Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

Pitching to Context: How bad is Jeff Suppan?

You might have heard that Jeff "Ace" Suppan is not pitching well. If you haven't, go back and read today's Frosty Mug, where I linked to seven articles and posts discussing it.

All of this has created an interesting debate: Can two terrible starts, combined with a poor performance down the stretch in 2008, be enough to boot a veteran pitcher from the rotation? That remains to be seen, but there is another question we can answer: Where does Jeff Suppan rank among the worst starting pitchers in Brewer history?

A quick disclaimer: For each leaderboard, I only used pitchers with at least 300 IP (approximately two full seasons as a starter) in a Brewer uniform. As such, Matt Kinney, Ruben Quevedo, Victor Santos, and Rafael Roque, among others, were not eligible for consideration. That doesn't mean they weren't terrible, because they all were, they just weren't terrible as a Brewer for long enough to get into this conversation.

Any conversation about bad pitching should probably start with ERA. Among Brewers who pitched at least 300 innings, Jeff Suppan has the fourth worst ERA:

Pitcher Seasons IP ERA
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 5.34
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 5.10
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 331 5.00
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 392 4.94
Steve Woodard 1997-2000 481

4.73

That's not an entirely fair comparison, though, because it's not league-adjusted. When you use ERA+ instead, Suppan drops to eighth place:

Pitcher Seasons IP ERA+
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 331 74
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 78
Bill Champion 1973-1976 432.1 84
Bill Parsons 1971-1973 518.1 85
Don August 1988-1991 440 85
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 312.2 85
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 87
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 392 89

And what about allowing baserunners? Last night (6 walks in 3.2 IP) was an extreme example, but Suppan is always pitching with men on. Again, among pitchers with at least 300 innings as a Brewer, Suppan is the sixth worst in WHIP:

Pitcher Seasons IP WHIP
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 312.2 1.586
Jimmy Haynes 2000-2001 372 1.581
Jaime Cocanower 1983-1986 365.2 1.564
Glendon Rusch 2002-2003 334 1.554
Angel Miranda 1993-1997 363.1 1.544
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 393 1.531

But, in light of Suppan's last two starts, here's the last one I wanted to check: Among Brewer starting pitchers who pitched at least 300 innings, here are the bottom five in Quality Start percentage:

Pitcher Seasons W L QS%
Gene Brabender 1969-1970 19 29 .380
Jeff Suppan 2007-2009 22 24 .433
Steve Woodard 1997-2000 25 30 .438
Pete Broberg 1975-1976 15 23 .442
Don August 1988-1991 34 30 .457

So where does that leave Suppan? It's not fair to call him the worst SP in Brewer history: certainly Gene Brabender (the ace of the expansion Pilots, out of the majors after the 1970 season) was worse, and so were Glendon Rusch and Jimmy Haynes. But I think you can make a case for Suppan's inclusion in the bottom five, and that's an awfully heavy chain to allow to drag behind a contending team.

Comment 23 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

In terms of stats, Suppan isn't THE worst pitcher in Brewers history

However, if you include financial considerations/contracts, that makes Suppan the worst starting pitcher in Brewers history, at least in my opinion. Especially if he’s already bottom five when not considering contracts.

:) + Suppan = :'(

by NoahJ on Apr 13, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Whether he's the worst or just one of the worst

It doesn’t really change the fact that Melvin looks like a giant tool for saying Suppan is performing as expected.

by Marty McSuperFly on Apr 13, 2009 3:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Amen!

He’s at least distracting attention away from another poor FA Pitcher signing in Riske.

by SgtClueLs on Apr 13, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

This just makes me feel so much better about the rest of the year.

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions  

If we released him...

Would he clear waivers? Would any team want to take on his $12.5 M salary? I don’t know the repercussions of releasing a player, but I would venture to say we’d be better off in the long and short term without him.

Then again, who are we going to replace him with? Villanueva? McClung? Maybe we can make a move when Hoffman gets healthy.

by spell on Apr 13, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Nobody would pick him up.

However, we’d still be paying him his salary.

As was discussed earlier, If we sent him to the minors, he could ask to be released, in which case, another team could pick him up at the league minimum, leaving us to pay the rest.

by tcyoung on Apr 13, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I addressed this on the front page.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by Kyle Lobner on Apr 13, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

There can be no discussion of worst Brewers pitchers without ...

Ruben Quevedo. I understand the 300 IP criteria and all that jazz, but I think those criteria should be waived for Ruben. He’s in a class all of his own. And don’t forget: he was the centerpiece of the Dave “Stormy” Weathers trade. That should count for something.

by Rubie Q on Apr 13, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

who was then flipped for Richie Sexson

who was then flipped for Chad Moeller, Junior spivey, et. al.

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was the other tubby Brewer reliever:

Bob Wickman was traded for DickSex, not Stormy. Ruben, sadly, couldn’t be scrapped for anything by the time he was done in Milwaukee.

by Rubie Q on Apr 13, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

my bad

I just sit back and root for the taser
I'm on Twitter now. www.twitter.com/Enrico_Palazzo_

by Hyatt on Apr 13, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

The issue...

… with Suppan is that he doesn’t pitch well until

A) July-August-September
B) Postseason

… and there’s been decline in all of those numbers as he gets older. Thus, his window of effectiveness is closing, and for a guy who has been teetering at average/slightly above average his entire career, it’s going from medicore to worse. Even his frequently talked about virtue, taking the ball every fifth day, has taken a hit.

Teams need to overpay for mediocre starters, so the Suppan deal wasn’t that surprising, but we may have crossed an event horizon regarding if he should be a starter any longer. He’s a control pitcher who has little control.

He’s being paid too much to be cut (his contract goes through 2010; about $25mm is still owed to guy), and since pitching is at a premium anyway, he’ll be with the team all season because his numbers will improve (modestly). The best case scenario is for Suppan to show his purported veterany wisdom and tell Macha “I’m throwing garbage, let me work out my stuff in mop up/long relief while McClung gets a shot.” I haven’t seen that kind of humility out of Suppan yet, but I hope I do.

My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper

by nmc on Apr 13, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Best case scenario

Actually, it would be better for Suppan to go to Macha and request that Rivera be his regular catcher, because Rivera calls a better game than Kendall.

by Marty McSuperFly on Apr 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

You were so close to having that right:

Actually, it would be better for Suppan Ace to go to Macha and request that Rivera be his regular catcher, because Rivera calls a better game than Kendall.

"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."

by Kyle Lobner on Apr 13, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could call a better game than Kendall

but it wouldn’t matter if the pitcher couldn’t throw what I called. “130 mph fastball at the knees” That’s certainly better than Kendall called, but I don’t think it would be very useful.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll take it

Maybe the team can “give up” on days Suppan pitches, give all the regulars a day off, and have a 100% real major league team the other four games.

Or Suppan discovers he’s a natural lefty.

My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper

by nmc on Apr 13, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not only are his numbers declining

His stuff, velocity, break, control, and stamina are too. More on this later.

Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.

by Jordan M on Apr 13, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Macha needs to grow a pair

Macha should have given Suppan the “heave-ho” after he walked in the first run last night. I realize that (right now) we don’t have a middle-reliever that can come in and throw strikes or get anyone out. (Who selected these guys to make the roster anyway? – another story). However, Brewer fans deserve much more than a re-treaded Ned Yost who feigns confidence in his players and sticks with them in situations that cry out change. Winning is everything. You are their manager – not their friend!

by cptneemo on Apr 13, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Of all the talk of Macha "learning" in the beginning of the year...

I think a valuable lesson happened last night. A weird side of me was sorta happy it happened on national TV, so that everyone could see just how bad the Suppan Problem is. (And a hint of the Kendall Problem, as well.)

by andrew_p on Apr 13, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just like last year, though.

Suppan knows he sucked and he doesn’t need his Manager and GM to tell everyone else that. It was infuriating for the fans to hear Ned defend every player until he was blue in the face, but how many guys will play for a manager that calls them out after every pair of bad starts? Being a manager and a friend is not mutually exclusive.

Last night, it was as simple as (a) if Suppan gets one last out he can pitch another 1 or 2 innings and (b) Julio wasn’t ready in the bullpen. If there’s no one ready to go. Julio got up in the bullpen after the first walk and there wasn’t any especially good reason to have him up before it. Macha did all he reasonably could last night, given the team he has to manage. It’s not fair to blame him for it.

by ecocd on Apr 13, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you suck, you should be "outta there"

ecocd said – “… how many guys will play for a manager that calls them out …”

That’s my point. It’s the type of paranoia that managers and coaches can succumb to – resulting in little or no control of their team.

If you are productive – the manager will play you. If not – you sit. Simple as that. Managers and coaches who worry that non-productive players may harbor a grudge as the result of lack of playing time, being pulled for a relief pitcher, asked to be more patient at the plate, being given the bunt sign, or asked to work on hitting the ball to the opposite field (to name a few) – will lose control of the team.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Players will respect your authority.

by cptneemo on Apr 13, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you get mentioned in the same breath as Glendon Rusch

Chances are that you either homered, or are not a very good pitcher.

Crimson and Cream Machine
Baseball season = Go Brew Crew!

by dishingoutdimes on Apr 13, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Brew Crew Ball is dedicated to providing a friendly atmosphere for intelligent Brewer conversation. Click here to view our Posting Guide and Community Guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Help- How to "Cut the Cable" and Watch Live Games
Barrelman_small
BCB Advanced Stat Pseudofantasy League - PART II
Small
Interview with a Former Brewer Part Two
Small
Catching Up With a Former Brewer
Barrelman_small
BCB Advanced Stat Pseudofantasy League
People_studying_small
Does Fielder's Contract Outdo Pujols'?
Dr-teeth_small
Fielder: It's all about health
Barrelman_small
NPB Position Players
Braun
2012 Payroll Early Estimate
Newavatar_small
Any tech-savvy readers available to help with a Mug production issue?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
Chicago 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Cincinnati 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Houston 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Milwaukee 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Pittsburgh 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
St. Louis 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0

(updated 2.12.2012 at 7:02 PM CST)


Moderators

Newavatar_small Kyle Lobner

146_-_street_map_plaza_from_pop_tower_with_bars-tiltshift_small TheJay

Communist_party_small Jordan M

X1pxoywqu4sjf73f7drxq2lmqys7mzsyx7pa9necepiffk_ewcuwmuazb-o17ukmbriclcdkn4lk-4xposaawiq4j8hzdsccpjwatqpz2o2p-i0nnqjlyt7pmytaycsaknszvaktpshtcu9sjle1qchlw_1__small NoahJ

Hikaru_50_small morineko

Picture_069_small Nicole Haase

Gogol_bordello_small BrewHaHeather

Anon-md_small Rubie Q