Let's wait on Jonathan Lucroy

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 12:00 PM CST in Conversation Starters Comment 80 comments

All of a sudden, after two years of sticking with Jason Kendall, the Brewers look like they're ready to make a move behind the plate. Frankly, it's about time. Earlier this week, Doug Melvin told Arn Tellem (who represents Jason Kendall) not to expect a $5 million offer to return to the Brewers next season. That's a lot nicer than what I would have said, but I'm ok with any steps taken to imply Kendall won't be starting 130+ games for the Brewers again next season.

At the same time, Jonathan Lucroy is having a very nice run in the AFL after an impressive season in Huntsville (where he hit .267/.380/.417), and Doug Melvin is starting to speak publicly about the possibility that Lucroy could make the jump directly to the big leagues next season. Melvin has compared Lucroy to Russell Martin, Chris Snyder and Kurt Suzuki, who all made the jump directly from AA to the majors at catcher, and did so with some level of success.

Now, it's possible Melvin is just posturing, as he's been known to do in the past: In January, for example, Melvin said the Brewers were out of money, then signed Braden Looper less than two weeks later. It's entirely possible that Melvin is raising the possibility that he'll go forward with the assets he has in an effort to get Kendall to lower his asking price, at which point the two sides will agree to a deal and I will probably vomit. Any to-do list for this offseason should include the following line: "Do not re-sign Jason Kendall, at any price, for any role."

With that said, I'm not sure Jonathan Lucroy is the answer either, at least not yet: He's 23 years old, but he's had just two full seasons as a professional. Yes, he's posted a .380 career minor league OBP, but he's also never played above AA. And while he is hitting pretty well against elite competition in the Arizona Fall League, we have to be careful not to put too much weight into what happens down there: Lucroy is hitting .366/.364/.585, but the AFL is one of the most hitter friendly places on Earth, with a .281/.357/.441 league average. Also, Lucroy's AFL numbers cover all of 42 plate appearances, so there's a sample size issue.

I know I've ranted against this in similar situations in the past, but service time also needs to be a consideration here. The Brewers have six years with Jonathan Lucroy under their control as a major leaguer. If he's not ready and they bring him up to the big leagues, that's one of those six seasons down the drain. If they wait until they've got more proof he's prepared to compete at this level, they could get six productive seasons out of him.

As good as Lucroy has been in the minors, I don't think you can make a convincing enough case that he'll be an immediately productive major leaguer. He has a low level of experience at the highest levels of the minors, and his most notable successes have been in relatively small sample sizes. I think he'd benefit from a few months or even a full season in AAA, and if I were in charge that's where he'd start 2009.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the Brewers need a catcher now. In my ideal world, here's how the Brewers would handle the catching position this offseason:

1. Make a serious effort to sign Yorvit Torrealba. Torrealba isn't an elite catcher (he's hit .258/.316/.394 over the last four seasons as a Rockie), but he might be the best one available on the free agent market, and he's capable enough to hold down the job until Lucroy is ready to take it over. The Rockies recently declined his option for 2010, and he turned down a 2 year, $4.5 million offer to remain with the team. Here's the deal I'd offer him:

Two years, $6 million base salary, club option for third year at $5 million, $500k buyout.
$250,000 incentives each season for starting 80 and 100 games, and $500,000 for starting 120.
Option year vests if Torrealba starts 200 or more games in the first two seasons of the deal.

By making this deal, the Brewers would spend less money on a catcher than they have over the previous two seasons, but would have a viable long-term insurance policy at the position. Meanwhile, Torrealba has a reason to work to retain his spot in front of the prospects. If he starts enough games to make the 2012 option vest, it will be because neither Angel Salome or Lucroy have emerged as a viable replacement. If that happens, the Brewers will probably need Yorvit to hang around for a third year anyway.

If this deal went through, I would recoup some of the expenditure by non-tendering Mike Rivera. I like Rivera and I don't think he's been given the opportunity he's deserved to prove he can contribute as a Brewer, but Ken Macha doesn't appear interested in giving him an opportunity to be a full time player, and Rivera figures to make about $1 million in arbitration.

2. Split time 60/40 between the veteran and Angel Salome. It's time to put up or shut up for Salome. If Lucroy starts the season in AAA, then there's no place to put Salome except on the big league roster, to either prove he belongs or not. As such, I'd divide the rotation, assigning Angel to two pitchers, and see what he can do with consistent playing time in the major leagues. Allowing Salome to catch 2-3 times a week (and perhaps DH during interleague play) should be enough playing time for the Brewers to see what they have with him and also keep whichever veteran remains (Rivera or Torrealba) rested and sharp.

I'm not sure the Brewers see it this way, though. In the article linked above about Kendall's return, Adam McCalvy said "neither Melvin nor Brewers manager Ken Macha have indicated that they view Rivera as a 130-plus start player." In all of baseball last season, there were only six catchers who caught 130 games. Most teams split time between players at the catcher position. There's no reason why the Brewers couldn't let a veteran like Rivera or Torrealba catch 100 games, and someone like Salome handle the other 62.

3. Reevaluate after the season. Unless injury, ineffectiveness or an extremely hot start by Lucroy come into play, I'd leave him down in AAA until September, call him up as a third catcher for the stretch run, and wait to make a decision regarding his future until after the season. In either of the above scenarios, the veteran catcher and Salome are under team control for 2011. If the front office feels Lucroy is ready to take over, then they have one of baseball's greatest problems: Two capable catchers. If he's not, they still have a viable catching tandem to start 2011, and can afford to be patient.

I like Lucroy as much as the next guy, but I don't think there's any reason to rush him at this point. I think the Brewers should be patient, max out his development and take the necessary steps to fill the gap until he's ready. They should also not re-sign Jason Kendall.

Poll

What do you think of my plan for Brewer catchers next season?

I like and/or could live with this plan.

193 votes

I'm not a big fan of this plan, but we could do worse.

62 votes

I disagree with your plan, and think Lucroy is ready now.

70 votes

I disagree with your plan, and think the Brewers should bring Kendall back.

13 votes

Damn it KL, crap like this is a perfect example of how you're ruining this site. Jeff Sackmann never would have written something like this.

44 votes

382 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I think Option No. 2 makes the most sense.

But I also agree with your line about “injury, ineffectiveness, or an extremely hot start” in Option 3. We should have a pretty good idea of how good next year’s team is/can be by, say, the end of June. If the team is playing well but Salome is scuffling, and Lucroy is tearing up AAA, I’d be OK with bringing the kid up in July. If we’re treading water at the end of June, leave Lucroy in AAA until September.

by Rubie Q on Nov 13, 2009 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yorvit Torrealba stinks

I hate to bring Lucroy up too early too, but if some combination of Lucroy/Salome/Rivera can outproduce the free agent options (which I think they can) why bring in someone else?

Alternatively, non-tendering Rivera and signing a cheaper (than Torrealba) veteran as a safety option might work. I don’t think that kind of contract for Torrealba would be a good idea though.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 13, 2009 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

But having a lineup with 2 rookies is?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not ideal

But you can’t always create a perfect team. The Brewers need pitching, it makes no sense to use trade chips or limited payroll to go for a marginal upgrade at catcher (if that) when the rotation is still half empty.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 13, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But downgrading the offense in CF makes sense?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Downgrade over Jody Gerut?

Mike Cameron is a free agent, he wasn’t exactly on the team.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 13, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then why do you count his salary and talk about 'saving money?'

Also, yes, Gomez is a downgrade over Gerut offensively.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Flagged.

Only two rhetorical questions are allowed per argument.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 14, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Overruled.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 14, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because we’re saving money by not having to pursue a free agent centerfielder, much like going with available internal options saves money by not having to spend on a free agent catcher… Is that complicated?

And once again, it’s ridiculous to consider only Gomez’s offense when his defense more than compensates to give him superior value in centerfield than Gerut (the same offensive-powerhouse who had a .286 wOBA last season)

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 14, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sample size?

Gerut’s had 70% more AB’s than Gomez, and owns a .264/.342/.436 line with a career wOBA of .330 to Gomez’s .246/.292/.346 and .286. Are you really going to argue that Gerut isn’t significantly better?

Defensively, Gerut is an 10.4 UZR/150 player over his career in CF, and Gomez is a 14.2 UZR/150 player. For reference, Mike Cameron’s career UZR/150 in CF is 5.7.

How is this even a question anymore? Two days after the world series, you give away one of our biggest trade chips when you have a guy who (statistically) appears to be able to uphold the defensive end of the game, as well as produce at the plate.

If you’d like to go back and forth some more, I suppose we can. I think you’re betting Gomez will turn a corner offensively (and you’d better believe as a Brewers fan, I’m hoping for the same…I’m just a little less optimistic than you), and you’re looking at 4 years of club control. I’m looking at the competition window closing after 2011, and thinking that this team needs someone who’s proven a little more offensively than that.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Those who live in small sample size houses shouldn’t throw small sample size stones.

You hate everything about the 2010 Brewers, every move Melvin makes and even those he doesn’t make, we get it.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 14, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This makes no sense

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 14, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What makes no sense?

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 14, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say

All of it.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Both of you, back off.

This has gone far enough. Next time I have to say something, I’ll be saying it with a one-day suspension.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 14, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're threatening me with a suspension?

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 14, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, the hyperbole police called:

You hate everything about the 2010 Brewers, every move Melvin makes and even those he doesn’t make, we get it

That’s not productive. Please tone it down.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 14, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, sorry

I was actually trying to put the whole issue to bed with:

If you’d like to go back and forth some more, I suppose we can. I think you’re betting Gomez will turn a corner offensively (and you’d better believe as a Brewers fan, I’m hoping for the same…I’m just a little less optimistic than you), and you’re looking at 4 years of club control. I’m looking at the competition window closing after 2011, and thinking that this team needs someone who’s proven a little more offensively than that.

My wife says sometimes I don’t know when to hold my tongue. She’s usually right.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What in his post do you consider a small sample size?

Everything he cites is a career stat.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Nov 14, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gerut’s 122 career defensive games in centerfield is much too small a sample to be comparing his UZR stats. Or do you consider him a significantly better fielder than Cameron as well…?

Furthermore, it makes absolutely no sense to compare his career statistics which are weighted towards 2003 and 2004 to his current performance level. Gerut’s 274 awful AB in 2009 are too small a sample, but his 328 AB the year before are his true talent level, right?

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 14, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, he's played 148 games in CF

1121.1 innings. And I would still think he is capable of putting up much better defense in CF than a lot of guys out there. That’s my opinion based on the numbers, and the times I saw him in CF this year (I remember one glaring mis-play). No one’s arguing Gomez isn’t better defensively. Not that I’ve seen, anyway.

The point is about Gerut’s offense. I took his career lines, not a sample from 2009 or 2008. And I took Gomez’s career lines, while acknowledging the discrepancy. So I guess I’m not sure where the problem is. Aside from the one you seem to have with me, I guess.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely not

he’s pointing out that Gomez, in his career so far, has not been better than Gerut.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Nov 15, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea, but I'd prefer Schoppach

and in the event that plan fails, I’d look at GREGG ZAUN. With Torrealba as the backup option behind GREGG ZAUN.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Nov 13, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

I like the Napoli suggestion as well.

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Nov 13, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

what is it we’re trading for Napoli? He’s only got just over 2 years of service time. So..we give up on Salome and LuCroy? Or just turn into the Texas Rangers?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We know melvin's stance on that.

by Mykenk on Nov 13, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Welcome your 2010 Texsconsin Rangewers of Milwarlington!

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So we're signing Ivan Rodriguez?

Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.

by Yar Nivek on Nov 13, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We can only hope

Maybe Palmeiro will un-retire, too.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I secretly hope it is a Rodriguez/Ausmus catching tandem next year

Even worse than Kendall offensively but loaded with defense & intangibles godliness.

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 13, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it just me

or does Brad Ausmus eternally look 35? Is he the new Dick Clark?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 14, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Greg Zaun would rule,

Yorvit, not so much.

by Braunstalker on Nov 14, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Looper option declined, btw!

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 13, 2009 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Pat Listach

How about Mike Napoli of the Angels? He is obviously not a favorite of Mike Scosia, who kept going to Jeff Mathis as the season in the playoffs.That’s serious power (.220 ISO) riding the pine for (the Los Angeles Angels of) Anaheim on an arb-eligible contract.

Sure Napoli’s defense is not so hot, but he’s a real option to hit behind Prince now that Cameron’s gone. Brew can offer a Chone Figgins-lite replacement at 3B/IF utility (Casey McGahee) who is under a very friendly team contract ($400K) and team control for several years.

That gives the Brewers 2 years with a power-hitting, weak fielding catcher and one of the Salome/Lucroy combo time to develop and take the full-time job 2012.

by Nolan R(owland-Smith) on Nov 13, 2009 12:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Getting Mike Napoli would take much more than just McGehee. Considering the Brewers have internal options at catcher (Lucroy/Salome) it makes no sense to trade any more players for anything other than pitching.

The same goes for a Shoppach deal.

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 13, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Although I don’t agree with your general philosophy. As if that needed to be said.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A veteran is needed

But I’d make it a 1 year deal with vesting option. Preferably get a catcher with some on-base skills and/or strong defense. I think it would be a mistake to commit to 2 years to any FA catcher, if one of Salome or Lucroy aren’t ready by 2011, they won’t be ever.

by kingcharlesxii on Nov 13, 2009 12:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you can get a free agent catcher for a 1 year deal, and I certainly don't want to pay the 1 year deal premium for a catcher.

by Mykenk on Nov 13, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea of

bringing in Torrealba…. when I first heard the Rockies couldn’t get him back for what they offered, I immediately thought the Brewers should bring him in…

However, the Napoli option seems more appealing to me with his power…

Shoppach would be alright… but not a first or second or third choice….

Goooooo-mez!

by Drew C on Nov 13, 2009 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

AFL

I think Lucroy should spend 2010 in AAA as well. He is definitely the catcher of the future for this team, but just not yet.

One other thing that you should mention about Lucroy’s torrid start in the AFL this eyar, apart from it being a small sample size, is that the league is short on top notch pitching prospects. The thinking is that inning and pitch limits are keeping the top pitching prospects out of the league to rest their arms.

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 2:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I thought I did mention that:

he AFL is one of the most hitter friendly places on Earth, with a .281/.357/.441 league average.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I saw that

But nothing about quality of competiton. You can have great pitchers throwing in hitter friendly parks to give evidence to those numbers, but if you throw in there isnt a ton of top quality pitching, those numbers probably go up even more.

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Stephen Strasbourg was a top prospect?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

But he has zero professional innings pitched. Their are quite a few guys from this years draft in the league, but Lucroy has 2+ years of professional ball under his belt.

Looking through the rosters, I think I counted 5 or so elite level pitching prospects in the league (outside of 09 draftees).

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeesh

I guess in baseball talent doesn’t matter, its experience?

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Be nice.

There are some decent pitchers in the AFL, but even the best only pitch an inning or two every third day. For example, look at the guys the Brewers sent:

Zach Braddock is pitching very well.
Rob Wooten isn’t pitching poorly.
Mark Rogers is a former top prospect with injury issues. He’s getting lit up.
Josh Butler is a rising prospect. Getting lit up.
Omar Aguilar is coming off a major disappointment season. Getting lit up.

So, for every Strasburg, et al down there, there’s a handful of guys that are overmatched. There’s also a lot of guys who are used to working as starters, but are getting used in relief.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I get that

cali’s post seems to indicate that it doesn’t matter who is an elite prospect if they haven’t pitched professionally yet.

Sure I did it sarcastically, but the way these things are set up, it doesn’t matter if you’ve never played professionally, you’ll make it into the top prospect lists if you merit it. See also: Lawrie, Brett.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lawrie is

a top 100 prospect though.

The kinds of guys Im talking about are guys like Madison Bumgarner, Mat Latos, Trevor Reckling, Kyle Drabek, Jarrod Parker, Christian Friedrich, Chris Withrow, Pedro Figueroa, Wynn Pelzer, etc.

Of the guys playing AFL ball, apart from the 09 draftees again, the only guys with more than a year’s worth of professional experience, and also rated as an elite/top level prospect are Phillipe Aumont, Andrew Cashner, Andrew Miller,Philippe Aumont, Craig Kimbrel, and Jennry Mejia. There are a lot of fringe top 100 guys and a lot of first time pro guys, and then quite a few guys whose stock has fallen dramatically.

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So is Strasburg

I guess you’re not understanding what I’m saying.

I get that not every organization’s top pitching prospects always play AZL. Same’s true for hitters.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I get it

Strasburg Storen, Leake, etc. Those guys are elite prospects. They probably will all rank in BA’s top 100 next year. But (with the exception of Storen) those recently drafted players have little to no professional experience.

They may have a huge upside that makes them an elite prospect, but there is still something to be said for a guy like Lucroy, who has 2+ years of professional experience, and is a very good prospect as well, being able to tear a young pitcher like that’s stuff to pieces.

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I’m with you.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But, legitimately

I misunderstood, and thought you really were putting experience above talent. I know I’m facetious at times, but that wasn’t one of them :)

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Phillips Aumont

is such a unique name, it’s funny there are two minor leaguers with that name at the same time. :)

"I've had the time of my afterlife." --Patrick Swayze

by baumann on Nov 14, 2009 12:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Aren't most of the pitchers a bit worn out by the time the AFL starts?

Does that contribute to it being a hitters league?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 13, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I was reading that this is one of the first years that the AFL does not have a ton of the top pitching prospects in it. After 6 months of baseball and tons of games, innings and pitches, most clubs dont want to take the risk of sending one of their top guys down there and have his arm get tired or worn out or strain a tendon or something.

by backtocali on Nov 13, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure where to look to find this

Do the Rangers have a ton of pitchers down there? What, with their new pitching strategy and all..

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 14, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BA

Baseball America at some point or another leading up to the AFL has listed which teams have sent which players. Im willing to bet the Rangers SB Nation site has a listing as well.

But MLB’s web site, at the far right, under “Other” I think lists Winter ball, then AFL. On the standings, you can click on the team name and it will give you the rosters. But you would have to know where each guy comes from.

by backtocali on Nov 14, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Torrealba?

Why Torrealba? His OPS of .732 last season is fine, but the two seasons before last, outside of Coors, we’re talking .633 and a stunning .618, both of which are at sub-Kendall levels. I don’t think throwing millions of dollars at a catcher with mediocre (yet still Coors-inflated) stats seems like a good idea.

Also, Lucroy is further along than Salome, yet you want Salome in the majors and Lucroy in AAA? They’re both only 23; I’m not sure why we’re rushing to give up on Salome so soon.

My guess is, if we’re close money-wise to signing someone like Lackey, Melvin will go with Lucroy. If not, he’ll keep Lucroy in AAA, perhaps with Salome, and do a Kendall (or Kendall replacement)/Rivera split for one more season.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 13, 2009 2:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Salome's got five years of service in the minors.

And Lucroy’s got three (including 60 games in rookie ball in ’07) — and none above AA ball. I think that might be the reason for suggesting promoting Salome and giving Lucroy a year at AAA.

by Rubie Q on Nov 13, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But if Salome is struggling now

What do you think will happen when he’s in the majors?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 13, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Become awesome

by SgtClueLs on Nov 13, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My guess is that's the most likely scenario.

Salome and Rivera (or other cheap vet) open the season in Milwaukee. Lurcroy starts the year in Nashville. If they like what he’s doing down there, he gets the call by June 1st.

Of course, that probably means that Macha will make it a personal project to destroy his confidence and productivity like he did with Gamel, but that appears to be acceptable to Melvin.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 14, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think your assessment of what Melvin is planning on doing is very accurate.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 13, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the difference between Salome and Lucroy is long-term potential.

The general consensus seems to be that Lucroy is going to be a steady major league catcher. So I’d like to see them give him enough time to develop to reach that potential.

The jury is split on Salome. Some think he’ll hit enough to be productive, some don’t think he can stick at catcher, etc. Because his future is questionable, I’d rather see the Brewers burn a year of his service time.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be OK with that

except the odds of Salome not being overmatched in the majors are right around 0. I’d rather see him get traded (to the AL), or give him the extra time in the minors to see if he can put it together. No reason to hurt the major league club.

I still think he and Lucroy would make a good tandem, someday.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 13, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

We’ve made it 3 hours, and only 11% of you have taken the opportunity to remind me that I suck. Thanks, everyone!

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I didn't choose that option because of the wording.

You’re not RUINING the site. You’ve RUINED the site. :)

by Rubie Q on Nov 13, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Clearly, I should have noted the difference.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't want to say it

in something so impersonal as a poll. I’d rather send you a gift basket of my dog’s poop from the backyard. :)

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 13, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the chocolate tasted funny.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by Kyle Lobner on Nov 13, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted agree

FWIW. I’ll have your apple waiting on your desk Monday morning.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Nov 13, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted about 15 times before logging in

For what it’s worth.

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 13, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted for the last option

because it was far too funny to pass up. Don’t worry, KL, we all still love you.

by ecocd on Nov 14, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted for the "could live with this" part of the first option

I’m hoping Lucroy is the catcher next year, but your logic makes sense.

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Nov 13, 2009 5:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Javier Valentin

Javier Valentin Javier Valentin Javier Valentin Javier Valentin

"I've had the time of my afterlife." --Patrick Swayze

by baumann on Nov 14, 2009 12:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Either you're being inconsistant, or I don't understand the option rules

You’re advocating keeping Lucroy in AAA so he doesn’t burn an option year, but then want to bring him up in September? Doesn’t that burn an option (assuming he gets optioned down before the start of 2011)?

by PagsBrewCrew on Nov 14, 2009 1:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

No it doesn't

Since he’s not on the 40-man roster and doesn’t have to be protected from the Rule 5 draft until after next season, leaving him in the minors to start 2010 won’t use up an option. To call him up in September (or whenever) they would have to purchase his contract and add him to the 40-man roster. If he stays in the majors from that point until the end of the season, no option is used that year.

Really, Lucroy’s options remaining isn’t a huge concern in 2010. The only way they come into play is if he’s added to the 40-man roster and that means he’ll be in the majors. If he’s in the majors already, it’s probably not going to take 3 more years of bouncing him back and forth to decide if he’ll stick.

Sign Corky Miller

by TheJay on Nov 14, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs