Monday's Frosty Mug
Tom Haudricourt says an announcement is imminent on the hiring of Rick Peterson as the new Brewer pitching coach. Is anyone else as unsure about this as I am? I know Peterson is highly regarded and all that, but the concept of one more guy coming in to tinker with the deliveries of the young pitchers makes me shudder. If Peterson announces a plan to overhaul Yovani Gallardo's delivery, someone may have to come pull me away from the ledge.
Meanwhile, Bryan Price, who also interviewed for the position, has accepted the same job with the Reds. So, if Peterson isn't the pick after all, the search will likely go back to the drawing board. The Pirates filled their pitching coach vacancy internally, promoting AAA pitching coach (and former Brewer) Ray Searage.
Somehow, an unlikely story from an unlikely source got legs this weekend and ran all over the blogosphere. As noted in Rumorville, at least one person thought the Brewers might be close to a deal to acquire Zach Greinke from the Royals. For once, I'm completely with Tom H. on this one. I read over 300 baseball sites daily but Bleacher Report isn't one of them, and "rumors" like this one are exactly why.
Elsewhere on the hot stove, Roguejim made the case for retaining Felipe Lopez, and View From Bernie's Chalet video-blogged on the possibility of retaining Mike Cameron.
Meanwhile, no one seems to be making the case for retaining Jason Kendall, even though Baseball Reflections ranked him fifth among free agent catchers. The $4.25 million Kendall made in 2009 was the ninth highest catcher salary in all of baseball last season.
Tristarscoop had a note over the weekend on athletes and Twitter, wondering if Seth McClung has hurt his chances of returning by taking that route and being as honest as he's been with the fans. McClung responded in three parts, and I'm glad to see he doesn't appear to plan on changing anytime soon.
Speaking of McClung, you have until 5 pm today to join the Bring Back Seth McClung Facebook group to be eligible to win a baseball autographed by the group's namesake. As I write this, 324 members have joined. Will you be 325?
Over at Cute Sports, Tristarscoop also picked up on a nice story involving Craig Counsell and a Special Olympian.
Around baseball:
Cubs: Released So Taguchi.
D-Backs: Brandon Webb doesn't expect to sign a long term extension this winter, and could be a free agent following next season.
Dodgers: Declined Will Ohman's option for 2010.
It's widely accepted that the Brewers are pretty lucky to have Mark Attanasio as an owner, and perhaps we should be even more grateful given the mess developing in Los Angeles. True Blue LA has a great read chronicling the history of Dodger ownership. Even if you don't read the whole thing, check out the link for the first picture: Even Tommy Lasorda looks disgusted while sitting next to the McCourts.
Speaking of ownership trouble: Go check your checkbook. If you've got $525-$550 million to spare, you could own the Texas Rangers.
Two weeks ago, I mentioned some speculation that the Brewers could deal J.J. Hardy to the Nationals for John Lannan, sparking a debate in the comments on Lannan's abilities and the difference between a productive starter and a smoke-and-mirrors laden disaster-in-waiting. That debate continues elsewhere, as Jack Moore looks at Lannan's low BABIP over at FanGraphs, and Nick Steiner of The Hardball Times launched an effort to attempt to explain it.
Speaking of disasters-in-waiting, postseason umpiring continues to be a major topic of conversation this October. Aaron Gleeman notes that at least a dozen umpires, including some of baseball's longest tenured, were unavailable for the postseason due to injury issues, but also nails it with this point:
In theory even MLB's non-elite umpires should be capable of doing their job at an acceptable level, so regardless of injuries and workload restrictions Bud Selig and company still need to address the issues that we've seen so far.The last two candidates are set to interview today for the Astros' managerial vacancy, but Jorge Says No! has gone ahead and handicapped the field. He thinks Manny Acta is both the most deserving candidate and the one most likely to get the job. The best thing we can do is continue to hope for Ned Yost.
Sports media is filled with complaints about whiny, overpaid athletes and whatnot, but it's worth noting that many minor league baseball players are still taking home significantly substandard wages while trying to earn their way to the big leagues. Minor league veteran Garrett Broshuis has a look at living conditions in the minor leagues, and the sacrifices some players make to keep the dream alive.
On this day in 1982, the Cardinals beat the Brewers 13-1 in Game 6 of the World Series.
Happy birthday today to Marc Newfield, who played for the Brewers in 1996, 1997 and 1998 and turns 37, and Horacio Estrada, who appeared in eleven games for the Crew in 1999 and 2000 and turns 34. Both were out of the big leagues for good after their age 25 season, and both are still younger than Craig Counsell, David Weathers and Trevor Hoffman.
I know we all have more time on our hands during the offseason, but if you're as big of a nerd as I am you'll spend that time building a Katamari.
Drink up.
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Mulder
Anyone hear anything else about Mulder looking to Peterson to help rehab?
I know he’s got that injury bug, but he’s an Ex-Cardinal and Macha did have him on his staff. It’d be worth at least taking a flyer on him to see where he’s at.
Tom Haudricourt says an announcement is imminent on the hiring of Rick Peterson as the new Brewer pitching coach. Is anyone else as unsure about this as I am? I know Peterson is highly regarded and all that, but the concept of one more guy coming in to tinker with the deliveries of the young pitchers makes me shudder. If Peterson announces a plan to overhaul Yovani Gallardo’s delivery, someone may have to come pull me away from the ledge.
That’s what pitching coaches do. They tinker with deliveries. I’m confused as to what your ideal pitching coach would do? Just the mid-inning pep-talks/scouting reports? If that’s the case, there’s not really a point in having one, is there? We need a guy who can fix the broken pitchers on our staff. I don’t consider Gallardo among those pitchers, so it’s not likely that he’d be one of Peterson’s main fix-it priorities. Although, we need a guy to overhaul Gallardo’s mind, not his delivery. Hopefully Peterson can get it done.
I thought
Peterson was really focused on the optimal delivery, the one thats the best at preventing injuries. (Man imagine Ben Sheets with a delivery that wouldnt’ cause a DL stint). So even though half the game is mental, it seems like Peterson is a tinkering on mechanics.
Were Sheets' injuries caused by his delivery?
Or by the fact that he didn’t keep himself in shape, especially in the off-season?
If only Sheets...
Had a work ethic like CC, he’d never get hurt! ;)
by rluzinski on Oct 20, 2009 6:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Organization
I think it will be an organizational thing more than anything. He can help pick out players in the draft that won’t get hurt, and he can help prevent players in the minors from getting hurt before reaching the big leagues (Rogers and Jones come to mind?).
I’d much rather have him tinker with Gallardo’s delivery and have him be slightly less effective, than have him shred a tendon and ruin his career. Gallardo could be in a Brewers uniform for a very long time, and I’d like to keep it that way.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Could he do something with Parra?
A slightly-less effective Gallardo means he’s not Gallardo anymore. If he holds out as an ace for 3 years, that’s worth more to the Brewers than a solid #2 man for 10 years given that he’ll only be with the Brewers for four (?) more years.
The early reports on Parra this year was that they were trying to get him to change his pitch selection. Did they make any mechanical changes? I think I’m just still in denial about how bad he was this year.
I don't think he's become an Ace yet
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
well hey there
jinx
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
That's fair
If your definition of “ace” doesn’t allow Gallardo, that’s fair.
I suggest replacing “Ace” with “#1 pitcher” in my post and the point still stands. Do you want 3 or 4 years with a guy leading the rotation or do you want those same 3 or 4 years of his 10 year career sitting at #2 or #3?
Even Kerry Wood and his horrendous mechanics lasted 3-4 seasons at the major league level before blowing out.
It's a moot point. Gallardo's mechanics don't need tweaking.
Even if Peterson thinks they do, that’s on page 17 on his “broken stuff on brewers pitchers” list. Probably don’t have to worry about it.
I thought that's the internet is for!
Debating hypotheticals that matter to no one except the 2 (or 3) people in the discussion!
Good point, though.
Tweeking with his approach is probably in order.
by Zorakathura on Oct 19, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
And to me, that's a pitching coach's job.
Adjusting approach, preparing pitchers to face certain hitters, handling bullpen sessions and other workouts between starts, etc.
That’s a big difference from mechanical overhaul. And, based on Peterson’s recent work on biomechanics and his comments about wanting an organization that will wholeheartedly buy into that philosophy, I worry about the possibility of mass overhauls.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
by Kyle Lobner on Oct 19, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
At what level does it make sense?
I don’t see a big reason for overhauling a major league pitcher that’s seen success, but where does one draw the line? Assuming for the moment that Peterson’s biomechanics might actually have an impact, do you change a top prospect even if he’s got major-league stuff now?
It makes sense if you've got a guy who is struggling could see a major change in results.
Or a young guy who projects to never make the big leagues because of injury risk.
Problem is, when you change around a guy’s delivery in any significant way, you’re increasing his injury risk because the new motion is going to feel awkward, at least at first, and when something feels awkward it’s difficult to tell the difference between doing it right and wrong.
So, if you’ve got a guy who’s productive but has a flaw, you can increase his chances of having an injury-free career by adjusting to fix the flaw, but you raise his risk of short term injury by forcing him to alter his mechanics.
IIRC, Mark Rogers was one of the guys the Brewers drafted and tried to “fix.” He’s just now starting to show signs of life again.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I'm talking about the difference between having him be a very valuable #2
for 5-6 years, vs. him being a #1 who is on the brink of becoming an ace for 1 year. All I’m saying is I don’t think Peterson is going to tinker with Gallardo’s delivery unless he thinks there’s
1) a way to make him pitch even better
2) a very likely chance that he’s going to get injured.
And when I say slightly less effective, I’m not saying it’s the difference between a #1 pitcher and a #3 pitcher, I’m talking the difference between and ERA or 3.2 adn 3.4.. not that ERA is a great measure…
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I wonder
if Peterson’s main charge would be Parra.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
If he's on the roster, then Parra should be project #1.
Of all the players currently on the 40 man, Parra’s the one that would have the most impact if he plays to his potential.
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe i'll use the offseason to build a popsicle stick catamaran
with minimal additional materials (glue, rubber bands) for structural components.
but that would take effort, so maybe i won’t.
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 19, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Although mostly theoreticaly possible,
the deck struts, boom, mast, and rudder would have to be made out of stronger stuff, or you would certainly crack up and capsize.
by Braunstalker on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not talking a life-size recreation
just something that will float in a bathtub
by PagsBrewCrew on Oct 19, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not Cartman?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm of two minds on the minor league salary arguments
There’s a clear market failure in that they’re not allowed to openly market their skills. They’re put into a system determined by the day their drafted. The owners offer a wage and they choose to work at that wage or not work at all; they’re not being paid what an open market would truly offer them for their services (either less or more).
Market failure or no, though, there’s still at least an element of supply and demand at work. There’s a very limited supply of roster spots in professional baseball and a ton of people willing to fill them for the peanuts the owners are offering. Take a look and you’ll find plenty of UNPAID internships for exclusive employers in all kinds of fields. Would we even be having this discussion if we called minor league players, “interns” until they hit, say AA? Interns don’t make much money until they’ve proven they’re worth something to your employer.
(If a minor leaguer needs a sympathetic ear, just talk to the camera guy filming highlights for the local news station. He’s also in a field where the new guys make nothing, have no prospects of earning a living wage for 5 years and yet still do it because they love their work.)
I think Supply and Demand argument makes more sense at the low levels of the minor league system and the players don’t have much reason to complain. No one’s proven to their employer, they’re worth an investment. Once a player hits AAA, though, they’ve all but proven they have value as professional baseball players and yet enjoy no bargaining power to have the freedom to earn what they’re worth.
Even the exception that proves the rule is flawed.
Local TV guys are based in one market, and won’t be moved around to 4-5 markets over a period of years. If I’m shooting TV in Wausau today, I won’t get promoted to Green Bay or demoted to Rhinelander on a day’s notice. But a minor leaguer could need a new place to live in a new city tomorrow, and either have to uproot a family or support two homes.
Also, that local TV guy works and gets paid year round.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
by Kyle Lobner on Oct 19, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It wasn't meant as a counter-example
I just meant to point out that there are other jobs that have similarities like choosing to make minimum wage, because it’s a job they enjoy. I don’t think any job precisely matches the life of a minor league baseball player (or the local TV guy, for that matter), but there are jobs that match it in certain respects.
I don’t think the relocation issues still fit into the supply and demand argument and the market failure argument. There are still guys willing to make the relocation work for the pay offered and there are still affiliate owners that are never going to lift a finger to help them because they don’t have to.
Baseball hasn’t ever followed the rules governing the rest of our economy as far as the employer/employee relationship goes. If it did, it would quite likely suck. Baseball without a draft? Ick.
Either way, I think, with a good attitude the perks from being a once minor league ball player would outweigh the negatives of being treated like cattle.
Also, I very much doubt the guys getting most screwed by the system would benefit at all from it being ‘freer.’ The players who are going to get the money more than likely already have with draft bonus.’
If the problem was to be addressed at all it would have to be by the Player’s Association, and, sadly, the seem to only care about the Arod’s of the sport and not so much about the R.A. Dickey’s.
by Braunstalker on Oct 19, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean it's right
Sure, baseball’s never followed free market capitalism, but the point has to be made. The very first counterargument to “I’m not being paid enough” is “go work for somewhere else.” That works for the vast majority of Americans. If you can’t find someone willing to pay you what you think you’re worth, then you’re not worth that much. Baseball players don’t have the freedom to sell their skills on the open market for many years.
You’re right that the Player’s Association is the only organization that could make a difference and it’s an entirely different thread of discussion as to why they don’t bother (honestly, I don’t get it either, but I don’t belong to a union so I suppose I wouldn’t).
The thing is,
if baseball had a completely free market there would be no way to ensure competitve balance. The richest teams would be the most succesful (moreso than they already are). As a result poorer teams wouldn’t be able to compete and would eventually go out of business.
In the end, the vast majority of the minor leaguers who we are talking about wouldn’t even have any chance of playing professional baseball.
It is what it is.
Also,
the idea of a free market economy inside the bubble of a legalized monopoly, although in no way wrong, is funny at the very least.
by Braunstalker on Oct 19, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"... sadly, they seem to only care about the Arod's of the sport and no so much about the R.A. Dickey's."
And the agents. Don’t forget about the agents. It’s not just the MLBPA though. The same is certainly true of the NFLPA. The truth is that Scott Boras wields a great deal more power in the MLBPA than almost all individual players do. Most of the union members will be gone in 10 years or less but Boras will be there forever, and his clients make the most money and thus wield a lot of influence in the union room too. The identity of the player Boras is standing next to almost doesn’t matter. Two years later it’ll be his latest stud signing a ridiculously large contract, and when Boras’s boys stand up and say “this is what worked for me, and we have to protect my ability to earn that kind of salary” the McClungs, Dillards and Coffeys of the world vote the way their told because if they can hang on long enough, they’ll make a few million a season to be slightly above replacement level. And the Weeks, Fielders and Brauns of the world vote the way their told because someday they’ve got a real chance at being the guy standing next to Boras a few weeks after signing a 5 year, 100million plus deal.
The guys at the bottom of the pecking order, the 23rd-25th man on the active roster, have no ability to influence that room. They know the least number of people in the room, they have the least amount of time to make connections and get comfortable with how the union works, and most of them are gone for good in 5 years or less. And quite frankly, I doubt many of them try. The current system lets them play ball for a couple hundred thousand per year and my guess most of them are thrilled to cash those checks even if it’s just for a season or two. It beats hustling cars for 40K.
Maybe most important of all, each player in the league knows their sitting in a room that’s populated with millionaires. They’ve won the lottery even getting in the door, and they want thost top end contracts to be as big as possible on the theory that it brings up the value of the scratch off tickets the 25th man leaves the game with. That IS capitalism. I’m not sure why people think otherwise.
As for the union leaders, why should they bust their backs for the backbenchers who will be out of the league in a couple of years? If they do, Boras and his big-agent colleagues will talk to their clients and get those leaders tossed out into the unemployment line. The only professional athlete union leader I can recall who ever made the bottom guys his priority was Ed Garvey, who was the NFLPA’s legal counsel during the labor wars back inn the 80’s. He told the players in that league not to use agents, or if they did, to pay them flat fees instead of a percentage of their contracts, particularly for rookies whose salaries were largely dictated by the NFL slotting system.
His reward for that effort? He got run out by a group of players that just happened to be represented by the same dozen or so agents.
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 19, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha!
I should have checked instead of just tossing off names like that.
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 20, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
but your point still stands
just a wee bit differently, in regards to the non-superstar client of a superstar agent. Do they get the same attention to detail (or does the agent not mention to the client that he has an extra option year?…yes, this happened)
I got the chance to hang with Garvey when he was running for Gov.
If you ever get the chance, he has great stories about those NFL days.
by Braunstalker on Oct 20, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He taught a class of mine when I was in law school.
All we heard were war stories about his days as counsel for the NFLPA.
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 20, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
MLB is a trade. The minors are the way to work towards your ultimate goal. In any other career, people don’t become head of a department instantly. It all involves dedication to the company(team) and showing that you have the skill to receive the promotion. Baseball is the same. Also, everyone there made a choice to do what they are doing. If they fail out or never get promoted looks like they made a bad life choice. Last point is that most minor league teams are in very small markets;thusly cost of living is very low. A minor leaguer making 30k in a town the avg houshold income is 30k isn’t doing so terrible.
by Mr. McGehee on Oct 19, 2009 2:09 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Are they really making $30k?
Is it really $30k?
4) What do Minor League players earn?
Minor League Baseball player contracts are handled by the Major League Baseball office. Here are the salary ranges:
First contract season: $1,100/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation
Alien Salary Rates: Different for aliens on visas—mandated by INS (Immigration).
Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/info/faq.jsp?mc=milb_info
Clearly, they’re not all making minimum salary after their first year, but I can’t see teams providing 2nd year players with $3,500+ / month. I guess how long they can afford to play depends on their draft bonus.
and support from family
a lot of these guys live at home in the offseason …. a 19-year-old living at home doesn’t (have to) have many expenses during the offseason.
Also keep in mind that many of these kids have gotten parental support for lots and lots of baseball through junior high and high school…all this talk about baseball being a sport for rich kids isn’t 100% true, but I’ll bet an awful lot of guys in rookie ball are getting spending money from their parents.
Also, for some, living expenses during the season are lower than you might think, since some players live with host families, meaning that the players don’t pay rent, and get some food provided too.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 19, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The heck with Peterson
Dick Pole is available, hee hee hee. Dick Pole
"It may sound hollow, it may sound unrealistic, it may even sound stupid to some people. We still think we are in it," - Mark Attanasio
by GoCrew on Oct 19, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Right?
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Oct 19, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I get one for creating the group, right? Right?
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Oct 19, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh. wrong announcement. Somebody didn't read the Mug today.
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Oct 19, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions























