Brew Crew Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Pitching to Context: How bad is Jeff Suppan?

Jeff Suppan: Bad pitcher or the worst pitcher?

More photos » by Jim Prisching - AP

Jeff Suppan: Bad pitcher or the worst pitcher?

You might have heard that Jeff "Ace" Suppan is not pitching well. If you haven't, go back and read today's Frosty Mug, where I linked to seven articles and posts discussing it.

All of this has created an interesting debate: Can two terrible starts, combined with a poor performance down the stretch in 2008, be enough to boot a veteran pitcher from the rotation? That remains to be seen, but there is another question we can answer: Where does Jeff Suppan rank among the worst starting pitchers in Brewer history?

A quick disclaimer: For each leaderboard, I only used pitchers with at least 300 IP (approximately two full seasons as a starter) in a Brewer uniform. As such, Matt Kinney, Ruben Quevedo, Victor Santos, and Rafael Roque, among others, were not eligible for consideration. That doesn't mean they weren't terrible, because they all were, they just weren't terrible as a Brewer for long enough to get into this conversation.

Any conversation about bad pitching should probably start with ERA. Among Brewers who pitched at least 300 innings, Jeff Suppan has the fourth worst ERA:

Pitcher Seasons IP ERA
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 5.34
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 5.10
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 331 5.00
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 392 4.94
Steve Woodard 1997-2000 481

4.73

That's not an entirely fair comparison, though, because it's not league-adjusted. When you use ERA+ instead, Suppan drops to eighth place:

Pitcher Seasons IP ERA+
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 331 74
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 78
Bill Champion 1973-1976 432.1 84
Bill Parsons 1971-1973 518.1 85
Don August 1988-1991 440 85
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 312.2 85
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 87
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 392 89

And what about allowing baserunners? Last night (6 walks in 3.2 IP) was an extreme example, but Suppan is always pitching with men on. Again, among pitchers with at least 300 innings as a Brewer, Suppan is the sixth worst in WHIP:

Pitcher Seasons IP WHIP
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 312.2 1.586
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 1.581
Jaime Cocanower 1983-1986 365.2 1.564
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 1.554
Angel Miranda 1993-1997 363.1 1.544
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 393 1.531

But, in light of Suppan's last two starts, here's the last one I wanted to check: Among Brewer starting pitchers who pitched at least 300 innings, here are the bottom five in Quality Start percentage:

Pitcher Seasons W L QS%
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 19 29 .380
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 22 24 .433
Steve Woodard 1997-2000 25 30 .438
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 15 23 .442
Don August 1988-1991 34 30 .457

So where does that leave Suppan? It's not fair to call him the worst SP in Brewer history: certainly Gene Brabender (the ace of the expansion Pilots, out of the majors after the 1970 season) was worse, and so were Glendon Rusch and Jimmy Haynes. But I think you can make a case for Suppan's inclusion in the bottom five, and that's an awfully heavy chain to allow to drag behind a contending team.

0 recs  |  Comment 23 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Brew Crew Ball

Monday's Frosty Mug

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 55 comments

Friday's Frosty Mug

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 43 comments

Tuesday's Frosty Mug

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 34 comments

Thursday's Frosty Mug

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 148 comments

Comments

Display:

In terms of stats, Suppan isn't THE worst pitcher in Brewers history

However, if you include financial considerations/contracts, that makes Suppan the worst starting pitcher in Brewers history, at least in my opinion. Especially if he’s already bottom five when not considering contracts.

:) + Suppan = :'(

by NoahJ on Apr 13, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Whether he's the worst or just one of the worst

It doesn’t really change the fact that Melvin looks like a giant tool for saying Suppan is performing as expected.

by Marty McSuperFly on Apr 13, 2009 3:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Amen!

He’s at least distracting attention away from another poor FA Pitcher signing in Riske.

by SgtClueLs on Apr 13, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This just makes me feel so much better about the rest of the year.

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If we released him...

Would he clear waivers? Would any team want to take on his $12.5 M salary? I don’t know the repercussions of releasing a player, but I would venture to say we’d be better off in the long and short term without him.

Then again, who are we going to replace him with? Villanueva? McClung? Maybe we can make a move when Hoffman gets healthy.

by spell on Apr 13, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nobody would pick him up.

However, we’d still be paying him his salary.

As was discussed earlier, If we sent him to the minors, he could ask to be released, in which case, another team could pick him up at the league minimum, leaving us to pay the rest.

by tcyoung on Apr 13, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I addressed this on the front page.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Apr 13, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There can be no discussion of worst Brewers pitchers without ...

Ruben Quevedo. I understand the 300 IP criteria and all that jazz, but I think those criteria should be waived for Ruben. He’s in a class all of his own. And don’t forget: he was the centerpiece of the Dave “Stormy” Weathers trade. That should count for something.

by Rubie Q on Apr 13, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

who was then flipped for Richie Sexson

who was then flipped for Chad Moeller, Junior spivey, et. al.

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was the other tubby Brewer reliever:

Bob Wickman was traded for DickSex, not Stormy. Ruben, sadly, couldn’t be scrapped for anything by the time he was done in Milwaukee.

by Rubie Q on Apr 13, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The issue...

… with Suppan is that he doesn’t pitch well until

A) July-August-September
B) Postseason

… and there’s been decline in all of those numbers as he gets older. Thus, his window of effectiveness is closing, and for a guy who has been teetering at average/slightly above average his entire career, it’s going from medicore to worse. Even his frequently talked about virtue, taking the ball every fifth day, has taken a hit.

Teams need to overpay for mediocre starters, so the Suppan deal wasn’t that surprising, but we may have crossed an event horizon regarding if he should be a starter any longer. He’s a control pitcher who has little control.

He’s being paid too much to be cut (his contract goes through 2010; about $25mm is still owed to guy), and since pitching is at a premium anyway, he’ll be with the team all season because his numbers will improve (modestly). The best case scenario is for Suppan to show his purported veterany wisdom and tell Macha “I’m throwing garbage, let me work out my stuff in mop up/long relief while McClung gets a shot.” I haven’t seen that kind of humility out of Suppan yet, but I hope I do.

My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper

by nmc on Apr 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Best case scenario

Actually, it would be better for Suppan to go to Macha and request that Rivera be his regular catcher, because Rivera calls a better game than Kendall.

by Marty McSuperFly on Apr 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You were so close to having that right:

Actually, it would be better for Suppan Ace to go to Macha and request that Rivera be his regular catcher, because Rivera calls a better game than Kendall.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by KLSnow on Apr 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could call a better game than Kendall

but it wouldn’t matter if the pitcher couldn’t throw what I called. “130 mph fastball at the knees” That’s certainly better than Kendall called, but I don’t think it would be very useful.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take it

Maybe the team can “give up” on days Suppan pitches, give all the regulars a day off, and have a 100% real major league team the other four games.

Or Suppan discovers he’s a natural lefty.

My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper

by nmc on Apr 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not only are his numbers declining

His stuff, velocity, break, control, and stamina are too. More on this later.

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Apr 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Macha needs to grow a pair

Macha should have given Suppan the “heave-ho” after he walked in the first run last night. I realize that (right now) we don’t have a middle-reliever that can come in and throw strikes or get anyone out. (Who selected these guys to make the roster anyway? – another story). However, Brewer fans deserve much more than a re-treaded Ned Yost who feigns confidence in his players and sticks with them in situations that cry out change. Winning is everything. You are their manager – not their friend!

by cptneemo on Apr 13, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Of all the talk of Macha "learning" in the beginning of the year...

I think a valuable lesson happened last night. A weird side of me was sorta happy it happened on national TV, so that everyone could see just how bad the Suppan Problem is. (And a hint of the Kendall Problem, as well.)

by andrew_p on Apr 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just like last year, though.

Suppan knows he sucked and he doesn’t need his Manager and GM to tell everyone else that. It was infuriating for the fans to hear Ned defend every player until he was blue in the face, but how many guys will play for a manager that calls them out after every pair of bad starts? Being a manager and a friend is not mutually exclusive.

Last night, it was as simple as (a) if Suppan gets one last out he can pitch another 1 or 2 innings and (b) Julio wasn’t ready in the bullpen. If there’s no one ready to go. Julio got up in the bullpen after the first walk and there wasn’t any especially good reason to have him up before it. Macha did all he reasonably could last night, given the team he has to manage. It’s not fair to blame him for it.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you suck, you should be "outta there"

ecocd said – “… how many guys will play for a manager that calls them out …”

That’s my point. It’s the type of paranoia that managers and coaches can succumb to – resulting in little or no control of their team.

If you are productive – the manager will play you. If not – you sit. Simple as that. Managers and coaches who worry that non-productive players may harbor a grudge as the result of lack of playing time, being pulled for a relief pitcher, asked to be more patient at the plate, being given the bunt sign, or asked to work on hitting the ball to the opposite field (to name a few) – will lose control of the team.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Players will respect your authority.

by cptneemo on Apr 13, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you get mentioned in the same breath as Glendon Rusch

Chances are that you either homered, or are not a very good pitcher.

Crimson and Cream Machine
Baseball season = Go Brew Crew!

by dishingoutdimes on Apr 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Brew Crew Ball is dedicated to providing a friendly atmosphere for intelligent Brewer conversation. Click here to view our Posting Guide and Community Guidelines.
Start posting about the Brewers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Braun_fielder_small
Vazquez/Bradley
Barrelman_small
Just for Fun: Comparing Gomez and Gutierrez
Box_small
Low OBP + Young Player = What Kind of Career?
Barrelman_small
Updated 2010 Brewers Roster/Salary Predictions
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
2009 Offseason Free Agency Dates
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Speculationville: Glen Perkins
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Somebody Get Me My Cardboard: Bob Wolfley Breaks It Down
Small
Brewers Minor League Leaders thru the 00's - Strikeouts
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
JJ Hardy's Trade Value
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Tangentially related Brewers news

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Featured Poll

Poll
Who won the J.J. Hardy/Carlos Gomez trade?

  156 votes | Results

79 - 82

11

Won 3

1

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
St. Louis 91 71 .561 0 Lost 6
Chicago 83 78 .515 7.5 Lost 1
Milwaukee 80 82 .493 11 Won 3
Cincinnati 78 84 .481 13 Won 2
Houston 74 88 .456 17 Lost 3
Pittsburgh 62 99 .385 28.5 Lost 2

(updated 11.9.2009 at 4:19 AM CST)

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Baseball, I wish I could quit you.
Reminder
The Pilots/Brewers First Home Game
You think you know the Brewers Farm System? You've got nothing on this guy.
Red Sox offered Bowden for Hardy?
Melvin: "We are going to consider [Lucroy] as a candidate
Hot Stove: Garland's option declined, will be a FA
Post on Minor League Ball asking for top 5 Brewers prospects
Alcides Escobar "abandoned his daughter before she was born"
Cain, Lucroy, Green in the lineup in the AFL tonight.

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Moderators

U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small roguejim

Mordecai_brown_small Jeff Sackmann

Newavatar_small KLSnow

Box_small TheJay

Communist_party_small Jordan M

Contributors

Dsci0355_small kirbir

Picture_069_small tristarscoop

Dsc01174_small BrewHaHeather

Rubie_edited-1_small Rubie Q

Hikaru_50_small morineko

X1pxoywqu4sjf73f7drxq2lmqys7mzsyx7pa9necepiffk_ewcuwmuazb-o17ukmbriclcdkn4lk-4xposaawiq4j8hzdsccpjwatqpz2o2p-i0nnqjlyt7pmytaycsaknszvaktpshtcu9sjle1qchlw_1__small NoahJ

Hulk_buddy-icon_small Fatter than Joey