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Friday's Frosty Mug

Some things to read while waiting to see if it's a good mail day.

Is the Brewer front office the only group of people in baseball who don't realize their starting rotation has a depth problem? The team has stated for weeks now that they're not looking to spend big money on a starter, and that's fine, but now Ken Rosenthal reports they're also not interested in offering minor league deals to veteran starters like Mark Redman and Victor Zambrano or reclamation projects like Kris Benson and Jason Jennings. (h/t Al) Their interest in Mark Mulder is described as "lukewarm."

Since 2000, the Brewers have used 8, 13, 13, 12, 12, 8, 12, 8 and 8 starting pitchers, respectively. That's an average of about 10 and a half starting pitchers per season for the past nine seasons. Here's the current depth chart for starting pitchers, as I see it:

1. Yovani Gallardo
2. Manny Parra
3. Dave Bush
4. Jeff Suppan
5. Seth McClung
6. Chris Capuano (after May or so, if all goes well)
7. Mark DiFelice
8. Carlos Villanueva

After eight, it becomes anyone's guess, with names like Tim Dillard, Chris Narveson and Lindsay Gulin coming into play. I'm not sure why the front office seems to be in no hurry to add pitchers to this list.

The Brewers agreed to terms yesterday with seven players on their 40-man roster: Dillard, Mitch Stetter, Alcides Escobar, Mat Gamel, Casey McGehee, Brad Nelson and Angel Salome. In a related note, the Brewers recently sent Salome to the 2009 Rookie Career Development Program, and while he was there he was interviewed for MLB.com.

Speaking of interviews, The Sporting News took a few minutes to catch up with Mark Attanasio for a Q and A. They asked him about (what else?) the salary cap (three times), then they had a brief conversation about the Brewers. (h/t BBTF)

I guess there is one advantage to having a fair number of free swingers on your team: The Brewers were below league average in strikeouts looking in 2008.

On the hot stove:

A's: Signed Russ Springer to a deal reported to be worth more than $3 million.
Braves: The team has reportedly stopped pursuing Adam Dunn and will not offer more than a minor league deal to Andruw Jones.
Cubs: will reportedly trade Rich Hill to the Orioles once Baltimore has cleared some space on their 40-man roster to take him.
Dodgers: Spoke to the agents for both Braden Looper and Randy Wolf yesterday.
Giants: Signed Juan Uribe to a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training.
Mariners: Signed Mike Sweeney to a minor league deal. They may also be considering an 11-man pitching staff.
Marlins: Signed Kiko Calero and Jason Standridge to minor league deals.
Mets: Signed Bobby Kielty, Tony Armas Jr., Matt DeSalvo and Valerio de los Santos to minor league deals.
Orioles: Will not retain Kevin Millar.
Pirates: Signed Paul Maholm to a three-year deal, buying out his three arbitration seasons. The deal also has an option for a fourth year. They're also reportedly ready to sign Eric Hinske.
Red Sox: Jason Varitek, apparently unhappy with the offers he's received as a free agent, is threatening to sit out the 2009 season. (see update)
Reds: May sign Luis Gonzalez to help fill out their bench.
Yankees: We've had several conversations about how this works, but apparently we were all wrong and the Yankees have filled their quota of Type A/B free agents. (see update 2)

UPDATE: ESPN is reporting Varitek has accepted a one-year deal from the Red Sox.

UPDATE 2: Or not. The Yankees can still sign more free agents.

Do you have MLB Network? (I don't.) Are you losing your mind waiting for the first televised spring training games? (I am.) If so, perhaps Caribbean World Series games can help tide you over. The network will have 12 games between February 2 and 7. Odds are my cable company will continue to hold out and I won't see any of them.

Oh, and it appears Rays reliever J.P. Howell can't draw straight lines.

Drink up.

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Whatever

You’re just succumbing to your fate.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 30, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

After eight, it becomes anyone’s guess, with names like Tim Dillard, Chris Narveson and Lindsay Gulin coming into play. I’m not sure why the front office seems to be in no hurry to add pitchers to this list.

I think you have it exactly right. 9. dillard, 10. narveson, 11. gulin.

Are you suggesting redman, zambrano, benson, and jennings are better than that group and should be the AAA starting rotation, at what? roughly 10 times the salary?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Jan 30, 2009 9:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think any of Redman, Zambrano, Benson and Jennings

Have significantly higher upside than Narveson or Gulin, so yes. I’m not suggesting the Brewers should sign all of them, although it would be tempting if they were available. But any of the four could probably be had for $500k or less (perhaps with incentives). To flip your question: Are you really content without adding any additional depth?

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Additionally

Sheets isn’t one of the starting 5. We all know he artificially inflated the number of pitchers used over the last couple years with his annual DL stint. Not saying we will have the same 5 starters healthy all year long, just that there is sort of an addition by subtraction situation going on in terms of injury risk.

by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 30, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really.

Yovani Gallardo and Seth McClung have never completed a full season as a starter. Manny Parra wore out last year, Dave Bush was actually briefly sent to AAA last season due to ineffectiveness and Jeff Suppan has a projected ERA around 5.

If anything, the Brewers project to need more backups, not less.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

However, I think bringing up Gallardo is sort of a toss up at worst. The guy got hurt in freak baseball collision, it’s not like he has a history of injuries and he pitched 180+ innings the year before. McClung is anyone’s guess, although based simply on IP totals he won’t be able to go the whole year as a starter without wearing down. I almost expect a season like Parra’s last year where he wears out toward the end. Assuming Parra wore out due to pitching more than he has in the past, the natural progression of younger pitchers should lead to him being able to at least match last years IP if not exceed them. Bush, I’m not really sure what to expect. He looked good at the end of last year, so maybe he has turned a corner, but I’m not going to count on that. However, the lack of quality arms leads me to believe that even if he has an ineffective spell, he will have to work it out in the Majors without being sent down or taken out of the rotation. And then there is Suppan. I think we all know what he is good for and what we all expect from him. Regardless of what he does in his innings, I still think he is a better bet to pitch more innings than a Sheets could be counted on.

I guess I’m just a little more optimistic about some of the guys we have currently. Yes, I would love to see someone added that bumps Suppan or McClung from the rotation, but I don’t see it happening and I’m quietly confident the guys we have might be able to put together a half-way decent rotation.

by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 30, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gallardo is a perfect example of why you have to have backups, even under perfect conditions.

There was nothing wrong with him last year when one awkward step/collision basically ended his season. That could happen to anyone, virtually anytime, and you’d immediately have to call upon your depth.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

and let’s hope that was enough to pay up the Crews karma so that some freak incident doesn’t happen again.

by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bush hasn't turned a corner.

And he’s not going to. He’ll give you good stretches and bad stretches because he’s just a mediocre pitcher with a competitive streak. I think what he is right now is as good as he’ll ever be.

I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 30, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap.

It’s scares the hell out of me when KL says what I’m thinking. Why? Because when he doesn’t, I can convince myself that I’m wrong and don’t really know what I’m talking about. But when I think it and he agrees, then it’s not only true, it’s obviously true, and we’re screwed.

I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jan 30, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Bush was sent to AAA because Gallardo came off the disabled list (and, well, he was ineffective in April and May, but if Yo hadn’t been hurt he would have never been in the rotation.)

by morineko on Jan 30, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mid-season pickup

My guess would be that this is why the front office has hinted at making a mid-season pitching addition rather than acting now. If we get through the first half healthy, and maybe get surprised by Capuano pitching like a number 2 or 3, then we could either keep the guys we have or add someone that has been pitching well on a non-contender.

If we get through the first half and pitchers are hurt and underperforming, then they can look into trades/free agents.

I do think (knock on wood) that we have a pretty durable front five, considering Gallardo’s injury was a fluky, non-arm related injury last year and Bush, Suppan, and Parra are all extremely durable. McClung and Villanueva have also proven durable in their limited opportunities as a starter.

Just my thoughts. As nice as it would be to pick someone up now, I feel like we are going to wait and take the “Pick guys up as we need it” approach.

by ajoconnor on Jan 30, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Waiting until midseason is a double-edged sword, though.

If you wait until midseason and the team is 35-46 through 81 games, then your chances are already shot.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I had pretty much the same thought the other day and I agree 100% AJ.

I know that most fans are not pleased with the underwhelming offseason so far, and rightly so. I just think that the team is in kind of a “holding pattern” right now, and they don’t really want to change that by throwing a ton of money around that might hurt us down the road. As you mentioned they are totally set up to be able to add on if need be, they just want to see things in motion first and I think I am OK with that now.

I see KL just posted discussing the possibility of being out of it at the mid point. Well, I think they are kind of covered if that situation arrises too; they just become sellers rather than buyers. They have assets that they will be able to deal to somebody and add prospects if we tank. If we underperform I would imagine they’d deal Cameron to the Yanks (or elsewhere), especially if he’s playing well and they’re in the mix. I’m sure someone would be looking for bullpen help, as they always are, and Hoffman would be available. If things got REALLY bad you might even start to hear discussions about Prince or JJ.

With the exception of dealing those last two guys, those might not be huge moves, but they would be moves made with eyes on the future. It really seems like there is a decent little team shaping up for a few years down the road, and I’m kind of excited for that. If I have to suffer for a year or two watching an 80 win team in the meantime, I can handle that. After 2001-2004 I can handle anything……..

It is dangerous for an athlete to believe his own publicity, good or bad - Bob Uecker, 1982.

by Adam P on Jan 30, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do think (knock on wood) that we have a pretty durable front five

First, Gallardo’s career high IP was 188 in 2007. He pitched less than 40 last year. To expect him to get to near 200 is ridiculous, and could set him up for a nice YAE in 2010.

Parra increased his IP by 33 last season, setting him up for increased risk of major arm injuries or a regression in development. (I know he’s 26, and Verducci’s analysis includes up to 25, but I’m sure it can be applied).

Dave Bush is perhaps the only one that fits your durability claim.

Jeff Suppan might get near 200 IP, but only if Macha doesn’t care if he’s giving up runs (unlikely).

And McClung hasn’t pitched 130 innings ever in his career. 160 would be amazing.

So…durable…I’m not sure that’s the case.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So if Parra had pitched 4 innings less he'd be just fine?

Sorry, but applying a general pattern with an arbitrary cutoff to one specific pitcher seems pretty pointless to me. Parra’s at increased risk for injury because a) he’s a pitcher, and b) he’s been somewhat injury-prone in the past already, not because he marginally exceeded Verducci’s handy in/out line.

by Zeyes on Jan 30, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, but you'd be remiss to ignore it

simply, the risk factors a) and b) in your post combined with c) pitching more than 30 innings above career high make 2009 a huge question mark for him.

But, you can be flip if you like, and ignore it.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Adding to above

ignoring the increase in IP (and the way he absolutely blew up down the stretch), past correlative research, and his personal history would be about on par with ignoring the fact that Trevor Hoffman is an extreme fly ball pitcher and moving to a more hitter friendly park.

You can do it if you wan to, but its silly.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You could make this point about any pitcher though

CC’s overuse at the end of last year, any young pitcher that is increasing their workload. Yes, the risk is there, but it is there with just about every young pitcher. How else is a young pitcher suppose to advance his pitch counts?

by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 30, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How else is a young pitcher suppose to advance his pitch counts?

The idea is to try to keep the year-over-year increase under 30. So…that’s how.

CC’s overuse at the end of last year, any young pitcher that is increasing their workload

Definitely apples to oranges there, bud. First, the increase in IP for Sabathia from 2007 to 2008 was 12. The alarming one for Sabathia was 2006-2007—a difference of nearly 49 innings. And he clearly showed the ill-effects by pitching poorly in the post season in 2007. Additionally, Sabathia’s low IP since 2001 was 180.3…in 2001. Now you’re talking about young pitchers going from say, 50 IP (in Parra’s case) in 2002 to 166 IP in 2008, a 116 inning increase. I can’t say what the cause/effect is, but if you look at Parra’s minor league stats, he pitched 50 innings in ’02, and then 139 in ’03. And then…after that 89 inning jump…he followed up that season with 73, 91, 86, and then 133 IP. So, it took him three years to get close to attaining that previous high in IP.

So, while 33 IP increase last season might not be that big of a deal, he certainly ran out of gas, and his command came into question. And he was coming off a 47 IP increase the previous season. Whether it affects him like it seems to have in the past in 2009 remains to be seen. I just think one would want to consider the fact that he’s had a history (both with injuries and with IP), his age, and what happens with those big innings jumps.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, which top prospect do you want to trade?

I would rather sign depth now when we don’t have to give up players.

Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9

by NoahJ on Jan 30, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Relative health ain't it.

Expected health, or “durability”, of the projected starters is NOT the reason the Brewers aren’t signing anybody else. It’s money. Attanasio said as much in the interview KL linked in the Mug. He’s even nervous about the payroll being where it is now ($80-85 MM).

The reason the Brewers are likely to wait until midseason to look into more pitching help is so that they have a better feel for where 2009 revenues will settle in. They’ll see how individual-game ticket sales are going on a day-to-day basis, and have a more confident revenue projection, and decide from there whether it is worth spending money (via trade, likely) to improve the team for late 2009.

Follow the money. It will tell you the answer.

It's called "playing the percentages."

by hilbelink on Jan 30, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Y'know what will screw ticket revenues, though?

Losing. Playing in front of 15,000 fans in September would turn an $80 million payroll into a big financial loser in a hurry.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And if there was money to be spent that would near-guarantee more wins (less losing), I’m sure DM/Attanasio would do it. That’s why they were willing to stretch the payroll for CC. But no FA out there has such certainty, or even close. So they’re going to wait and see how the revenues shake out.

It's called "playing the percentages."

by hilbelink on Jan 30, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How many of those September tickets have been bought already, though?

Only the die-hards might show up if the team’s out of it, but I’d guess there’s plenty of new fans that have September tickets in their trendy season ticket packages.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 30, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, assuming 1 million are sold

And 2 million will be by Opening Day, both of which are relatively safe, then the difference between winning in September and not might be the difference between 25,000 and 40,000 paid attendance at 15 home games.

Also worth noting: Selling tickets is great, but the team only maximizes its revenue if those fans show up, pay for parking, eat and drink, and stop by the souvenir stand. If the team underperforms and fans with those tickets don’t show up, all of that extra revenue is gone and all you have to show for it is the face value on the ticket.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And there’s also some huge not being as good situation going in terms of losing a frontline starting pitcher.

by HRF on Jan 30, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with jacob here.

What, exactly, do Benson et al. actually bring to the table other than a more recognizable name? I don’t really buy the “significantly higher upside” argument at the current point in their respective careers. Anyway, I dare say almost any team’s #9+ starters are bound to be utterly non-dependable entities, whether they’re the resurrected corpses of actual former major leaguers, or just minor league retreads.

Asking for more depth is fine, but complaining that they’re not going in that specific direction in acquiring it seems a bit misguided. Narveson didn’t exactly set Nashville on fire last season, but I’d rather they look for guys like that for insurance. And if the Crew really needs significant time from their #9 starter, the season is probably toast anyway and you might as well see if any of your prospects can cut it already.

BTW, I haven’t really kept up I guess…was Sam Narron a minor league FA or is he still in the Brewers system?

by Zeyes on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Narron is still in the system; he’s got a non-roster invitation to spring training.

by morineko on Jan 30, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

Benson wouldn’t be a #9, he’d be somewhere around #6 or 7, with a chance to compete for more and possibly give Seth McClung and Carlos Villanueva an opportunity to spend an entire season in the bullpen.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would he automatically be a #6 or #7?

Because he’s been in the majors before? You could just as easily skip McClung or Villanueva by using Narveson or Gulin. I doubt whatever guys like Benson or Mike Redman have left in the tank is much better.

In an unrelated note: I still like that Mike Redman was named to the All-Star team with a 5.27 ERA. Yay equal representation.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 30, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's why Benson jumped some guys, for me.

He jumps Villanueva, because everyone seems to agree Villy’s long term role is in the bullpen, so why not keep him there? Ditto for Tim Dillard.
He jumps Narveson, Narron and Gulin because none of them have ever been solid big league performers, and none of them were even very good as AAA performers in 2008.

So, if he’s behind Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, McClung, Capuano and DiFelice, he’s #8. If you want McClung in the bullpen too, he’s #7.

This is the debatable part, but it’s my opinion that Benson (or Victor Zambrano, Mark Redman and maybe Jason Jennings) has a higher 2009 upside than Narveson, Narron and Gulin. As such, the team would be better off signing him on the cheap and stashing him in AAA than taking the risk one of those guys ends up making starts in Milwaukee.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wrote an entire article about Redman

(can’t believe I’m correcting you on something like this, but it’s Mark, not Mike)

…and the odd thing is, he deserved to be his team’s representative (if not a bona fide all-star) in 2002 with the Tigers. Really solid first half. 3.65 ERA in 120 IP — horrible peripherals that came back to haunt him in the second half, but great results nonetheless.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 30, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

D'oh

I always mess up his first name. Now I suppose you’ll tell me there’s never been a player named Tark Redman.

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 30, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like a bad chewing tobacco.

"You have no honor!" - McClung to Fukudome

by zsxander567 on Jan 30, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Varitek

The guy put up a .220/.313/.359 line last year and is a 37 year old catcher. I think most teams will hope the door doesn’t hit him on the way out. (Yes, I am aware that basically makes him a 2 years older version of Jason Kendall)

by kingcharlesxii on Jan 30, 2009 10:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How does threatening to sit out make it more likely to get an 'acceptable' offer

Act now! This washed-up catcher is going fast! Wouldn’t making less than you want be better than $0? Gotta love it.

by John Brew on Jan 30, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Varitek has lost his mind

5 million an unacceptable offer? Welcome to retirement.

by Braunstalker on Jan 30, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But he played for the Red Sox!!!!!!!!!!!!

by HRF on Jan 30, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny

You sent me scrambling to figure out the reference and I found this article showing how close Veritek is to Zaun, concluding Veritek is really worth ~$1.5M.

by John Brew on Jan 30, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kendall is more useful

Or at least he was in 2008. Varitek is toastola.

Sox fans are freaking out about “OMG no catcher!” but Josh Bard and George Kottaras or Dusty Brown have a good chance of being better than Varitek and Cash were last year. I have my own worries about Kottaras and defense but he does catch knuckleball pitchers, apparently….

by morineko on Jan 30, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

8-12 mill

it looks like. The other players must have really liked him. Must be nice to be able to flat out waste money to please crazed fans and team moral.

by Braunstalker on Jan 30, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The mid season pickup

is going to cost prospects and money, while the right now pick-up will cost only money. And if you sign an almost washed-up guy and he does better than expected but the team struggles, you can them spin AWUG off for prospects so the cost is money minus prospects.

So I’m not sure what the benefit is to waiting.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 11:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Revenue certainty.

After some more time passes, they’ll have a more confident revenue projection for 2009, and will feel more confident in a decision to spend more, if DM thinks it necessary to improve the team.

Attanasio is a businessman first; he’s looking at the cost/benefit analysis, and the income statement. He wants a positive bottom line.

It's called "playing the percentages."

by hilbelink on Jan 30, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Then he isn't a good businessman

Sports franchises don’t maximize value by being cash-flow positive. You maximize value by consistently performing well on the field to max out butts in the seats and eyeballs on the TV. You manage year-to-year to come close to breakeven, but that isn’t the primary goal. The worst thing you can do with a fan base is yo-yo your product from good to bad to good to bad, especially when you are in the middle of your competitive window.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He may not be “good” at owning a sports franchise, by the standards you’ve drawn, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good businessman.

In the real world, businesses grow by maximizing profits. Period. If you aren’t out to maximize profits, you aren’t running a business, but a charity or a hobby. Sports franchises typically do that by having consistent fan following as you’ve outlined, but the consistent following is a means to the profit motive.

I’m sure MA’s learning the differences between a sports franchise and a “real-world” business, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t — or shouldn’t be — focused on the bottom line. And it is difficult to have a positive bottom line without a solid top line (revenue). And he’s nervous about revenues because he isn’t sure how much money Joe Six-Pack and Sally Sob-Story will have for Brewers tickets this year.

It's called "playing the percentages."

by hilbelink on Jan 30, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not true.

A company’s long-term goal is to maximize revenue, but increasing the value of the company certainly plays a part in that. Winning and attracting fans is the single biggest aspect of increasing the value of the team.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We're not disagreeing.

What you wrote is consistent with my second paragraph above. Not sure what you objected to.

It's called "playing the percentages."

by hilbelink on Jan 30, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um, no

A business exists to maximize shareholder value. Profit maximization is a tool that can be used to increase shareholder value and can provide immediate benefits to the shareholder but a business that is strictly trying to maximize profit is a business that will fail.

What you are really wanting to say is a business wants to maximize marginal profit, which is a different animal all together but still not what a business exists to do. You can run a slight loss to increase your market share, and the value of the increased market share will more than compensate you for the lower profit.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you want to maximize shareholder value?

To maximize your profit. There are plenty businesses that are not public. Your main goal (profit) does not change (to shareholders) when you go public

by tcyoung on Jan 30, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How rich are the Google guys?

Did they get rich from their yearly profit, or from tapping into the value of the firm? How did Bill Gates get rich? Or Mark A his own self. Did he get rich from the yearly profitability of his money management business, or did his fortune come from tapping into the value of his firm (which was based on assets under management and nobody gave a sh!t how much money the firm itself made).

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but...

how about a blue chip company like GE, or IBM

Generally, if you increase your gross profit, you’re going to end with a higher net income.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Explain a stock buyback then

Why would GE, IBM or any other firm willingly buy back stock and lower their profit if a firms only reason for being was to increase profit? Is GE a charity or hobby? Or perhaps the premise of profit maximization uber alles is wrong.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stock is sold to raise capital

so that your company can ‘do more.’

I’m sure every company would prefer to be private if they could somehow match the amount of capital they receive via stock ownership.

So, when a company can afford to raise that capital internally, they can buy back shares. The less ‘outsiders’ that have a say in how you run your business, the better.

And no. Unless explicitly stated, any for-profit company is an unintentionally charitable.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He perhaps meant 'stakeholder'

In business we refer to ‘stakeholders’ as anyone who has a vested interest in seeing the company succeed, generally through increased profits. Which typically happens via an increase in revenue, as well as minimizing expenses while maximizing productivity. It should be noted, however, that larger expenses and worse productivity can be ‘hidden’ and to some extent ‘cured’ by greater revenues.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A stakeholder wants to see expenses rise as high as possible

They have no monetary investment, and every dime they get in their status as a stakeholder(as opposed to employee, vendor etc) is pure rent.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?

I can’t make any sense of what you’ve just said.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I've got my degree already

and am currently amongst the taxpaying masses in the workforce.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But thanks for being a sarcastic arse

I’m not sure why you think its appropriate or warranted. But to each his own.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was sarcastic

If I was being an a$$ I would have inquired how you were enjoying community college.

We shall agree to disagree and move on to how much Jeff Suppan sucks.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, I think I might understand

You don’t understand what a stakeholder is. I’m a stakeholder in my company. Because I do better as the company does better. No, I don’t want expenses to rise. Even though I haven’t invested my personal capital into the company, if the company does poorly, my job could be on the line. I need to monitor expenses, and minimizes costs as efficiently as possible.

by Charlie Marlow on Jan 30, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Post updated

Jason Varitek has reportedly agreed to a deal with the Red Sox.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 1:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Then updated again.

The Yankees can still sign more free agents after all.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 30, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

F@%$ing Badger Blogger

steering our intrepid reporter with all that access wrong again. How hard is it? Your job is to understand the intricacies of a sport and its rules and provide insight to the casual reader and fan, and even if you can’t understand them you have the ability to call up the GM of the local team and ask to speak to their authority on all things CBA related and get the story right.

Direct deposit must have solved a host of issues for Tom, beginning with no longer having to look his employer in the eye when they give him a pay check.

by Getting Yosted on Jan 30, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, good, for certain values of good

Having Tek on the market next year may have been too much for Doug Melvin to resist.

Unfortunately this means another year with the black hole with the C on his uniform behind home plate for the Sox.

by morineko on Jan 30, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just to note

I wasn’t planning on posting a projection thread today anyway, just continue to work on the SP and RP, please. I wanted to put up a story just saying that, but some unfortunate circumstances have prevented me from doing so. I will later.

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Jan 30, 2009 3:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Some ex-Ranger is bound to be waived eventually

Boom! Instant cast-off depth for $1!

Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.

by TheJay on Jan 30, 2009 5:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he's Canadian?

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Jan 30, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Possible, but I just got a better idea

One of these days, when Doug goes into his office, trudging through the snow in the bitter cold, he’ll yearn for the days when he worked in Texas, where it was 70 and sunny in February. He’ll think, “Oh, if only I were in Dallas. [lightbulb flashes on] …Oh, Dallas! Odalis! I knew we needed another starter!”

Ok, I admit, “better” is stretching it.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 30, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 31, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what that means

but it doesn’t look very nice.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 31, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get what Crazy Harry has to do with this.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 31, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

With that said, he scared the crap out of me as a kid.

I used to have nightmares where he detonated things in my room.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 31, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But did he detonate indisputables?

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Jan 31, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope, only Hernan does that.

And now I’m going to start calling him Crazy Hernan the Detonator.

He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.

by KLSnow on Jan 31, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish Jeff Suppan was a current Ranger.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Jan 31, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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