Wednesday's Frosty Mug
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 8:43 AM CST
76 comments
As noted in this FanShot, the biggest news of the day was pretty unexpected: Eric Gagne is a Brewer again. Gagne will make $1.5 million if he makes the team, with several million more in incentives ranging from attainable (make 25 appearances) to unlikely (finish 60 games). He can also become a free agent if he's not on the 40-man roster by March 25. As noted in McCalvy's link above (the second one), the Brewers are now denying any interest in Jason Isringhausen and canceled plans to go see Chad Cordero throw.
Quevedo at the Buffet's reaction to the move was about the same as mine. Chuckie Hacks has a pronounciation guide, in case you've forgotten, and Two-Fisted Slopper has a more sinister explanation.
FanGraphs likes the move, and mentions something that everyone mentions: Gagne pitched better in the second half. That's technically true, but he posted an ERA over 7 in the first half, and carried an ERA over 6.90 well into August. Consider these three pitchers, all 2008 Brewers, in their final appearances of 2009:
Pitcher A: 18 G, 16.1 IP, 1.65 ERA, 10 BB, 15 K
Pitcher B: 18 G, 16.2 IP, 2.70 ERA, 3 BB, 12 K
Pitcher C: 14 G, 18 IP, 1.50 ERA, 4 BB, 19 K
Pitcher A is Guillermo Mota. I didn't see any tears shed when he left. B is Gagne. C is Mark DiFelice, whose opportunity to make the team gets smaller every day.
We've learned a fair amount about Ken Macha's plans for the team over the last couple of days. Yesterday we learned he doesn't plan to start Yovani Gallardo on opening day and will likely bat Rickie Weeks and J.J. Hardy 1-2. We'd previously heard that Jason Kendall will likely see his playing time reduced in 2009. In-Between Hops recaps an old feud between Kendall and Macha from Oakland, and wonders if it might resurface in Milwaukee.
Rich Lederer of Baseball Analysts has taken his pitcher classification one step further, adding walks to the equation. In this new format, Manny Parra is a K+ BB- GB+. My head hurts.
Right Field Bleachers has an interview up (both audio and a transcript) with Lorenzo Cain, who's hoping to be a September callup in 2009.
Over the next few weeks, you'll probably be inundated with photos and video of baseball being played in warm temperatures under sunny skies. For balance, Rattler Radio has taken some photos to remind us why we don't have spring training in Wisconsin.
On the transaction wire:
Pirates: Signed Nate McLouth to a three year deal worth $15.75 million, avoiding arbitration.
Rays: Signed Adam Kennedy to a minor league deal and invited him to camp.
Reds: Signed Edwin Encarnacion to a two year, $7.6 million deal, avoiding arbitration.
The Nationals, already facing accusations and an FBI investigation into questionable practices in international scouting, have another embarrassing story to their credit: 19-year-old shortstop Esmailyn "Smiley" Gonzalez, their 10th ranked prospect according to Baseball America, is actually a 23-year-old named Daniel Lugo. Lugo won the GCL (Rookie) batting title last season, as one would expect a 23-year-old to do.
Reaction has been good for the first day of BCB on Twitter, with 192 readers signed up to follow our updates. If you Twitter and haven't signed up to follow us yet, feel free to do, and if you're finding us this morning for the first time via Twitter, welcome.
Oh, and today is a Woot-off day.
Drink up.
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Pitcher C
mark difelice.
if we’re trying to show how good he is, he’s an even better year end sample:
Pitcher C: 6 G, 6.1 IP, 0.00 ERA, 4 BB, 4 K
man, i can’t believe the brewers keep signing pitchers and making difelice’s chance of making the team smaller!!
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 9:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My point wasn't necessarily DiFelice's greatness.
Although I do think he’s underrated. My point was that people are ridiculously quick to point out that Gagne had a good second half, when they’re analyzing a 16.2 inning sample size that wasn’t even all that special.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a great point (that people are too quick to point to gagne’s small post-injury sample to suggest he’ll be better), it was a great point last year too when people said he was “back” after his stint in texas, and “toast” after his stint in boston.
but what else is melvin going to do but point to recent success to manage the public relation fiasco that is eric gagne?
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He could have left him on the free agent market and stuck with the bullpen options he’s got. That would’ve been my preferred option.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so, you don’t like the deal? really?
also great quotes from melvin via adam regarding gagne:
“He’s got to win a job,” Melvin said. "He came to me at the end of the season and told me he felt he didn’t earn his [salary], that he didn’t pitch the way he wanted to pitch for what he was being paid. He said he felt indebted to us to come back in and give it another shot for us.
“I didn’t expect that, and I respect the fact that he stood up and said, ‘I didn’t pitch well.’ He came to me and said, ’I’m sorry I disappointed you.’ But he pitched well at the end of the year and that’s what counted, so I give him a lot of credit for that.”
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If signed to a deal today
I would not pitch well. I also can admit that.
I’m glad Gagne is a nice guy, I’m glad he made gestures to the team and fanbase at the end of the season in an attempt to make up for poor performance and an obscene salary.
None of that, however, changes the fact that I don’t think he’s one of the seven best candidates to pitch in the bullpen, and I’m concerned he’ll either A) make the team and take a roster spot (and at least $1.5 million) from someone more deserving or B) get a bunch of spring training innings that could be used to evaluate someone who’s actually part of the future of this team, or both.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a veteran pitcher who has seen it all
Even if he’s taking up spring training innings, he can use his time with the team to share his knowledge with some of those younger guys.
I agree with Concern (A), but I think that the knowledge that he can share is just as valuable as the innings he takes up. It was noted somewhere that spring training lasts a little longer due to the WBC, so you can afford to bring an extra pitcher or two to camp.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
concern (a): so you’ve already decided that two of coffey, julio, morlan and difelice are better than gagne?
i can’t imagine honestly being comfortable enough with that assessment that you wouldn’t offer gagne a minor league contract.
at the major leagues:
coffey threw 26 innings last year and 51 bad innings the year before.
julio threw 30 innings last year and 60 bad innings the year before.
difelice threw 19 innings last year and 0 total in all previous years.
morlan threw 0 innings total in all previous years.
gagne threw 46 bad innings last year and 52 mediocre innings the year before.
concern (a) is that the front office, after 6 weeks of spring training, may wrongly perceive gagne as an upgrade over one of coffey/julio/morlan/difelice
sounds like phony-outrage to me.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m concerned about him taking up that money and restricting us from making some sort of move. I feel that talent-wise, he has just a good of a shot at making the team as any of those other guys. I’m actually happy about signing him, but I still have my concerns.
Hey, if the guy is lights out in camp, he deserves to be on the team. But if he’s still inconsistent, I’d rather not pay 1-2 mil. and not be handcuffed.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and this terrific deal for the brewers allows just that, there is no guaranteed money, he only gets paid if he makes the team.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be the one to decide if my outrage is genuine, thanks.
Coffey has posted an ERA+ over 100 two of the last three seasons. Even his bad season (2007) wasn’t as bad as Gagne was last year.
I don’t expect Julio or Morlan to make the team. That leaves one spot. I’m confident, with the group of Stetter or Swindle (whichever isn’t the LOOGY), Difelice, Dillard, or even a guy like Joe Bateman or Chase Wright, the Brewers could find one more league average reliever that would cost less than $1.5-3 million and still be around next season.
Instead they’re wasting innings (and possibly money) on a guy who hasn’t been effective in years.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be the one to decide if my outrage is genuine, thanks.
is that a bill o’reilly quote?
=-=-=-=
it doesn’t make any sense to me that you can say that you are so certain that a 32 year old junkballing righty is a league average reliever that you aren’t going to bring in a veteran on a zero risk contract as insurance to compete for the last spot in the bullpen.
clearly you suffered some emotional damage from watching gagne pitch as a brewer that has affected your ability to see this deal clearly and rationally. cause it is a flat-out slam dunk steal for the brewers.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't compare me to Bill O'Reilly.
it doesn’t make any sense to me that you can say that you are so certain that a 32 year old junkballing righty is a league average reliever that you aren’t going to bring in a veteran on a zero risk contract as insurance to compete for the last spot in the bullpen.
I didn’t say that. I said the combination of Stetter/Swindle, Difelice, Dillard, Bateman and Wright are good enough that one of them, out of five options, should be able to fill the last spot in the bullpen. Even if I’m wrong, Julio and Morlan are competing for that spot too.
So, to re-phrase: Out of seven options, certainly the Brewers could find one league average reliever without having to resort to bringing Eric Gagne back. Am I wrong?
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
gagne is a better pitcher than todd coffey, but for the sake of argument let’s give coffey the 11th spot. lets also put stetter on the team.
Out of seven options, certainly the Brewers could find one league average reliever without having to resort to bringing Eric Gagne back. Am I wrong?
yes. you are wrong. when the cost is the same, 8 options is better than 7 options. and you are wrong if you think that there is zero chance gagne emerges as the best pitcher of those 8 options. you’d also likely be wrong if you said there is zero chance of both gagne emerging as the second best pitcher of those 8 options and that no one gets hurt in spring training.
but that’s just my earlier point reiterated. its not clear enough who of all these pitchers is the best, bringing in an extra arm at no cost is brilliant.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me give this a shot
Sorry if I’m putting words in your mouth, KL.
We’re concerned about him making the team. If he makes the team, suddenly that no risk contract becomes a 1.5+ MM contract. And if we don’t feel like he should make the team, or if we feel that the money could be used better elsewhere, then why bother giving him the contract in the first place.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
then why bother giving him the contract in the first place.
because it may turn out that he can pitch better than the other options.
if you don’t trust the front office to choose the better players, then yeah, there’s some concern to be had, but it shouldn’t be specific to this contract, right?
but if you do trust the front office to choose the best players for the team, then clearly having the option to upgrade from the replacement level pool of difelice/coffey/julio/morlan i worth something, right? well the brewers essentially got that something for nothing.
if, at the end of spring training, the brewers dont think he’d be worth 1.5-3.5 million dollars for his pitching ability they can cut him and owe him nothing, or they can ask him to join the minor league team and be available as insurance against injury.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm happy enough to see him back.
Performance wise, ??? but he seems like a relatively classy guy.
Also: God, politics and rock and roll??? Your blog list is truly immense.
by Braun Holio on Feb 18, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dabble in Iowa political blogs.
But when I saw that note yesterday, something just screamed “Mug!”
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DiFelice's problems
He’s not in camp this year. Out of sight, out of mind, and yet not out of options.
by morineko on Feb 18, 2009 9:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure he is in camp.
At the very least, he’s on the 40-man roster and I haven’t heard anyone say he’s not in camp.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was already with his WBC team, but I’ve been known to be wrong.
by morineko on Feb 18, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's possible, but I haven't seen it.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent sleuthing!
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm.
Who took over #43 for Manny Parra?
More importantly, can he be added to the list of baseball-playing, superstitious baseball-playing baseball players who are superstitious?
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 18, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
new #43
According to the official site roster, it’s R.J. Swindle.
by morineko on Feb 18, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I could have probably looked this up.
Thank you for saving me the trouble.
(Says the guy who looked up a ridiculous amount of stuff and wrote 1,500 words about Alcides Escobar’s BABIP yesterday and can’t write a 1,000 word essay tonight)
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 18, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could've used the left sidebar here ;)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Feb 18, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I used the time I could've spent looking to the left bar pasting the Escobar post into Word to use wordcount
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 18, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
well, it hadn’t been updated for a while…
I know the feeling on the hw problem; wrote too many papers the morning they were due while eating breakfast at the coffee shop when I was in college. in the meantime, I was writing long blog entries during my work breaks.
by morineko on Feb 18, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
March 25 is my birthday
I wonder what kind of present the Brewers will have in store for me.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 9:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
May 25 is mine.
Two years ago, the Brewers ended the Counsellino platoon and debuted Ryan Braun for my birthday.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
May 15th!
When they announced Brauns contract. Guess it made 31 easier.
by SgtClueLs on Feb 18, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
June 8th
err, Satchell Paige died.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Feb 18, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
January 24th
Me and Neil Diamond, rocking out.
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
April 15th
Tax day, Lincoln died, Titanic sunk…. at least it is Moose Hass’ birthday too…
by Braunstalker on Feb 18, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
April 26th
The day after I got to hang out in the press box and had Ueck cut us off in the food line :)
"If loving CC is wrong I do not want to be right"
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender"
by kirbir on Feb 18, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my brother's birthday
Just an FYI. And, if you’re anything like him, it means you’re ridiculously stubborn and totally socially awkward.
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
weird
It’s my brother’s birthday too.
I won’t badmouth him though.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
March 16th
The same as Estrada (Erik, not Johnny) and Madison (James, not the city of). I’m totally reaching for any kind of Brewer or Wisconsin connection.
I miss the slide, the balloons, and the giant beer mug. :(
by Adam P on Feb 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
September 1
Get to enjoy the call ups every year! (it is on 9/1, correct?)
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Feb 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
I wouldn’t call it badmouthing him. He would agree with my above post. :)
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I figured
Hence the :)
:)
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bloody hell
Addie Joss, the best baseball player from the Sconi died on my birthday too.
by Braunstalker on Feb 19, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt they'll end up putting Gagne on the team.
Maybe he’ll make the 40 man, but I’d be very surprised to see himon the 25 man roster barring injury. If he’s getting regular playing time, he’ll most likely get his $2MM in incentives. Although I’m one of the few who really didn’t mind Gagne, I feel like paying him $3.5MM would handcuff us from making some sort of potential move
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 10:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Per McCalvy
Gagne joins a crowded bullpen. Trevor Hoffman is the closer and Carlos Villanueva, David Riske and Seth McClung and at least one left-hander from Mitch Stetter or R.J. Swindle are ticketed for what will probably be a seven-man relief corps. Assuming only one lefty makes the cut, it would leave only two more spots for a field of competitors led by 40-man roster members Todd Coffey, Jorge Julio, Mark DiFelice and Rule 5 pick Eduardo Morlan.
2 spots for:
Coffey
Julio
DiFelice
Morlan
Gagne
I suppose it will work itself out in spring training. To me, he doesn’t look like a longshot.
by grant76 on Feb 18, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to point out
I almost bought that guitar package for $90 at woot.
But I just couldn’t do it.
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 11:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Auditioning for another job?
While the Brewers are certainly going to evaluate Gagne (and his potential salary), I don’t think they really mind giving him an audition to catch on to a new team somewhere.
Politics still plays a role in the front office, right? I mean, it can’t hurt relations with Scott Boras (and other agents) to give his guy a chance. Boras played a role in some friendly politics by surprising most parties with a reasonable arbitration offer for Fielder and accepting a fair contract proposal.
The Brewers know what they’ll get out of DeFelice and Coffey and the WBC adds a little time to Spring Training so they have some flexibility in their bullpen innings.
by ecocd on Feb 18, 2009 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right.
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 18, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Boras
one thing we’re not talking about here is that Scotty got his client a pretty darn good deal.
A $1.5MM base if he makes the team is solid in this market. Some of the incentives are based only on appearances, starting at 25, so if he simply stays healthy and on the team as the #7 reliever for the entire season, he could be up around $2.5MM or $3MM.
I would hope that those numbers raise the bar on Gagne’s performance in spring training.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
In order for him to make the team, he has to outperform the other pitchers. On top of that, he has to be evaluated based on that contract. That’s why I was saying above that if he makes the team, his no risk contract becomes a pretty high risk contract.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep
I didn’t see that comment … I was steering clear of the brewing (heh) storm.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well then i’ll bring it to you.
a minor league contract for an above replacement-level free agent pitcher is a pretty weak performance for scott boras. yeah the market is depressed, but gagne is likely an upgrade over every single team’s last guy in the bullpen.
now the incentives based on appearances make the contract look much better, but only if the brewers choose to pay it. at the end of spring training they take a 1.5 million dollar gamble on gagne, and at any point he’s not providing the return in value they can cut him, and they’ve only lost what they deemed they wanted to spend.
gagne has no way here to make money he doesn’t deserve (except, i suppose, to pitch well enough in spring training to earn a roster spot, and poor enough to be worth less than 1.5 million dollars, which is a pretty small window.)
gagne should’ve been able to find at least 1 million guaranteed. there is no upside in this contract for him except pride.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a couple things
1. a minor league contract with an out clause is a lot different than a minor league contract without. Gagne either makes $1.5MM+ this season from the Brewers or he gets to go elsewhere, and by that time there will probably be more openings due to injury or sucking.
2. in theory, yes, the Brewers could decide after 20 appearances that Gagne is pitching only a hair above replacement and cut him. But if he’s on the opening day roster and he doesn’t have a first half like he did last year (let’s say he has a 4.75 ERA instead of a 6-whatever and has a few impressive outings) I don’t think it’s realistic that he’d get cut to avoid the incentives. That might be smart, but in the world run by Melvin and Macha, I don’t see it happening. (4.50, btw, is approximately replacement level for relievers)
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s realistic that he’d get cut to avoid the incentives.
why not? i do. the brewers will have other cheaper options available, if gagne is not outperforming what they feel they can get out of their replacement pool, why wouldn’t they cut gagne and go with the other pitcher?
i dont think melvin would have agreed to the incentive laden deal unless he was willing to cut bait.
it’s like 8, 5-game, mini-options, for $250,000 each.
after appearance 24, they run a projection for him and say, can we get 0.6 runs over replacement for his next 5 appearances? if the answer is no, we don’t think we can, or even, yes, but we have a better/cheaper/more reliable option available in house, then yes, absolutely the brewers will cut him.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you make a $1.5M investment if you’re not willing to pay an extra $0.25M or $0.5M.
If he plays well enough to make the team and appear in 20 games, Chances are that they won’t cut him to avoid incentives.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gagne ist nicht gut
It’s fun that a guy who hasn’t pitched well in several years can still incite such fevered discussion. I suppose it’s the $10 million he stole from the Brewers last year.
by Marty McSuperFly on Feb 18, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been debating this in my head
What did more to ruin Gagne’s fan support?
the $10 million contract?
or
the Mitchell Report coming out 1 day after signing?
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was the 7.33 ERA at the all-star break.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
There was more too it though. Fans seemed to have a genuine, personal hatred towards the man. It was more than just thinking he sucked.
by tcyoung on Feb 18, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, ok
It takes multiple things to generate intense hatred. Everything else would be fine if he didn’t suck so bad. And I mean really bad — there’s little actual hatred for Suppan despite the fact he isn’t very good and he’s making eight figures.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That bastard.
Eric Gagne DL time: May 23-June 29 Brewers record in that span: 20-9
by NoahJ on Feb 18, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh come on Marty
At least we have a shot at him buying 5000 tickets and giving them away again.
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose we agree to disagree
But it is awfully rare for a team to cut a veteran reliever with a sub-5.00 ERA. It happens, sure, but I find it hard to believe that on June 15th, the Brewers with cut a 4.75 ERA Gagne in favor of, say, Tim Dillard.
Of course they should, but that’s a wholly different discussion.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you dont find too many veteran relievers on incentive-laden minor league deals.
i agree with you, that if gagne pitches good enough to win a roster spot, and bad enough to provide no value boras will look like he grabbed a great contract for a washed up reliever.
it’s just far more likely that gagne is above average or does not make the team.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
guillermo mota got 1 year 2.35 million
kerry wood got 2 years 20.5 million
david weathers got 1 year 3.9 million
tom gordon got 1 year, 0.5 million
jorge julio got 1 year 0.95 million
glendon rusch, chad fox, eric gagne and eddie guardado got minor league deals.
i changed my mind… there is no way to spin this into boras “got his client a pretty good deal”
nope, i suspect this one is all gagne turning down major league contracts for a shot at redemption.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he’s the highest ranked free agent to accept a minor league deal and the only ranked relief pitcher to take a minor league deal.
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 18, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he was also, at least arguably
the worst performing of those pitchers last year. Or even over the last year and half.
You can say that’s cherry-picking and you wouldn’t entirely be wrong, but every one of those MLB deal guys had better ‘08s. Teams aren’t deciding on salaries based on who got the most saves before the 2007 all-star break … and those saves are why Gagne is ranked at all, let alone ranked where he is.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 18, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
arguably indeed.
pitcher, ’09 chone fip, ’09 bill james fip
kerry wood 3.5, 3.8
david weathers 4.7, 4.4
guillermo mota 4.7, 4.3
jorge julio 4.1, 4.7
tom gordon 4.8, 3.8
gagne 4.1, 3.3
sorted by guaranteed dollars
Bring Back The Old Logo!
by jacob on Feb 19, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um...
I didn’t say 09 chone. I said 08 performance.
I’m not arguing that Gagne is or is not better.
I’m arguing that teams make decisions based on recent history. Gagne’s recent history sucks.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 19, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I'm not the only one
that noticed Gagne will be paid quite well for a back-of-the-bullpen guy on this contract. Not $10MM well, but well, nonetheless.
If he makes the team, that means we effectively signed him last year to a 2-year $12.5MM contract. That would’ve been considered a pretty fair deal at the time, right?
by ecocd on Feb 18, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oof
Trenni looks awful right now on MLB Network. Very boxy. What a terrible dress.
Vegas is in a class unto-itself, it's really not a "city", more a wonderland of awesomeness.
-Zeke
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Feb 18, 2009 8:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it doesn't do anything to conceal her freakishly huge cuspids.
Also, arms.
by Charlie Marlow on Feb 18, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you guys should start a fashion blog.
:-)
He’s not the worst pitcher ever, just the worst good pitcher.
by KLSnow on Feb 19, 2009 6:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 11.9.2009 at 4:20 PM CST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
