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Tuesday's Frosty Mug

Here's something to read while twirling your mustache.

Win Probability Graph
BR Box Score

Are you excited for the CC (no periods, just like KL Snow) Sabathia debut tonight? Yes? Then maybe you'll be interested in these notes on Sabathia from around the blogosphere:

Dixieflatline crunched the numbers and says adding Sabathia increased the Brewers' playoff chances by 10%.
Rluzinski says Sabathia improves the team by 1.93 wins, but that projection is based on Sabathia replacing Dave Bush.
In-Between Hops notes the major difference Mark Attanasio has made as owner of the Brewers, as exemplified in this trade.
Jayson Stark says the Cubs are still the favorites to win the Central, but the Brewers are the NL team you least want to face in October.
Saberscouting's PTO% rankings now have two Brewer pitchers in the top 15.
Joe DelGrippo says the Brewers will coast into the playoffs. Coasting isn't something you do when you're in third place.
Babes Love Baseball has changed Sabathia's nickname (formerly "Captain Cheeseburger") to El Capitán Chorizo.
A's Nation is one of a thousand sources saying the Cubs are suddenly interested in Rich Harden.

Also, in today's lone non-Sabathia note, two Brewers made Dave Cameron's Trade Value Top 50 list.

On injuries:
Padres C Michael Barrett hopes to have surgery soon to repair broken bones suffered when fouling a ball off of his face.
Angels C Mike Napoli has been placed on the DL with a sore shoulder.
Dontrelle Willis still has pain in his knee, and is being re-evaluated with the possibility that he has a torn ACL.

Maybe the Central isn't really a three-team race: Redleg Nation notes that if the Reds win their next six, they'll cruise into the All Star break 2 games over .500.

Presumably this was intended for Padres fans, but when you put it on the web you open it up for everyone: Paul DePodesta wants to know how you would handle the trading deadline for the Padres.

I tend to believe I have my finger on an awful lot of pulses, so how is it possible that Francisco Rodriguez has 35 saves before the All Star break, setting a major league record, and I had no idea?

Jeff Francoeur's tenure in AA only lasted 3 days, but the ill will it created looks like it might last a little longer.

Oh, and apparently throwing out first pitches in Korea is pants optional.

Drink up.

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There are a lot of things that I wish were pants optional

Like departmental meetings,and funerals. That would certainly brighten things up.

On a more inquisitive note, now that Laporta is gone, would it be a good idea to move Gamel to right to get him up here quicker?

by Hyatt on Jul 8, 2008 10:08 AM CDT   0 recs

BP’s pecota adjusted playoff odds has the athletics at 40%. Shouldn’t they be considering buying, not selling?

Now if you take a closer look, the A’s are 6 games out of first in the AL West behind a very solid Angels team, and behind the AL East for the wildcard, also they are in year 1, maybe 2 of the complete rebuild… You can make a decent argument to deal Harden.

However, if the Dodgers are interested in Harden, which you have to assume they are, how could the Cubs possibly outbid LA? If fourth (yeah, i’m calling it four now) months of sabathia commands laporta, doesn’t 1.5 years of Harden command about the same thing? Beane should be in no hurry to move Harden, unless he believes you can predict injuries, so something closing in on a Haren-esque haul is required here… I have to believe.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 10:20 AM CDT   0 recs

Harden is a serious injury risk

I have to think that lowers his value.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 10:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if Harden is a serious injury risk, that would certainly lower his value.

but you don’t think that GMs are a little bit “too hip” to believe, as fans do, that injuries are predictable? For me, there isn’t enough individual-specific preventive surgery to allow me to believe that one injury is more likely than another. Maybe the synthetic ligament replacements don’t exist yet.

is Hendry sitting with his medical staff looking at MRIs of Harden’s elbow and shoulder having the areas of extreme wear and tear pointed out to him. then the medical staff point to the studies that show this amount of wear, in this particular ligament leads to this particular injury for a pitcher, this percentage of time. cause that would be uber-cool.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i’ll bet even hendry is smarter than that.

there have been studies that show if you create buckets of players by DL time, there is very little to no correlation with how much time they spend on the DL in the future.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh yeah

I bet there’s no correlation between going on the DL with shoulder problems two years in a row and suffering shoulder problems in the future.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Brewers can still outbid the Cubs

If they want to. Reading the Oakland fans the A’s need the same thing Cleveland needed, and we still have bats to send. Although I am worried about the lack of crappy pitching at AAA to throw into another deal. The Cubs can outbid us with that.

And are Felix Pie and Rich Hill still viewed as prime prospects? At this point I would take TGJr over Pie and Hill seems on his way to become the next Rick Ankeil, but without the 3TO potential and crazy outfield assists.

by Getting Yosted on Jul 8, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Beane is always open for business.

And don’t underrate him – he sold off Haren and that pushed his way into contention somehow. Beane does not sell or buy, he just deals.

by cwyers on Jul 8, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd be nervous as a Cub fan

if I thought of Beane and Hendry in deep negotiations.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that’s kind of an oversimplification, don’t you think? beane just deals? you think he makes deal oblivious to the value players have to this season versus future seasons? that would qualify as underestimating him.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely

Jim Bowden just deals. Beane calculates, though wrongly sometimes.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

K-Rod's 35 Saves

The reason that you didn’t realize it was because he is not on your fantasy team. He has been a great player for me.

by Saberilliterate on Jul 8, 2008 10:34 AM CDT   0 recs

Plus the West Coast is only in the 6th inning when Sportscenter ends

Seriously. If you think ESPN overlooks everything in the Central time zone (or just outside the Boston/NY markets) you should live out here!

Though it was cool seeing the Brewers get some headlines over the past couple of days.

by Brew Angel on Jul 8, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A.J. Burnett/Jack Wilson

The Dodgers and Pirates were rumored to be considering that swap, but it looks like Wilson is pretty much off the table. I still would like the Brewers to trade Hardy for Burnett.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 10:52 AM CDT   0 recs

Is that really worth while?

Assuming long term McClung is bumped by CC then you are bumping Bush for Burnett. Obviously that is an upgrade but at least for this year Hardy is an upgrade over Escobar. Hardy leads the team in OBP and the team desperately needs OBP in front of Braun, Fielder, and Hart.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As long as we're loading our guns for bear this season

I figure we might as well load them for short-faced bear.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I like that trade talk

However, lets wait until the deadline for this one when JJ will be back to his normal self.

by brewfan2 on Jul 8, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Speaking of the Pirates here is a gem from Frank Coonelly
“While the recent 2-4 road trip was certainly disappointing, the organization has not shifted its focus from attempting to put this club in the best position to win every night that it takes the field,” Coonelly said. “We have played well at home and get two-fifths of our starting rotation back from the disabled list.”

Maybe this is just front office talk but how much value is their march to .500 really worth? When the crew made it to .500 a few years back I was more disappointing they didn’t make the playoffs than they made it to .500. Right now the Pirates have no shot at contending and almost certainly no shot at contending next year either. They need to build for 2010 or so because if they don’t a team like the Reds could easily pass them by and they won’t even have a window of success this next cycle. So if I am the Pirates GM I am trading everyone worth anything on my roster. Wilson? Sold. Bay? Sold. Nady? Sold. Capps? Sold. Combine a couple of these guys in a package deal and you should be able to get some good young talent back that might be ready in a few years. Who cares if your AAA shortstop sucks and is a big downgrade from Wilson? In fact, that is going to improve your draft standing.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's typical of organizations like that

Look at the A’s, who sold off a bunch of stuff this offseason and would give away everything at the deadline if they are further behind. That’s the way you have to build. GMs of teams like the Pirates just don’t understand. Kinda reminds me of the Bucks the past two years- you can’t try to contend a little bit and rebuild at the same time. You either go for it or you don’t.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought the new Pirate regime knew this

I guess maybe not. Though again maybe this is just front office speak.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i think, so far, we can say the new pirates regime knows this, and that it is, indeed, front office speak. if you’ve just told the dodgers that they are not offering enough for the pirates to pack it in this season, it only helps trade negotiations to say it to the fans as well.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 11:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There's also the possibility that...

the “drive for 75” approach to roster development was always driven more by the ownership than by Littlefield…I’m sure Huntington et al. know that’s not the way to go, but I wonder how difficult it is to overcome the sheer inertia of an organization that has been handled that way for 10+ years.

by Zeyes on Jul 8, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh

It’s all just blue to me, baby.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Line today

The game opened as Brewers -215 and now has moved to Brewers -235 (or 70% favorites) . ESPN’s accuscore sees it basically the same. I wonder if project-a-tron might make a special appearance tonight?

One last thing. I have seen some scouting reports out there that talk about what a good curve CC has. The problem is Sabathia doesn’t throw a curve but he adds and subtracts from his slider. Should be interesting to see what the announcers say about that tonight.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 10:54 AM CDT   0 recs

CC

Assuming the Cubs and Brewers are in a dead heat at the end of the season, how would you like to see CC Sabathia pitching against the Cubs in the (regular) season-ending series?

Hardy is an offensive mystery. Power hitter? Hits for average? Both? Neither? In tonight’s game, he’ll probably go out and swipe three bases.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jul 8, 2008 11:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

project-a-tron

has the Brewers win probability for tonight at 1000%.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 8, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you watch any of the TV coverage of the game last night?

They had t-shirts with that all over the place.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't catch that

They linked to the mlb.com article about Hart being the leading NL vote-getter, and there was no picture, so I assumed they came up with it. Thanks.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

by the way...

if anybody gets an extra I HART New York t-shirt in a medium (or can get one), I want it. I will happily reimburse!

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 8, 2008 11:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Are they even for sale? I’ll look at the Keg tonight. They are also supposed to be getting Brayan Ts in, they have some, but they look cheap. Talking to the guy they said they have a bunch of one offs, but they look shotty.

by SgtClueLs on Jul 8, 2008 12:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s also subliminally involved with the design of this site.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah yeah

and the giant banner, I get it. Laugh it up, fuzzball.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

More links

Victor Wang at the Hardball Times examines the Sabathia trade, coming up with a figure of +2.2 wins for the Brewers. He also looks at the monetary value of each player involved, the extra wins Sabathia will provide, plus the value of the Brewers’ increased playoff odds, and concludes that the trade was a dead heat.

Also at THT, our own dixieflatline breaks down Carlos Marmol, sadly not literally, though Lou Piniella seems to be doing a fine job of that himself.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 12:19 PM CDT   0 recs

cool article from wang. i’ll just go ahead and break from my normal posting patterns and point out some disagreements…

1) the upgrade from the back of the bullpen (wang uses Choate(?)) to McClung can’t possibly be worth 0.6 wins, i mean it could end up being worth that, but 0.6 wins is not a median projection. I mean you’re talking about, what, maybe at the very high end 40 innnings of low, low leverage pitching… a safer wager would be 0.0 wins, i’m comfortable calling it 0.25.

2) he’s got the odds of the brewers reaching the postseason going from 23% (?!) to 51%, pecota adjusted post season odds, as dixieflatline points out, already has them at 55%, i feel much more comfortable with a 10% bump. Using the 35 million dollar figure (love that, and would love to see the BP article about this), that makes the increased playoff odds worth 3.5 million, not the 9.8 that wang has.

3) he’s got LaPorta’s value at 23.5 million, and he uses a pretty cool method to determine that value, see the linked article. the problem with the method, however, is that it averages a group of prospects together, so you’re using guys who are not very projectable (like high school pitchers) as part of your method to evaluate one of the most projectable commodities, a college slugger with a pretty good walk rate. a better method would actually create a projection for laporta. using jeff’s minor league equivalency calculator we’d get an ML equivalent line based on LaPorta’s AA season of .236/.330/.448. Well, that’s about average for a left fielder. That makes him 2 wins above replacement, which is worth about 9 million dollars a year, or 54 million dollars (unadjusted) over 6 cost controlled years. With a salary of about 16.2 million dollars, that give LaPorta a surplus value of 38.2 million dollars. (Now, the scary part is, there is a tiny chance- the allstar factor- that he hits at the majors the way he has hit in AA, and if that were the case his surplus value would be about 114 million dollars. but try not to imagine that scenario.)

So, using Wang’s surplus value method and adjusting the postseason odds, and the likelihood of success for LaPorta, you can come up with a defensible position that the indians win the deal by 20+ million dollars (a huge win). Most of this difference, i believe, comes in from Wang’s underestimation of his surplus value. He has him projected as a below average ML player.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 1:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I don't know why he used Choate

And, fatefully, the reason Choate hasn’t pitched for the Brewers this year is that be broke his hand on LaPorta’s helmet in spring training.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

speaking of whom

Choate’s rehab assignment eligibility should be running out in a little over a week. I wonder what they’re going to do with him.

by Zeyes on Jul 8, 2008 1:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's got a split contract

So they could just keep him in the minors.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jul 8, 2008 10:41 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

But isn't he on the major league DL?

Though I see now that brewerfan.net says he still has an option left…I’d figured he would have to be passed through waivers first, but perhaps not.

by Zeyes on Jul 9, 2008 6:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and to follow up again

Looks like the brewerfan.net list is wrong; Choate’s three options were used in 2002-04 already. So he’ll likely have to be placed on waivers next week if he isn’t put on the ML roster.

by Zeyes on Jul 9, 2008 6:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder if anyone would claim him anyway

A rehabbing lefty that no one was in a hurry to get last offseason? I don’t know if that’d be a hot commodity on the market anyway.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jul 9, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh, that might be great

but if it is baseball between the numbers i might have that one. i’ll double check, can i send you an e-mail otherwise? thanks very much for the offer.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, they expanded on it in the 2008 annual too

I can scan both of those.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Once you get into considering the "All-Star factor" though

...you have to also consider the value of the draft picks the Brewers will get for Sabathia, and the fact that the extra made-the-playoffs booty will allow the Brewers to perhaps draft a Boras client falling because of bonus demands, etc, etc.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

awesome article from josh

also, and this gets pretty geeky, i’d like to say, incredible work on the wear pattern chart. the quality of your data display, and your data density have skyrocketted since you started creating these pitch f/x charts.

you’ve got for each pitch, vertical, and horizontal movement, speed, their mean, std, by game, over time. plotted together you are also showing correlation between each of these variables, not only that you can see usage in the chart, gaps for days off, concentrated points for consecutive use.

by my count that is 16+ variables in the chart. phenomenal.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jul 8, 2008 1:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, Josh has been doing great work, and it really needs to get recognized more

I just wanted to point out that I added links to his player cards for each of our pitchers (“PITCHf/x”) on the left sidebar.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for doing that BK

Over the ASB I am going to do some hand editing to the pitch types so things should be much clearer for a couple of the Brewer pitchers.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

From Josh's article:
So if you have a shaky reliever like Marmol, the time to use him is in high leverage situations when putting up a zero makes a huge difference but the difference between giving up one and say three runs is small.

Take note, Ned!

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah exactly

I think this is really something that managers mess up. If you have a guy who when he is on is lights out but when he is bad is going to explode you can’t let the explosions affect your confidence in him. Putting him a three run game in the 7th is just asking for trouble. Turnbow certainly qualifies if he ever comes back. If he is to be used at all then the semi-safe games aren’t the right situation.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 2:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am glad you liked it Jacob

Sometimes it is hard for me to determine when an article hits and when it misses. I thought writing about a guy from a big market who has been in the news recently would generate a ton of response and comments but so far it hasn’t. I am trying to slip in new metrics like wear pattern here, release point variation in the Hughes’ piece, and fastball speed variation in the Geinke piece to these player profiles to keep the articles from being too dense. I think that was an issue before. I really think that wear pattern could be a incredibly useful tool but maybe I am overestimating it.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That article really is impressive

That you can conclude the specific day that the Cubs told him to tweak his arm slot, and show the results of that change through data, is incredible. Stuff like that is a gold mine for MLB people or advance scouts, if they can’t figure out how to analyze the data themselves.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 3:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

While I would like to think so I don't get the impression they think so

So I guess I am just happy if yo guys like the stuff.

Visit my baseball blog ...or else!

by dixieflatline on Jul 8, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One more article

Jeff Passan has a nice piece on Attanasio’s, Melvin’s, and Yost’s reactions to the deal.

It includes this picture:

Does he ever not smile?

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoops, this picture

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DON'T TALK TO SUPPAN TOO MUCH!

Sheets is the guy you want to be getting the advice from, CC.

And neck size to baby eating ratio.

by jihad on Jul 8, 2008 2:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ha

giving advice and implementing are two very different things. I get the sense that if Mike Maddux had been a starter, he would’ve been rather Suppan-like.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 8, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Joe Sheehan at BP also reviewed the trade

He comes down on the side of the Brewers:

On July 31, I might argue that two months of CC Sabathia for six years of Matt LaPorta and some throw-ins is what the market priced him at. The same deal on July 7 means that not enough options were explored. This wasn’t a Godfather offer, and it’s one that absolutely would have been there three weeks from now. Mark Shapiro simply dealt Sabathia too soon, without letting the desperation of his fellow GMs drive up the price and get him a better deal.
The thing is, I’m pretty sure Melvin said that the deal was only this sweet because of the timing, and that if they had to wait until after the ASB to get CC, the price would go down, so it seems like Sheehan doesn’t really have an accurate idea of the market price of Sabathia.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sheehan is just plain wrong.

Every year, pundits overestimate the value of rentals, as Rosenthal and others spread rumors about Tejada for Brandon Wood and Nick Adenhart, or whatever.

This is as big a prospect package for a three-month rental that any GM is ever going to get.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 8, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Four months, dude

You forgot about October!

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 2:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

for us, yes

if the Dodgers had traded for him, it would’ve been three months :).

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 8, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, that was a fun ride

Branyan before June 27th, 286/371/740
Branyan since June 27th, 136/240/273

It appears everyone remembered how to get Branyan out. How long is Branyan’s hand considered hot because of one month, especially when Bill E’s line against RHP is 153/213/294?

Unrelated, here is JJ’s before/after June 27th:
Before June 27th, 256/331/378
Since June 27th, 500/540/1087

by Getting Yosted on Jul 8, 2008 1:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Harold Reynolds' take on CC

He looks at his early season struggles with location, and how he has improved since then.

link

by oconnobe on Jul 8, 2008 3:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Bad day afield for the AZL Brewers. Carlos George made his 12th error and Shawn Zarraga allowed 6 SB.

He's extremely quick and good.

by battlekow on Jul 8, 2008 5:24 PM CDT   0 recs

I never noticed it until now but...

the MiLB.com URL scheme uses “brrrok” as the rookie Brewers’ team abbreviation…that could serve as a pretty good descriptor of their play, too, on most days. :-/

by Zeyes on Jul 8, 2008 6:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs