My Take on the Mat Gamel/ Casey McGehee Situation
by Jordan M on Oct 7, 2009 5:09 PM CDT
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PrintThe Brewers need some trade bait. The Brewers have two starting-caliber third basemen. With that in mind, here are three likely options. I'm leaving out options like "Trade both for Greg Acquino and start Seth McClung at third."
1) Trade Mat Gamel for/ in a package for a starting pitcher, let Casey McGehee be the 3B
2) Keep Mat Gamel and Casey McGehee
- McGehee produces like an average-ish 3B, Gamel sits in AAA and is eventually traded
- McGehee produces like he has in every year before 2009, goes back to the bench, Gamel starts
3) Trade Casey McGehee for/ in a package for a starting pitcher, let Mat Gamel be the 3B
The tricky thing is that we are not sure of McGehee and Gamel's value on the trade market. I would expect that Gamel would have more value. He should have more value. But some general managers are not great at evaluating players, and might look at McGehee's .367 wOBA in 394 plate appearances and decent defensive scouting reputation as a better get than Gamel, who was given inconsistent playing time despite putting up a league-average batting line and .330 wOBA in 148 plate appearances. Towards the end of the season, the Brewer management criticized Gamel's approach and ability. When starting at a defensive position, McGehee's OPS was .870, Gamel's was .864. There is a pinch hitting/ DHing penalty that lowers a player's expected level of performance when hitting in those situations.
As so I think it sets up perfectly for option number 3, which is my endorsement, though I am certainly willing to listen to arguments for another option. McGehee's value will never be higher. Gamel's value will probably never be lower. McGehee is a utility player coming off a career year, and Gamel is a stud prospect who had a decent year-- made to look worse by improper evaluation, like only looking at his strikeouts and deflating his batting stats by using him as a pinch-hitter and DH.
What should we logically project from McGehee for next year-- something like .280/.330/.450 with -5ish defense? That's a major league starter, probably close to league-average. I would project Gamel, next year, for something very similar. Maybe a slightly better hitting line and slightly worse defensive line. But they're looking pretty similar. And I would think that most would agree with me that Gamel has a higher chance to be a star next year and in the next 6 years. And on the opposite side McGehee probably has a larger chance to perform closer to his .279/.332/.409 career line in the minor leagues.
There are legitimate concerns about Gamel. Everyone's skeptical of his defense but there have been good signs so far. His strikeouts last season in the majors are a problem, but he managed to produce at about the league average despite that problem. And: 150 plate appearances.
If I had to choose one player to be the starting third basemen from this day until 2015, which is how long both players are under Brewer control, I would easily choose Gamel. And considering that McGehee probably has good value on the trade market, it's a no-brainer decision for me.
Baseball management is all about managing assets and maximizing value. It's the simple concept of selling high and buying low. The Brewers have lowered Gamel's value and raised McGehee's-- let's see if they follow through and maximize what they did to use McGehee as a tool to improve the pitching staff.
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While I agree with your assessment,
I wonder what the reaction would be to a McGehee trade. For people who don’t follow the team closely, it might not be taken all that well.
It is what it is.
I wouldn’t be worried with a rough start from Gamel, but the last two years his second half drop offs have been worrying. Then again, we’ve had Corey Hart, so I’m slightly use to the aspect of a second half slump.
I honestly could go either way with this, but feel Gamel would net a larger deal. Depends on how we take it. Frankly, things like this are why I kind of love the offseason.
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 Minutes for Excessive Stanley Cup Raising.
If this is Doug Melvin's concern
we have bigger problems than a logjam at third base. It would not be taken well.
They should take the information available at the moment and make the decision that sets them up best for success. What the uninformed fan thinks should have absolutely no bearing on the situation.
It’s about results vs. procedure. If the Brewers trade Carlos George and Brent Brewer for Zack Greinke tomorrow, it’s a great trade. But then Greinke gets hit by a bus on his way to Milwaukee and George becomes the greatest shortstop of all time. It was still a good trade…
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
While I agree
Don’t lose sight of the fact that the uninformed fans are the ones buying tickets and watching the games.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Oct 7, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
And they're coming to the ballpark to see McGehee?
The uninformed are coming to watch Braun, Fielder, and Gallardo, or just to drink beer with 35,000 of their closest friends.
Very true
I’m not sure a situation like that would be enough to affect ticket sales. Especially after this year’s failure of a pitching staff didn’t really lower ticket sales at all.
What I really don’t want is for McGehee to start the year and perform below average, and then they call up Gamel, all after they spent a bat somewhere else on the expected pitcher. Gotta get value out of this.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
my opinion, which most people know and don't care about.
you can’t just hand the job off to mat gamel. if you trade mcgehee, you better be damn sure you have a solid guy to backup gamel in case he sucks at first. I agree, long term, gamel is the better option, but if you hand him the job, and for whatever reason he can’t handle it, the crowd is going to give it to him, which isn’t going to help him get used to the job
but, hell, maybe he’ll turn out to be great right off the bat. I don’t see it happening, but, well, i’ve been wrong before.
Surely there is a risk Gamel won't produce right away
but you have to weigh that against this team’s desperate need for pitching.
It is what it is.
by coolig on Oct 7, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
there's tons of risks.
and as the post mentioned, we could probably get better pitching for Gamel. So, why take the risk with Gamel vs. the risk with McGehee?
McGehee + better pitching return vs. Gamel + iffy pitching return.
That’s the question, isn’t it?
Unless I misread Jordan's post
He feels that while Gamel should have more value, it may turn out McGehee actually does.
If that is indeed the case I would be in favor of trading McGehee. If the opposite is true and Gamel would net more in a trade, I would trade Gamel.
Basically, I’d favor trading whoever provides better return.
It is what it is.
I agree
I love McGehee as a Brewer, so I really want him to stay a Brewer and blossom into an above-average starting third baseman. But without some explanation of why he’d produce now when he couldn’t in the minors, he really is the sell-high candidate. Unfortunately, DM isn’t a sell-high kind of GM - if history is any guide, McGehee will regress to his minor league numbers, and we’ll trade him for, say, Adam Eaton.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I want to drink the option 3 Koolaid
I seriously do. The problem I have with it, is that I just don’t think he’s got all that much trade value. Aside from the fact that McGehee has never done this in his career (hitting numbers), he had a bum knee, and while it was a ‘routine procedure’, you still never know. Infections happen, scar tissue, etc etc. I really think at the best, McGehee’s sell high stock is still lower than Gamel’s sell low stock.
You also cannot discount the fact that McGehee is the heart-warming Lifetime episode of the Brewers this season. His son has cerebral palsey, and is well-liked in and of himself. McGehee’s is the story of a scrapper—something of a lifetime minor leaguer, who just never got his shot. People didn’t believe in him. The Cubs gave up on him—they have Vitters, so who needs an average hitter? Milwaukee believed in him, and he’s thrived since they gave him a shot. All of this, and more, is just like everyone who lives in Milwaukee! The people of the fine city ARE Casey McGehee!
Or, so the Brewers PR department would lead us to believe, and I’m sure many folks feel strongly about him. So…that creates a problem. Trade the new guy people love (since the old one, Hardy, is gone no matter what), who is such a heart-warming story? Or trade the guy who will almost certainly go on to have the better career, and hasn’t ‘proven’ anything at the MLB level?
Unfortunately, I think The Mustache will make the wrong choice, yet again.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
sell MeGehee while still high
I do think MeGehee is at his high possible value right now and Gamel is far off from being at his highest value. When Gamel was given consistent playing time down in AAA he’s was on fire, once he moves into the starting role and gets comfortable I see him being simular batting wise to MeGehee was in 09 but continues to get better and better while MeGehee will regress back to his minor type numbers from here on out.
Comparison with a certain Mariner
Bill Hall’s best 2 MLB years were at age 25 & 26:
He had a .280/.345/.525/.870 line those two years
MCG this year .301/.360/.499/.859
Minor league numbers career:
Hall : .264/.306/.388/.694
MCG: .279/.332/.409/.741
Brewers FO has overvalued a late bloomer before.
Looking at the stories covering the end of season press conference this afternoon...
… it looks like the initial plan is to shop Gamel. We’ll see if that changes, I suppose. I think it’s a mistake, myself, but I’m about as far from an expert at player evaluation as it’s possible to get. (Except for Sal Bando. He’s worse.)
I just think that what we saw from McGehee this year is as much as we can ever hope for, at least offensively. And while that’s pretty good I think Gamel’s offensive production will be better than that, and I’m afraid of a serious regression for McGehee. And maybe it is a product of his injury, but defensively, McGehee wasn’t that different from Gamel this season, yet the presumption is that he’s the superior defensive player based on his minor league performance, an assumption that McGehee’s champions seem reluctant to offer Gamel, whose offensive numbers in the minors are clearly superior to McGehee. It’s certainly posssible that Gamel will never produce at the major league level the way he produced in the minors, but I don’t think that’s any more likely than the possibility that McGehee just put up the best offensive numbers of his career.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions
Something else to think about...
A package of McGehee and Hardy could be interesting to a team. You have your underperformer and your overperformer.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
And they're pretty much expendable.
You can trade both without hurting the roster at all. This is the way we should be looking to upgrade.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
But how many teams are looking for a 3B and SS package?
Maybe the Twins … especially with Crede’s continuing injury problems.
Might have to get creative
And swing more than one trade to get who they want.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
True.
I didn’t reason out the Twins thing all that well — just looked at the TV and said: “Hey, Orlando Cabrera probably isn’t a long-term solution, and the Crede thing is a mess. Maybe they’d be interested.”
So would every other team, I think
He’s a very nice pitcher. And with Liriano not looking all that great (remember when he was the ace-in-waiting that allowed them to trade Santana?), I don’t think they want to get rid of Slowey at all.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Two seasons ago I think?
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
who doesn't have 2 screws in their wrist??
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I hope they don't trade either
But I really hope they don’t trade Gamel. Trading away your top prospect because a guy had one good year is just stupid.
I like McGehee, I really do, but I don’t have much confidence in him. Let McGehee start next year. If he regresses, call up Gamel, make McGehee a utility man. If he doesn’t, shop Gamel around the trade deadline.
"my goodness"
So what are you using to acquire pitching?
I don’t think that scenario is the best way to maximize this team. So are you going to trade another MLB regular and weaken the rest of the team? That’s the safe way to go but then maybe you’re stuck with a crappy pitching staff again.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
but are other GMs going to want
a 26-yr-old rookie who is first putting up good numbers now? Its not like we’re going to get Tommy Hanson for a package of Hardy/McGehee.
"my goodness"
by BrewHaHeather on Oct 7, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well we're not getting it for Hart and Hardy either, or really any other package of position players
This way we at least have a quality starter anywhere. And I’m not expecting them to go out and get an ace. We’ll have to see what they go for. Getting a guy like Sheets, Bedard, or Harden along with the best pitcher McGehee and Hardy can get would make this a very good team.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
agreed
My original comment was pretty much the sentimental side of me talking, not my baseball-smarts talking.
"my goodness"
by BrewHaHeather on Oct 7, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
This is exactly how I would like the offseason to go.
I wouldn’t mind seeing them tack on another middle of the road FA for depth, and include Parra with McG and Hardy to bring in a higher quality pitcher if available.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I know this is all speculative
So…if you were the GM, what would you go after for McGehee/Hardy?
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
It's tough
I think the Twins could work. Slowey, Liriano… I guess Blackburn though I wouldn’t do that 2/1.
I’m gonna go look at some rosters. If you’re wondering why I’m so active on here tonight, I’m pretty dang sick so just sitting here with the laptop.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
I forgot Baker, too
If we could snag Baker somehow that would be nice.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
My gut
says that the Twins don’t want to part with Slowey. I’m trying to temper my own expectations, too, but it seems like Hardy and Gamel for Slowey is an overpayment, too. That’s just initial reaction on my part though.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh
I realize we’re talking Hardy/McGehee. Which actually makes me feel a little better about that trade for Slowey. But I guess I just don’t know if the Twins would want to part with either of Slowey or Baker.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
John Maine would be a nice pickup, too
That would have to be a totally different deal though
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
These are not guys I would offer that package for, on the high and low side
The idea is that these could be targets:
Brian Bannister
Jonathan Sanchez
Kenshin Kakawami
Ervin Santana
Max Scherzer
Paul Maholm
Dustin McGowan
Shaun Marcum
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Hmmm
Here would be my rank order in ‘want’:
- Max Scherzer
- Ervin Santana
- Jonathan Sanchez
- Shaun Marcum (but how’s the arm?)
- Dustin McGowan (arm, here, too)
- Paul Maholm
- Brian Bannister
- Kenshin Kawakami
Quick and dirty:
I think Scherzer is untouchable, and while there’s been rumblings that the D’Backs will shop Drew, he’s still their starting SS. I could see Reynolds to 1B though.
With Lackey probably leaving in FA, I’m not sure they part with anyone in the rotation, even though they’ve got a hole at 3B, and some mediocre SS.
Sanchez I think will be over-valued this season, and may not be able to be had even for Hardy/Gamel. Reference point on this: Tim Dierkes said in his online chat yesterday that he though Dan Uggla and Jeremy Hermida for Sanchez wasn’t enough. Obviously he’s not a GM, just sayin’.
Marcum/McGowan: big factor is their injuries. Can they pitch back to form? Is it overpaying to send Hardy/McGehee for one of them considering the riskiness?
Maholm: I’ve always been a little ‘meh’ on him. I guess I wouldn’t object too much, although the Pirates seem to want to horde prospects for MLB talent.
Bannister: If they’d do Hardy for Bannister 1 for 1 I’d be OK with it, but I think both is too much.
Kawakami: I just don’t see a fit. Flashing back to Tomo Ohka.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
LAA's "hole"
That hole at 3B, otherwise known as Chone Figgins?
That’s not a hole, brother, that’s like 6 WAR.
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
Right, and those 6 wins will be playing for another team
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with just about everything
I’d probably slide Bannister up above Maholm, but that’s about it. Maybe the fact that he understands baseball adds value to him, but he basically did a study and determined that he should throw his cutter more often because it gets ground balls and strikeouts, and he can control it. He threw it more and put up a 4.14 FIP and 4.3ish tRA.
Scherzer and Santana are both really aggressive targets we probably couldn’t get. I like the idea of getting McGowan or Marcum and then signing a Harden, Sheets, or Bedard.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
i love Harden/Bedard angle.
what’s the take on Randy Wolf?
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
That would be an option but I think he might get a decent, multi-year deal.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
my take is
he’s better than what we have. Try to sign him.
"my goodness"
by BrewHaHeather on Oct 7, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow
So I replied to myself instead of you re: Wolf.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Lot of risk
with McGowan/Marcum and any of those FA pitchers. But the upside is pretty tremendous.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a type A
Which means the Brewers’ 2nd round pick would be gone. Don’t know if The Mustache and Bruce Seid would feel good about that.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
ah yes.
you are very self-referential, you elitist dog. ;-)
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
Haha
whoops!
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
If they get Sheets I'd probably do a cartwheel
He’s gonna be cheap and on a short-term deal.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
just as long as
sheets doesn’t do one with you. he’d be out for the season again.
hell, you doing a cartwheel would probably make him out for the season again.
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
At BF.net
A guy had an idea to get Sonnanstine and Fernando Perez from the Rays. There’s some rotation depth and a righty center fielder if they have to start the year with Gerut in center.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
I'm still holding out hope
that the D’Backs decline the option on Webb. THAT’S the kind of Risk/Reward I’d like to see!
Then again, most teams would.
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I would put Maholm at number two behind Scherzer
Give the guy some credit, he’s going to be an ace soon; I’d love to plug him into our rotation
by Donald Driver on Oct 7, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
To me it depends
As does a lot of what will go on this offseason, on whether or not the Brewers are committed to keeping Prince Fielder beyond his current contract.
If Fielder is gone in a year or two, then I wholeheartedly support trading Gamel for pitching that can help the team immediately (even though, obviously, McGehee was overperforming this year). Gamel’s going to be way better down the road, most likely, but if Fielder leaves I don’t see the franchise competing for a long while.
Preferably, if Fielder is in the long-term plans for the Brewers, then you have no choice but to trade McGehee for what you can get from him. Gamel/Escobar/Weeks/Fielder would be the infield for the foreseeable future.
As Jordan commented above, I think a McGehee/Hardy package could net a decent return.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
How about moving McGehee to 2B and trading Weeks?
I haven’t looked at Case of base’s defense at 2B yet..
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
why?
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
It's not something I would advocate, but I had just read the list of options
and thought it wasn’t all together unreasonable. The only way we would think about it is if teams specifically asked about Weeks.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I think the better approach to the trading situation
would be find a team desperate for a SS and a team in need of a 3B/utility player that way you’re maximizing you’re return. Unless there’s a team out there with a #1/#2 pitcher they’re willing to part with for the combination of the two
"Cubs fans boo again – 99% of these people can’t see the plate." -Ueck
trade them both
sign Branyan.
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
This I could get behind.
I’m assuming you’re planning on pitching Branyan, right?
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
yes
and SS on the 4 other days. just like in high school.
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
Why pitching?
I understand the Brewers are poor in the starting rotation and the best they’ll do on the FA market is Doug Davis, but are they really going to get a better pitcher than DD through a trade? I’d love to get quality starting pitching for Hardy and McGemel, but it feels like those deals don’t really seem to come around for anyone these days. Who’s willing to give up good starting pitching for anything?
Why isn’t there talk of filling the hole in center or catcher with Hardy and McGemel? Are those trade markets dead flat right now? If the best trade value is for a CF or C, why not pull the trigger on that trade and fill that hole?
Would anyone make any moves before Gamel has a chance to get a few ABs in winter ball, anyway?
Goddamn booklearned people are so much better at putting this stuff into print than me
I agree 100% with red Jordan
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take two paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Oct 7, 2009 9:51 PM CDT reply actions
trade fielder!
fielder alone could net a good pitcher, then gamel can move to 1B (a much easier defensive position), mcgehee stays at 3B…
McGehee's trade value
By putting McG’s trade value anywhere close to Gamel’s, we are seriously overestimating his value.
To grossly oversimplify, there are two types of GM decision-makers:
(a) those who know a lot about stats
(b) those who don’t, and focus on “talent”/scouting reports
[again, gross oversimplification. every GM is at least reading reports by somebody from the other camp
GMs in (a) know better than to give up much of anything for someone who had a good 26yo rookie season. I would guess the best we could do would be a Bish prospect with a 4th-starter upside … maybe Daniel McCutchen.
GMs in (b) all didn’t claim Casey on waivers last winter. Yes, they saw him come through this year, but one good year at age 26 (scouting guys know about age, too) doesn’t change their opinion of somebody who they didn’t use to think was projectable. Here, we might get a similar type of player, a late-blooming back-rotation guy.
But the story is different with Gamel. Some GMs in (a) would get scared off by Gamel’s lack of production in the bigs, his atrocious errors in the minors, or his streakiness in the minors. But others are going to see a major talent who needs playing time and will hit, hit, hit.
Some GMs in (b) are going to have the same issues, but these GMs look at players with the same eyes that got Gamel in the top 2 or 3 of every offseason prospect list less than a year ago.
We’ll probably never know, but I’d bet a lot of money that the return for Gamel would be greater than the return for McGehee, and it won’t even be close.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Oct 7, 2009 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Full agreement
I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."
~Jeff Sackmann
by Charlie Marlow on Oct 7, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I definitely agree that Gamel has plenty more value than McGehee
I wouldn’t expect too much back for McGehee alone. But I’m not confident enough in McGehee’s ability to play well that I would be able to trade Gamel. And my points about selling high still apply. I think it’s pretty obvious that Gamel has a ton more value, but this isn’t the best return we’d be able to get for Gamel… it is the best return we could get for McGehee.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Mat Gamel
What about working out something with the Braves. Chipper is not getting any younger and even talked about retirement we currently don’t have any third base prospects. Who might you all be interested in.
Option 3
For me. I agree that Gamel is the one you keep for the long run at 3B, and that McGehee’s value is never going to be higher.
McGehee’s value is the big question right now, as is Hardy’s. I posed a question earlier in the year over at BtB about McGehee’s value since he was doing so well, above anyones expectations.
Packaging Hardy and McGehee works for a few teams that have a weak left side of the infield. The Orioles and Mariners come to mind immediately.
The O’s have a ton of prospects on hand in the pitching department, but I dont think they would offer up a top guy for either of Hardy/McGhee (they definitely would for Fielder) and the M’s could offer up a package involving maybe Brandon Morrow, a guy like Phillipe Aumont, and or Greg Halman for those guys. Convert both Morrow and Aumont back to starters and you have somethign there.
In the end though, I agree with the statement made earlier that DM does not tend to sell on the high side, and the team is going to deal away Gamel, be stuck with McGehee (ala Bill Hall) and this move will wind up being his downfall and beginning of the end of his career in Milwaukee.
A Gamel/Hardy deal to the M’s or Red Sox probably doesnt get them Buchholz, but it could get a very nice package in return that may not help in 2010, but help down the road a bit.
Another trade target...
might be Fausto Carmona. There’s been a good track record of reclamation-project pitchers going from the AL to the NL recently (Javier Vasquez, Smoltz come to mind). The Indians would be willing to trade his salary and have liked our prospects before. He’s got great stuff but fell off a cliff with confidence/control issues. He needs a change of scenery and a good pitching coach. And he’d come a lot cheaper than Ervin Santana.
Gamel or McGehee?
No brainer. Casey can play first, second, or third. If needed he probably could play outfield too. But with Rickie’s bad wrist, and if Lopez is back, McGehee provides insurance all around. It could mean moving Hardy to third or second. Gamel is the odd man out. Power hitter with strikeout capability at third base. I know a team like boston or texas would love to have this guy.
Johnny Knows
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Cincinnati
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Houston
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Milwaukee
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
St. Louis
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 7:02 PM CST)
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