about 2 years ago
Mykenk
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2 Years
according to his next tweet.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
and Big McC all rolled into one.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
This makes me think that they're not going to try for another SP through FA
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
That was never in the cards
Considering the salary pressures. My guess it was used to try to drive down prices.. (We can always go with other SP we are talking to)
Something like the Hart for Maine deal would make some sense too
Jeff Francis would be an interesting target. He’s on a really affordable deal.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
me too
but jesus christ, 7.5MM is WAY too much.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
It's too much, but not WAY too much.
3M a year would have been about right, IMO.
Too bad Riske/DiFelice made this signing necessary, but it is what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good pitcher
and I think he’ll be very valuable to the team. But that’s just too much to pay for a middle reliever when that money can be spent on a Starter, IMO. Although, if Bush is nontendered or Hart is traded, I won’t mind it as much.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
agreed
for the most part. Although I think Hawkins is ridiculously overpaid. He IS 37, afterall.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
I would be shocked if we stand pat with our Starting 5
I dont know how much money is left in the pot but I’d put the safe money on either signing a pitcher in January on a 1yr deal like a Harden or trading Hart for a 4 pitcher with moderate upside
Ring Out Ahoya!
no one has anything yet.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Nightengale just tweeted
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Seriously?!?
Yeah… that seems like a lot to me.
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 9, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
so now you have in the late innings
7th of Coffey
8th of Hawkins
9th of Hoffman
and when Suppan pitches, you have 4-5th of villanueva, 6th of narveson………..
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Nah, Narveson will probably be in the rotation
I hope he is, in any case, as your point about his relieving Suppan all the time stands….
Baseball Reference
Just looked him up on BR with an open mind….
- comp…. Braden Looper… Not good
But a career ERA+ of 104 and WHIP of 1.4 but has not pitched 65+ innings since 2004
3.75M/year seems high too
Well, really
there’s a discrepancy between perceived value and real value.
That doesn’t mean Hawkins hasn’t been overpaid, though.
But I think you get that, you’re just driving at one or the other.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
People need to realize that we are not a place where we can pay market price
No one sets Milwaukee as a destination of choice so to get a player in the offseason we have to be willing to throw money at him.
Doug knows he Fed up with Suppan and is taking another chance with Wolf and Hawkins knowing full well that if these two don’t work out in two years coupled with whether or not Prince is still a Brewer he could very well be out of a job.
Let the man work and lets wait until the season to criticize him.
Ring Out Ahoya!
That doesn't mean you should sign middle relievers to $3.5MM deals
That could be done internally.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Maybe...
The mustache is thinking the Riske deal was just a fluke…and was somehow given a free pass by the fans to do sign another reliever to an overpriced deal….
by TheBurningRom on Dec 9, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
2007 was his best year in 5 years, and 3rd best of his career, and came before he was to be a free agent
Yes the years and dollars weren’t all THAT bad, but in all honesty a guy who’s FIP is 2 whole points (4.45 vs. 2.45) above his ERA should be viewed with a LOT more skepticism.
Its not like he was going from New York to Milwaukee and they had to over pay him.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Agree completely
Maybe Melvin wouldn’t have to cry about being a small market team if he didn’t tie so much money up in stupid contracts and bullpen arms.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
So
With Hoffman, Riske, Hawkins (assuming 3.75 this year) and the raises due Coffey (let’s say 2M) and Villanueva (let’s say 1M), you’re looking at a nearly 20M bullpen.
That’s idiotic.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
By what?
$2M?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if
they’ll put Suppan in the bullpen. That would put it around $33M
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Suppan seems to be a guy who takes a while to warm up… not sure how well he’d be suited in the bullpen.
Or not letting him pitch at all.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
and based on how he performs as a starter
he’s probably not suited to play baseball, hm?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
minus 20mph on the fastball
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
One big difference...
Even the robo-version of Suppan can’t be programmed to throw as hard as Turnbow ever did.
by Infield Fly Rule on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
well, it is what it is
there’s a lot of talk in this and the wolf discussion about what’s worth what. but i think there’s more of a market v. philosophy debate buried in there. i think people posting here don’t like to spend a lot on relievers, and this is just more of that.
but to be fair, if you look at hawkins’ salaries the last few years, it’s right in that range. and if you look at his numbers, they aren’t really getting worse (you could argue he’s due or that this is his level).
so the FO probably looked at this and said he covered well for valverde and he’s been okay for a few years, so he could be an asset. and so if this is what they wanted to do, congratulations to them on getting their guy. not what i would’ve done, but that’s maybe why i work in an different industry.
I think there's a major difference between market value and need.
For example, we can pretty clearly establish the market price of a new refrigerator. If I paid something around market price for one, you could argue I got a fair deal.
But, I have a working refrigerator (and a tight budget) now, so spending anything on a fridge, whether I got it at market value or not, is a poor use of resources.
That's all I've got for you today, unless you're interested in some Chris Capuano/Tom Haudricourt Fan Fiction.
What does that have to do with fast food?
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Too much money
So long Big Seth. You’ll be missed.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
The Gentle Ginger
Best of Luck with your new team, you will always be welcome at BCB.
BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.
by MadJimiBrewha on Dec 9, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still holding out hope.
When he signs with another team is when I will be LIVID.
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe this is all a plan to get Kevin Millwood
And steal him away from the Orioles who are apparently about to trade a reliever for him.
yeah, he's actually pretty damn good. Not sure what the issue is here.
although since he’ll probably be closing in 2011, there’s a potential issue there, but, w/e.
Its my Kiko Calero mancrush
K/9 was better
ERA was better
BB/9 and K/BB were worse
HR/9 was better
OPP AVG was better
WHIP was better
BABIP was a bit more lucky
He’s 3 years younger than Hawkins. And he’ll probably get less money.
But, as KL pointed out in another thread, if we’re spending money on mid-relief arms, why was Dougie so afraid to offer arb to Lopez?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Weeks and Lopez are best friends actually
Plus Lopez plays shorstop too, so there’s now way that Weeks didn’t want Lopez back. Idiotic move by the stache.
by Donald Driver on Dec 9, 2009 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
Also forgot
Calero:
ERA: 1.95
FIP: 2.56
tRA: 2.49
tRA+: 145
Hawkins:
ERA: 2.13
FIP: 3.97
tRA: 5.25
tRA+: 98
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
HUGE difference in FIP and ERA
1.80 difference not exactly sure what that says. 3rd biggest in the league for relievers last year. Does this mean his defense helped him out a lot or a little? FIP was 3.9 or so….
Big time ground ball pticher, pop ups, fastball curve ball guy.
No big problems with the signing from me, but why go after relievers if your starters have to leave in the 5th?
Id project him at about a $7.9 million for 2 years, so a nice deal, but its kind of like buying $20 gourmet chocolate bars, when you could have been just as fulfilled with a Snickers, and you really should be on a diet anyway. (i.e. You should be eating a healthy meal (starting pitching (not McDonalds (Wolf?), and you bought expensive junk food, when you had a drawer full of Halloween Candy at your desk already (McClung).
by backtocali on Dec 9, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
worst analogy ever?
seriously, just painful to read that one
by placidity on Dec 9, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It couldnt possibly be
You havent heard Allll of the analogies in the history of the world have you?
by backtocali on Dec 9, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
wouldn't harden be more of a chik-fil-a?
incredible, but closed far more often than the other chains?
by Mykenk on Dec 9, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i could see that
but have you had jack’s spicy chicken and ads (please make your own analogy to k rate or something like that).
also, jack still feels some heat for the e coli disaster of the 1990’s which is like harden being injury prone.
although i guess chick-fil-a is closed on sundays, so that’s like automatically missing 14% of the season. hmmmm….
Backtocali's subsequent post...
only makes me agree with Mykenk all the more on this one.
Applying Simpsons and Star Wars quotes to Brewers discussions since 2009.
anyway
they’re opening the chick-fil-a in texas, apparently.
(harden said to be going to rangers) (via MLBTR)
I see a post by KL coming soon on this
A well balanced meal compared to the Brewers
Yankees are a 5 course meal from Lake Park Bistro
Red Sox at Sanford
Brewers?
A full meals worth of comfort food from Perkins?
Steak (or some meaty dish) the offense
Potatoes (pitching staff) although although part of it was burned
Vegetables (a good relief corps)
dessert (Braun putting up mvp type numbers)
drink (good defense)
I suppose McClung as a drawer full of Halloween Candy
sounds about right. My apologies
I don't know why
But I thought this response was really funny. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
good deal.
I would have been ecstatic with that deal. I wonder what kind of incentives are built in.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
This could go into the BCB hall of fame for best ever first comment
I love the sequence of responses in this subthread. That’s good stuff.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Payroll is probably close to or over $80M now
Gonna need to trade someone if they want another pitcher. Unless they’re counting on Mulder.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
The only ones with contracts are Suppan, Fielder, Hoffman, Riske, Zaun and Gomez. The rest are just estimates.
yup, that's been the given all along.
But I think they’re pretty solid estimates.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Solid
I agree… just wanted to point that out in case people thought otherwise.
Funny enough… I have a very similar spreadsheet that I’ve been updating the last couple seasons.
we're all huge nerds
me too
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
you are a nerd, not all of us,,,,
Taking shallowness to new depths -- FtJ's blog
by Fatter than Joey on Dec 9, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Hall's contract is absolutely CRIPPLING
Its so depressing when you actually look at that # and think about the situation we’re in.
Be cool, and relax. Take a breath, take ten paces back.
The coolest motherfunker on the planet.
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Dec 9, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
I think it's all the wasted money
Suppan, Hall, Riske, Weathers, Looper adds up quickly. That’s over $25M dollars. That’s an absolute crap ton of waste. Imagine what we could do with that money..
I've got mine at
So we’re really not that far apart.
Does this signify a Bush non-tender and a…someone else trade for a cheaper pitcher? Or is The Mustache done?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Mines
80.9. Depends on how the terms come out. Obviously we are going to have fill the rest of the slots with cheap players. Hurricane as Infield replacement? Who is bench outfield?
Trent Oeltjen?
He’s an NRI.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Iribarren would be more of a fifth outfielder
Since all he can really play on the infield is second base.
I think so.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Wait...
you think Bush is non-tendered? Or they’re done?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
all of it.
No, actually, I think that money will be opened up so that they can sign another pitcher.
Unfortunately that pitcher will be Doug Davis instead of Duchsch/Bedard/Sheets
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I think that's where we will end up disagreeing
I think its more likely that, if the Brewers do decide to non-tender Dave Bush, they will try to trade for a starting pitcher, or pick up a low cost option like Kevin Correia (if he is indeed also non-tendered).
I think Davis will want multiple years and around $7M for each, which I think will end up being too high.
Not to mention the fact that I think its pretty unrealistic to assume there will be 3 LHP in the rotation.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
I was much more conservative on my arb figures (I estimated them a little higher than they might really turn out)
so as not to overestimate how much money was available..
I also used 500k instead of 400k for minimum contracts for the same reasoning.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I am crying too.
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Dec 10, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Here's something that'll make you cry a little more...
That amount doesn’t include his pro-rated signing bonus, which ends up being another $250K.
Every indication is that it isn't going up.
Attanasio likes to allow Melvin flexibility in-season. He has shown he will go up to $90M (2008), but I doubt he will go any higher than that, and I believe he will want to leave money for a mid-season trade if necessary.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
It wouldn't surprise me if it did.
Mark A. could feasably raise payroll to $85MM depending on what they think attendance will look like this year. After 2 straight seasons of 3 million fans, I think it could be justified.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I'm probably a moron...
… but I would have rather had Harden for 1 year at 7.5 million than Hawkins for the same amount.
Of course Harden may had no interest in MKE anyway, or it might have cost us more than 7.5 million to get him to ignore his desire to play elsewhere. It’s not that I don’t like Hawkins. It’s that I’m worried that it means we can’t make another move in the rotation without opening up a significant hole in the lineup.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Dec 9, 2009 5:42 PM CST reply actions
I guess that makes me a moron, too.
Why he is spending on the BUllpen rather than the area of most obvious immediate need is beyond me.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
They needed another guy with ninth-inning experience in case something happens to Hoffman
Or something.
Ohh
that’s how we’re selling it to the fanbase these days?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
Well, maybe not directly, but yeah
General manager Doug Melvin already has his closer in all-time saves leader Trevor Hoffman, but likes the idea of stockpiling multiple relievers with ninth-inning experience.
“It helps,” Melvin said. “We did that with Solomon Torres [in 2008]. If someone falters, you have somebody who’s done it before.”
Yeah I had seen it
I was just building on your sarcasm
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
General manager Doug Melvin already has his closer in all-time saves leader Trevor Hoffman, but likes the idea of stockpiling multiple relievers with ninth-inning experience.
“It helps,” Melvin said. “We did that with Solomon Torres [in 2008]. If someone falters, you have somebody who’s done it before.”
- link
This, however, I did not see
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
nicely done.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, "That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
LaTroy Hawkins isn't very good
There are probably a number of internal options who could put up the same or better numbers, and they don’t cost nearly $8 million exending into their age-38 seasons.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Dec 9, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
FIP, K/9
He’s not bad, I don’t mind having him on the team, I just don’t think the Brewers should be overpaying for middle-relievers.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on Dec 9, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
Also, don't forget
tRA (very bad) and tRA+
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe a tid bit overpaid, but I like the signing.
Their is a lot of fat—player salaries that are just eat at us—that needs to be cut. I think Riske and Suppan should never see a MLB field ever…ever….ever again. Don’t resign them when their contract is up. PRZ
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Dec 10, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Wait...
Now that I remind myself about Riske’s contract and remembering why I didn’t like that signing…
I am reevaluating my initial comments. This was an okay signing with room to set sail for fail.
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Dec 10, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Now my Kiko Calero Mancrush is justified!
At least this fangraphs article agrees with me. Why sign Hawkins to this deal when Calero was better than him, nearly across the board?
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
No way
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, we can do absolutes if you want.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
No it doesn't
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
Ok. You make a good point.
"If we want to sign a Type A free agent, we would lose a second-round pick, but we don't have a way to get picks back. Our whole Draft process needs to be redone."
~Doug Melvin
by Charlie Marlow on Dec 9, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
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