Quantifying the Offensive Rebound
Five position players played for the Brewers full time through most of 2007, 2008, and will play full time in 2009 if healthy. Prince Fielder, Rickie Weeks, J.J. Hardy, Ryan Braun, and Corey Hart hit exceptionally well in 2007 and as a group dropped off in 2008, though other improvements in defense and the starting rotation more than made up for their regression overall, and the team improved by 7 wins.
We as Brewer fans often cite an offensive "rebound" that could help overcome the loss of Ben Sheets and CC Sabathia going into the season. The means are available to quantify the dropoff and predict the improvement we can expect in the offense if they reach our community projections, so here it is. In the process, we can see how realistic our projections look in comparison with the previous two years-- a good projection would probably put our estimate somewhere in between the two.
Jack Moore referenced this concept in his recent post at Right Field Bleachers about replacing the nine wins from the two departed pitchers, which got me thinking about the subject. He concluded that contributions from Looper and Gallardo and an improvement from the bullpen will come close to replacing those nine wins, and then said this:
This is before we consider that many of the Brewers hitters suffered down years and are likely due for regression this year.
To begin the process of evaluating the hitters, we will take a look at the wOBAs posted by the five core players in 2007 and 2008 compared to our projected wOBAs in 2009. The past wOBAs are from Fangraphs, so they include baserunning.
Because we did not project all of the numbers necessary for wOBA in our Community Projections, I am using a modified formula to estimate wOBA from OBP and Slugging Percentage: ((OBP*1.75)+SLG)/3; the numbers match up closely with actual wOBA. To account for baserunning, I added a conservative .005 to Hart and Weeks and deducted .005 from Fielder and Hardy, and kept Braun neutral.
Here is a graphical representation of the past wOBAs, followed by the projected wOBA. Click the image to open a larger version, this one is very difficult to read. The black line is the league average wOBA; the bars are Blue: 2007, Red: 2008, and Light Tan: 2009 BCB Projection. Remember that these numbers are not adjusted for playing time, wOBA is a rate stat. We will adjust for playing time later.
The trend is the same for each of these players except Hardy. 2007 is the longest bar, 2008 is the shortest, and our projection sees improvement but not a return to 2007 levels. That is what we would have expected, and it looks like our projections fit in nicely with what a good projection should do. Hardy is the exception, he improved from 2007 to 2008 and we project that he will not quite match that production.
wOBA is only part of the process of run production, though-- to find how many runs each of these core players produced context-neutrally compared to average, we have to add in how many plate appearances each of these guys received. Then we can determine, in runs or wins, the impact of the dropoff and the potential rebound.
Here is the graph that accounts for playing time in plate appearances for offensive projection. The number on the y-axis is how many runs the player produced (or is projected to produce) compared to an average player given the same number of at-bats. Again, the image is linked to a larger version in a new window. The plate appearance projections are based on our playing time projections. Hardy, Fielder, and Hardy have the same amount of PAs as last year, and Braun and Weeks both got bonuses of 40 at-bats to account for injuries that kept down their totals last year.
You will notice that the trend stays the same. One note is that Braun only had 492 PAs in 2007, so his wRAA is lower.
So by now you are probably noticing that our projections forecast a nice rebound for the core hitters, and it is time to put some numbers on the impact our projected rebound could have. These are rounded intentionally, because the error range is probably around 5 runs due to my calculating of this manually.
The Five Core Players, Total Production of Runs Above Average
2007: 120, 12 wins
2008: 60, 6 wins
2009: 110, 11 wins
It looks like our projections, though lower in wOBA than 2007, are offset by Hardy's improvement since then and the increased plate appearances for Braun, Hart, and Weeks. Our community projections think that the five core players will gain five wins in value over last year.
The important thing to take out of this is to not take this as a projection for the improvement of the entire offense. There are a lot of factors involved. Last year's team was able to win 90 games because other players hit well, especially the bench and Gabe Kapler, and was aided by some clutch performance that helped last year. This is just the five core players and their performance, not the entire offense.
These are your projections for how the offense will do, not mine or a system's. The numbers above are just me applying the numbers we received to a system to determine the overall improvement, which looks to be about five wins.
I do not think the offense overall will be 5 wins better than last year because of these factors, but I think these five core players will gain about 5 wins in value, even if the rest of the offense falls off some, the offense should almost certainly improve. This expected improvement further solidifies our view that this team will compete, and that the combination of Looper and Gallardo plus the improved bullpen can replace the 9 wins lost to free agency. It will just be a transition-- last year, the Brewers pitched their way into the playoffs. This year, they will try to mash their way in.
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Comments
Not to sound like a total fanboy...
… but that’s freaking brilliant.
Thanks for the work.
I worry, though, that it’s just as likely that one or more of these guys actually regressed to the mean in 2008. Is it possible, given the lack of a 3-7 year base of statistical production to draw from, that 2008 is what they’re capable of and that 2007 was the outlier? And thus that they (meaning Hart, Braun, Fielder and Weeks) can’t be expected to recapture a portion of the productivity from 2007?
Or am I just paranoid?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 25, 2009 6:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
The nice thing is that all of our wOBA projections are lower than the 2007 wOBA for the four, except Hardy— they just get an increase in PAs, plus improvement from Hardy, to almost balance it out.
In short, it’s a concern, yes. I wanted to use the BCB projections because that’s what we think they will hit, and I’m showing that if they hit what we think they will we’ll be in good shape this year.
I would like to see what these five project for with CHONE and ZiPS wOBA. Maybe I’ll work on that soon. I’d imagine it’d be pretty similar.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's possible...
but projections (and bcb community is more or less in line with CHONE) knows about minor league performance, too, so it’s more than just one year.
plus, all these guys are young, and they’d be expected to improve some (if not this much) as they move toward their peak at age ~27-28.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 25, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right of course.
I forgot about the conversion of the minor league stats to MLB production levels. While I can’t accept them as being as accurate as actual MLB numbers, that does make me feel a little less nervous about the projections.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 25, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Averages, because I was curious
Straight average (no pt) of the five wOBAs—
07: .384
08: .353
BCB 09: .374
The exact midpoint of 07 and 08 is .369. We’re .005 ahead of a projection that would just take the average of the past two years, when they’re all entering their prime and should be expected to improve. I’m pretty confident that we’re not going too high here. I do agree with the points you’re making, though.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are legitimate concerns with all of them I guess...
Fielder’s HR/FB% dropped fairly precipitously. And 2007 looks like a true outlier there.
Same with Braun. Though otherwise Braun in 2008 was trending the right way.
I don’t see 2008 as an outlier for Hardy. Nothing really suggests that.
Rickie Weeks performance is very difficult to project. I’m a believer that this year he breaks out.
Hart is the big red flag. There is a real chance that he fails to rebound.
by Braun Holio on Feb 25, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not go all 8 starters?
If the community projections measure up with CHONE, then it looks to me like Kendall will stay about even with the level from last year, which was a .020 jump up from 2007. Cameron will drop about .014, which follows a .024 jump between 2007 and 2008. Hall will jump about .030 after falling about .020.
Sure, they’re the weak sisters of the offense, but it would have been nice to see the entire starting offense figured in, especially since overall, there’s still a little more offense to be gained (if CHONE is right).
by Marty McSuperFly on Feb 25, 2009 6:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The master plan
The reason we did the projections in the first place was to set up a WAR spreadsheet to get a true-talent estimate of every team in baseball. So, before the regular season starts, there will be a big post on the entire offense with our fine-tuned projections for the entire team and backups, with playing time, and a WAR value for the entire offense. Same thing for the pitchers, and we can wrap it up for the entire team.
Though we have all the players projected already, we still have to figure out how to allocate plate appearances based on lineup— 90% of the PAs for 2B will be different than catcher. It looks like we have the lineup pretty much set now, and the actual backups and bullpen guys picked probably won’t have much of an impact on the total win value.
So why didn’t I do all 8 and backups here? First, I wanted to show the projections and production for all three years v Kendall and Cam, who were pretty in line with what we expected. This post was more about the dropoff and rebound vs the entire offense. I’m sure you noticed I excluded Hall, mostly because he didn’t seem to fit in with the others (he might get platooned, and he didn’t have the big year in 07).
The other reason is simpler— I didn’t actually average out all of the backup projections yet, though I do have Cam, Kendall, and Hall obviously. That kept me from getting the total offense post out right now. (I did do bullpen and rotation posts a while ago).
So in summary, expect a large post about the total offense compared to last year sometime in mid-late March, and then the BCB win projection from the WAR spreadsheet. You’re totally right that more can be gained, and that will be interesting to look at.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the news today
I’m sure you noticed I excluded Hall, mostly because he didn’t seem to fit in with the others (he might get platooned, and he didn’t have the big year in 07).
Macha said Hall is going to be given a chance to show he’s an every day guy, so I’m optimistic that he will not be platooned. Of course, you would expect that from me.
by Marty McSuperFly on Feb 25, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer Hall play every day to a Lamb platoon
mostly because I believe in his defense. I don’t think you gain anything from a platoon, and there’s a possibility Bill E. remembers how to hit righties again and goes crazy. I wrote a lot about this in the Gamel break-even point post, it’s in the featured sidebar I think, if you’re interested.
I had him in at first. Then I realized that my rough thesis was: “Guys do good on offense in 2007, suck in 2008, they will improve in 2009 and we’ll find out how much”. Hardy doesn’t really fit either, but his big first half of 07 causes me to associate him with that group. Adding Hall wouldn’t relate to the point.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the losing nine from CC and Sheets, for all of you, are you considering it as nine from ninety, or nine from their Pythagorean, of 86-76?
by HRF on Feb 25, 2009 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
9 from the WAR-based record
Which if I remember correctly is about 87?
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Feb 25, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember either
This makes sense, though. WAR based record was inflated by about 3ish due to clutchness (mostly from the bullpen and Sabathia) and some clutch hitting. And it makes sense that if our consensus is that we’ve replaced those 9 wins, we’ve been projecting around 87 for next year.
If we win 87, I guarantee the mainstream media runs a ton of articles relating the impossible dream story of the Brewers coming back from the impossible challenge of losing two aces, though we’re projecting it in February.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait.
We still have Suppan, right?
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 25, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't hear about the accident?
It involved a bus. Most unfortunate, I’d say.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though
87 would be the top-end projection, assuming no catastrophic injuries to a major piece (doesn’t every team’s, though?). I think the WAR spreadsheet will spit out something in that region.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm still not clear.
We do still have Suppan, right?
(okay, I’ll stop now.)
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 25, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be the top-end projection, not including luck and clutch.
There’s still always the chance that something ridiculous happens and we win 100, just as much as there’s the chance that something ridiculous happens and we only win 70
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Feb 25, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote something about that a while ago too
If your team is a true talent 82 win, you might as well follow the season anyway— flukes happen. DBacks 07, Twins 08, etc.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason
The “you might as well follow the season anyway” phrase makes me laugh.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on Feb 25, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I picture the casual fan
“BCB says we’re winning 82? Dammit, I’m following professional croquet this year.”
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the casual would be more likely to say...
… I don’t get all that math stuff. I think they’re full of crap and we’re going to the series! WOOOOOOOO! Cubs suck.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Feb 25, 2009 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and in part,
he would be right.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Feb 25, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw this link at Right Field Bleachers
http://shortwhiteguys.blogspot.com/2009/02/look-at-2009-milwaukee-brewers.html
The position players: (If they don’t produce to their potential, the Brewers have no shot)
…
The pitching: (The reason the Brewers won’t win more than 80 games this year)
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of them definitely would do what you said though
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now this I didn't plan
It has come to my attention that “offensive rebound” has two meanings
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 7:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No surprise there
I wouldn’t expect anyone in Milwaukee to recognize an offensive rebound.
by Marty McSuperFly on Feb 25, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m the last Bucks fan alive. When I first saw this thread, I was like… did BCB add a Bucks section?
by HRF on Feb 25, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you
still a Bucks fan. Except after all of the injuries they play worse D than Prince.
September 15: Not a bad little Monday
by molitorfan on Feb 26, 2009 6:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you explain how baserunning is included in wOBA?
by tcyoung on Feb 25, 2009 8:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wOBA is just the average runs produced by an event over the value of an out. A stolen base has an average added run value, and a caught stealing has an average negative run value (the average runs gained or lost by stealing or being caught). Those are simply added in along with homers, doubles, triples, singles, walks, ks, and outs.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 25, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These graphs and Sky's graphs on BtB are making me realize how much I need Office '07
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Feb 25, 2009 11:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Actually, that's Excel 03
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on Feb 26, 2009 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
looks like Hardy won't hit his stallone projection here
I just sit back and root for the taser
by Hyatt on Feb 26, 2009 7:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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