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Wednesday's Frosty Mug

Everyone's talking about John Lackey today. Should they be?

Ed Andrieski - AP

Everyone's talking about John Lackey today. Should they be?

Some things to read while launching a third party.

Thanks to Mark for filling in yesterday while I laid on the couch and drifted in and out of consciousness. My apologies for the late Mug today - I had hoped to be off my pain meds by now, but no such luck, so I'm having a hard time writing coherently. Also, as I was gathering news this morning, a delivery truck showed up with a whole room full of furniture from IKEA.

Before we go any further, you may want to just give up and find a new team or a new sport. Dave Begel of OnMilwaukee.com wants to make sure you know the Brewers are never going to compete (h/t BBTF). So abandon all hope, ye who remain here.

Meanwhile, for those of us who haven't jumped off a bridge, it's the time of year where we spend lots of time discussing players who may or may not even consider becoming a Brewer. Take John Lackey, for example.
  • Jorge Says No! wonders if the Brewers should be interested in signing him.
  • In-Between Hops has a visual representation of reasons they shouldn't.
  • When Buster Olney said the Brewers may have interest in Lackey, he also mentioned the Mariners as a candidate, prompting Lookout Landing to rip apart the logic involved in that statement.
  • Ken Rosenthal says the Angels are still interested in Lackey, too.
  • If/When Doug Melvin gets outbid for Lackey, Fire Doug Melvin has a statement for him to read. Melvin is already using similar language to complain about the draft.
There's also a flurry of discussion on catchers: I'm planning on writing something more in-depth on Lucroy once my brain gets a little less fuzzy. In the meantime, here's a bunch of notes on Mike Cameron, too: A fair number of people are treating it as a foregone conclusion that Craig Counsell will either return to the Brewers next season or retire, but that may not be the case. Adam McCalvy thinks Counsell's surprising 2009 season should net him several offers, and may drive up the price for Whitefish Boy.

MLB Daily Dish has predictions for free agents #11-20 in their rankings, and thinks Rich Harden (ranked #12) may end up with the Brewers. They also have Felipe Lopez (ranked #14) signing with the Cubs.

Speaking of oft-injured pitchers who could get a phone call from Doug Melvin, FanHuddle thinks the Brewers could sign Brad Penny.

And, of course, as the Brewers look to spend their free agent dollars this offseason, one massive mistake overshadows all other deals: Jorge Says No! has a look at the logic and failure of the Jeff Suppan deal.

Finally, there's some continued reaction to the J.J. Hardy-Carlos Gomez deal:
  • Aaron Gleeman has a scouting report on Gomez from his former manager, Ron Gardenhire.
  • Real GM Baseball gave the Twins an A- for the deal, and the Brewers a C+.
On Monday, I mentioned having written a scouting report on Hardy for Nick Nelson of Nick's Twins Blog. In return, I asked for his scouting report on Gomez. Here it is:
"When it became clear that the Twins were working to move Johan Santana during the 2007-08 offseason, fans geared up for a marquis package in return. After all, Santana was arguably the best starting pitcher in baseball; a two-time Cy Young Award winner with devastating stuff and command from the left side who still hadn't yet turned 29. What the Twins got was a package from the Mets that included three promising pitchers but was headlined by Carlos Gomez, a raw 22-year-old center fielder who general manager Bill Smith envisioned as a future anchor in the lineup.

Because of the circumstances surrounding his acquisition, Gomez became saddled with massive expectations amongst the Minnesota fan base. This might have been his undoing. By the time the Twins sent him to the Brewers for J.J. Hardy last week, a sizable portion of local fans was more than ready to see Gomez go. His lack of progress at the plate and his repeated mental lapses on the field -- one of which was on display during the ALDS when he cost the Twins a crucial run by overrunning second base in New York -- became too much for a lot of folks to tolerate.

As a person who greatly values defense and appreciates players who display enthusiasm and emotion on the field, I was always a big fan of Gomez and I'm sorry to see him go. There's no doubt that he was failing to make meaningful strides on the cognitive end, but his physical tools are undeniable and he was at least making slight adjustments at the plate this past season, with a decreased strikeout rate and increased walk rate. Granted, he was still poor in both those areas and his overall hitting numbers dropped regardless, but it's something to keep in mind, especially considering that he's still only 24 years old.

As far as defense goes, get ready for a treat. I know Mike Cameron did some nice things for the Brewers, but Gomez is better. I watched the great Torii Hunter in center field regularly for about a decade, and can confidently say that Gomez gets to balls that Hunter in his prime never would have dreamed of reaching. Even though he occasionally makes bad reads, Gomez can very quickly make up for a missed first step and has closing speed on line drives and fly balls like I've never seen before. He's an exquisite defensive center fielder and will make any fly ball heavy pitchers on the Brewers staff very happy.

That tremendous defensive proficiency means that Gomez doesn't have to progress all that much offensively in order to transform into a highly valuable player. While he has failed to post even a .300 OBP during his three major-league seasons thus far, Gomez posted a .339 OBP in the minors despite being young for every level and he may benefit from a return to the National League. His dreadful lack of discipline at the plate may prevent him from ever taking the next step and becoming an adequate offensive contributor, but I could certainly see him turning a corner and becoming a Franklin Gutierrez type player. Even if he doesn't, his defense makes him a worthwhile starter in center field and at worst he'll settle in as a quality fourth outfielder and pinch-running option.

For all the negatives that have surrounded Gomez's tenure in Minnesota, my lasting memory of him will not be the baserunning muff against the Yankees or one of the hundreds of outside breaking balls whiffed on for strike three. It will be the 12th inning of this season's Game 163 against the Tigers, when Alexi Casilla sneaked a grounder between second and first to drive in Gomez with the winning run. Gomez came sprinting home, arms outstretched like the wings of an airplane, and dove across home plate despite the fact that the play was nowhere near close. After recording the game-winning, playoff-clinching run, Gomez lept into the air with the excitement of a kid in little league. He may not be the brightest guy in the world, but Gomez plays the game with a lot of heart and he absolutely has his strengths.

Appreciate Gomez for what he is, and you'll love having him on your team. Just try to be patient with the mental mistakes and often clueless offensive approach."
Meanwhile, NL Gold Glove winners are expected to be announced today, and Stan Musial's Stance is projecting J.J. Hardy as the winner at shortstop. It seems unlikely, but I suppose it's possible.

Over 1000 innings and nearly 1000 appearances into his career, we're still trying to figure out how exactly Trevor Hoffman has managed to be so successful. Dave Allen of FanGraphs has a look at one of Hoffman's strengths: pinpoint control that allows him to keep the ball out of power zones to left-handed hitters.

Hitting during day games at Miller Park might get a little easier next season: The team has removed the ivy in the center field batters' eye and replaced it with glare-reducing black paint. They're also adding some black mesh around the scoreboard.

In the minors:
  • Jonathan Lucroy, Zach Braddock and (to a lesser extent) Lorenzo Cain are having pretty nice seasons in the AFL, and the Peoria Javelinas are 16-8, the best record in the AFL. They lead their division by five games with eight to play. For more on their recent performances, check out today's Fall/Winter League Update.
  • FanGraphs has the Brewers' minor league season in review, with notes on one Brewer minor league graduate and four more prospects.
  • Project Prospect ranked Caleb Gindl as the 12th best corner outfield prospect in all of baseball.
  • Plunk Everyone noted that Adam Heether and Brendan Katin are still among the Venezuelan Winter League leaders in HBP. Heether hasn't appeared in a game since November 1, and I'm still not sure why.
Around baseball:

Blue Jays: Claimed utilityman Mike McCoy off waivers from the Rockies.
Orioles: Claimed pitcher Armando Gabino off waivers from the Twins.
Rays: Exercised Carl Crawford's option for 2010, declined options on catcher Gregg Zaun and Brian Shouse, and claimed pitcher Ramon Ramirez off waivers from the Reds.
Red Sox:Shortstop Nick Green and outfielder Joey Gathright both rejected outright assignments and will become free agents.
Reds: Outfielder Darnell McDonald rejected an outright assignment to the minors and will become a free agent.

If you're looking to sign Yorvit Torrealba to a deal this offseason (perhaps as a replacement for Jason Kendall), the baseline has been set: After the Rockies declined his $4 million option for next season, they reportedly offered him $4.5 million for two seasons, and he turned it down. I think the Brewers could easily beat that, and might welcome a 2 year$6-7 million deal for him. Brian McTaggart has a look at other available catchers.

Meanwhile, the Reds are reportedly looking to cut payroll into the $65-70 million range, which could be a challenge considering they owe $66 million to ten players for 2010. So, if you have a Red you're looking to acquire, you should get on the phone.

Looking for another buy-low pitching candidate? The Royals are reportedly monitoring the rehab of Runelvys Hernandez, who has pitched just four major league games since 2006.

We use WAR a lot to discuss the value of players, but are there cases where we're misusing it? Jeremy Greenhouse of The Hardball Times looks at misuses of the stat. We've definitely been guilty of some in the comments here.

I shuddered while reading this note: Garrett Broshuis, a teammate of Giants prospect and accused murderer Angel Villalona, has a look at the circumstances surrounding Villalona's release from prison, which included a roughly $50,000 payment to the victim's family and their decision to ask for charges to be dropped.

On a happier note, Brewerfan.net has an interview with former Brewer Junior Spivey, who remains a Brewer fan long after moving on from the organization.

A couple of cool notes from the SBN Network: I don't have any Brewer related birthdays today, so we'll have to settle for wishing a happy birthday to UW-Stevens Point alum Scott May, who appeared in five major league games and turns 48 today.

Oh, and I have a new career goal: Leveraging BCB's Twitter (@BrewCrewBall) to get a CBS TV deal.

Drink up.

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Comments

Display:

Boy, I sure am glad In Between Hops put a Wins graph up..

While we’re at it, let’s see how much Yovani Gallardo improved last year by comparing his win total to 2008.

An argument could be made here that Lackey is too much of an injury risk to take on, but that’s not the argument IBH is trying to make.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 10:48 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

If the Brewers

Can get Lackey at a reasonable to not too costly deal (whatever that may be….) do it…
I love his competitiveness*, demonstrated by nearly losing it when Mike Scocia took him out of the game when he was pitching a shut out saying “no…. This one is mine.”

Gooooo-mez!

by Drew C on Nov 11, 2009 11:01 AM CST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

you could just make Gooooo-mez! your sig.

Then you don’t have to type it at the end of every post.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Today's Mug, btw

2075 words. Not bad for a day where I can’t write.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 11:06 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is that including the (approximately) 725 words ...

that the dude from the Twins blog wrote? WORD COUNT THIEF.

Kidding. Hope you feel better soon.

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.

Only 1350 of those words are mine. And it only took me four hours and 15 minutes to put them together.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not one to cast stones.

It took me twice as long to put together a 1000-word Mug.

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Every time i've had to take vicotin, I've wanted to talk to EVERYONE

I’m not surprised it was a long mug. Worth the wait!

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I think it's definitely increased my friendliness level

But my mouth is all swollen up and my breath is terrible, so I’m not sure the people around me are enjoying it.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's weird

It always made me just sleep. I was on a lot of pain meds prior to back surgery a few years back, is seemed to me if you had pain you got none of the high from the drug, just the relief. Yet as soon as the pain went away you felt the high. It just made me super relaxed and sleepy.

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm on Aleve and Vicodin

And I’m not noticing any relief from the Vicodin at all, but when the Aleve wears off I can immediately start to feel the swelling.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Call the doc!

Ask for more drugs! Use the words “I can’t sleep due to the pain”. I used that when I had back problems and I went from Vicodin to the good stuff and finally had relief.

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

me too

I stupidly went to work the day after I had my wisdom teeth removed and had a sudden midday decision to pill up as the pain was so irritating. There is absolutely nothing like falling asleep in the middle of a sales call. No, caffeine didn’t help.

by morineko on Nov 11, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lucky people.

Every time I have been given vicodin or one of its sister drugs I get a blazing headache and weep violently. Kind of like what will happen if we re-up Kendall.

by Braunstalker on Nov 11, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's true

but only if you count the 900 random characters from when your head hit the keyboard and you don’t remember it happening, because you were too busy cleaning up all of the drool. I remember Vicotin. Precious, precious Vicotin.

by ecocd on Nov 11, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heethens
Heether hasn’t appeared in a game since November 1, and I’m still not sure why.

I thought we figured out the other day that he hasn’t played lately because he’s too hairy.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow! I didn't even catch this...

From the Jorge says no article. Re: Mevlins comments on Soup

This guy has more wins than Barry Zito over the last three years," said Melvin, referring to the consensus No. 1 free-agent pitcher on the market. “There’s more to it than win totals, but that says something. He has 44 wins over the last three years and he has won some big games.”

Seriously? Wins again? I thought baseball GMs are supposed to understand what stats mean something and which ones are useless? Since he echoed the same thing about Looper.. I wonder if it’s just a matter of time before we extend him. (Since Sunday is his deadline)

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 11:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

"There's more to it than wins ..."

Yes, there is. In fact, there’s EVERYTHING else.

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But he takes the ball every five days!

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Nov 11, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What's he going to say? "Signing Suppan was a mistake"?

Jeez. He has to dig for positive things to say about his players. I think he knows that wins don’t mean much, but hell, what else positive is he going to say about Suppan?

by Mykenk on Nov 11, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just leave it at something hopelessly bland like:

“He’s pitched well for us in some big games.”

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't matter what he says...

It was a big mistake. But to then to say “Look it’s ok. He wins games” as an excuse is just about as lame as announcing that we’ll resign Kendall because he calls a good game.

Beyond being wrapped up in the emotion of “That’s a big game pitcher we need him” and then taking the time to look at his numbers should have turned him away from such a massive deal. If we don’t have Soup maybe we had to go to a crappier option and maybe suffered for a year till the FA market opened up, yet we wouldn’t be in the hole of debt called Suppan these last few years and could do things with the salary.

I’m just tired of the really stupid reasons why we are starting players. They aren’t really based on tangible results on the field but some weird abstract.

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it was bad at the time

and it didn’t get any better. i recall the brewers offering significantly more than other teams, which is my main point of contention. (yes, he eats innings, so paying him as a 3 or 4 wouldn’t have been as bad.) i did some quick googling and came up with these sources, which i found interesting (i assume one of them is not the original posting location.
MLBTR
random site

the thing that stuck in my head (even back then) was that the cardinals were asking jeff suppan to come back, but at a discount. then, the brewers doubled his salary – for four years. looking back, this is slightly justified by gil meche’s contract with the royals (which seemed odd at the time), but there should be a walk away point, no?

anyway, rehashing doesn’t do much good. i just look forward to the brewers buying out their option in about a year.

by Capt Science on Nov 11, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it's weird.

I kind of like Meche (but not for the price). I have a few more ideas for FDM.com content exploring these very ideas you mentioned. And really the polar shift from good to durable. And what’s scary is what Tom H just tweeted.

Don’t expect good pitching, expect those that can take the ball every 5 days.

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I had to go look

of all the things he could ask Scott Boras, he asks about Jarrod Washburn? Ugh. Nothing about any of his other clients who are already with the team? ;)

by morineko on Nov 11, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure the comment in question

Was made when Suppan was signed, not recently.

In other words, he made a crappy signing and then immediately promoted it by using wins.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Between Suppan and Zito...

I’m glad the Brewers took Suppan.

by Yar Nivek on Nov 11, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

is that the quote from a few years ago when they signed him?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Phillies

The Phillies are talking about bringing in Chone Figgins. Seriously, when do they stop getting better?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 11:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

When DM takes over as GM!

Apparently I’m bitter this morning.

by SgtClueLs on Nov 11, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, "this morning"

measured in geographic time. ;)
And sgt is not the most bitter poster I see, not by a long shot.

You've got a couple screws missin' up in your toolbox, if you think that you'll stop this man from hittin' moonshots.

by hawing on Nov 11, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was pretty snarky!

Well done!

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Nov 11, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hamels

Could he be on his way out in Philly?

He’s still a pretty good pitcher, had a down year in counting stats but was almost All Star level.

He’s projected for a couple more 3.5 Win seasons, coupled with his salary translates to about $21 to $23 million in surplus value.

They need a 3B, dont need another lefty in that lineup. I wonder if they would take 5 years of McGehee straight up for Hamels? And if not, what would it take? 3 of the prospects I mentioned in yesterdays Shoppach post, along with McGehee? They could have Jeffress as well and then McGehee and 2 C+ guys like Scarpetta or Peralta, something like that.

by backtocali on Nov 11, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I find it unlikely Philly would ship him off

Even given his rough season and comments during the series.

That said, if he is available, I would absolutely love for the Crew to pick him up. I would totally support a McGehee-for-Hamels trade, but that’s probably wishful thinking.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Nov 11, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry Nick Nelson, we don't have time for this:
Appreciate Gomez for what he is, and you’ll love having him on your team. Just try to be patient with the mental mistakes and often clueless offensive approach.

We’re trying to win a division in the next two years.

"I've had the time of my afterlife." --Patrick Swayze

by baumann on Nov 11, 2009 11:39 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.
Appreciate Braun for what he is, and you’ll love having him on your team. Just try to be patient with the mental mistakes and often clueless defensive approach.

by Mykenk on Nov 11, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was about to write the same thing ...

about Hart (while leaving in the original “clueless offensive approach” line).

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't be comparing

Braun to Gomez. Come on. Appreciating Braun on my team means appreciating a 5-to-6-Win player, no matter how much he’s pondering Remetees in LF.

That said, I’m with Rubie Q on the Corey Hart thing . . .

"I've had the time of my afterlife." --Patrick Swayze

by baumann on Nov 11, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not really a comparison.

Just saying that even the best players have things that you need to be patient with, so why are you ripping Gomez for his?

by Mykenk on Nov 11, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because Gomez's strengths aren't big enough to overcome his weaknesses.

If you’re driving a nice car with bad gas mileage, you tolerate the poor gas mileage because other features make up for it.

But, if you’re driving a 1980 Chevy Celebrity…

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair point.

I mean, statistics wise, I think they do (he had a positive WAR, right?), but I know what you’re saying.

by Mykenk on Nov 11, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That was some mighty fine logic, right there.

Let’s break it down:

The Yankees play by a different set of rules, in terms of payroll.

The Yankees play in the American League.

The Brewers play in the National League.

With the exception of a few weeks in May and June (and the World Series), teams from the respective Leagues do not play each other.

Therefore, the Brewers will not make the playoffs in the National League next year, or the year after, and so on.

by Rubie Q on Nov 11, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in more Hot Rumor Action (about other bad pitchers)

Supposedly Chien-Ming Wang is a candidate for being non-tendered. If he can come back from the injury (and if Peterson can get him to learn another pitch) it may be worth a try, and Wang comes with his own giant revenue-producing fanbase in Taiwan. On the other hand, I’d rather have Sheets back. If only there wasn’t a giant burning bridge between him and the Brewers….

by morineko on Nov 11, 2009 12:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Do we want another Parra?

I thin Peterson will have his hands full with getting Parra to pitch up to his potential again. If the Brewers had 4 stable starters (stable, not necessarily great) and were looking for a high-upside 5th starter, I’d say Wang is a good idea. I don’t think he’s a good fit for the Brewers rotation this season, though.

by ecocd on Nov 11, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I only feel that it is my duty

to mention and give a half-baked evaluation to every scrapheap pitcher that the Brewers may have an interest in getting this offseason. This does not mean that I endorse this line of action. (I should probably also evaluate for the sort of crappy ideas that DM thinks are good, and this would probably be one of them if Wang wasn’t an ex-Yankee. I’m at the point where that Cameron for Cabrera and Igawa rumor from last spring sounds like a fabulous idea in retrospect.)

by morineko on Nov 11, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We dont need another Parra

but we could use our first Wang

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Nov 11, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Kendall

I emailed Doug Miller, who wrote this story about FA catchers, and said,

It’s likely that Kendall, who will turn 36 next June, will re-up with Milwaukee.

Here is what I asked:

Hi Doug,
 
I have a question regarding the article you wrote on free agent catchers last week. When you get to Jason Kendall, you say, “It’s likely that Kendall, who will turn 36 next June, will re-up with Milwaukee.”
 
Is this information you’ve gathered from sources, or is it just speculation? I don’t see what incentive the Brewers would have in bringing him back without a VERY significant pay cut, as it would most certainly come in lieu of Starting Pitching.

And his response,

It’s kind of the general mood around the Brewers right now, according to our Brewers reporter, and yes, it would probably entail a pay cut.
 
Thanks for reading.

I don’t think we really have to worry about this happening. I don’t want to say it’s blind speculation, like I was hoping for in the original fanpost, but I think the statement that Kendall will likely re-up with the Brewers is based on some older information, perhaps an old report that Kendall wants to be a Brewer til he’s 40. It should be treated as such, rather than the horrible breaking news that some of us were thinking it could be.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 12:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

what's really going to happen with Kendall

I could see Doug letting Kendall go if he thinks he has a veteran upgrade. I mean, Damian Miller wanted to re-up but Melvin opted for (what he mistakenly hoped was at least the Oakland version of) Kendall.

Most likely the situation plays out (a la Craig Counsell a year ago) like this –

Doug tells Kendall’s agents that he’d like to have him back because Jason [has pictures that Doug wouldn’t want circulating on the internet] is good handling the pitchers. But we can’t pay you $5 million Jason because we’re hoping to get you some pitchers to handle. He’s not offered arby but Doug tells him he’ll get to catch, alongside one of the prospects, 60 to 100 games depending on how much the kid (presumably Lucroy) can handle. He offers $1.5 million or so plus playing time incentives. While Jason shops himself for a better offer Melvin courts Torrealba or some other mildly acceptable placeholder. The key question is whether Doug can cut a deal for a new catcher faster than Jason realizes the Indy leagues aren’t paying $1 million plus.

I don’t see Rivera on the opening day roster as I think management wants a prospect and a gritty veteran. And they don’t seem to view him that way.

by infield fly on Nov 11, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect Kendall will get a paycut

with playing options….. so he will be a “good value” at 1.5M until he catches his 150th game (which he will) and then cost us $5M

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Nov 11, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Torrealba...

Do the Brewers seriously pursue him?

I personally like him… But correct me if I’m wrong, he’s not good at throwing runners out I believe…

Gooooo-mez!

by Drew C on Nov 11, 2009 1:09 PM CST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Via Ken Rosenthal:

“Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he’s made clear to other GMs that he’s not listening to offers for first baseman Prince Fielder this offseason.

Fielder is due to become a free agent after the 2011 season. Melvin said he’d like to pursue a long-term extension with Fielder before Opening Day."

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 11, 2009 1:57 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

What are the chances that Boras will let Fielder even consider a long-term deal?

Doesn’t Boras make sure his clients go to Free Agency to make sure they sign for the biggest contract possible for the player and for himself?

by Saltire on Nov 11, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Boras has some leverage, certainly

But Prince Fielder can also tell him to go $%^& himself if Fielder doesn’t feel like he’s pursuing his best interest.

So if I managed the Brewer front office, I’d ask to negotiate directly with the big guy.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Might be worth a try, but I can't imagine it would work.

As noted here before by Sackmann, it’s not just the agent and the player at work here either. Big name guys like Fielder are under a lot of pressure to get the biggest deal they can because it helps drag up the salaries for the little guy.

Anyway, barring a change of heart, you don’t go get Boras as your agent if you’re planning on running your own negotiations or settling for less than the max. I think it’s pretty clear that Fielder is motivated by lots of things, but that one of the big ones is a desire to make large enough amounts of cash that never finds himself in a situation like the one his father created.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 11, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does Fielder strike you as a guy who cares what anyone else thinks about what he wants?

I’m sure the union is free to make their case to him, but I’d say he’s more than likely going to pursue what he wants, regardless of what they want.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Nov 11, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He seems like the kind of guy willing to go against the grain....

… but not if his interests are partially aligned. It’s all speculation, but let’s say he wants to stay in Milwaukee and he also wants to make a ton of cash. He can make a lot in Milwaukee, but he knows he can make more (plus even more in endorsements) if he goes elsewhere. If those two competing interests are even close to being in balance, I think the pressure from the agent he appears to trust and the union, and his friends in the league, and his pride makes him take the deal that’s at or close to his maximum value.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 11, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

argh...

… that should read “but not if his interests are partially aligned with the direction those pressuring him want him to go”, or something less wordy that means the same thing.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 11, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's probably true for free agents

But if the Brewers offer Fielder a sufficiently huge extension this winter, I imagine it would be hard to turn it down.

(Assuming it’s competitive to what he expects he could make two years from now, and assuming he wants to stay in Milwaukee)

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 11, 2009 8:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're probably right that this is their only real chance...

… simply because they can get him the cash significantly sooner than other teams can. If that’s what KL was getting at, then I missed his point. Sorry about that.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 11, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I don't see that happening

Regardless of who a player’s agent is, they’re not hired to sit on the sidelines. I wouldn’t negotiate without someone who knows the nitty-gritty details of how contracts really work.

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 11, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless they're named Bus Cook...

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 11, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers got a rational deal on his arbitration years

Last year, when Fielder signed a contract to cover his next 2 years of arbitration, the Brewers negotiated a fair price with Boras for his services and Fielder was happy. Boras will certainly have leverage in talks concerning long-term deals due to Fielder’s impending-ish free agency, but I take it as a positive that the Brewers worked out a deal once without any contention or hand-wringing on either side.

by ecocd on Nov 11, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But that's because the arbitration process pushes everyone towards the middle...

… it generates significant raises for bad ballplayers who get playing time simply because they’re so far below the league average. For guys like Fielder and Howard a couple of years ago, it generates massive raises, but the outcomes are still way less than they would be on the open market. Fielder and Boras settled for what they got because they knew they were unlikely to do any better in arbitration, not because that was all the money they wanted.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 12, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it had to do with thinking it was as good as they would have done in arby

I think it had more to do with having 2 years of guaranteed money for 2 years in case of an injury.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 12, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why can't it be both?

They didn’t even need to do research to know what Howard got in his arbitration hearings, which is probably as comparable to Fielder as possible, and I think its unlikely that agents and the union don’t make sure the players are informed of the outcomes of various arbitration hearings so that they can make intelligent demands and intelligent decisions on what dollar figure to accept in lieu of a hearing. The contract Fielder signed (if memory serves) got him similar numbers to Howard’s arbitration award and I don’t believe that’s a coincidence. And we all know he would have made more than that if he was a free agent.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 12, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pitching

ive been reading all these traderumors and free agent rumors and ive been seeing the brewers name come up a lot with jarrod washburn, randy wolfe, doug davis, and john lackey. When i see washburn, wolfe, and davis i think our rotation is full of guys like that. Guys that dont throw hard and rely on location and movement. and obviosly that is not working see as how the brewers had one of the worst starting rotations in the mlb next year. I strongly beleive that melvin needs to sign lackey and that would give this team a huge boost with lackey and yo 1 and 2 in the rotation would be awsome

by BenSheets15 on Nov 11, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

pitching

One of the worst rotations in the mlb last year not next year

by BenSheets15 on Nov 11, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

,

Don’t be a negative Nancy…. (whaaaa-whaaaa…)

by Drew C on Nov 11, 2009 2:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Goooooooooo-mez

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right, it's not the approach that's the problem,

so much as the pitcher’s not being that good at the approach.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

Its nice to see that


 “Even if he doesn’t, his defense makes him a worthwhile starter in center field and at worst he’ll settle in as a quality fourth outfielder and pinch-running option.”

That’s what our biggest trade chip netted.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 11, 2009 4:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Matt Capps would have carried the team into the World Series!!!

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 11, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're on to that?

You love this trade. I hate it. I’ll leave it at that, but your facetiousness is astounding.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 11, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Mat Gamel is our biggest trade chip

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey-oooooo

Via Ken Rosenthal:

"Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he’s made clear to other GMs that he’s not listening to offers for first baseman Prince Fielder this offseason.

Fielder is due to become a free agent after the 2011 season. Melvin said he’d like to pursue a long-term extension with Fielder before Opening Day."

Ryan Braun: He loves it. Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez

by SRB on Nov 11, 2009 1:57 PM CST reply actions 2 recs

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 11, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gallardo, no?

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 11, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you want to be technical

Mykenk’s post below is accurate.

I am of the opinion that Mat Gamel should not be traded.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 11, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bean Stringfellow...

… is the best name ever…

by Mykenk on Nov 11, 2009 7:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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