Liberal Base Running vs Conservative Base Runner Defense
Yesterday Rickie Weeks was caught stealing to notch the third out of the 7th inning. This is at least the third time this season I could think of off the top of my head that the Brewers had left Ryan Braun standing at home plate while recording the final out of the inning on the bases.
With the offensive prowess Braun, Fielder and Cameron have shown, especially in recent weeks, it made me wonder why Ken Macha is being so aggressive with base running while risking outs on the bases.
Yesterday's caught stealing happened in the same inning that Yovani Gallardo homered, giving the Brewers a 1-0 lead, meaning it was a chance for a rally that was killed with the meat of the order at the plate and on deck.
The whole thing is even more confusing when you think about how much time Brewers pitchers have spent checking on runners and holding them to their base. My thoughts on Seth McClung's overzealous runner checking were linked in the Mug last week.
Remember, too, that Ken Macha has taken over control of opponents' running game from Kendall/Rivera saying that he's got a better vantage point from the dugout. That means the obsessive throws to first and second have been at Macha's instruction.
It seems counter-intuitive for a manager to be so conservative in terms of defense on base runners but so seemingly reckless with offensive base runners.
So far this season, the Brewers have been caught stealing as many times as they've actually stolen a base - eight times each.
Corey was caught stealing just seven times in all of 2008, but has already been caught three times in 21 games in 2009 while successfully stealing just twice.
Last season, Rickie was caught five times. So far in 2009, he's been thrown out twice while stealing just one base.
Again with the small sample size, but don't those numbers speak for themselves?
Between the speed of both Weeks and Hart and the long-ball proclivity of Braun, Fielder and Cameron, why risk the out on the bases? A hit of any power that stays in the park gives both Weeks and Hart a decent chance of scoring from first. Any home run makes which base they're on irrelevant.
Is this a valid question on Macha's managerial style or is the aggressiveness only so shocking because we saw so little of it last season?
1 recs |
24 comments
|
Comments
It is strange
As much as the announcers harp on Macha’s belief that a baserunner needs to succeed 75% of the time on attempts (which is true and I think Macha believes this), the number of outs on the basepaths is strange.
I think the issue is that Macha has given Weeks and Hart the “go when you want” option, but their judgement has been lacking thus far. Cedar is still at first, so the time information is the same … I think it’s poor decisions by the runners. And I hope it stops.
My non-embarrassing thoughts on the Brewers:
Two Fisted Slopper
by nmc on Apr 30, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that the other day too
Hart I thought had decent speed, but perhaps they are picking the wrong pitchers/cathcers to run against.
If you get agressive against the players bad at keeping runners on, stolen bases are worth it. But if the Brewers continnue to get thrown out at this rate, it is hurting their chances to score obviously and not worth the risk.
Macha’s control of the running game concerns me for the pitchers. To me it seems the pitcher and catcher can manage this on their own. It seems too much like a parent in the stands telling their kids what to do. It should be an instinct the pitcher has, to evaluate the size of the lead and whether to throw back or pitch out.
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Apr 30, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just read Ron Darling’s book The Complete Game and he’s not fond of managers calling the running game from the bench. (He’s not fond of a lot of things that don’t allow pitcher and catcher to think for themselves, in fact.) Is this something that’s changed over the years?
by morineko on Apr 30, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps Macha's rebelling against the Moneyball station-to-station philosophy
From his time with the A’s?
I know Joe Morgan would approve.
by Rubie Q on Apr 30, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you don't mind
I changed “Corey and Hart” to “Weeks and Hart” in the second-to-last paragraph.
It is pretty unusual. At first I had assumed it was just Macha being unfamiliar with his players. But Rickie’s already been caught stealing as many times this season as he had been in all of 2007.
Both Rickie and Corey are putting up SLG numbers way way above their career norms. Did both of them bulk up in the offseason? Maybe they’re, well, slower.
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on Apr 30, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think both of them added some muscle mass
Does that mean Bill Hall is faster?
by tcyoung on Apr 30, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They said at the beginning of the year that Rickie added like 5 pounds of muscle
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on Apr 30, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
saw him in spring training
and he was huge, almost Belliard-esque
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Apr 30, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem running with 2 outs and Braun up.
I actually predicted that they would send Rickie before he ran. If your guy is batting 330, you want Rickie in scoring position. If he gets caught, it’s not a big deal, because Braun is still up. Plenty of managers do this.
by tcyoung on Apr 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It was also a full count. If Braun walks it would have been irrelevant. If Braun gets a hit, the likelihood of scoring increases significantly. If Braun hits a grounder it diminishes the chance of a double play.
It was close to giving an extra at bat for Braun against what would likely be a Pirates reliever.
by ol Pete on Apr 30, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also agree
but, for clarification it was a 2-2 count. If it was a 3-2 count (with two outs, as it were) it would have been irrelevant as Rickie would have been running anyway.
But, I agree with your point. Snell was giving Braun fits all day, but was at 130 pitches, so you know that if Rickie gets caught ,Braun comes up next inning against fresh meat.
by cmow on Apr 30, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there were 2 outs, so a double play wasn't of concern.
I’m looking at it this way:
Let’s start by assuming that Rickie Weeks isn’t going to score on a double. This might not be 100% true, the chances of Braun hitting a double and Weeks scoring from first are pretty insignificant.
That means that the only way Weeks scores is on a HR or 2 hits. Given that Braun has hit 5 homers in 78 at bats, let’s assume the chances of him hitting a home run are 6.4%. Since he is batting .333 and Fielder is batting .243, the chances of both of them getting a hit are 8.1%.
Now let’s say Weeks has a 50% chance of stealing that base. The chances of him stealing a base, and Braun getting a hit are 16.7%.
Now, I didn’t take value into account. Although that would affect decision making (A 2 run homer is worth more than a 1 run homer), both sides could really be affected pretty equally.
by tcyoung on Apr 30, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think?
Let’s start by assuming that Rickie Weeks isn’t going to score on a double. This might not be 100% true, the chances of Braun hitting a double and Weeks scoring from first are pretty insignificant.
The chances of Rickie scoring from first on a double don’t seem, anecdotally, insignificant to me. Maybe not expected, but not so rare as to be written off.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on Apr 30, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 things about that
A. I’m not sure how to make even an educated guess as to his chances of scoring from 1st.
B. It has more to do with the chances of Braun Hitting a double being multiplied by the chances of Rickie scoring from first on a double.
by tcyoung on Apr 30, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given Rickie's speed, past tendencies and the score of the game
If Braun doubles with two outs and Weeks is on first, the odds of him being sent home are really close to 100%, and the odds of him scoring are at least 90.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by KLSnow on Apr 30, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vs the odds of Rickie successfully stealing and Braun getting a hit that advances Rickie two bases
by cmow on Apr 30, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
I assumed he was scoring on 100% of singles.
by tcyoung on Apr 30, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thirded
if we’re talking about situation, i think a stolen base can help jumpstart things when the offense is otherwise lacking. a single scores a runner from second, not (typically) first. and if you think you have a good chance (say, more than 75%) of success, then it might be worth doing. for instance, i also didn’t have a problem with braun trying to steal in the 9th against the mets. (although when braun looked winded from all the foul balls in his first few tries, i’d guess the likelihood of success dropped).
if this is about gross steals, the 8 steals looks to be at about the same rates macha had in oakland:
‘03 – 48 steals/ 14 caught
’04 – 47/ 22
’05 – 31/ 22
’06 – 61/ 20.
none of those steal totals were above 10th most in the league. and the rate looks about the same as what we’re seeing now (for simplicity, 8 steals x 6 months = 48 steals for the year).
so it’s a matter of why we’re not being 75%+ successful, no? are these guys slower, getting shorter leads, attempting against good catchers, or just “unlucky” (in which case it should even out)?
by Capt Science on Apr 30, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that it was a good call in last night's situation too
From Braun’s earlier at bats, I would have bet that the pitch he went on would be a slider in the dirt. And worse case scenario, Weeks gets caught and Braun gets a fresh AB against someone he hadn’t struck out against three times already.
by friendo on Apr 30, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Why does a team that scores like 75% of its runs from homers steal in anything less than slam dunk situations? What was with making Kendall try to steal last week? Or last year with Prince? Is this some kind of mind game they’re playing with the catcher? Do they think he’s going to stare in disbelief long enough that they can actually make it?
by JAMOOL on Apr 30, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On a somewhat unrelated note
Last year, Kendall did significantly improve his throw out percentage from the year before… maybe the scouting report issued to most teams was that Kendall was easy to steal on, so most teams did it more frequently than they should have because they thought it would be easier, and with that perhaps sending slower runners leading to a higher throw out percentage…
This year he may seem good again to opposing teams, but maybe only the best basestealers are stealing on him, and teams are more cognizant he may be decent, even though it seems his numbers will be well before his percentage last year.
Maybe I am over thinking this, but the choices of who to steal when may have a lot to do with these statistics- rather than the skill set of a specific catcher
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.
by Kyguy922 on Apr 30, 2009 1:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i would agree that
only better basestealers would try to steal at this point in the season, and that may increase the success rate. however last year he really did seem to be able to throw out even the better runners. this year he looks like crap. poor transfer to throwing hand, poor footwork. i’ve seen on more than one occasion his front foot way off line and pointed basically towards third.
by goirish2107 on Apr 30, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm procrastinating
on actual work, so i looked it up. here are the baserunners who stole against kendall and their career-to-date success rate (per baseball reference):
steals
4/8 – winn 2 (71%)
4/12 – gathright (74%), soriano (78%), theriot (76%)
4/14 – taveras 2 (83%)
4/18 – reyes (80%)
4/21 – ibanez (61%)
4/22 – werth (88%)
4/24 – bourn (82%)
4/25 – pence (62%)
total – 12
caught
4/10 – fontenot (58%)
4/26 – pence (62%)
total – 2
so, yes, the successful stealers do look generally like they’re better at it. so there could be some selection going on there. but it could be that some teams can read the pitchers (or macha’s signals) better, or poor footwork, etc… (as suggested elsewhere).
(and no, i’m not going to look up everyone’s success rates from last season! i can’t procrastinate that long!)
by Capt Science on Apr 30, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It must be Lake Michigan
The only team worse than the Brewers are the Cubs. They’re 8 for 17 instead of 8 for 16. League average is 73% this year so it’s not an unusual year, overall.
by ecocd on Apr 30, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 


























