Monday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 7, 2009 9:30 AM CST
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintSome things to read while the blue socks tie your look together.
All eyes turn to Indianapolis this week, as the Winter Meetings start today. While there, Brewer management would most likely jump at any chance to unload the contract of Jeff Suppan. Tom H. floated the idea of a Suppan-for-Juan Pierre deal, while Jorge Says No! wonders if Jeff Suppan and prospects for Gil Meche makes sense (Also noted in Rumorville). For whatever it's worth, the Meche deal is probably unlikely unless one of the Brewers' top prospects is involved. Apparently the Mets have also contacted the Royals to ask about him.
Other pre-meeting buzz:
- Tom H. has a winter meeting preview with some stuff you've heard before and a Doug Melvin complaint about cost uncertainty.
- Steve Henson of Yahoo says the Brewers are more likely to look for free agents than trades to fill the gaps in their rotation and bench.
- Adam McCalvy has a look at some of the prospects that could be mentioned if the Brewers decide to make a deal, but acknowledges the fact that the Brewers don't have the organizational depth to make a major splash via that route.
- Apparently Edwin Jackson, one trade candidate the Brewers have expressed interest in, could find a new home soon.
- Meanwhile, Yahoo is reporting that multiple teams are interested in Doug Davis, but the only candidate they're naming at this point is the Crew.
If you weren't around over the weekend, Noah did a great job in the weekend Mug of covering reaction to the Gregg Zaun deal. Here are a few more nuggets on Zaun I spotted this morning:
- Adam McCalvy tweeted that Zaun's deal includes $600,000 in incentives tied to games started, which could push the total guaranteed value up to $2.75 million if Ken Macha is unwilling to let one of the young guys play.
- Fire Doug Melvin is not excited about the decision to guarantee Zaun the starting job.
The Zaun move inspired Casa de Machado to throw in the towel for 2010, complete with this quote:
I think are chances in 2010 are slim to none.
It's like this picture and The Iron Sheik's Twitter all rolled in to one. (h/t to the Former Hacks for the Sheik link)
I know at least some of you attended the Brewer Clubhouse Sale over the weekend. Did you find anything good? Did you show up in this WISN story?
Just one transaction note today:
Indians: Signed former Twin Brian Buscher to a minor league deal.
Some free agent deals might get done at the Winter Meetings this week, but don't expect John Lackey to be one of them: Lackey is believed to be seeking $17 million+ per year for at least six years, and it'll take some time for his price to fall back into a range that isn't laughable.
Six years and $102 million would probably earn Lackey honorable mention on Big League Stew's list of the worst ten contracts of the 2000s. Click that link if you'd like to feel better about the Brewer tenure of Doug Melvin: All ten contracts mentioned are clearly worse than Jeff Suppan's deal.
Looking for a buy-low rotation candidate? Diamond Notes mentions the Dodgers are expected to have interest in Chien-Ming Wang, when/if the Yankees announce their decision to non-tender him for next season. Assuming the price is right, one would think the Brewers might be interested too.
Speaking of the Dodgers, they're continuing to cut costs by attempting to deal George Sherrill.
On this day in 2005, the Brewers traded Lyle Overbay (along with Ty Taubenheim) to the Blue Jays for David Bush, Gabe Gross and Zach Jackson, clearing the way for Prince Fielder to take over at first base in 2006. Overbay has hit .275/.356/.449 over four seasons as a Blue Jay.
On this day in 2007, the Brewers acquired Salomon Torres from the Pirates for two minor leaguers. Torres posted a 3.49 ERA and saved 28 games for the 2008 Brewers.
Happy birthday today to Jim Austin, who posted a 3.06 ERA while making 83 relief appearances as a Brewer between 1991 and 1993, and turns 46.
Oh, and it looks like winter is now upon us, so it may be time to bust out the solar powered hat and gloves. Or just stay home and watch the Pride and Prejudice with Zombies miniseries. (h/t C. Trent Rosecrans)
Drink up.
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Sure did end up on WISN
Lurking in the background and one good shot up front. Not going to say who, just in case Doug starts a vendetta against me. ;)
FDM/Sgt's comment
“Patterson was called up because he promised his agent he would, what makes anyone think that Doug doesn’t intend to live up to his 4 out 5 days promise?”
FWIW, Patterson’s callup was in his freaking contract. Why it was in his contract, I have no idea. I doubt the guarantee of 4 of 5 is in Zaun’s contract. In fact, Melvin was obligated to call up Patterson (okay…he could have also released Patterson outright, but couldn’t have left him in the minors), but he was not guaranteed playtime. That falls on Macha’s shoulders. Zaun’s playtime will fall on Macha as well, although I’m sure Melvin has a bit of say on that as well.
No word on contractual agreement.
Only that he promised. Source
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports Milwaukee Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he promised OF Corey Patterson’s agent, Jim Bronner, to call up his client on Friday, Sept. 4, if he was playing well, which he was (.331, five HRs, 22 RBIs in 29 games). Melvin said assistant general manager Gord Ash ‘talked to (Triple-A) Nashville about it.’
If the worst thing that happens in 2010 is Gregg Zaun starts 15-20 more games than he should
I think things will be okay.
Which leaves open the question of how many games he should play anyway
Maybe he can handle starting 75-80% of the games. Or maybe he’ll have nagging injuries and make the promise (however binding one feels it is) moot.
Or maybe he'll have nagging injuries and play 130 games anyway. :-)
I agree, it’s certainly not the biggest issue facing the 2010 Brewers. But it’s the timely one, at least until a good rumor/the Rule 5 draft/non-tenders come along.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
" If the worst thing that happens in 2010 is Gregg Zaun starts 15-20 more games than he should"
so you are saying he will start 175 games?
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Dec 7, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
If those 15 to 20 games are in the postseason...
I’m okay with that!
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
Don't get me wrong here..
I think the Zaun move was good, minus the part about starting a 39 year old catcher 4 out of 5 days. That’s the part that scares me.
WISN may have found Seth's biggest fan.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
He wouldn't settle for anything less than Seth McClung himself.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
You mean they offer non-tendered Free Agents at the Clubouse sale?
Do you get to negotiate a contract with them?
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
from mlbtr
9:54am: Joel Sherman of the New York Post notes that if he accepts arbitration, Soriano cannot be traded before June 1st without his permission.
I feel slightly better about not offering arbitration to Lopez, but still… He woudln’t have accepted it…
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
That's the only thing that makes not offering arbitration make a little more sense to me
If there is a rule preventing guys who accept arbitration from being traded. I haven’t seen that rule anywhere else but it’s not surprising it exists, I suppose.
Rule doesn't prevent them from being traded
It prevents them from being traded without their permission. So, in the worst case scenario Lopez accepts and comes to camp in a non-starting role, at which point he’d probably accept a trade to go somewhere and play. If he agrees to sit on the bench for a year, he’s just decreasing his own value for when he’s a free agent again next year.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
why bother accepting arb, then?
Knowing you could negotiate a contract with a team of your choosing, rather than getting traded to a team of the Brewers’ choosing.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Granted, hindsight is 20/20
But I think the money issue is a pretty moot point considering what Placido Polanco got.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I miss Lyle Overbay
Let’s trade for him and pitch him 5th in the rotation. He’d no doubt give up only a few more doubles than he hits!
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 Minutes for Deking a Duper Deke that made a Duper Duck.
Overbay was my favorite Brewer during his tenure.
I still think the team made a mistake by not keeping him around and trying to find a place for him to play. On a team that’s had a lot of swing-and-miss guys lately, a .350 OBP with lots of doubles would have looked really nice batting #2 or #5.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
I was a little surprised at the time
and I didn’t even follow the Brewers all that closely. He was one of the few names I recognized as a casual fan. Was there a lot of value placed on Jackson as a possible contributor to the major league club?
There was a decent amount of value placed on Jackson.
Many people saw him as a good #3 type if I recall correctly.
So in hindsight
Was Bush a little undervalued and Jackson a little overvalued, or was everything pretty well square? Overall it seems like a pretty good trade for both teams.
I liked Overbay also
but saying he was your favorite Brewer in 03 and 04 seems like faint praise. I mean who else were you going to root for Chad Moeller? Victor Santos?
by Infield Fly Rule on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Other 2005 Brewers one could feasibly have liked:
Rickie Weeks
J.J. Hardy
Russell Branyan
Carlos Lee
Brady Clark (when he was still good)
Geoff Jenkins
Ben Sheets
Chris Capuano (and his 18 wins)
Derrick Turnbow (and his sub 2.00 ERA)
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Looking at his minor league stats...
It doesn’t look like Overbay would have been able to play anywhere else… at least not well. He played a little OF (mostly LF) early in his career, but I don’t know how well he would have transitioned.
I agree, however, that it would have been nice to have him and Fielder in the same lineup.
Forgot to mention
That tickets to spring training games at Maryvale go on sale today!
Chien-Ming Wang would be an interesting match for the Brewers
He’ll most likely be looking for a cheap 1-year deal to reprove himself, and because of his atrocious performance last season he’ll probably fly under the radar compared to guys like Harden/Sheets/Bedard.
He’s an injury risk, but if he can return to form he’s great. The projection systems like him having a bounce-back year too. Seems like a good gamble for the Brewers.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
A bad match?
He’s a groundball machine and Escobar is the only plus infield defender that will be a starter next year. That’s not a great combination.
Given the lack of really good defensive players projected as starters right now (basically Escobar and Gomez), you ideally want a power pitcher who won’t show up the bad defense. Sadly those are more expensive.
by kingcharlesxii on Dec 7, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think McGehee is getting a bum rap defensively
Remember, he played most of last season on a bad knee. I’d like to see what he can do when healthy before I declare him a bad defender.
Also, Weeks’ range isn’t terrible, and he was looking better defensively last spring before his injury.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Perhaps
I also think McGehee is underrated but we’ll have to see how he moves after his surgery.
I still think Weeks’ ceiling at 2nd is average. If we still had Counsell, I could see starting him when Wang starts. It would probably be worth the hit in offense, even if he doesn’t hit like 2009.
by kingcharlesxii on Dec 7, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
I remember reading something (on either ESPN or SI) before last season that Weeks’ range was ranked above average.
Range yes
But I’d say he’s well below average on both turning the double play and reliability once he gets to the ball. It’s certainly possible he could improve on it but his range will likely decrease as he gets older.
by kingcharlesxii on Dec 7, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Aside from the fact that I think a pitcher who turns most of his outs on groundballs up the middle is exactly what you want with Escobar on the team, don’t forget that all of Wang’s success in his career came with a pretty poor Yankees defense behind him (which was even worse with Giambi at 1B instead of Teixeira)
He induces a lot of ground-balls but he’s a very good pitcher either way. The fact that he’ll be so cheap and possibly overlooked is what makes him a good match.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Dec 7, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
I was going to start a Speculationville post about Wang a couple of days ago
But I didn’t know if I was allowed to or not.
He seems like a low risk, high upside kind of guy to me.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
Well, anytime you have a player named
Chien Ming Wang, you’re looking at risk of pun.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sweet
so they’re trying to get worse.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Pitching Options
Padres are rumored to be non-tendering Kevin Correia
Another decent option, and wasn’t he a trade target for us at the deadline?
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
The Brewers, in need of starting pitching, are making a strong push for free-agent left-hander Randy Wolf, according to major-league sources.
“They’ve shown they’re very interested,” according to one source with knowledge of the discussions.
Wolf, 33, went 11-7 with a 3.23 ERA for the Dodgers last season, pitching a career-high 214 1/3 innings. The Dodgers did not offer him salary arbitration, so any team that signs him will not forfeit a draft pick as compensation.
The Brewers, who are looking for multiple starting pitchers to go with right-hander Yovani Gallardo, might be reluctant to give Wolf anything beyond a two-year deal.
General manager Doug Melvin has indicated that he would not make the same mistake he did when he signed free-agent right-hander Jeff Suppan to a four-year, $42 million contract after the 2006 season. — Ken Rosenthal
The First Step
Glad to see that El ’Stache is finally admitting the Suppan contract was a mistake. They always say the first and hardest step is admitting the mistake.
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 7, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Noo!
Carl Pavano to accept arbitration from the Twins. Damn, I was hoping to see him on the Brewers.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
Its funny
that even Pavano and his agent don’t look at his 4.00 FIP.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 7, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
In other news
Braden Looper wants to sign with the Cubs, probably because he feels bad that he didn’t help the Brewers at all last year and wants to give us our moneys worth.
I suppose
if Braden wants to spend time with every team in the NL Central, he’d better get crackin’, and the Cubs would still be on his to-do list.
Cam as a Cub stings a bit. This…not so much.
You've got a couple screws missin' up in your toolbox, if you think that you'll stop this man from hittin' moonshots.
Can't believe
No one commented on the Suppan for Juan Pierre rumor. I was coming see what kind of snark this would bring and I’m a little shocked.
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Cincinnati
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Houston
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Milwaukee
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
St. Louis
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
(updated 2.4.2012 at 3:41 PM CST)
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