Wednesday's Frosty Mug
Some things to read while making your pitch to Gatorade.
It's been roughly 24 hours since we were told the Brewers were "very close" to a deal with Randy Wolf, but said deal has yet to materialize. Both Tom H. and Buster Olney are saying the Brewers are expecting a response today, now that Arn Tellem has had a day to shop the offer around, but reportedly hasn't found anyone willing to match it. Other notes on Wolf:
- Tom H. says he "gets the feeling that the Brewers are suprised that Randy Wolf hasn't accepted their three-year offer yet."
- Jayson Stark heard that the Brewers' offer to Wolf was bigger than the three year, $28 million deal the Braves recently gave Tim Hudson.
- Jon Heyman tweeted that the Mets don't appear likely to land Wolf, and while MLB Trade Rumors lists them as showing interest in five other pitchers, Heyman says the price of mid-level pitching might drive them to spend a little more in pursuit of John Lackey.
- The Junkball Blues has a look at the average return teams get on three year contracts to starting pitchers. There are some good ones (Greg Maddux, Andy Pettitte, A.J. Burnett), but also some disasters (Adam Eaton, Jason Schmidt, Carl Pavano).
- Jorge Says No! wonders about the wisdom of offering Wolf a third year, but says the Brewers' willingness to do it implies they don't think they can sign Prince Fielder to a long term deal.
By the way, over two months ago Jorge Says No! predicted Wolf would get three years, $31 million on the open market. Impressive.
I feel the need to clarify my position on the Wolf rumor a bit, because I feel I was a little hard on the front office in this one act play last night. I still don't think Wolf wants to play in Milwaukee, which is why Arn Tellem has spent the last 24 hours searching for anyone on a coast willing to match the Brewers' offer. With that said, I'll give credit where credit is due to the front office for finding the guy they wanted and being aggressive in an attempt to get him here. If it turns out that the scenario I laid out is true and Tellem was just using the Brewers to raise the price for someone else, so be it. At least we're talking about the Brewers making an effort, and not hearing the reasons why they can't.
Meanwhile, the Brewers are close to a deal to bring Claudio Vargas back for another season, and are just waiting for formal acceptance from Vargas and his agent (FanShot). Conversation on the deal is probably complicated a bit by the fact that Vargas is currently in the Dominican Republic pitching in winter ball.
They're also expecting an answer sometime today from Craig Counsell, who may or may not be seeking a two year deal for next season. It sounds like Counsell and his agent spent the day yesterday checking out other options. Don't be surprised if a deal gets done relatively quickly.
Ken Macha told reporters yesterday that Yovani Gallardo and Manny Parra are the only pitchers guaranteed a spot in the Brewer rotation next season, implying that Dave Bush and Jeff Suppan will have to compete to earn an opportunity (FanShot). Open competition should be good for all involved, especially if the Crew manages to bring in some high-upside pitchers to compete.
Tom H. has all of those notes (and a terrible headline) in his roundup piece today, along with this note: The 40 man roster is starting to fill up, so don't be surprised if the Brewers decide not to take a chance on a Rule 5 pick in tomorrow's draft. I think that's a poor decision. Among others, Tim Dillard and Luis Cruz could probably pass through waivers without much notice. Passing on a cheap lottery ticket to protect one of those guys doesn't seem to make sense.
In the minors:
- Project Prospect has a look at the speed of several Brewers who recently performed in the Arizona Fall League. Jonathan Lucroy appears to be in about the middle of the pack, while Taylor Green rated out way on the low end. They mustn't have had enough data to publish a ranking for Lorenzo Cain.
- Angel Salome will be the next Brewer prospect to head out for winter ball: He's reportedly leaving at the end of the week to play for Este in the Dominican League. You can keep up with him and all the Brewer winter leaguers in our Winter League Updates.
We're continuing the effort to put together a BCB All Decade Team, and if you haven't cast your first votes yet, there's still time. Voting at first base will remain open until 4 pm today, and voting at second base runs until 4 pm tomorrow. Check back later today to vote for a shortstop.
Around baseball:
Braves: Designated outfielder Ryan Church for assignment.
D-Backs: Acquired pitchers Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy in a three way deal that sent Curtis Granderson to the Yankees and outfielder Austin Jackson and pitchers Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth and Phil Coke to the Tigers.
Mets: Signed 1B/3B Mike Hessman to a minor league deal.
Nationals: Signed outfielder Jerry Owens to a minor league deal.
Phillies: Signed Ross Gload to a two year deal.
Pirates: Are expected to sign Bobby Crosby to a one year deal.
Tigers: Signed catcher Robinzon Diaz, who was recently released by the Pirates.
Twins: Designated Boof Bonser for assignment.
White Sox: Signed Mark Teahen to a three year, $14 million deal, avoiding arbitration.
Yankees: Will receive the #1 pick in tomorrow's Rule 5 Draft as the PTBNL in the Brian Bruney trade.
Meanwhile, Gritty von Canthitalick Jason Kendall continues to search for work, but there's more suitors than you might think: The Rangers are reportedly strongly considering Kendall, now that Jarrod Saltalamacchia injured his shoulder playing winter ball. The Royals have also expressed interest.
From surprising news to what might possibly be the week's least surprising news: John Lackey is having a hard time finding a team willing to offer him a six year deal.
Actually, this might be the most surprising news: Kudos to the BBWAA for their decision to allow Sean Forman of Baseball Reference to join their organization.
We could have used this days ago, but Dave Cameron of FanGraphs has a guide to deciphering sources in Winter Meeting rumors. Again today, the meetings provide us with some things you might never have known without the internet, and wouldn't have missed:
- Michael Tucker, who hasn't played in the majors since 2006, is in Indianapolis and wants to play next season.
- Rangers pitcher C.J. Wilson heard about a trade offer the Diamondbacks made for him and was offended by it.
- C. Trent Rosecrans gave the Meetings' Best Hat Award to Manny Acta.
- Blue Jays beat reporter Jordan Bastian gives us a look at the hotel lobby, complete with Christmas tree.
- Jonathan Mayo of MiLB.com had to step away from the meetings for a moment to help his mom figure out the TV.
On this day in 1977, the Brewers traded pitchers Jim Slaton and Rich Folkers to the Tigers for Ben Oglivie. The 29 year old Panama native would spend the last nine years of his career as a Brewer, hitting .277/.345/.461, leading the AL with 41 home runs in 1980, and appearing in three All Star games.
Happy birthday today to:
- Doc Medich, who made the final ten starts of his major league career for the 1982 Brewers, and turns 61.
- Ed Romero, who spent parts of eight seasons as a Brewer in the late 70's and 80's and later served as a minor league infield coordinator and manager. He turns 52.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some snowblowing to do.
Drink up.
0 recs |
91 comments
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Comments
Bob Nightengale just tweeted
The crew is making a strong push for LaTroy Hawkins.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Is a cliff involved
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Dec 9, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
why?
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Because Seth McClung is too expensive
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Dec 9, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe, if Gatorade signs him to a deal, he can take a pay cut from the Brewers.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Do they make a ginger infused drink?
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Dec 9, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
if he had actually pitched decently in '09 he wouldn't be
unfortunately for him, there are better, cheaper pitchers out there.
But LaTroy Hawkins isn't either of those
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Dec 9, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not qualified to say whether signing Wolf is a good idea or not...
… let alone say how much $ they should give him.
BUT, I’d laugh my ass off if they pull the offer, sign Davis (or someone else) and he signs a 2 year deal with the Mets for 10 million less than the Brewers have on the table.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 9, 2009 10:47 AM CST reply actions
Wolf
Does anyone else think that since the Brewers are the only ones willing to give Wolf that third year, that they really shouldnt be signing him at all?
If KL is right, and they are being used in this deal, and that Wolf doesnt really want to play here, does the amount, and the fact there is a contract out there that only the Brewers are offering, show the incompetence (or maybe desperation) of DM?
I think hes only worth $18 – $20 mil at most if you give him 3 years. I realize there is a premium for an FA win, but 3 years/ $27 ,mil is the same per year deal that the Mariners just gave to Chone Figgins (a 6 win player last year).
Id love to see DM take Dave Dombrowski’s lead and see what he could get by dangling Fielder. The Tigers even after losing one of their best pitchers, and an all star CF, will probably contend next year in a weak AL Central, and will be dramatically improved going forward. Take notice Dougie boy!
I agree
I seriously think its a bad idea to go a 3rd year, in particular. I also think the net value will be far and away too much money for Wolf. Sure he’ll be a decent #3 for 3 years…but we already severely overpaid for a guy that was supposed to be a decent #3.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Backtocali I wanted to apologize for my earlier statements in "who should replace DM?"
You’ve been making a lot more sense lately as opposed to when you first came on the scene.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
No need for any of that
I just love talking baseball.
I tend to have some out there ideas, but in the past 3 years I have begun to do my homework and really research things. Just imagine how much of an ass I was before I started learning. And just imagine if I were able to devote more time to this endeavor (my employer might disagree on that one).
Im just happy I found this site and can find people who even if they dont agree wont immediately write you off completely. Much more civil tone here than other Brewer sites.
jeesh kl, now you're really positive about the breweres!?!
what do you work for the flag station? //sarcasm
The fact that the contract may me for more money than Hudson’s tells me already to not do the deal.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
If we're talking LaTroy Hawkins
I guess I’m not sure, still, why Kiko Calero isn’t under consideration.
But whatever, I guess.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
If we're burning money on mid-level relief arms
Then I don’t understand why they were so afraid Lopez would accept arbitration.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Agreed
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Rule 5
The fact you have to keep whoever you pick on the 25-man roster makes that lottery pick more “expensive.” That and the fact the talent has been diluted thanks to the additional year before players become eligible makes it understandable why it’s not a big priority to pick.
I think there was a deadline yesterday regarding removing guys from the 40-man roster in order to pick in the Rule 5 draft. Probably has to do with the 48 hour waiver period or something. That said, if they really do want to pick someone, they can just keep having trouble finding Claudio Vargas until the non-tenders are off the roster.
latroy?
vomit in mouth
"This one means 'Kill Kirk!!!!'... And also, 'hallelujah'... Depending on the context."
I'm just curious why
I know he was a disaster as a closer back in the day but he strikes me as a decent setup guy. I’m sure he’ll wind up overpaid, though.
I just have bad thoughts on him, like Mota esque, though I know after looking at his stats that he's not bad
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
Mota is a good come
I was thinking “Julio,” but that’s a bit too severe.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
All were a little too Riske for my tastes
see what I did there?
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Seriously
did you see his ERA in 2007?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Your title
TWSS?
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Yeah
Should have read “comp.” My fingers are still frozen.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
he had a good last year
i just remember all of what he did for the cubs. just hoping last year wasn’t a fluke
"This one means 'Kill Kirk!!!!'... And also, 'hallelujah'... Depending on the context."
by trippingandy on Dec 9, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Paying any relief pitcher that is outside of the top tier of "closers" more than about $1.5 million
Strikes me as a complete waste. Replacement level for a reliever whose leverage will be around 1 is around 4.45. If you project Hawkins for 4, and you project Axford or someone like him for maybe 4.2, that’s just a waste of a non-minimum contract. Especially when they’re acting like there’s no money available to offer arb to Lopez and Cameron.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
I'd rather have us go internal on this one.
I think Axford or Butler would do just fine.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
You are clearly clairvoyant, TheJay
Waay too much for Hawkins. 2yrs/$7.5 mil
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Dec 9, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
And I'm back to being disappointed.
Did Melvin lose a bet?
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
Wolf update on Twitter
@TBrownYahoo Randy Wolf will agree today to sign with Brewers — 3 years, just under $30 million.
Get a ife broseph
You sly fox
or should I say, “You sly wolf.”
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
You were to busy putting together links and actually citing proper sources
I went with the lazy-man copy/paste.
Get a ife broseph
I sort of hope Randy Wolf is a liar
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Dec 9, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
TH just posted a blog entry
Deal is for 3 years with a club option on year 4
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/78880087.html
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
with a bad omen included in the post as well...
I’ve been told that both general manager Doug Melvin and owner Mark Attanasio had lunch with Wolf last week in LA, much like they courted Jeff Suppan three years ago.
DO NOT START COMPARING YOUR NEW SIGNEE TO SUPPAN!!! YOU ARE JUST ASKING FOR BAD THINGS TO HAPPEN!!!
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
And with Mark A. along
He wasn’t forced to stick to the dollar menu,
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
by Kyle Lobner on Dec 9, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be more worried
if they’d had lunch at Soup’s Grill.
You've got a couple screws missin' up in your toolbox, if you think that you'll stop this man from hittin' moonshots.
Rosenthal has the deal at 3 years 29 MIL
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Here's hoping the $29M includes the buyout of the fourth year
When there is a scuffle in Ireland, there’s no need to specifically mention in the news story that alcohol was involved
by Getting Yosted on Dec 9, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Tim Brown says that the Brewers are going to sign Wolf today for 3 years, just under $30MM
h/t mlbtr
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Suppan will have to compete
And what exactly do you do with him if he finishes sixth? Pitch him out of the pen?
Use him for Julio duty
Put him out when we’re up 10-1 and watch the game get interesting again
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
Make him carry the pink backpack
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Swiper no swiping?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
40-man roster
There are two spots open right now. It’ll be interesting to see what they do if they want to sign Wolf, Vargas, Hawkins, and Counsell before Saturday.
Luis Cruz is expendable.
If somebody claims him, he’s not exactly irreplaceable.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Deal done?
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 11:31 AM CST reply actions
Rosenthal says the deal is done.
no $ specifics yet
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Rule 5 pick
So the Nationals currently have 40 players (including “Emperor” Atahualpa Severino) on their roster. How are they going to pick someone to trade to the Yankees? I guess I assumed they had to pick before trading so the player was on paper a National but maybe that’s not the case.
29 mil.
Makes me ill.
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions
Too much money, IMO
But we do need him.
Catch 22, and whatnot
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
but shouldn't there be a line in the sand?
negotiating works best when you can walk away. yes, the brewers need pitching. but do they have to get it at the price of a contract they’ll probably regret in year 2?
if not, then you might as well start comparing to suppan… (i am obviously against this deal and would’ve favored pursuing justin d, erik b, rich h, etc…)
but to KL’s point, if this is the guy the FO legitimately thought was the best option and he’s well within their negotiating range, and they love everything about this deal, then kudos to them for getting it done. and i think randy’s agent was smart to shop the deal, regardless of randy’s preferences (who’s to say he doesn’t want to be in milwaukee). for anyone who hasn’t graduated yet, when you get an offer from an company, you don’t just accept it, you shop it around to other companies when they give you an offer. “i’d love to work for you guys, i think the people there are great, i love [city], and i think it’d be a great place to start a career. but [company y] is offering me $Y and a $Z bonus, which is more than you guys. is there any flexibility on that?” there usually is.
by Capt Science on Dec 9, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
I think they should still be pursuing Duchserereejkbefef
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
You mustn't have graduated recently
In the current environment, it’s more like “You’re hiring? I’ll take it.”
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
i am old
so, no, i haven’t graduated recently. but after a company makes an offer, there usually is some room. worst case is that they say no (of course, you could argue that you may have made a counter-offer and legally they can pull back their offer, but that’s not likely).
we’re doing some hiring and people are still negotiating. but it’s less than in the past.
I'm kind of in the same boat
I think it’d be hard to argue that the Brewers got a bargain with this signing. Odds are also good that they are going to regret the 3rd year. However once they decided they were going to keep Prince (that’s a whole other discussion), they had to make a move in FA and I don’t blame them for this signing.
Maybe my opinion will change once the market shakes out and other pitchers sign elsewhere, but for now I’m OK with this.
Get a ife broseph
He's had a history of arm trouble and will be 35 in the last year of the contract
I think that’s the main reason most (if any?) teams were hesitant to offer 3 years.
Get a ife broseph
There's no way Bush makes $9.5M next year.
Did you mean Wolf? Also, Gallardo is going to make something like $0.5M next year, with his first year of arbitration coming after Suppan is gone, so it does sort of work out nicely.
The most disturbing item from today's mug.....
“Ken Macha told reporters yesterday that Yovani Gallardo and Manny Parra are the only pitchers guaranteed a spot in the Brewer rotation next season…”
What exactly did Parra do to guarantee himself a spot in the rotation?? Previous to his forearm injury, Bush actually pitched reasonably. At what point in his career has Parra strung any number of decent starts together??
Of the five probable Brewers starters (Bush, Suppan, Parra, Gallardo and Wolf)
Parra had the third best FIP last year, by all accounts he has fantastic stuff, left handed starters are very valuable, and he has phenomenal upside.
aw, nuts, I was right
Tom H tweets that “Seth McClung is probably heading for a non-tender.” Thanks, expensive free agent signings!
/goes off to cry really hard
There will be no Brewcrewade with hopps. (sic)
Now, if they used Cascade hops, I’d definitely give it a shot.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
So the team loses a nice guy, but gains a better pitcher (who's also a great clubhouse guy)... net gain = happy me.
I know I need to look at this rationally
and I know I shouldn’t have got so attached, but I did, and it sucks because now I’m really, really sad and nothing has concretely happened yet.
On the other hand, it’s not like he’s totally out for 2010 (DiFelice ::sob::) and I’m perfectly capable of watching other teams along with the Brewers.
Oh come now
you’re only saying you’re sad because you know he’s stopped by here before.
Right?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Mark DiFelice reads BCB?
I thought my fannishness about McClung was a pretty well-known fact around here. At least now that he’s acknowledged reading nobody’s accused me of being him recently ;)
ha
whatever, Seth.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
at least he wouldn't have to move
The Rays are apparently interested in Every Free Agent Reliever Ever this winter, but ones they’ve already discarded? Maybe.






























