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Around SBN: Can Tebow Say No To Anything?

"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."

Doug Melvin, Milwaukee's hapless broken record GM - Brewers officials met Monday afternoon and appear unlikely to offer arbitration to any of the team's five compensation-eligible free agents.

2 months ago Sienalogo_tiny TheJay 65 comments 0 recs  | 

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"We don't have a way to get picks back"

What does that mean? We would get picks back if we offered, say, Cam and Lopez arbitration and they declined. Or is he referring to something else?

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Nov 30, 2009 9:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No no no that would never work

Oh wait, yeah it would.

Instead of bitching to reporters, maybe Doug could start calling other teams about players, offer arbitration to Lopez and Cameron, and not sign any type-A free agents.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Nov 30, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just about to say:

If Doug spent as much time workin’ the phones as he does bitching about the draft, the free agent compensation system, expanded rosters, and the price of tea in China, we might be in better shape next year.

by Rubie Q on Nov 30, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What is the price of tea in China, btw?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 30, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you asked Doug,

I’m sure he’d tell you it’s too damn high.

by Rubie Q on Nov 30, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We're a small market blog

We can’t afford Type A tea. How much for a used, in fairly good shape and could surprise you by producing a good cup sometime in the near future tea?

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 1, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I think he means the risk is too great those guys would accept

Which seems dumb, but is really brilliant when you consider the fact Doug Melvin has already looked at the roster of every single major league franchise and sees no potential matches for a trade involving an arbitration-accepting Lopez or Cameron.

I wonder how long it would take Doug to change his tune from “we can’t get that pick back” to “we can’t risk signing high-priced free agents” if any Type A free agents are not offered arbitration. Three jiffies?

by TheJay on Nov 30, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For tcyoung

The article mentions teams have until 10:59pm CT on Tuesday to offer arbitration.

by TheJay on Nov 30, 2009 9:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Timezones are great.

Thanks, TheJay

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 30, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem not offering Kendall

That is a Graffinino waiting to happen, but the rest you would be retarded not to offer. The team would be lucky to have Cam accept arby. This site (with another 162 games of WSB Chris’ bellyachin’) not so much, but you win some you lose some.

by Getting Yosted on Nov 30, 2009 9:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

My favorite part

And this may suggest McCalvy (and thus me, too) is jumping the gun by saying extending arbitration offers to everyone is unlikely:

Lopez is likely to seek a multiyear contract, and would have to decline an arbitration offer from the Brewers to get one.

[snip]

“You would love to have that depth,” Melvin said. "But is [Lopez] going to want to be a part-time player? He’s going to want to be an everyday player, and Rickie is going to want to be an everyday player.

Yes, those are compelling reasons to assume Lopez will accept arbitration.

by TheJay on Nov 30, 2009 9:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm compelled, alright.

I will be pissed if Lopez is not offered arbitration.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 30, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Christ...

… if he’s that terrified they might accept arbitration, just pick one guy, offer arby, and let the other go. But don’t let them both walk for nothing, you damned idiot!

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 30, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I couldn’t have said it better myself

by balldeagle on Dec 1, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And that's the meat of the issue.

This argument keeps coming back to the point that the player probably won’t accept arbitration knowing that he’ll be a part time player or traded. Why would he sign for 1 year with essentially a mystery team (whoever he’s traded to) when he could sign a multiyear deal with a team of his choosing?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Nov 30, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless his agent is putting out feelers and is getting zero interest ...

I can’t foresee a player like Lopez — coming off a career year, still has a lot of gas in the tank — accepting arbitration.

by Rubie Q on Nov 30, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Especially with guys like Alex Cora getting $2M today, you’d have to believe there is someone who will offer Lopez a multi-year deal. I don’t know what Doug is afraid of.

Get a ife broseph

by Supertramp on Nov 30, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you watch "How I Met Your Mother,"

you’d know that all Canadians are afraid of the dark.

by Rubie Q on Nov 30, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All Canadians Are Afraid of the Dark

is the less popular spinoff off the 1990s television show Are You Afraid of the Dark, purportedly because it is impossible to sound scary when using the word ‘aboot’.

by sme on Nov 30, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what Doug would propose as an alternative system.

Is he saying that teams shouldn’t cede a draft pick when they poach another team’s best player?

by Rubie Q on Nov 30, 2009 9:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Devil's advocate

I think Melvin is totally in the wrong here too, but I maybe at least understand where he’s coming from. The case against offering Cameron arbitration is more clear, because even though we-of-post-1930s-stats know he’s well worth the $10+ million he’ll be making next year, I could foresee him accepting and being very difficult to trade.

As for Lopez, denying him arbitration makes much less sense, but maybe Melvin’s thinking 1) He’ll accept and get a huge pay raise through arbitration based on his career year in 2009 and 2) He’ll subsequently be very difficult to trade without eating some of his new salary (especially after arbitration hearings, when its late enough in the off-season that most teams have already filled positional needs)

But then again, clearly Lopez wouldn’t accept arbitration, and I also doubt even getting “stuck” with him would really handcuff the team’s payroll, as there are always reserve funds built in even after going out and getting starting pitching (to be used for things like, as in 2009, signing… Lopez)

Ryan Braun: He loves it. *Secretly, I am Carlos Gomez*

by SRB on Nov 30, 2009 10:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It is kind of funny

Of course the FA compensation needs to be fixed - I mean, the whole CC Sabathia/Ben Sheets fiasco was proof of that.

But isn’t it strange that Cameron’s willingness to come back at a lesser price could be perceived as a bad thing, like an implicit threat? Kind of “don’t offer me arbitration, because I’ll come back to the team.” Not that Cameron was intending it that way, of course.

Of course, not to continue to beat the dead horse, but if Melvin wasn’t hellbent on acquiring Gomez so quickly, Cameron’s arbitration might not be such an issue right now.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 1, 2009 6:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'm going to stroke out.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 30, 2009 11:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think that was a cry for help

battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm

by Michael M on Nov 30, 2009 11:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant, as in "have a stroke if Melvin doesn't offer one of them arbitration"....

… though maybe that’s not appropriate either….

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 30, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No it's OK

It was posted on Cyber Monday

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 1, 2009 5:58 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

What happened to the shrewd Melvin I knew and loved?

And why did Sal Bando take over his body?

battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm

by Michael M on Nov 30, 2009 11:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Doug Melvin

Doug was let go in Texas for not making changes he is to conservative and if all fails for 2010 Mr. Melvin and Mr. Ash will be facing the same issues Ted Thompson and Mcarthy..And for Weeks keep Lopez trade Weeks tthey invested to much time

by futurescout on Dec 1, 2009 12:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well poop..

I’m going to have to start blogging about this again. I need more time, no idea how KL does it.

by SgtClueLs on Dec 1, 2009 12:21 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's just a matter of falling into a routine

Carve out a block where you and everyone around you knows “I’m writing now, leave me alone.” Mine runs from about 6:15-10 am.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Dec 1, 2009 7:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is just depressing

I sincerely hope he is pulling our chains, otherwise this offseason just keeps getting worse and worse. I at least hope there is a bit of a public backlash (outside of our little community) if he truly doesn’t offer any of the FAs arb.

I wonder if all this belly-aching Melvin’s been doing affects his ability to work with other GMs. Granted I never will be one, but if I was a GM I think I’d start to look at GM’s like Melvin as the whiny old snob that complains about everything instead finding a solution or way around the problem and someone I wouldn’t want to work with unless I have to.

BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.

by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 1, 2009 12:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bingo

Now, he’s the guy that’s going to offer you next to nothing for your guy, then go to the media and complain about how you’re being unreasonable and the system needs to be reworked.

That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.

by KLSnow on Dec 1, 2009 7:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Complaining about arbitration/draft compensation issues isn't the same as complaining about other GMs

Melvin doesn’t usually talk about what’s going on re: trades. Maybe it’s selective memory but I only recall him being upset about the Yankees wanting money in the nixed Cameron deal.

Either way, I don’t think him complaining about arbitration and draft compensation has a big impact on trades. Similarly, I don’t think the GM’s personality is a major factor in trades.

by TheJay on Dec 1, 2009 7:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think the GM’s personality is a major factor in trades.

I agree. Remember how Moneyball was going to kill Billy Beane’s ability to make trades, since the book suggested (if not outright said) that Beane was so much smarter than his GM counterparts, and that he was fleecing them at every opportunity?

by Rubie Q on Dec 1, 2009 8:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is his last leg to stand on

Antancio is putting the pressure on them both doug and ash Bruce seid needs to put pressure on the Scouts and start finding pitchers and i know they are out there…..

by futurescout on Dec 1, 2009 1:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Who's Antancio?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Dec 1, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is there anyone left out there that doesn't think Melvin's an idiot?

And I ask in all curiosity.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 1, 2009 1:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

An idiot?

No, that’s kind of harsh.

His strength seems to be in finding other team’s undesirables and recycling them for more than they’re worth, with McGehee being the latest example. However, I wouldn’t say he’s been especially shrewd with his trades or bigger-name FA signings.

It could be that it’s (relatively) easy to build up a doormat to an 80-win team. You have the luxury of taking fliers on long-shots and seeing what pans out. Going from 80 wins to 90 wins, though, is a lot more difficult, and Playoff Contender Melvin hasn’t been as impressive in that regard. (Even when spotted an advantage of Braun agreeing to remain a Brewer until 2015, and at a reasonable cost.) He may not like the arbitration process, but he’s painted himself into a corner re: Lopez and Cameron. And if he’s backing up the Brinks truck for just one guy, be it Lackey or Fielder, then I’d really question whether he can succeed at this level.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 1, 2009 6:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no one left

Sorry to say at this time some managers are in Japan coaching and doing well.. its time we start getting players and managers who care about the team and there cities

by futurescout on Dec 1, 2009 1:52 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts...

1.) What “type A” FA were we seriously looking at signing? — Were we really in the running for Lackey? — and if so, I’d surrender a second round pick in a heartbeat. It seems to me that DM is just bitching about random shit again.

2.) The last few years we have made trades for players (Linebrink, Sabathia) with Melvin touting that the trade was made for the draft picks as well as the players. Last year with Sheets and Sabathia, DM was frothing at the mouth with all of the picks we were going to acquire, — and then some funky shit happened and all we got was Braden Looper. DM has benefited in the past from draft pick compensation, it doesn’t seem right to bitch about it this year.

3.) I can understand DM’s reluctance to offer Lopez arbitration, ONLY if Weeks is a 100% healthy and ready to play 140 games or so. I don’t think Lopez is going into a seller’s market — he has burned a lot of bridges, I do think that there is a high chance that Lopez would accept arbitration. DM wants to spend his money on pitching, I sort of get that.

These comments by DM are getting tiresome though, it is almost like Bud Selig has abducted his brain.

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Dec 1, 2009 8:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This is dumb

Cameron is not coming back now that we have Gomez - even if he would get more money in arbitration with us, he’s not going to ride the bench. He (justifiably) wants to start.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 1, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is the money from arb guaranteed?

 Didn’t the club cut Vargas in spring training going into 2008 and only owe him around 30% of his contract to just go away? So if Cam/Lopez accept arb and Melvin can’t move them and they don’t a roster spot the club still isn’t on the hook for the full arb award if they act decisively in the spring.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 1, 2009 8:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

You are correct --

However, Vargas was making $40/hr — Cameron would be due ~$3M if we cut him in spring — that’s a huge amount to pay someone with no MLB production.

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Dec 1, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if this matters:

But Vargas didn’t go to arbitration — we offered, he accepted, but Melvin signed him to a $3.6 million, one-year contract before the hearing. That money wasn’t guaranteed, so they could release him at the end of spring training and only be on the hook for 30% of the contract.

by Rubie Q on Dec 1, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Arby deals are not guaranteed

Even if the Arbynator awards it.

Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog

by Fatter than Joey on Dec 1, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for clarifying.

And stop making me hungry.

by Rubie Q on Dec 1, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Running Scared?

This statement/philosophy does not project a lot of confidence from the Brewer front office imo.

DM has been doing a lot of whining lately about the system and how it has damaged the Brewers chances at success (which I completely disagree with). Small market teams have succeeded and made playoff appearances consistently in this environment, so the only excuse any of them has for not winning is bad circumstance or bad management.

This statement takes me back to a few of the jobs Ive had where I was scared as heck to make mistakes. You tend to act very conservatively, do things very meticulously so as not to make a mistake. I wonder if this sort of thing is the result of a hard push by the ownership to make a playoff appearance/push every single year. If so, its a pretty unrealistic appraoch.

Even teams like the Marlins and Twins have to rebuild every few years to compete. I just wonder if there is a ton of pressure from the top to make next years squad a winner as well as money maker, thus prompting DM to do things that are not smart baseball moves.

Again, this could be a sign that the team is gearing up for a rebuild and that Prince is on his way out before the end of ’10.

by backtocali on Dec 1, 2009 9:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Stillwell

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 1, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

link

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Well actually, Doug,

you do have a way to get picks back.

I just don’t see any reason to not offer FeLo arby. He’s not going to accept it. My brain just can’t comprehend Melvin’s logic here.

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Dec 1, 2009 11:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The only way it makes any sense to me is if there’s some heretofore unknown rule against trading free agents who accept arbitration until after their hearings or June 16 (the soonest you can trade a free agent you sign from another club without the player’s permission). Even then, I still don’t think Lopez will accept anyway.

by TheJay on Dec 1, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If the June 16 deadline is the case

I can understand DM’s logic.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Dec 1, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you don't know it

the rule doesn’t exist

"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC

by BrewHaHeather on Dec 1, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

There are undoubtedly plenty of technicalities and rules of which I am blissfully unaware.

by TheJay on Dec 1, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That used to be the rule but they changed it now

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 1, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what I was talking about

But teams are definitely free to trade players, no technicalities there.

E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).

by Jordan M on Dec 1, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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