Brewer FAs after 2008
All this talk about trading JJ got me wondering: who is going to be here in 2009? Let's go to Cot's and Rotoworld for players whose contracts end after this season:
- Ben Sheets (2008: $11 mil)
- CC Sabathia (2008: Brewers on the hook for ~$4 mil)
- Eric Gagne (2008: $10 mil)
- Ray Durham (2008: Brewers on the hook for ~$3 mil)
- Mike Cameron (2008: $5 mil; $10 mil club option for 2009)
- Guillermo Mota (2008: $3.2 mil)
- Salomon Torres (2008: $3.2 mil; $3.75 mil club option for 2009)
- Craig Counsell (2008: $2.8 mil; $3.4 mil club option for 2009)
- Brian Shouse (2008: $2 mil)
- Gabe Kapler (2008: $800,000)
- Russell Branyan (2008: $400,000, I guess)
- Joltin' Joe Dillon (2008: $400,000)
- Derrick Turnbow (2008: $3.2 million)
- Chris Capuano (2008: $3.75 million)
- Plus $900,000 we're paying Claudio Vargas to not suck for us.
(I excluded Jason Kendall, whose 2009 contract becomes vested if he catches 6 more games.)
That should be somewhere around $46 million we're purging off the books (excluding Torres, whose option I'd think we'd pick up in a heartbeat). Painfully, we're paying $8.3 million to guys who are currently not on the team. Ouch.
Right now, though, our starting rotation is going to be Gallardo, Parra, Suppan, Bush, and McClung. Fielder needs to be more gentle with Manny Parra --- if Gallardo has any sort of setback, Manny would be our #1 starter next season! Also, we'd have to commit some of the cash to an outfielder to replace Cameron (or Hart, if we move him to centerfield), as well as to make up for the losses of gritty veteran backups, relievers, etc.
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If the rotation going into next year is Gallardo/Bush/Parra/McClung/Suppan I’m going to be one sad panda.
Yeah but
a bullpen for the crew not involving 16 mil to Mota/Turnbow/Gagne is good in my book.
If they take some of that 16 million and the 11 Sheets is making this year and resign Sabathia I’ll be a happy panda with Sabathia/Gallardo/Bush/Parra/Place Holder for Jeffress in 2010. And if they can rid themselves of Jeff Suppan for even a non-prospect I’ll be an ecstatic panda.
by HRF on Aug 7, 2008 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Bullpen
So we’re losing a number of guys from an imperfect bullpen as it is. Does this mean the Crew is going to have to pay inflated salaries to pick up mediocre arms off the free agent market?
Steve
http://nohuddleoffense.blogspot.com
Not so fast
They haven’t proven their veteran mediocrity yet. That’s why we’ll sign Ray King.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Cool then the Brewers will have a guy fatter than me lol
If Loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right
Man now I will have to get on my wifes elliptical machine
I cannot win
If Loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right
Ray King would surely be a cheaper mediocre option than Mota
by juggernaut400 on Aug 7, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind
Resigning Shouse, if he doesn’t retire that is.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Aug 7, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
im not familiar with the Brewers farm system
are there any guys in the minors that would be able to plug those holes? Just taking a quick look at stats I’d be curious to see what Tim Dillard and Joe Bateman can do.
Also, although it still may be a bit of a stretch, looking at those numbers it seems as though Sabathia could possibly be in a Brewers uniform beyond this year. (Heck simply getting Gagne off the books would help quite a bit with that.)
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
A lot of holes but also a lot of chips to play with
I am still in the camp that says they will be a serious player for CC
I do not see Suppan going anywhere I am conflicted on Soup there are times he looks like the guy we though we were getting for that money(like his last two starts) But then he has all those starts in June and all you can think of us he is going to cost us almost 12 million a year for the next two years.
You just have to hope he does not become some sort of mini Zito for the next two years.
If Loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right
I guess
When you sign someone of Suppan’s age and talent to that kind of contract, if he gives you four years of an ERA under 5, you’ve won the bet.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
An ERA around 5 is what an average #4 starter gives you
At least after injuries and such take their toll.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
I wasn’t saying that an ERA of around 5 equals suck, I was asking Jim whether it does. I think the application of the suck tag might have more to do with whether someone is a fan of a player.
As usual your link provides a lot of great information. I think average is not very illuminating though. Without knowing the distribution, average could be bad and put one close to the group of minor league guys who get tryouts (and fail) or appear as injury replacements along with old retreads who are fillers. Mind you I’m not saying that is so, I’m just saying that average isn’t very illuminating.
Neither a fan, or anti-fan
I can’t get worked up over Suppan either way. I think he’s getting more money than he should, but we’re probably better off having him than not.
His career, 2007, and 2008 (thusfar) ERAs are all between 4.6 and 4.7. If he can put up similar numbers for 2009 and 2010, without spending a significant amount of time on the DL…then I think we escaped this signing relatively unscathed. (Like WSB Chris says, we avoid our own mini Zito.)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
You seem obsessed with the word "suck."
I’m not sure why this is.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
ha!
"I wore 37 in Tampa... my brother Marcus wore 37... my brother Sam wore 73... my nieces and nephews wear 37... It's a family thing." McClung
The money’s a sunk cost so you can’t really worry about that, but it depends on who else is around him in the rotation. Having a guy who will pitch all year every year and get you a
whoa it ate half my comments I guess you can't use the less-than symbol
The money’s a sunk cost so you can’t really worry about that, but it depends on who else is around him in the rotation. Having a guy who will pitch all year every year and get you a sub-5 ERA I think you’re in OK shape, whereas if he’s the second or third best guy on the team you’re in deep shit.
I too would love for them to make a big run at CC
I just don’t see it happening. From everything I have heard he is gone at the end of the year and the Crew will take their two draft picks and be happy. We can dream but just don’t be disappointed when he signs somewhere else and don’t necessarily get mad at Doug and the FO. They knew the situation coming in and knew him leaving was the most likely route.
by dixieflatline on Aug 7, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Who else will be available?
Maybe we don’t get CC or Ben but what other pitchers will be free agents that we could make a run at.
Odalis Perez, Julian Tavarez, Steve Trachsel
Oh yeah, and some others, too (scroll down).
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
No wonder Dempster is pitching so well
He’s in a contract year.
"He's been very, very impressive," Yost said. "I mean really impressive. I mean really, really impressive."
by MadJimiBrewha on Aug 7, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
It looks like there are some quasi decent pitchers available this winter.
by Saberilliterate on Aug 7, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
sign Carl Pavano!
"I wore 37 in Tampa... my brother Marcus wore 37... my brother Sam wore 73... my nieces and nephews wear 37... It's a family thing." McClung
Not a starter, but ...
my Sports Illustrated in the mail today lists the Brewers as a possible suitor for K-Rod this winter.
Was that an April Fools' issue?
K-Rod will be looking for something in excess of $70M for 5 years. There’s no way the Brewers would (or should) shell out that kind of money for that length of time for a closer. I like K-Rod, but I think the risk/reward ratio is way too high for a lower-revenue team.
Problem=
The top 10 or so starters will be Type-A free agents and we’d have to give up our first round pick, which would defeat the benefit of having a guy like Sheets that wouldn’t cost us a pick.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
I'm guessing we won't sign a top starter
but it wouldn’t surprise me if we sign somebody that means we lose our first round pick.
After all, we’ll be getting 1st rounders + supp picks for both Sheets and Sabathia, and some other guys will likely be type B’s as well.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Aug 9, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone have any thoughts on Counsell and Durham?
Specifically, does anyone have a guess if they will be type B free agents or not? The Brewers offered Graffy arbitration a while back when he qualified and I wounder if they might do the same with Durham this year. I think they would be happy to loose him and take the picks but if he did take arby then it might not be the end of the world especially is Counsell leaves or retires. Doug seems to like experienced middle infielders as well.
Counsell, I would guess no
He didn’t make it into Type B territory last year based on his 2006 and 2007 stats, and his numbers this year are worse than in 2006, so I don’t think he’ll move up.
Ray Durham was a Type B after last year, but again, his numbers so far in 2008 are way down in terms of home runs and such. Of course, Jeff Keppinger managed to become a Type B guy after last year despite about three months of playing time in two years, so who really knows. I suspect they weight batting average more than power when it comes to middle infielders, so Durham keeping that number near where it was in 2006 should help.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Thanks TheJay
Should be interesting to see what they with their their aging middle infielders in the offseason.
by dixieflatline on Aug 7, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Sabathia
I would love to have Sabathia, but I don’t see how signing him is possible. Assume we clear $46 million off the books. Sabathia is probably going to ask somewhere around $20 million next season, meaning we would be left with $26 million freed up. Salary increases for players we already have signed in 2009 will probably be another $13 million or so (that’s just a rough estimation, but Suppan alone will be making $4.5 million more in 2009, and we have a lot of young players closing in on arbitration who will require raises).
That mean we would have somewhere around $13 million spending money after signing Sabathia to equal this year’s payroll, and this assumes we lose at least ten players who are currently on our major league roster. I just don’t see how we can fill all the holes that will arise next season with in-system players and only $13 million to spend. And even that number, $13 million, assumes an equivalent payroll to this season when the Brewers are currently loosing money on the year. Making it to the playoffs might keep the payroll around $90 million though, or maybe even higher if necessary.
Worst-case scenario, we sign neither Sheets nor Sabathia, it’s not like our rotation will suck. Replacing Sheets with Gallardo and we have a similar rotation to the one we had prior to the Sabathia trade, which was still pretty darn good.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Actually between Suppan and and Fielder...
... I think you’re probably looking at at least 10 million in salary increases. Howard won his arbitration hearing last offseason and ended up with a 10 million dollar salary as a result. I believe Fielder’s arbitration eligible this offseason I don’t see any way he’ll make less than 8 million. If he puts on a huge burst to end the season and tops 40HRs (yes please!) he might even approach Howard’s number, and clearly there’s little or no chance of an extension that might keep the number lower at this point. Even at 8 million, that’s 12.5 million added to the payroll from Fielder and Suppan alone. If they want to target Sabathia they’ll have to hope to cobble together a pen out of Torres, Villy, Riske, McClung, Stetter and a couple of minor leaguers they already control.
But even assuming that inexpensive approach to the pen there probably won’t be enough money left to have a legitimate shot at Sabathia. You can’t count on the notion that they’ll actually replace all the dollars they clear from the payroll. Financially they’re running in the red this year (short of a WS appearance according to Attanasio), so if they clear 46 million with the contracts that are ending, they might only put 36 million back on the payroll with other players, which would still put the payroll at about 80 million. Of he 36 million they might have to play with, 12 million (or more) will be accounted for by Suppan and Fielder. If Counsell’s option is picked up the other holes they’ll have to fill (backup infielder, a 4th OF) which would, at a minimum, cost about 1.5 million with low payroll guys the equivalent of Kapler and Dillon for a total of 5 million to fill out the bench, if the goal is to try to keep enough payroll clear to make a run at CC. Even if you Ignore for a moment the more modest increases for a handful of other players, Fielder, Suppan and the Bench have just eaten up about 17 million of the perhaps 36 million they have to play with, leaving 19 million you can throw at Sabathia for next season, which probably isn’t enough. With the increases that the younger players are likely to get, the amount left over for a potential Sabathia deal is probably closer to 15 or 16 million which isn’t going to be close to what he ends up getting. They’d have a better shot of landing Sheets, but not much.
There may be things I’m missing and my numbers may be off, but the only way we’ve got a shot at Sabathia is if Attanasio breaks his historical trend of tying payroll to revenue and commits to funneling outside cash into the operation for the next several years. I just don’t see that happening.
FDR can suck it. - Jeff Sackmann
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 7, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that you are overvaluing Prince
Howard’s biggest piece of leverage in his arbitration was the NL-MVP award on his wall right next to his ROY trophy. When he went to arbitration he also had already hit 129 HRs AND 356 RBI in 410 games.
Compare to Prince – if Prince hits 14 more HR’s and gets 40 more RBI this season that will give him 40HR and 107 RBI for the season that will put him 120HR and 317 RBI in 509 games (assuming 155 this season) Prince has neither won ROY (placed 7th) or MVP (placed 3rd) Howard also has a career OPS+ of 142 compared to Fielders 132
So Prince will have about 10% less products in 20% more games. 10+20=30 – so Prince should make 30% less than Howard – Assuming he takes it all the way to arbitration and wins. I would expect Prince to make between 6 and 6.5 Million next year.
by Saberilliterate on Aug 8, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
You may be right...
... but you also have to adjust for the 1 year time difference and the average inflation of salaries in MLB. Even if you’re right, a 5% increase in average salary league wide (which I think is well below average over the last several years) would take a 6.5 million outcome up to 6.8 million, while a 10% increase puts it over 7 million. I think the 8 million figure, which accounts for a true value outcome of about 70-75% of Howard’s salary adjusted for the annual increase in league average salary will turn out about right.
FDR can suck it. - Jeff Sackmann
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 8, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
counsell and other holes
i really hope they don’t waste 3.8 million on him. Personally, and i haven’t looked too much at iribarren’s stats, but i think he could do counsell’s job plus OF in a pinch at a relatively similar level. as far as FA i’d like to see them go after, Juan Cruz is one guy who i’ve always liked and could be had at a reasonable price. Rafael Soriano may be able to be had at a discount from injuries, and he’s nasty. Bobby Abreu seems like he could be a good fit if they want to move Corey to center, but he’ll probably be a little expensive. I don’t see too many starters i like…lots of old guys. I think they’ll make a trade for a starter.
People need to stop thinking of Iribarren as a utility infielder
He was a second baseman until this year and would make it as a fifth outfielder who happened to also play second. He can’t play short.
BCB's "very own marginally deserving all-star!"
that did occur to me
that is true, but we’ll see if escobar is ready next year, we may be able to have JJ and escobar split time there, with or both playing 2nd or 3rd on the other day. In any case, shouldnt there be someone out there (pablo ozuna, felipe lopez, willie harris) who can do counsell’s job for much less than 3.8 million?
Jarrod Washburn?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Aug 8, 2008 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't Washburn on contract with the Mariners through 2009?
My proxy server at work blocks Cots Contracts, so I can’t check (dammit!), but I thought that was one of the reasons they were shopping him near the trading deadline—to unload the $$ they would owe him next season.
Duh.
I was skimming, so I missed the context of Wisconsin-native Washburn replacing Counsell. Nevermind.
Do you think
Joe Dillon wakes up in the morning and asks “so what would be easiest today?” I think not.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
True
But getting fired, evicted, and having to live on the street, while admittedly gritty, isn’t for me. Then I wouldn’t be able to watch Extra Innings on my 60” HDTV. If the desire to not be homeless makes me less gritty, so be it. I’ll turn in my Gritty Card and keep the TV. :)
Maybe if the Brewers would stop putting their players up in nice hotels on the road, they’d be even grittier. Though that raises the question as to which is grittier, Motel 6 or homelessness?
Motel 6
If homeless, the players would have that much more incentive to get laid on road trips.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Aug 8, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Sig-worth!
Jeff’s a machine lately, though I would substitute “FDR” for “players” and “at the Yalta conference” for “on road trips.”
FDR can suck it. - Jeff Sackmann
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 8, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Cameron
After looking at Cameron’s numbers, I’m betting we’ll pick up his option in 2009. If we do, that’s a pretty hefty chunk out of our FA spending allowance, though it’s also one less position to fill.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

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