Brewer WAR Lords: Catcher

by KLSnow on Mar 6, 2009 6:15 PM CST in Statistical Analysis Comment 28 comments

Thanks to Beyond the Box Score's idea, this is Part 1 in a six part series identifying the best position players in Brewer history, ranked by their Wins Above Replacement (WAR).

Today, we start with the catchers. All told, seventeen catchers were considered. For whatever it's worth, Chad Moeller finished 17th out of 17 in all three criteria. All WAR totals listed only include seasons spent primarily as a catcher while playing for the Brewers. Here are the top five:

1. Darrell Porter

Career WAR: 10.5 (1st)
Top Three Seasons: 10.3 (1st)
Top Five Seasons: 10.9 (1st)

Porter spent the first six seasons of his career in a Brewer uniform. He was the AL's youngest player when he made his debut in 1971 at age 19 and played his last game as a Brewer in 1976 at age 24, before playing 11 more seasons as a Royal, Cardinal and Ranger. Porter was an All Star in 1974, but his best season as a Brewer was 1975, when he hit .232/.371/.418 and was worth 3.8 wins above replacement.

2. B.J. Surhoff

Career WAR: 10.2 (2nd)
Top Three Seasons: 7.8 (3rd)
Top Five Seasons: 9.9 (2nd)

Surhoff debuted as a Brewer in 1987 and spent his first six seasons behind the plate before moving to third base. During those six seasons he posted a WAR over 2 three times. Surhoff caught 704 games as a Brewer. All told, he played in 2313 games over 19 big league seasons.

3. Ted Simmons

Career WAR: 7.7 (3rd)
Top Three Seasons: 8.1 (2nd)
Top Five Seasons: 7.7 (3rd) One could make an argument for Simmons' inclusion in the Baseball Hall of Fame. As a Brewer, he spent five seasons, including two excellent ones in 1982 and 1983, where he was worth a combined 7.1 wins. Simmons was an eight-time All Star, including twice as a Brewer. He started the All Star game in 1983.

4. Ellie Rodriguez

Career WAR: 6.8 (4th)
Top Three Seasons: 6.8 (4th)
Top Five Seasons: 6.8 (4th)

Rodriguez was the Brewers primary catcher from 1971-1973, and the fact that he ranks this high on the list should tell you something about how few truly great catchers the Brewers have had. Rodriguez's best season was 1972, when he posted a .285/.382/.352 line and was worth 3.4 wins. Rodriguez played nine big league seasons as a Yankee, Royal, Brewer, Angel and Dodger.

5. Charlie Moore

Career WAR: 6.6 (5th)
Top Three Seasons: 3.9 (6th)
Top Five Seasons: 5.5 (5th)

Fourteen of Moore's 15 big league seasons were spent with the Brewers, including 11 as a catcher. Moore never posted a season with a WAR over 2, but had five over 1 while catching 894 games.

Rounding out the top ten:

Pos.	Catcher	Career War	Rank	Top 3	Rank	Top 5	Rank
6.	Dave Nilsson	5.1	6	4.5	5	5.1	6
7.	Bill Schroeder	2.3	8	3.3	7	2.8	7
8.	Charlie O'Brien	2.5	7	2.6	8	2.5	8
9.	Jason Kendall	2	9	2	9	2	9
10.	Henry Blanco	1.4	10	1.4	10	1.4	10

Monday: First base/DH

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Comments

Cool idea

I saw the BtB post and was thinking of doing something along these lines, but this is better.

Fun part about having a team without a ton of history, and a lot of that bad, is that there will be some pretty mediocre players among the “best.” Interesting that Jason Kendall was such a great player for so long, and now he has essentially turned into Charlie Moore.

Also, cheese.

by Jeff Sackmann on Mar 6, 2009 6:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Fun part about having a team without a ton of history, and a lot of that bad, is that there will be some pretty mediocre players among the "best."

Wait until you see second base.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 6, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It took me until my junior year of high school

to see second base.

September 15: Not a bad little Monday

by molitorfan on Mar 6, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like the position-by-position idea.

Does 10.5 WAR really lead in all-time Brewers’ catcher WAR? Yikes.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 6, 2009 6:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's true.

Not to spoil anything, but Robin Yount once had a season (11.7 WAR) better than any Brewer catcher’s career.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 6, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha, Kendall in ninth just for one mediocre season.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 6, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ten is actually a tie

Damian Miller and Henry Blanco have the same career WAR.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 6, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Love the title

and the concept. Will be interesting to see how many of the top positions are held by Yount and Molitor.

by Oakland Brewer Fan on Mar 6, 2009 6:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

In case anyone was curious

Here are the next seven Brewer catchers, in order, with career WAR:

Damian Miller 1.4
Jesse Levis 1.1
Jerry McNertney .6
Buck Martinez .5
Raul Casanova .1
Mike Matheny -1.3
Chad Moeller -3.8

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 6, 2009 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe these results

How is Ned Yost not in the top ten?

BCB, the preferred above replacement level sarcasm supplier.

by MadJimiBrewha on Mar 6, 2009 9:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Great idea KL

Wow, what a pathetic group. Darrell Porter is the best catcher we’ve ever had? Really?

Hopefully in a few years either Salome or Lucroy will be ranked #1. They don’t have to set their sights very high.

by Brew Believer on Mar 7, 2009 7:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Where's Bill Schroeder?

I just noticed that everyone’s favorite announcer is missing (no, not Uecker). I was thinking that his offensive explosion in ’87 might be one of the highest ranked individual seasons. Though he played in just 75 games, he posted a .332/.379/.548 line.

by Brew Believer on Mar 7, 2009 7:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

maybe he's stuck at The Good Feet Store

or watching tape of an opposite field hit from last year

September 15: Not a bad little Monday

by molitorfan on Mar 7, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If by missing, you mean at number 7, then I totally agree with you.

by Mykenk on Mar 7, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i don’t think longevity=best.

how did you calculate your numbers?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 7, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The way this is being done

is value provided to the team. So a guy that has 1 big year of 6 wins above replacement is going to get ranked worse than a guy who had 10 average years at the same position.

If you were ranking “best Brewers SP” you’d probably put Sabathia as #1. But Sheets, in his career, provided far more value to the team than Sabathia did in half a year.

Sean Smith’s WAR is very similar to the Fangraphs WAR stat. wOBA runs above average+ defense above average + positional adjustment + replacement bonus.

The artist formerly known as jihad.

by Jordan M on Mar 7, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so no defensive stats for any of these catchers then, right?

also, if we’re not going to call this the best brewers catchers, what do you call it?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 8, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brewer position players ranked by wins above replacement?

Or, to shorten, WAR Lords?

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 8, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Sean has a defensive system for catchers, mostly comparing WP/PB rates, SB/CS, and error rates to league average.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 8, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, i see that, thanks. (I was looking at totalzone).

on sean’s player pages it’s the “catch” column for catchers.

he’s not detailed that system anywhere has he?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 8, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's discussed it, yes. Try emailing him and reporting back.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 10, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be more specific:

I used Sean Smith’s Historical WAR database, as Beyond the Box Score suggested.

Final rankings were made by collecting a player’s rank in career WAR, Top three seasons and top five, then averaging the three rankings. For the most part, though, career WAR by itself would have been enough, as the #1 player at every position is also the leader in career WAR, and for the most part the top tens follow suit.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 8, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

porter’s “career WAR” is sean’s historical war database.

why are you combining career WAR with top3, top5 WAR?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 8, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To get a feel for short term contribution along with career contribution.

There are guys who didn’t play 14 years in a Brewer uniform but were significantly better in a 5 year stretch than a career Brewer was in 10. Using Top 3, Top 5 and Career levels the playing field a bit, and gives an opportunity to take both long-term consistency and short term explosiveness into account.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Mar 8, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so this is my question. what are you trying to show?

1 the players who contributed the most value, or
2 the best players?

career WAR is a counting stat that helps identify the first.
WAR/best 3,5 years is a rate stat which helps identify the second.

if this is Brewer position players ranked by wins above replacement? it might be best without mixing in the rate stat. i’d recommend creating two lists, total WAR and WAR rate, or just one list total WAR and show rates along side.

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 8, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's going for a combination of the two:

Best player as a Brewer, ignoring all other information. Kind of like a Brewers’ Hall of Fame. You need to be able to compare Koufax with someone who held on for a lot longer but without such a great peak.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 8, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok. a brewer hall of fame, that could make sense. and averaging “career” WAR with “peak” WAR rate is suppose to work like jay jaffe’s jaws. (which is not a terribly useful system if you ask me)

as the original poster alluded to in a comment above, you’ll not likely find a scenario where ‘peak’ performances break any ties on career WAR for such a small sample (17 catchers). it’s an interesting discussion, like the mvp, and hall of fame discussions. but the real question is what defines ‘best’… after that it’s elementary.

besides, using ‘peak’ seasons from a subset of a career seems to defeat the purpose of using ‘peak’ season, yeah?

Bring Back The Old Logo!

by jacob on Mar 8, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm also not a fan of the JAWS methodology.

But that’s basically what’s going on here.

I actually prefer to judge each season on its own “impressiveness”, and somehow weight a 6 WAR season way more than three 2 WAR seasons. Something exponential, perhaps.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Mar 10, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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