Not a bad days work.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
Great day!
Didn’t think about it that way. There was a collective breath of relief now that the trade is out and about and ESPN’d. TH can only do so much to make me feel good, despite his “trust me, this is a done deal.”
I'm wondering
if cub fan votes pushed Braun over the edge.
they know he has an injured hand and wants to participate in the home run derby. If he makes the starters, he’ll probably get that option and won’t get enough rest to become a major force in the second half.
evil cub fans.
are we
...allowed to give Haudricourt credit now for doing old-fashioned reporting, keeping fans in the loop throughout the process, and being the first to break the scoop? We’ve linked to his report, does that mean we’re acknowledging that indeed there may be some areas in which it is useful to read information supplied by the beat reporters?
(Yes, his access gives him a decided advantage over bloggers and he’s obviously doing his job. But its nice to have the hometown reporter be the lead on this story—not the Indians, not ESPN, not anybody else. Everything he knew, we knew. For all the grief he’s taken around here, I just wanted to say: Well done Tom H.)
by James Stanley Cocanower on Jul 6, 2008 7:25 PM CDT reply actions
I have no complaints about today's coverage
But looking back over the last couple days, he was consistently behind the curve on the trade news, even going to so far to insist that team would never trade LaPorta. There are just too many “in my opinions” in those trade diaries. Even today, the Indians’ beat writer broke the story that it was official.
He's extremely quick and good.
indians guy
I wouldn’t say the Indians guy broke the trade – didn’t he write about it on his own personal blog and say it was a rumor?
It should also be pointed out that other media outlets put out information that turned out to be wrong too, floating Escobar and Hardy’s names.
YoGanna win with Gallardo on the mound.
Look, I’ve got no dog in this hunt — I don’t care about Hardricourt one way or another — but he was definitely ahead of the Indians reporters today. Apparently ahead in getting the information, definitely ahead in reporting it.
The Indians.com guy reported that it was more or less a done deal early this afternoon. He later recanted, quoting Shapiro as saying it was “definitively not a done deal.” The Cleveland newspaper beat guys knew and/or reported even less.
I would say Hardricourt definitely broke the story that the deal was definitely done.
by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I didn’t know the Indians’ writer subsequently recanted. Like I said, I think Tom did fine today, but I wouldn’t generalize my satisfaction to the entire coverage of the rumors over the last week or so.
He's extremely quick and good.
You've got to cut the Indians beat reporters some slack here though...
... since their sources inside the Indians organization had an interest in muddying the waters while in this case the Brewers organization had every reason to be forthcoming with Haudricourt. I’m willing to give TH credit for getting it right, but it makes sense in these circumstances for the Brewers beat guy to get the story before his counterparts who cover the Indians.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
technically
there is no “we” here. “we” didn’t all collectively decide never to link JS again.
the no-linking policy is mine and mine only. and one day of not sub-standard reporting isn’t going to change that.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure if its been stated
But does anyone know what time the press conference is scheduled for tomorrow?
Tatis
just hit a 2 run HR for the Mets in the top of the 12th. Astros and Braves still going in the bottom of the 16th.
Jamie Burke (backup catcher) got the loss for the Mariners today
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Peter Gammons reports (via David Pinto) that no contract extension was involved in the trade talks.
He's extremely quick and good.
So...let's talk nicknames
How about C.C. “Black” Sabathia, with “Electric Funeral” as his theme song?
He's extremely quick and good.
When you’re a 6-foot-7, 300-pound black man who can throw 97 MPH and is named Carsten Charles Sabathia, you don’t tend to need a nickname. But I wish you luck.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I should update the prospect rankings, eh?
I’ll try to get that done tonight.
He's extremely quick and good.
Cubs' response?
In calls around the league, here’s some blind quotes:..."The Cubs will react quickly to any deals in their division."
He's extremely quick and good.
Sabathia himself confirms it!
In a text message to ESPN.com’s Amy K. Nelson, Sabathia all but confirmed the deal.link“I’m good, excited,” Sabathia wrote. “It’s weird leaving these guys.”
He's extremely quick and good.
Apropos your signature
Carlos Lee moved in to third base as a fifth infielder when the Braves had the bases loaded and no one out in the bottom of the 17th.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Out of curiousity...
Who are the other two minor leaguers?
Not sure yet
Taylor Green played today for Brevard County , but it seems pretty likely that he’s one of them.
He's extremely quick and good.
Hey guys, visitor from Red Reporter here
Congrats on getting CC. I’m not really excited having him in the same division as the Reds, but I think this makes you guys the team to beat in the Central. So, by all means, please win the division, and make all of the Cubs fans cry.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
Awesome!!!
I was hesitant about giving away too much during this whole leadup, but now I have to say that all concerns aside, this feels terrific. For the first time since 1992, we have a shot at winning the big one. Compare that to five years ago, it just feels good to be in the game. In previous years, we never even had the chance to screw this up. I remember lamenting that we would build Miller Park, which would be the nicest AAA stadium by 2012, and here we are, absolutely relevant. Obviously, if Laporta becomes a perennial all-star, and the Brewers make the playoffs or Sabathia stinks it up, I’ll be upset, but this is trade you have to make.
Cain promoted
It was pretty much a given that Cain would be the OF receiving a bump to AA in the wake of LaPorta’s departure, but MLBTR reports he’s already been promoted.
He's extremely quick and good.
Interesting to see
if the Indians organization starts LaPorta in Buffalo and, if so, how long before he makes it to the big show.
That scares me
If Cain was promoted, he’s not part of the deal. Who else at Brevard would/could be included in this. I am sceered that Jeffries might be part of this, and that would make me less thrilled about the deal.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions
We already knew Cain wasn't part of the deal
And why assume that the third player was from Brevard?
He's extremely quick and good.
They are talking low level prospect
No one in AA fits that description, and I’m assuming that most of the guys in West Virginia haven’t been with the organization more than a year.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Even most players from last year's draft have been in the organization over a year
He's extremely quick and good.
Sidebar
check out the sidebar to the ESPN article about where Sabathia would rank in club history if he had been in Milwaukee his whole career
by molitorfan on Jul 6, 2008 8:38 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
They're still in denial over at the other BCB...
... with some posting that the trade isn’t finalized and is a “prediction” at this point, while Al himself has mentioned repeatedly how embarassed the Brewers organization will be when/if the deal falls through at the last moment.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:45 PM CDT reply actions
I was over there for awhile and I tried to be nice and cordial
But my avatar didn’t really help things.
I saw that. I think you have to expect to get jumped when you go over there and try to point out the holes in the anti-Brewers arguments they're making.
RJ, on the other hand, didn’t appear to deserve the reaction he got, even with the L flag avatar he had at first.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't mind getting jumped but
to act like the acquisition of CC isn’t that important is just ridiculous.
Eh, it was my own fault
with my L avatar and signature, I suppose I brought some of it on myself. Still, the season-ending series vs the Cubs could be incredible.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
i think that they think
your signature is you, and not one of them… unattributed and all… know what i mean?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
That's how I took it too.
Which made it even funnier than it otherwise would have been.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I got that impression too
though it would have been funny to explain, I didn’t want to start another BCB dust-up.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Yes, it's entertaining to read
2 separate posters have written that the Brewers were 9 games under .500 at one point this year. Glad they check their facts.
Yeah, good thing we kept Gamel and not LaPorta
We’d have the wrong kind of mat(t)!
He's extremely quick and good.
a report at the WI State Journal
claims that the trade is Sabathia for LaPorta, pitchers Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson, and a PTBNL.
by Zeyes on Jul 6, 2008 9:16 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That would be fantastic
Jackson is nothing, and Bryson, though promising, is a long way from every being anything.
He's extremely quick and good.
Yeah
I’d be thrilled if they didn’t have to give up Green. He’s one of my favorites because of his versatility at 2nd or 3rd and the fact that he’s hitting in Space Ghost Stadium.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
Plus
it sounds like he’s the only player in the entire organization who can field third base.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Branyan says hello
(I don’t know why he’s saying hello, though.)
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
He's still with the team?
Haven’t seen him around for a while.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Bryson is a nice sleeper pick, yeah
but definitely nobody worth losing any sleep over. Jackson can become a killer setup guy in the AL for all I care (and I do care, a little bit anyway…maybe the guy just needs a change of scenery).
and goes beyond it and
insinuates the PTBNL could well be Green, after all…makes sense, I suppose. If it’s anybody less than that, the trade starts looking a bit lopsided IMO.
He's not dinged up or anything is he?
Or maybe it’s that they want to look at his glove more?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Nevermind
Says the Injuns want to evaluate Green as a second baseman. I wonder if that means the Brewers will oblige and play him there a bit at Brevard.
He's extremely quick and good.
Weird
isn’t the consensus that he’s really good at second and is stretched at third?
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
...and thinking more, I wonder who the PTBNL becomes if they Indians decide they DON'T like him as a 2B
Though I can’t foresee that happening.
He's extremely quick and good.
I really like Cain
He can play center, but isn’t because of Darren Ford. He’s got much better tools than Green, also. As I’ve said many times before, I can’t wait to see what he does once he gets out of Brevard (though the same can be rightly applied to Green).
He's extremely quick and good.
The deal seems like it was essentially LaPorta-Green-Bryson, no? We may be in need of some warm bodies in the rotation this year with Westbrook and Carmona hurt, C.C. traded, and Byrd likely to follow. Could be that Jackson was just a throw-in.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Should add, Jackson vs. the Tigers ought to be a hoot.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
That 30 run output the Rangers had last year?
Their distinction is in severe danger.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
LaPorta quote on rumors (obviously from before the trade was confirmed)
“It’s kind of flattering to have your name being brought up for one of the best pitchers in the game,” LaPorta said. “There would be no hard feelings one way or another. This is a business, and I understand that.”
He found out about his name being brought up when some teammates told him a couple of days ago that they’d seen his name on ESPN.
Don Money tried to be funny:
Stars manager Don Money joked that he would be the last to hear about it if a trade happened.
“CNN,” Money said, pointing toward his television. “That’s how I’ll find out about it. I listen to the TV, and I know the deadline is (July) 31st. That’s about all I know.”
Link to the story on al.com
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Seems a bit ratty that way, but...
If I were a GM, I wouldn’t trust anyone. Just the way the world is now.
If they can dump Zach Jackson in this, we have a whole new Sexson threat continuation!
I am pro-Cameron
Haudricourt thinks the fourth player is Green
I really don’t want to give him up. They can have Cain.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
big win for indians
i like this deal, and i think watching sabathia pitch for the brewers, and watching the brewers make a run at the postseason is going to be a lot of fun.
but giving up laporta is way too much for sabathia. so, i have to believe that the brewers don’t feel corey hart can play centerfield, or that gamel won’t stick at third. Seems to me to be pretty likely that at least one of those is true, and that really does block laporta, which makes him a whole lot less valuable to us.
so in the end, we’re giving something up that we might never be able to use for probably the best possible return.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
I don't really get how the substance of your post (which I agree with) makes this a "big with for the Indians"
He's extremely quick and good.
laporta is a really nice addition for them
and they gave up virtually nothing.
equals big win.
this is not like losing nelson cruz
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Shhh.
I’ve been trying to convince myself this is just like losing Nelson Cruz for the last 2 hours.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
You could argue that the Brewers gave up "virtually nothing" also
After all, if you don’t have a place to play a guy, what’s that guy worth to you? Granted, LaPorta’s value is largely dictated by what he’s worth to other teams, but I think it’s a point worth considering.
He's extremely quick and good.
Hmmmm.
Dammit battlekow, you’re starting to make me feel better about the whole thing. Particularly, for me anyway, since Gamel doesn’t appear to have any chance of sticking at 3rd.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Though if Green is the PTBNL...
... I really have to wonder if we’re ever going to bring a legit 3B to the big leagues in my lifetime.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 6, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to nitpick, Gamel is more than athletic to play the corner OF
Whether or not he’ll actually do so, which is contingent on Hart being able to play CF, remains to be seen.
He's extremely quick and good.
sure
obviously i agree it’s a point worth considering, it’s the point that i made in my comment above.
but that’s the point you make from the fan perspective, in order to swallow the business perspective.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
No, it's the point you make from a realistic perspective so that you can properly evaluate and value your own properties
Which, in my opinion, the Brewers have. No doubt, it’s a win for the Indians as well. But to call it a “big win for the Indians” implies it is something other than that for the Brewers, which I disagree with.
He's extremely quick and good.
no
No, it’s the point you make from a realistic perspective so that you can properly evaluate and value your own properties
i don’t follow that. you’re not saying that because laporta is “less valuable” to the brewers he is therefore less valuable to other teams, right? that’s not realistic.
i assume you are saying that it is easier for the brewers to part with laporta because he may not have a place with the future brewers, which is certainly true, but should not affect his value.
imagine you have two of the exact same rare automobiles. you really only can use one, do you “give” the other away? value is not determined only by your utility.
laporta is worth more to a baseball franchise than sabathia is, laporta is more valuable than sabathia, the indians win big because they acquire more value.
the brewers have actually taken on more risk, the risk that, what, 15 starts from carsten will be the difference in how the season plays out for the brewers. that’s actually a larger gamble than what they had with laporta. but the payoff is real, tangible, and now, which makes it more palatable.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
I just wrote "LaPorta’s value is largely dictated by what he’s worth to other teams."
As you and I are both pointing out, value is relative, which makes the trade, as I said, a win for both teams. Look, in my original post, I said I agreed with the body but took umbrage with the title, which acts as a summary of sorts. I’m merely disputing the notion that the Indians come out way ahead of the Brewers.
He's extremely quick and good.
some value is relative
laporta has an absolute value in terms of runs and wins. In a perfect world, equal amounts of absolute value are traded, and the trades happen because the relative values are different.
sabathia’s second half is far more valuable to the brewers than the indians, obviously. but laporta’s absolute value is far greater than sabathia’s. so the indians come out way ahead.
in order to argue that the indians don’t come out way ahead, you have to show that a half season of carsten is worth six full seasons of laporta in terms of wins… Or you have to show how the increase in the odds of postseason success this season offsets the increase in odds of postseason success that laporta brings for six future seasons.
i’m certain neither of those can be done, and i’m certain the indians end the day with more value than they started with. a lot more.
note: i’m not knocking the trade, we increase our odds, and increase the excitement factor for THIS year. I like rolling the dice. I like trading value for risk. I’m the guy that says to the carny, here’s another dollar, let me try again. It’s fun. Besides, with the scouting team’s track record i don’t have a lot of doubt that laporta can be replaced with a couple of first round picks.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
That's not right
You need to compare marginal value, plus the values of the expected outcomes. LaPorta may hit 50 HR, but if the next best option is able to hit 45 you only increase your production by 5 HR. Since the next best options in RF are Hart/Gamel the marginal increase of LaPorta’s production isn’t an overwhelming value. Also, a WS win is worth more than being competitive for the next six years.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
no, that's not right.
you’re talking about relative value when you say marginal value, we covered that, your marginal value affects your willingness to trade, but not the trade value.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Value
Value is only “value” in the context of winning.
LaPorta over his career will almost assuredly have move value than 3 months of Sabathia will have to the Brewers.
However, IF Sabathia’s immediate value yields a short (but oh so important) payoff, then it is a great deal for both teams.
Basically, there is short term and long term value. Neither is, in and of itself, more important than the other.
by badgermaniac on Jul 6, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
right.
only, the short term and long term values can be compared once you put them on the same scale, and therefore one could be “more important” than the other.
for example, what would you as a fan want, 1 world series victory and 5 losing seasons, or 6 winning seasons, always in the playoff hunt. how about if you’re the owner?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Ill take option #1
We’ve endured 14(?) straight losing seasons. I can handle more if it means a World Series.
Discounting
All you are doing here is discounting future wins…
Say Sabathia is worth two wins this year or whatever… And Laporta is worth significantly more than that over the next six.
The future wins for LaPorta are significantly less valuable because they don’t come this year. In a pennant race.
Yeah, in an absolute context LaPorta is more valuable. Yeah, the Indians would get jack from say the Pirates for Sabathia because the disount rates are different.
Anyway, I am all over this trade. Love it. Celebratory beers when I get off work. Or before.
That's it?
And at this rate the Brewers can pull off another trade of this caliber before the trade deadline. Christ, they might even be able to pull off two. At the very least they can drive up the asking price for any pitcher the Cubs do want. We got crappy pitchers coming out our a$$ at AAA
But the Jays have the mighty Eckstein
What do they need another SS for? Except to present believable ID to drive and have at least one SS that can go on all the rides at Six Flags.
But you hit the nail on the head why the Cubs should be worried. We can actually deal ML talent and replace it with a similar level of production if that is what is needed to get a deal done. So long as a team isn’t looking for pitching, Melvin has the parts to get almost any deal done. It’s just a matter of how much to leverage the future for now.
by Getting Yosted on Jul 6, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
AJ being a Cub that is...
Don’t forget that the Phillies have action coming in the trade market.
I am pro-Cameron
I'd heartily approve of a big-time Phillies trade
The NL West won’t be much to worry about, but anything that gives the Phillies an even better chance to run away with the East title and beat down the rest of the division in the process (and eliminate our wild card competition) would be aokay with me.
that's my guess too
and they don’t really have any other option unless they go with Hall next year
Braun – ? – Hart
Hardy – Escobar – Weeks – Gamel
Counsell's got a club option
I’m just sayin’...
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Indeed he does
For all the disparaging of his skills I do around here, I honestly think he’s a perfectly adequate-if overpriced-utility infielder.
If not for that weird trade provision, we could probably trade him for Burnett ;) (just kidding! but he’s certainly an improvement on North America’s Only SD Ballplayer.)
Does anyone think the club will take their option on Counsell for 2009?
I wouldn't be surprised.
As a backup infielder, he’s still very good. That option is hardly a steal, but I would imagine he’d get something in the neighborhood if he were on the open market.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 6, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, will Escobar be called up next year do you think?
The Brewers like their one step at a time thing, and Escobar seems like he’s staying at AA this year, which would put him in AAA next year. The best we could hope for is a midseason call-up, but they won’t have JJ switch positions in the middle of the season.
Related: Do the Brewers lead the league in switching players from position to position? (Pretty sure I could have worded that better)
I'm not a fan of the x's betwixt either word.
Though I have been juxtaposing players stats on the all-stars final vote to see which to vote for in the AL.
If gamel stays at third he's not moving up
The Brewers want him to continue to work with Don Money in AA.
If he moves to OF or 1B who knows where he’ll go.
Bottleneck
Sounds are already having a hard enough time trying to find enough playing time for their corner guys. Katin and Nelson are still young enough to be considered prospects, they want to keep Nix ready in case somebody goes down, etc.
Nelson is in his fourth season at AAA and is completely blocked at the big league level
(unless you consider him a 3B, which most don’t)
He’s not a prospect.
Katin’s plate discipline is so poor that he’s nothing at this point, though his power is impressive. He’d have to improve his BB% significantly simply to be considered for a call-up.
He's extremely quick and good.
Right
Nelson’s simply a decent insurance option at this point. I’m impressed with his hitting ability, which seems to have improved since last season (basically, he’s stopped trying to hit everything out of the park), but like you said he’s basically limited to 1B. I had also briefly forgotten that he had been in AAA for part of 2005.
Katin… God. The nine walks that he has on the season come as a big shock to me; the only time I ever remember seeing him draw a walk was when he was walked intentionally.
I guess the two things don't necessarily depend on each other
you can move Escobar up to AAA and prepare to move Hardy to 3b or maybe trade him, and keep Gamel in AA for a while to decide if he can stick at third.
What time is the press conference scheduled for tomorrow morning?
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
OT
but thought this was funny from Let’s Go Tribe:
“was just over at the Brewers equivalent of LGT. The comment subject for every post is too much. Sickening, really.”
"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue
The Subject of this Comment: Comment Subjects
They think we’re overdoing it? Huh.
Ichiro, on facing Daisuke Matsuzaka for the first time: "I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul."
I’m another visitor from Let’s Go Tribe (note no use of the subject line! – ;))
Congrats on the deal. We’re generally pretty happy, but sad. Since I’ve seen a ton of CC’s starts, I’ll give you an overall scouting report.
Fastball – Generally sits in the low 90’s, though when he’s feeling loose (like he has in the last month), it’s 94-96. Also cuts it from time to time. He pounds righties inside. If he doesn’t overthrow, he usually has excellent command, and that plays up his other pitches as well. He always falls off the mound, but if he’s under control it’s usually not as bad. When he overthrows, he really falls off the mound and loses command (see 2007 playoffs). His fastball is generally not a swing-and-miss fastball, even at 94-96, but he will get some with good command.
Breaking ball – more of a slurve rather than a slider or a curve, though he will sometimes take something off and make it more of a curve. Sits in the low 80’s. When he has this working and has command of his fastball, he’s absolutely dominant. He overmatches both lefties and righties with this pitch.
Changeup – sits at 85-87 (yes, that’s right). Earlier in his career, he only had moderate success with this pitch, but with his fastball command greatly improved, this pitch has become a great weapon for him as well. Only throws it to righties, and will often use it to entice double plays. He has a lot of confidence in his changeup, and you will often see him use it on 2-0 counts.
Hitting – I don’t think there’s much doubt that he was the best hitting pitcher in the AL. Hit a 440-foot homer in LA last month.
Like you should expect, you are getting a great pitcher, the best Indians pitcher in my lifetime. Again, the only problem he usually runs into is overthrowing, so that might be an issue Tuesday night. It was definitely an issue last postseason, as he was 96-97 pretty regularly and didn’t have his same command.
I’ll be watching Brewers games every fifth day now. Good luck the rest of the year.
P.S. We at LGT find that use of the subject line is distracting when reading threaded posts as well as making it confusing when a sentence is started in the subject line and finished down below. No hard feelings, though…we’re just tweaking you.
Thanks!
I think lots of us were excited about LaPorta so we’re kind of in that “happy but sad” frame of mind as well.
LaPorta is going to be a badass and I’ll have a reason to follow the Tribe from now on. Any idea if he’ll be fast tracked or how long it’ll be before he’s up?
No, I don’t. I would think he’d move to AA Akron and end up in AAA. He may end up in Cleveland during September, but they may want to keep him off the 40-man (which I believe they can do this winter).
They have a lot of decisions to make – including if they want him in the outfield or at first.
The Indians don’t have a whole lot of incentive to start his clock unless Matt’s REALLY unimpressed with minor league pitching. Obviously we want him competing for a 25-man spot next year, so he’ll get some time at the end of the season.
He’ll probably start in Akron—close to the Cleveland brass, and he’ll have to make some media rounds.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ll add to TribeJay’s analysis that I’ve seen C.C. shake off fastballs to throw his change-up in full counts this season. On his best nights, it’s an out pitch. He used to be fond of a power slurve, but in general he seems to like it slower these days. He’ll still bring the fastball high and hot, but the breaking ball is his real strikeout weapon.
by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Suppan
Before you give up on Sup remember that he was bad in July last year. After that he was probably the Brewers best pitcher down the stretch then
Kinda big news
From Taylor Green’s agent on Brewerfan.net:
Green will not be a ptbnl. Green would just be in the trade, if its a ptbnl its going to be someone from the 07 or 08 draft.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
that is pretty big news
"If there is a more reactionary blog with idiotic commentary out there I'd be surprised." -On Bleed Cubbie Blue
also mentioned in the BF.net thread is that it could be someone currently on the DL like Derek Miller or Steven Hammond.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
By the way
that’s not an official, end all comment- he kinda retracted afterwards- but the odds of Green being involved are less.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
His comments on his blog make him sound pretty much as uninformed as the rest of us: he hasn’t been told Green is being traded, and neither has Green, but beyond that, he doesn’t know anything.
He's extremely quick and good.
battlk...I may need a hug on this one
Did we just give Bagwell away, and/or is it Sutton v2?
I am pro-Cameron
Nah, we probably traded...
I dunno, Mark Ellis? A valuable role player, I’d say.
He's extremely quick and good.
Yeah
I just read further in the thread and he wrote this:
Im an idiot and underestimated something. I guess Cleveland wants to scout the PTBNL more in depth and thats one reason that player hasnt been named. Sorry I did not take that into account. On the other hand they could be lying.
So it looks like Green is on a list of potential PTBNLs.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
If Green really is their target, and they're evaluating his 2B ability, he's as good as gone
He's extremely quick and good.
Yeah, it seems a bit unusual
Especially because it requires the Brewers’ complicity in playing Green at 2B.
He's extremely quick and good.
By the way, if it really is Green
Then we traded one AAA, AA, A+, and A player. Kinda interesting.
He's extremely quick and good.
'08 draft is off-limits
is it not? seeing as PTBNL have to be declared within 6 months and they have to have been signed for a year before being traded?
I can live with that
CC better be all up about beating the snot out of the Cubs/Phillies/Dodgers
I am pro-Cameron
Best thing
I’ve seen in a while, nice!
"My thing is that you guys eat meat all day and you can't hit a ball. That's my thing." - P. Fielder
Nice job!
I’m a graphic designer so I know that isn’t the easiest thing in the world to do, great work! That website’s all updated and everything, wow, cool stuff!
If he's the Prince, then I'm the King.
A Cub fan in the office
Says Chicago radio is claiming the PTBNL is Hardy.
Please
Is he sure it’s not Corey Hart?
Don't try to do too much with it. Just take the ball the other way.
by shooty babitt on Jul 7, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that there is usually a list, where the Brewers would agree to reserve a certain number of guys, say 10 AAA, 5 AA, 5 A players and then Cleveland could pick from the guys that are not off the table. What we don;t know are the parameters.
I don't know for sure
but I think the list is generally much shorter, like 3-5 guys. In this case, it sounds like there might be a couple of backup options if the Indians decide they don’t want Green.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 7, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
A Cleveland writer thinks Brantley is still a possibility, but I call BS.
He's extremely quick and good.
so does
brantley’s agent, whom i believed you’ve linked to before.
The next client I thought could get dealt was Michael Brantley, but I was told by good sources that I trust that he was not ever up for discussion so problem solved there.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
Haha
It’s funny because I was just watching Skip Bayless on ESPN2 and he repeatedly said “Matt La Por Ta”, carefully enunciating it like a very foreign word. He also openly admitted that he knew nothing about the prospects, including La Por Ta, but that didn’t stop him from opining vociferously about the deal.
He's extremely quick and good.
Skip Bayless
Is one of those guys that drives me crazy with just about everything he says. I feel like he takes the most contrarian position on every possible topic just to be that guy.
His closing comment about how the Indians failed to get a pitcher in return cracked me up, seeing as just about every report has them getting 2 pitchers in return plus the PTNL. He obviously research the trade pretty hard before commenting on it on the air.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Jul 7, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
seeing as
i don’t have any of those oldfangled technology things that actually get games (radio, cable/sat TV).
it’s sa-bath-eee-ahhh, right?
I still want to say Theroit as the-row….
Brewers Press Conference
according to espn, there is a presser scheduled for Noon eastern.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
Yeah
What’s strange is the Indians’ presser isn’t until 90 minutes later.
He's extremely quick and good.
that's why it's a Player to be named
later
duh…:)
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 7, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
This is pretty funny
Great timing for an article about “Huntsville teammates” La Por Ta and Gamel.
He's extremely quick and good.
Random trivia
C.C. will be the first Brewer to wear #52 since Mel Stocker. Since Stocker’s been in the organization longer, do you think they’ll make C.C. change? :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
You never know
It might play out like that scene in Star Wars where they unwittingly fly right into the space worm’s mouth.
He's extremely quick and good.
Shapiro says the PTBNL has the upside of being a "regular Major League player"
He's extremely quick and good.
It does seem like he has a particular guy in mind
He kept saying things like “He was a very important part of the deal” and “the deal doesn’t get done without him.”
He's extremely quick and good.
uh, oh
JJ? as cubs were saying? That’d be insanely bad.
He’s our bargaining chip for an additional major trade. I’d hate to give him up on this one.
Is that the rule?
I thought it was just that PBTNL’s cannot have played in the same league (i.e., American or National, or minors) as the team they’re going to during that season. So the Brewers can’t PBTNL a major leaguer to an NL team but they could do an AL team.
In any case, Hardy doesn’t have the upside of being a regular major league player, he is one. It’s probably as likely that he’s the PBTNL as it is the Brewers are going to acquire some sleeper prospect from another team (with a minor league affiliate in the same league as the Indians’ affiliates) as part of another deal and forward him to Cleveland after the season.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Having just watched Shapiro
He does say that the PTBNL has the upside of becoming a regular Major League player, as in a player that down the line could become a every day player not somebody who is playing just now on the ML team.
He obviously hopes that they will get a great 4th player but without seeing who is one the list that they are going to chose from we can only guess how valuable or otherwise this player will turn out to be.
Shapiro said there were only two players on the list
I assume it’s Brantley and Green, but who knows? Maybe they’ll take Cole Gillespie, so they can have LaPorta and mini-LaPorta both.
He's extremely quick and good.
but...but...
then who will play DH for us?
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 7, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Cincinnati
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Houston
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Milwaukee
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
St. Louis
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
(updated 2.13.2012 at 7:02 AM CST)
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