Mike Cameron, Carlos Gomez, and Arbitration

by roguejim on Dec 3, 2009 7:56 AM CST Comment 22 comments

I was thinking some more about (the folly of) not giving arbitration to Felipe Lopez, and how I would have considered offering arbitration to Mike Cameron. That got me wondering: in all the talk about the Carlos Gomez trade, does anyone remember seeing anything reported about DM calling Cameron to let him know of what had transpired?

After the season, there were reports that Cameron would be willing to re-sign with the Brewers on something of a discount, on offer that was moot when we traded for Gomez. Usually, when there is a story on a big trade like JJ Hardy for Gomez, there'll be a line about how Melvin or Gord Ash would have called Cameron to explain what was going on. I don't remember reading that in the JSOnline or MLB reports.

I remember reading that it's not uncommon for teams to work out with its departing FA agreements to not accept arbitration if offered, something that would especially make sense when you're a Type B FA and your status has no effect on where you might be signed. Given that Cameron has already expressed a desire to be starting, something he wouldn't be doing in Milwaukee after the controversial JJ trade, I think it would have been unlikely for him to accept arbitration. Assuming that Cam and the Brewers were still on good terms, I wonder if such an agreement could have been worked out.

In other words, I think a more talented GM would have gotten two supplemental picks from our departing free agents instead of one, or in our case, none.

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Cam

I dont remember hearing anything about that, but if I were Cameron, and were offered arbitration, I probably would have accepted.

He would have been given a raise on his $10 million salary from last year and the market for his services for a 2 or 3 year deal is probably nowhere near that amount. It is widely reported that he enjoyed being here, but does that love extend to a loss of $4 millon?

Thats probably why it wasnt offered to him. Heck if he can find an employer that will pay him nicely/overpay and he can go to a “contender” or close to home, this will make Cameron just as happy.

by backtocali on Dec 3, 2009 8:50 AM CST reply actions

Why do you assume he would have gotten a raise?

I know it’s common to get raises in arbitration in the three seasons before you first become a free agent (like JJ Hardy would now). I don’t think you automatically get a raise in FA arbitration, though, especially, as you point out, when the market is nowhere near that amount. (Admittedly, I could be wrong about that. I wish MLB would make a distinction between the two flavors of arbitration.)

Either way, I don’t think Cameron would settle to be a well-paid backup.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 3, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions

I dont know the rule either

It is just an assumption. But Cam has been underpaid the past two years.

He could come in with a number of $12 million and the Brewers $8 (which is more than they probably want to pay) and then the arbitrator says hes definitely worth more than $8 given his past two years and his underpayment, and then wins. No middle ground there.

I dont think he would be happy being a bench player, but he sure as heck would be happy with $4 million extra in his pockets. Plus, that would creat a battle between he and Gomez, which he might not have a hard time winning. If he got the job, played well, and the Brewers picked up part of his salary, they might get something for him.

by backtocali on Dec 3, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions

Wanna guess the highest amount Cam has every been paid for one year?

If you went for $10 mil last year, pat yourself on the back. Before 2009, the most Cam was ever paid was $7 mil. I think in the current market the arbitrator wouldn’t want to give 8 or 12, as both are too high for a soon to be 37 yo CF with slightly above average offense.

When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved

by Getting Yosted on Dec 3, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

you cannot reduce a players salary by more than 20% in arbitration

and to do that, an awful season is usually required

by marty22 on Dec 3, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions

That rule doesn't apply to guys who file for free agency

by TheJay on Dec 3, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions

Horse meet stick

But why does everyone assume that it would go to a hearing? Doug Melvin hasn’t been to a hearing yet, he always settles before hand, usually slightly above mid-point.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 3, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions

horse meet stick?

really?

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Dec 4, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions

well

I should have used better punctuation:

Horse, meet stick.

its shorter than saying

I know this is beating a dead horse

And if at least one person chuckles, I feel like I’ve saved a kitten.

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 4, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions

well, sir you saved a kitten.

But that kitten was later killed by some horse’s meet stick.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Dec 4, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions

or meat stick?

by PagsBrewCrew on Dec 4, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions

There's a joke in there...somewhere...

I don’t have a category for "washed-up guys who may or may not be dominant big-league closers sometime soon."

~Jeff Sackmann

by Charlie Marlow on Dec 4, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions

If Cameron were on the team next year

Corey Hart would (should) be the well-paid backup

It is what it is.

by coolig on Dec 3, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

... in Atlanta...

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 4, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions

This is from McCalvy's November 6 post on the trade:

Brewers GM Doug Melvin said he left a message with Cameron on Friday [November 6] explaining that the Brewers would not pursue him in free agency.

by Rubie Q on Dec 3, 2009 8:55 AM CST reply actions

This exists somewhere.

Brewers GM Doug Melvin said he left a message with every available Major League player explaining he would not pursue them in free agency, the trade market, or through the arbitration process.

"Since baseball is my favorite sport, it's easy to go out and do what I do." --Patrick Swayze

by baumann on Dec 3, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions

haha, nice.

except, I would replace available with worthwhile.

Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".

by tcyoung on Dec 3, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions

Were Cameron to accept arbitration

Would you really be able to say that he wouldn’t be starting? He is still the better player than Gomez and would cost more, so why not have him start were Milwaukee to have both? If the Brewers kept Hart in right field, I would imagine Gomez would either be the fourth outfielder or in Nashville to work on his hitting.

by NoahJ on Dec 3, 2009 11:51 AM CST reply actions

It depends

Were he actually on the team, then sure, he’d start, at least most of the time. (Actually, I’d probably try to move Corey Hart then.)

I guess it’s more of a reason to get him to refuse arbitration than anything else.

"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"

by roguejim on Dec 3, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions

Fair enough.

But I think that he and his agent would be smart enough to see through that if he even was thinking about accepting arbitration.

by NoahJ on Dec 3, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions

we're not seeing the whole story anyway

it’s quite possible doug asked them if they would accept arbitration if he were to offer it. and maybe they said yes, and that’s why he didn’t.

another alternative is that they said they weren’t sure or that they would like to come back, in which case he got scared. but then, you could it to them arbitration to see what happens. if they accept, you can try to work out a contract (in cameron’s case, perhaps at a reduced rate) if they accept. you don’t HAVE to go to arbitration (or at least you didn’t in the past). and if you sign cameron to a $6-7M deal, then you could probably trade him and not eat much (if anything). in which case it’s worth offering it to him, just to see if he turns it down.

but i think this has been beaten to death, so i’ll just procrastinate in other ways. maybe i’ll sing along to frank c’s walk-up music. it’s stuck in my head still.

by Capt Science on Dec 3, 2009 3:18 PM CST reply actions

to clarify

you don’t have to go to arbitration if you agree to terms before the hearing (is my understanding). if they don’t, then yeah, you’re going.

by Capt Science on Dec 3, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

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