MLBTR's Bad Contract Swap Meet
by roguejim on Oct 28, 2009 2:33 PM CDT
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PrintThis could be one of my all time favorite MLBTR posts. Tim Dierkes scoured all of baseball's contracts and cribbed together the worst of the worst, the contracts any GM would love to get rid of. Happily, only Jeff Suppan (1 year, $14.5 million) is listed under the Brewers, though there are some other familiar names, including CoCo (2 years, $25 million) and Scott Linebrink (2 years, $10.5 million). Interestingly, there's only one Yankee on the list (Kei Igawa, 2/$8), versus three Cubs (heh).
This got me thinking: how would you pawn off Suppan's contract using the names on this list, if you could? (I'd assume we couldn't get rid of Suppan's contract unless we took back a multi-year, more expensive contract in return.) Would you trade Suppan for Milton Bradley (2 years/$21 million)? I'd probably take a chance on the board game magnate in center, so long that we have Plan B (Jody Gerut) in case something goes wrong. What can you come up with?
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We're so close to being done with Suppan
Let’s just getit over with.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I wouldn't like to see Milton Bradley in a Brewers uniform
And I doubt any of the players would, either. He’s a cancerous figure, and appears to absolutely destroy teams he plays on (perhaps excepting the Rangers).
I’d take Fausto Carmona for Jeff Suppan.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
Cancer
I’m really curious how much of a cancer he would be here. He seemed alright in TX, and they’re a very tight knit group that seems to welcome newcomers into that tight knit group. Josh Hamilton said it was the first mlb team he was ever on that really seemed make an effort to take him in as one of their own. The Brewers seem to have that same sort of chemistry.
That being said, it’s not a risk I’d be willing to take.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
He might be motivated to stick it to the Cubs fans.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Oct 28, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
If I could switch with any of those on the list.
Any of the one year deals would save us money, so that would be good. I wouldn’t want any contract that is more than a year that is close to or more than Suppans $14M, so no thanks to Milton Bradley.
Fausto Carmona if the Brewers think Peterson can guide him back to some semblance of his 2007 form. Nate Robertson wouldn’t be horrendous. Jeremy Bonderman would be a good risk to take. Jeff Francis also would probably be better than Suppan.
I don’t think anything like this will happen, though, and for the most part I agree with tcyoung and we should just get this last year done with. And hope to God that Melvin isn’t dumb enough to pick up his option for 2011.
Jeff Francis
:)
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
suppan for dontrelle willis?
Each has one year left
by Oakland Brewer Fan on Oct 28, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions
I'm much more frightened by what's wrong with Willis than what's wrong with Suppan
At least you know Suppan’s going to give you 5 innings and 6 ER each time out. Hopefully you can outhit that a couple of times. Willis will spend most of his time next year on the headcase DL, and a replacement level (or below ::coughMikeBurnscough::) pitcher will be making his starts. At least Suppan is basically replacement.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Even Juan Pierre
If the Dodgers will cover the difference.
He plays decent defense, and the Brewers need a CF next year.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
I’m not sure the Dodgers would have motivation to do that deal.
Suppan will give you 200 innings of below average pitching, wouldn’t Juan Pierre as a 4th or 5th OF have more value than Suppan if the salaries match up?
Looking at it from other teams perspective I don’t see many that would take on Suppan unless they were getting rid of a 2-3 year contract, and from the Brewers perspective I’d rather just suck it up and pay Suppan this year and not be stuck with a bad contract in 2010 or 2011.
It is amazing how so many contracts signed last offseason already look terrible.
Decent defense?
His range is pretty poor for CF these days and he has probably the worst arm in a major league outfield.
Juan Pierre is pretty much only good in left these days and you’ll get a lot of singles and not enough walks for a player with his skill set.
by kingcharlesxii on Oct 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Alex Sanchez
doesn’t like being left out of these conversations either.
by Braunstalker on Oct 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Neither does Carlos Lee
Not because he has that bad an arm, but because he’s just plain nosy.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Oct 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I tried,
but I didn’t have the heart to throw out a Brady Clark joke.
by Braunstalker on Oct 28, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
And Johnny Damon, too.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I always thought that would be a good promotion:
Pick your favorite noodle-armed outfielder, grab a random Little Leaguer out of the crowd, and see who can throw the ball farther.
My all-time favorite Juan Pierre play
At Wrigley, Damian Miller on 1st, Brady Clark batting. Fly ball to CF, Pierre went back and caught it and threw to the infield…but not before Miller tagged up from first to second.
Sign Corky Miller
Look there's a reason its a bad contract
Do you want Suppan and his 6.00 ERA? Or a .265/.335/.310 CF who will probably have a neutral or slightly plus UZR again next year?
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Sup for Guzman
seems like it could be done to the benefit of both teams, with us picking up the difference.
How does Guzman help us? Or are we trading Escobar, in that scenario?
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
As a backup, assuming Hardy and Gamel or McGehee get traded.
by Braunstalker on Oct 28, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
A few guys
I’d move Suppan for Cordero (still an effective reliever but you’d add a bit of salary, consider it $8 million for 2011) or even for Kei Igawa, who I would then release and be happy that I saved $6 million. Carmona would be worth a shot as well. None of these teams would do those deals straight up unless they went insane.
Igawa
Isn’t that what the Mets did with (I think) Estrada: traded us Mota, and then cut him?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I think you're right.
I think the Mets traded for Johnny, then didn’t offer him arbitration and let him walk.
Scott Linebrink or Carmona?...
I don’t mind Linebrink, seems like he had a bad year this season. Middle relief always seems like a move DM is willing to make.
Carmona would be nice if back to form.
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Oct 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions
I think the only team that would actually take on Soup's contract is the Cubs for Bradley
and we don’t need him causing problems for us. We’re probably all just going to have to suck it up and suffer through another year of Suppan. After that, we’re done with it, so let’s not take on any more bad contracts.
Another thought- Were’s Hall on that list? That’s a terrible contract.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
Hall's contract is terrible ...
but not for the Mariners. We’re picking up most (if not all) of his salary, after all.
Um, this isn't the worst of the worst
Fukudome has 2yrs/26.5 mil left on his deal, Jorge Posada 2/26 and Jeter is 1/18 mil.
Don't ever slander The Captain
Some New Yorker will make you sorry.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Suppan for Bradley? Not a bad trade.
Despite the media onslaught, he really wasn’t that awful this year (when he wasn’t injured) – and I have a hard time believing he’s such a cancerous figure that he destroys ballclubs. The Cubs have Lou Piniella as a manager and Zambrano as their ace… I think the story of Bradley destroying some harmonious team dynamic was pure nonsense.
Less feasible for the Brewers long-term, but Alex Rios is also a guy who isn’t nearly as bad as he’s made out to be. He had a dismal second-half after getting traded to Chicago (I know all too well, as he was sinking my fantasy team), but if you take that as an abberation, he’s been worth his contract for the rest of his career. There was a post on Fangraphs back when he got traded looking at how it was actually a bad move for Toronto.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Calling your teammate a racist isn't divisive?
Saying you can understand why your current team has a culture of losing isn’t cancerous?
I guess you and I have differing opinions of those words.
On top of that, why do you want an albatross contract of a guy who’s a bad corner OF, and won’t be on the field for more than 120 games?
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He said there was a negative atmosphere around the Cubs organization
A comment which not only is entirely true, but which came after he had been ridiculed and scapegoated by the Cubs organization for much of the season.
And no, obviously Milton Bradley wouldn’t be my first choice in the world to add to the Brewers OF. The point of this thread is that he brings much more value than Suppan…
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
He brings much more value?
He hasn’t played more than 141 games in a season in his entire career, and that was 2004. He’s an extremely streaky hitter, and the current Brewers lineup is full of extremely streaky hitters. He plays bad defense, and the last time he played more than 15 games in CF was 2005. His UZR in RF was -3.1 in 2009, and by moving Corey Hart to CF, the entire OF defense suffers horribly.
AND he’s got two years on his contract. To me, that’s much less valuable than 1 year of Suppan at 12.5M.
But you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Bradley adds positive value to the team, Suppan adds negative value to the team
Once again, both of these players are bad and overpaid, we get it. Bradley, though, is at least above replacement value.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
I wonder what it would net out to if you include the replacement level OF that will have to take his place for 40 games.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 28, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Other than getting rid of Bradley, what good does that do for the Cubs, though?
I mean, I get that they obviously want to get rid of him, but they don’t really need any starting pitching right now and their internal options are certainly better than the ~5 ERA that Suppan would give them, or at least are younger with actual upside. If/when the Cubs do unload Bradley, I would imagine (if it is a situation as in this fanpost, that is bad contract for bad contract) that they would try to swap outfielders with somebody, since they don’t really have any other third outfielders after Soriano and Fukudome.
Fair enough
But I find it hard to believe any team would want Suppan’s contract. And the Cubs at least make a little sense in the fact that the seem ready to do just about anything to get Bradley off their team (if only just to save face publicly), assuming they couldn’t find another outfielder in return.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
True, but I would think that this would be about the last option other than straight releasing him.
I suppose it would even make some sense for the Cubs to do this trade just because, even if they have no use for Suppan, it does save them more money than if they just released Bradley. And that is assuming that they do not eat any of Bradleys contract as well.
The end of that list kind of loses me
Jeff Francis? Yeah, he missed this past season, but he’s not terrible. Aaron Miles? $2.7 million might be a big deal to the Marlins, but not the typical team. I guess I don’t get why the one-year deals are so bad you need to dump them on someone else. Well, I do, they’re far above what the player is worth…but it’s only one year. If you’re going use it to acquire some other crappy player, just waive the guy and claim some cheap fill-in or give an AAA guy a shot. I guess it’s just provoking idle chatter before the hot stove turns on.
Sign Corky Miller
But it is his contract year
I am expecting Suppan to be at least average in 2010.
It is his contract year. He will have a 4.75ish ERA and go 15-12. Then Cincinnati, Houston or ??? will offer him a contract.
So don’t trade him. He is the evil that we know. And that is better than the evil that we don’t know.
by Saberilliterate on Oct 28, 2009 8:22 PM CDT reply actions
omg he has an option?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 28, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
$2MM buyout
The ghost of Suppan continues to haunt next year.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
What about Ollie Perez?
His only real success was with Peterson as a pitching coach. If it doesn’t work, you end up with Suppan money committed for 2 years instead of one, but the upside is undeniable. I’m not sure what his injury status is, but if that guy could throw strikes, he’d be pretty dang good.
Magglio
Perez, Carmona, Francis, Bonderman, I could live with any of these guys instead of Suppan.
But what I’d like to see if trading Corey Hart and Suppan, for a year of Maggio Ordonez if RF. Image Magglio Batting behind Braun and Prince!
Only problem is he has a vesting option so we might get stuck with him for more than a year.
Would the Brewers be interested in Derek Lowe?
You could have him for very little, as long as the Brew Crew take a good majority of the contract.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
Sure
If the Braves take Suppan.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
haha we don’t need another starting pitcher. DLowe is our worst starter thus the reason we’re trying to trade him
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Oct 31, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't think of him as a starting pitcher
We sure don’t. Think of him as a good luck charm.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
LOL
im guessing you guys aren’t too fond of Mr. Suppan?
But hey, you could get a 23 year old phenom pitcher in Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson…if you wanna send us Ryan Braun!
Actually, I think a Jurrjens/Jordan Schafer for Braun deal might actually work. Jurrjens is an absolute stud and Jordan Schafer had a very good 1st month as a 21 year old rookie until he busted his wrist. He’s a 5 tool player and has room to grow.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
and a fun fact about Jurrjens: He allowed 2ER or less in 26/34 starts in 2009. Not too shabby
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It's hard to imagine us trading Braun
before 2013.
Fielder, on the other hand…
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
i proposed something earlier in the year of Jurrjens and a decent prospect for the Prince.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, undervalue much?
And Jurrjens/Schafer for Braun? They grow the good stuff down there, huh?
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Nov 2, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
Fun fact about pitchers
They are very, very volatile in performance and health. Especially when compared to position players. Jurrjens and Schafer is not a offer the Brewers would even consider.
Braun is controlled for six more years for well below market value. To consider trading him, you’d have to trade six years of a valuable hitter— I’m talking about Heyward, yes— and a pitcher. Jurrjens or Hanson.
Since the Brewers are not trading Braun and the Braves are not trading Heyward, this is a discussion that’s not going to go anywhere. Jurrjens and Schafer is honestly laughable.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
by Jordan M on Nov 1, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Heyward AND Jurrjens or Hanson? lol. Ya, okay..
Im just thinking what would benefit your team. Schafer plays excellent defense is going to be a stud leadoff man for years to come. Jair Jurrjens would become the best pitcher on your team. Gallardo is good, but Jurrjens is a much better pitcher if you look at the numbers.
If you want Braden Looper as your #2 starter and Jeff Suppan as your #3 starter, be my guest. But that, my friend, is honestly laughable.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Jurrjens and Schafer would benefit the Brewers, yes
But why would they possibly trade Braun for those two?
Braun’s maybe a 5-6 WAR player over the next 6 years, with an upside of maybe 9. He’s signed for his first two years of free agency, through 2015. He is one of the most valuable assets in baseball. Jurrjens is probably a 4 WAR-ish pitcher. But pitchers are a lot more volatile in projections, if you could guarantee he’ll be way above average for the next 4 years, it’d be a lot less closer, but you have to automatically lower his value because pitchers are really hard to project and they get injured so often. Schafer is a good prospect. Probably not as good of a prospect as our Alcides Escobar, and a little better of a prospect than Mat Gamel.
Do you think Jurrjens and Schafer would get you David Wright, Brian McCann, Chase Utley, or Zack Grienke? Those are the players surrounding Braun on the fangraphs trade value list, which factors in contract situation.
If the Brewers sent out a memo to the league that Braun was available, they’d easily get 10-15 offers that are way better than Jurrjens and Schafer.
I’m also going to point out that while Jurrjens is a good pitcher, he’s not a 2.60 ERA pitcher. He’s a 3.6 to 3.8ish ERA pitcher. I like him a lot but I think Gallardo is better than him going forward. Jurrjens is a 6k/ 3bb guy who gets groundballs. Gallardo is a 10k/ 4.5 bb guy. I like Yovani’s chances of getting better control than I do Jurrjen’s chances of K ing more.
Your point is: you need a good pitcher, and we have one to trade. This is true, yes, but my point is: we can get a much better pitcher and a 3-4 other guys, too, if for some idiotic reason we decided to trade Braun.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
fair enough
you win!
And i’d take JJ over Gallardo with Yovani’s recent health concerns, but you could make a case for either pitcher.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
Health concerns?
I haven’t heard of any health concerns for Gallardo. He missed most of the 2008 season with a torn ACL in a collision at first base with a baserunner—and to prove his manliness he stayed in the game and got another 5 outs. :) But it certainly didn’t seem to be a problem last season, and I don’t recall him ever being hurt, either. The Brewers did shut him down early because they were already pretty much eliminated from the playoffs and wanted to protect their best pitcher from getting hurt.
That’s what I was getting at: They shut him down early in 2009. Yeah, you don’t wanna risk him getting hurt, but I think there was at least a little concern about him if they didnt want him pitching in September. Even if you’re eliminated, you dont throw your scrubs out there and sit all your stars
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
Well, it's kind of the point Jordan was getting at, isn't it?
Pitchers can be extremely volatile so the Brewers took measures to help keep their best young pitcher healthy without overworking him. He wasn’t injured in any way, they were just trying to keep him that way. That goes to show why trading Braun for Jurrjens and Heyward is so risky from the Brewers standpoint.
The last line
I think you mean Jurrjens and Schafer, which was his initial offer. Heyward is a beast. I’d have to consider that offer though it would never happen.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Pretty unrelated
Doesn’t it make more sense to list ratios as they compare to 1?
10:4.5 and 6:3 are very similar.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Two reasons
10:4.5 is better than 6:3 for a couple different reasons, and I like the 10:4.5 guy because it’s easier to get better control and walk fewer batters than to get better stuff and strike out more batters.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
two points
a) The braves aren’t the only potential trade partner out there
and
b) Braun has more long-term value, and likely just as much short-term value as the players mentioned, no?
Like has been suggested, Fielder may be a viable target, because of his lessened long term value to the brewers.
glad I could spy on your computer as you were typing your post
I saw your post appear a few secs before I hit “post”, which I did before I read yours:P
by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 1, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
I would take Lowe
That’s like a 3 year, 48 million-ish left, right? We’d take on most of the contract and give up something with a little value. If the Braves would take like $5 to 10 mil total I’d give them a really good prospect.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Yeah, its 3yrs 45MM. And if the Brew Crew took on at least 10MM, I doubt you would have to give up much in the way of a prospect. Maybe a decent B-level prospect.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by Scott Coleman on Nov 1, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
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