Ben Sheets and the New York Yankees
Not that anyone needs a reason to hate the Yankees, mind you, but the possibility is there for New York to make our lives much worse.
It looks like that Andy Pettitte has rejected the Yankees' offer to bring him back into the fold, turning down a one-year, $10 million offer. Why do we care? Because, one presumes, if Pettitte and the Yankees don't come to terms, then the Yankees are back in the mix to acquire a front-line pitcher. Right now, only Derek Lowe and Ben Sheets are left on the market as freely available #1 pitchers (apologies to Oliver Perez).
Of those two, I'd assume the Yankees would be more interested in Sheets, as he would presumably be cheaper than Lowe by far. Plus, it was only a few weeks ago that the Yankees were rumored to be close to offering Sheets a two-year deal for $30 million. Given a cooling market, it looks like Sheets could be had for significantly less.
If you think we were shafted by getting a second rounder for CC Sabathia, imagine getting a fourth round pick for Sheets. (AJ Burnett ranked higher than Sheets, so the Blue Jays would get the Yankees' third round pick.)
What's interesting is that the more Type A free agents the Yankees sign in one offseason, the cheaper it is for them. We know that a team can sign up to nine Type A/Type B free agents, and for each Type A signing, they lose their top available draft pick (excluding the 1st round pick they might get for not signing their 2008 1st round draft pick). Yankees sign the top FA available? They lose their first round pick. They sign the top two FAs available? They lose their 1st and 2nd round picks (which is why we really really didn't want the Yankees to sign Teixeira, as it significantly lessens our compensation for CC). If the Yankees signed 9 Type A free agents, then one team would get the Yankees' 9th round draft pick in compensation for losing one of their best players. Although it's not an exact comparison, it vaguely feels like trading a player like Sheets to the Yankees for their ninth-round pick, when a trade with any other team would net their first- or second-round pick.
Of course, to be fair, we would also get a supplemental pick between the first and second rounds---a benefit that gets diluted when all of the Type A free agents sign and our supplemental pick gets pushed back in the list. Also, to be fair, it's not that the Yankees are gaming the system, really --- they're certainly playing within the rules. It's just the the rules weren't made with the Yankees' enormous payroll in mind, and your Milwaukee Brewers may end up paying the price.
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I'm still not sure about the free agent limit
I’m pretty sure they can only sign 5 overall, and they have 4. I know they have one more spot left, but I think that is it.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
This is what Boston.com reported
1. Teams can sign as many as nine Type A or Type B free agents, according to Major League Baseball spokesman Pat Courtney
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm pretty sure they are wrong
Check this discussion. TheJay and I came to the conclusion that each team can sign 3 A and B free agents, unless they’ve lost more than that— then they can fill as many spots as they lost. The Yankees had Abreu, Pettite, Marte, Giambi, and Rodriguez, and they re-signed Marte and got 3 others. If they re-sign Pettite, I believe they are done. If they don’t, they can sign Sheets.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
Come to think of it
This “Pat Courtney” person looked a lot like Brian Cashman wearing a Groucho Marx mask.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
It also depends on how many they lose to free agency.
So when you look at the A & B players that they lost, they are really just replacing their loses and not piling on
by Saberilliterate on Jan 6, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm
Do you mean from an MLB-rules sense? (Like, the number of Type A/B free agents you can sign is impacted by the number that you lose?) Or just from the Yankees’ team perspective?
I dunno - when you sign the top two free agents out there, plus another Type A, and are looking for more, I don’t think you can avoid “piling on.”
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I remember reading here @ BCB about the limit of type A/B’s that can be signed relative to the number lost. Here is another source that I found on it…
Since 93 Type A or B free agents filed for free agency this winter, the per-club quota this offseason is eight. However, each team may sign as many Type A or B free agents as it loses in any particular winter, even if those signings would put it over the quota for that winter.
From a 2006 Keith Law article
I don’t know how many they lost, but they can replace all of them plus some…
by Saberilliterate on Jan 6, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Keep in mind
I’m far from an expert on this, but I think this is accurate. If someone with actual, you know, knowledge on this stuff sees something that needs correction, by all means, let me know.
I’m curious to see where the Yankees’ “off-limits” first round pick falls in relation to the Brewers’ first round pick. It’s possible that after all this, the Yankees get to pick before the Brewers in the first round as well.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm not an expert
But I do read them sometimes.
Teams can sign nine free agents, at least according to Nick Cafardo.
I don't specifically articulate my motives, because that wouldn't travel as well as a boo does.
So they can sign 9 plus the ones that they lost – 11 or 12 total…
by Saberilliterate on Jan 6, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I believe it's a whichever number is higher thing
So if they lost 22 players to free agency, they would be able to sign 22.
If they lost 3 players this year, they get to sign 9.
Over at the 4 letter network
They are saying the Yankees are trying to decide whether they should up their offer to Pettite, or just go with Phil Hughes or other youngsters in their system.
Hughes/Kennedy
is actually a good reason for them to opt for Sheets over Lowe.
Lowe = healthier
Sheets = better
If you’re the Mets, go with Lowe — you need the innings, because if a starter gets hurt, hello Nelson Figueroa!
If you’re the Yankees, go with Sheets — between Ben and Hughes, you have a pretty good shot of getting 200 sub-4.00 innings — maybe even better. You just don’t know how many you’re getting from either pitcher.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Then why does Pettitte matter?
He hasn’t thrown an under 4 ERA in 3 years, and at 36 the odds are against him doing so again. I guess I don’t see the pressing need for the Yankees to take on Sheets as their #4 or #5 starter. Pettitte is kinda in the limbo that Vargas was in with the Brewers, you question what results you will get out of him but he provides valuable depth so you are tempted to keep him in case the young guys falter. But IMO you don’t bring in guys to block your young arms.
by Getting Yosted on Jan 6, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
Pettitte would seem to be an alternative to a Sheets/Hughes/whatever go-for-broke risk.
He would also probably be cheaper — the Yanks deal on the table was for $10MM.
The Yankees alternatives were:
Pettitte — cheaper (if he took the offer), knows the division/ny media, solid innings eater
Sheets/Huges — more expensive (probably), but better results, if higher risk
Your opinion that you don’t block young arms may be correct in theory, but it’s not generally the way the Yanks do business. Especially the year after missing the playoffs, with lots of money to throw around, with a new stadium opening. Anyway, they might be figuring that with Burnett in the rotation, their young arms will have plenty of chances…if their young arms are healthy themselves.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jan 6, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
If this situation actually presents itself
I might throw-up a little in my mouth. Could you imagine how upset the entire Brewers nation would be.
I wonder if Melvin would feel the need to try and best their offer in an effort to avoid getting a 4th rounder and hoping for a 1st rounder when his next contract expires. Maybe offer him a 1 year deal at a higher per year value with the thinking that the market might be more friendly for him next year. I guess it depends on how much he values that 1st round pick he expects to receive for Sheets. I’m thinking based on the comments he made after the Tex signing is that he values it pretty highly.
One other thought if this actually happens
We should probably get on the phone with the BoSox, Jays, and Rays about trading Cameron and/or Prince. Anything that will say F You Yankees and help to improve their chances of failing is A OK in my book.
by MadJimiBrewha on Jan 6, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
A report came out about a month ago
saying that the Yankees didn’t want Sheets anymore, and they were going to pursue Pettitte. Back then I was saying that I thought the report was stating this:
The Yankees would rather have Pettitte than Sheets. After Pettitte says no, they’ll turn back to Sheets.
We’ll see.
How about Melvin
makes a play for Sheets and Pettite?
Lordz Of Vengeance....If I'm not drunk, I'm at work.
I am also pro-Rodgers.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jan 6, 2009 6:23 PM CST reply actions
Sheet he's a Yankee
Brewer fans should have seen it coming last July. When Ben Sheets struck out BOTH Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz (in successive at bats!) in the All Star game, his fate was sealed as a Yankee starter. If you can take down the 2 biggest Red Sox threats, on national TV while the Steinbrenners are watching…. what better audition can a pitcher have? All this recent Andy Petitte posturing is just for public consumption, designed to make a declining Petitte look greedy and an enemy of the Yankee State. This recent turn of events has (magically ?) created the Sheets opening I’ve always believed would be his to take, at least soince the All Star game. I know how the Yankee Management works….I’ve been following them for years.
First the Yanks will wait until Lowe signs with the Mets and then Andy will re-unite with Torre in LA, and then….. Sheets becomes the Yanks fifth starter. What’s Cashman supposed to do? Despite his injuries, Cash will take Sheets on his All Star performance alone, as he did when he signed Pavano on his World Series performance against the Yankees. Sheets will start 2 or 3 games in April and then hit the DL, just in time for Hughes’ re-emergence as the Yankee Wonderboy.
Rules weren't made with the Yankees in mind...?
What are you smokin dude? These salary rules were made to pick the Yankee pockets and re-distribute some of their money to low life teams like the Brewers and Royals. Just last month the Yanks had to pony up some $ 27million in salary cap tax to be divvied up by all the cheapo clubs. And what do these leetches do with the Yankee dollars?… spend it on players? NOPE. They put it in their pockets and while it accrues interest, they trot out minor league teams with no hope. And then they have some hired dolt, like you?, crying the blues about how unfair life is with the Yankees in the room….
I give the Yankees all the credit in the world, they make a lot of money, they spend a lot on player salaries, they put out a great product and they sell a lot of tickets. And, by the way, they win Championships… 27 by my last count…And this year they are actually under budget having $ 89 million coming off last years payroll, and only adding back, so far, 61 mill. give or take. So by my math, the Yanks can go out and sign Manny and still be UNDER BUDGET! How great would that be? And what the heck, sign up Ben Sheets too, which would put them 10-15mill over last year…
Payroll Deletions..
Giambi $ 21 M, Mussina $ 16 Mill, Petitte $ 16 M., Pavano $ 10 Million, Abreau $ 16M, Betemit, Hawkins, Ensberg and Farnsworth(less)… add em up and your at $ 89 Million. After Buyout Options paid to Giambi and Pavano, it nets out to $ 82 Million of money coming off the Yankee 2008 Payroll. Now… add in Teixera + Sabathia + Burnett and your at 62-63 million going into 2009… which when compared the the 2008 payroll leaves you UNDER by about $ 20 Million. So, here’s the big scoop… Sheets @ $ 12 Million, 2 year deal with an team option on the third. The other $ 8 Million will be pocket change for Cash when the trading deadline pops up, or when the failing economy forces teams like the Brewers and the Royals to hold a tag sale on players they can no longer afford to pay… And all this gets done before Cash gets the ok from George’s boys to expand on last year’s payroll total by…, say.. 10%…
Maybe instead of bashing the Yankees for their success and their ability to satisfy their growing fan base, you should turn your rage at the Brewer management and insist that they copy the Yankee model… start a TV network, sell subscriptions to it through local Cable providers, win a couple dozen championships, and oh yeah.. gets some exposure in the red hot Japanese Baseball market…wouldn’t hurt.
Yankees' Model
Yankees’ Model = Be Biggest Media Market in US
Congrats you have your own TV station. Not everyone else can have that luxury.
Hurray, for you. Tough to take you seriously when you lump the Brewers in with the Royals. Top of the head figures, but I think the Royals ended the year around 55-58 mil for payroll where the Brewers were over 80 mil with the addition of CC. I know that doesn’t sound big to Mr. Big Market, but that’s pretty good for the Brewers.
Typical East Coast. Where bigger, so we deserve to be better. Enjoy paying half a million for a house that would cost 100 thousand out here.
Do what is right even when everyone knows it is coming. It is still right.
Typical East Coast....
We demand value for our dollars, just the way you mid-westerners do. It is not a regional affectation.
We Yankees fans do demand alot from Yankee Ownership and Brian Cashman in particular. And they have responded well, missing the playoffs just once in the last 12 years .
What boggles my mind is how the other MLB fans, like you, have the nerve to watch their teams pick the Yankees Pockets as though it is some sort of entitlement. It must be the UAW mindset where Union workers can fleece the taxpayers indefinitely while they polish their luxury boats down at the Marina….Just gimme gimme gimme because you are so F’g rich…..The Yankees work hard for their money and I am one fan who doesn’t mind paying my cable bill, knowing that $ 2.00/month goes to the YES Network. And given the millions of cable subscribers we have here, the Yanks’ revenue stream is robust and diverse. I will continue to support them as long as I feel they are responding to the fans. The Yankees provide a great product and what more can you ask?
The Yankees provide a great product and what more can you ask?
Less annoying fans?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
For a team that is involved in scams for bleeding taxpayers, you sure talk some BS. Will your thief of a mayor go to prison for his quid pro quo to get his personal luxury box? How about the payoffs for giving a false property tax valuation of the stadium? The YES network is probably taxpayer subsidized. The stadium is completely paid for. Everything about it stinks of the same corruption. And what’s the point? So the Yankees don’t have to compete. Heaven forbid that they didn’t have a system that gave them a massive advantage.
Revenue Sharing
Last time I checked all teams are a part of MLB. Without the league and the other teams the Yankees would not exist in their current capacity. There needs to be revenue sharing. I don’t know if I am a fan of the current set up, but it is something.
Now I agree there needs to be a way to make teams compete every year. Florida (in a mid-market) shouldn’t be allowed to spend only about $25 mil and then rake in the profits from the Yankees, Red Sox, etal.
I don’t think you can claim the Brewers aren’t trying to spend money and win. Maybe win Wendy was in charge, but I think Mark wants to compete and he has shown he will put money back into the team.
I am not going to pretend to be smart enough to come up with a perfect system, but if ecomonic trends continue it would be a shame in 20 years if every small/mid-market team would have to fold.
I suppose we could all just enjoy 162 games of Red Sox verses Yankees shoved down our throats on E***. Maybe contraction was the way to go.
Do what is right even when everyone knows it is coming. It is still right.
The Marlins are a perfect example of why..
this argument is moot. The amount of one team’s payroll has never been the deciding criteria in who gets to the World Series. look at the Tampa Rays, the Diamondbacks, the Marlins… I could care less if the Brewers or any other team has a lower or even higher payroll. What matters is that the GM of the team needs to be surrounded by good baseball minds; talent evaluators with a record of being right more often than being wrong. When Gene Michael finally retires, all Yankee fans will be concerned, for it was he, not Cashman, who saw the value in Brosius, O’Neil, Girardi and the like. He built those championship teams wisely and with few FA signings.
What irks me is that these teams use this false argument to pick the pockets of the Yankees and this year, the Tigers. Heck, if the Yanks didn’t need to fork over $ 27 million in luxury tax this year, who knows who else we could add to this awesome lineup?
Revenue Sharing is just another word for socialism. And this capitalist is disgusted by it all. Go Yanks!
take some time and read some basic logic
The existence of the Mariners in no way renders the argument moot.
Revenue sharing is part of a league structure that pays participants for their actions. There is no socialism or capitalism in a league. If you don’t want revenue sharing, there should be no requirement for teams to play the Yankees. Let them play away from the giant welfare trough or not at all. The only games would be ones that are mutually agreed to. Better yet get them out of the league. They can hire a couple teams to play the part of the Washington Generals which is what the strange people who cheer for the rigged system now seem to want.
Listen Bub... you're all wrong!
Revenue sharing is just plain theft. Work hard, succeed and give your hard earned money to a bunch of losers who couldn’t do it as well as you. Give me a break! It’s like giving billions of tax payer dollars to a group of bankrupted automakers, who clearly have chosen a path of fiscal irresponsibility. How will the automakers compete in the global market if they are rewarded for failure? Our system demands that they be shut down and in their wake new automakers will rise up and take their place with better products and better bottom lines…. And, the worst part is by giving this money to the losers, you impair the ability of the profitable/successful companies/teams to do business as they would do it.
Baseball doesn’t need revenue sharing. It simply needs management teams that are committed to their fans and aren’t afraid to make smart moves. Look a what the Marlins have done…the Rays too. On shoestring budgets they both made it to the World Series and in the Marlin’s case they won it 2 times! How great is that?
The fact is that a baseball team can only have 25 active players on it at any given time. There are at least 700 professional baseball players at the major league level and they all have to get paid. Some will make more than others, some will perform better than others. It’s what makes baseball fun to watch and follow as a fan. who couldn’t help but feel great watching the young Rays play in last year’s World Series? It isn’t rigged, because if it was, then the Yankees would win the World Series every year and the Rays wouldn’t stand a chance.

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