he would’ve been part of that deal. must have been a bigger piece or two.

actually…I dug through the archives at MLB trade rumors…just a reference to a possible deal that would’ve been Gagne for TGJr straight up. Obviously the Rangers ended up with a much better deal than that, so maybe that isn’t the whole story, but the fact it was even floated tells you how far Gwynn’s stock has fallen in a relatively short period of time. (Not that he was the next Beltran even then, but a fair number of people thought he’d be something.)

If you don’t have the desire to marshal a convincing argument, or if you believe something in spite of evidence to the contrary, Internet meanies are being nasty to you?

I am a huge fan of Bill Hall and Rickie Weeks. I steer clear of discussions of Hall’s value, because I know there’s no evidence I can find which supports my belief that he can be a great player. It is one of my concessions to fandom that I will follow Bill Hall as an article of faith. While I don’t appreciate cheap shots thrown at him, I understand the legitimate arguments people put forth against Bill Hall, and don’t attribute unkind intentions to them.

So, I see where you’re coming from. You like a player that hasn’t accomplished much, and there isn’t much evidence to support a belief that he will be successful in the future. It doesn’t mean that others who questions his value are abusive or mean. It doesn’t even mean they don’t like Gwynn. I like Tony Gwynn, and would have liked to see him do well during Cameron’s suspension last year. Unfortunately, he got injured and wasn’t able to play, which seems to be an ongoing theme for him. Until he logs some time with success at the major league league level, it doesn’t matter how much any likes him, there’s no reason to believe he can be and everyday player.

I agree with everything Marty responded with above. I have my personal favorites, too, but I try to be pretty neutral in player evaluation.

Tony Gwynn Jr. needs to be patient. I don’t expect any player to hit .300 in the bigs, but if he can learn to put up a .280/.340 line, yes he’d be a decent backup. If he’s going to be a .270/.320 guy, he’ll be a career minor leaguer. I want him to succeed, but I don’t think it’s logical to expect him to. I’d actually be interested in an argument defending the first option. His best Obp-ba split in the minors is about. .060, so would you expect him to hit .310/.370 as a leadoff man? And he’d have to be that or better to be a better leadoff hitter than Rickie is.