Brew Crew Ball: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Fedor vs Rogers Results and Live Coverage

Why the Brewers are a Little Underrated

Last year's Brewers team had, in total, about an 87-win true talent estimate. We can attribute the fact that they won 90 games to some clutch hitting, clutch/lucky bullpen pitching, and a little bit of luck.

Five of those wins were contributed by one CC Sabathia, and as you may have heard, he is no longer a Brewer. Another five came from Sheets. So the Brewers start this season with something pretty close to the same roster, with the only big additions being Trevor Hoffman and Braden Looper as well as some shuffling of bullpen arms and bench players. So we are looking at an 80-ish win true talent team, right?

Let's go back to the start of 2008. Projections would have put the Brewers at about 86 wins at that point, counting on effective seasons from Gallardo and Sheets. The loss of Gallardo, the fact that the offense underperformed, and the utter inteptitude of the bullpen (it had a total WAR of zero, meaning they contributed absolutely nothing to that 87-win true talent estimate of last year's team) dropped that true talent down to about 82. Sabathia was able to make up the deficit by himself, and the context-based factors I already mentioned bumped us up to 90 wins and a playoff spot.

So the Brewers are in a unique situation here of having lost two five-win players. The idea proposed here is that at least one of those five-win players is naturally replaced by doing nothing at all, mainly having the offense meet their projections and the bullpen performing even slightly above replacement level. To replace those other five wins, the Brewers can count on Looper and Hoffman to contribute a few wins, and any contributions from Gallardo can go there as well, considering he contributed almost no value in last year's "looking back" record.

To buy into this concept you have to recognize that the Brewers outperformed their context-neutral stats last year and "should have" won 87 games; to rephrase, if you played the season again, and every pitcher and hitter produced the exact same events, you would expect the Brewers to win 87 games. They lost 10 wins from that team, and replaced those ten wins with two players who are expected to provide about three. But what you are not seeing is that Gallardo's contributions, the expected improvement in offensive production, and the bullpen's return to respectability are going to bring up that expected win total to almost exactly where we started last year, and in a strange twist, almost exactly where we ended last year (I am referencing WAR-based record again, not actual record).

To expand a bit on the bullpen, we know that last year-- in context neutral evaluation, anyway-- it was absolutely awful, contributing nothing to the team. Maybe the three extra wins above the WAR-based expected record were in part due to the fact that the bullpen allowed fewer runs than their context-neutral stats would have suggested. This year, our projections give us a rough 3.96 WAR projection for the entire bullpen, led from about 1.5 wins from Villanueva, .75 from Hoffman, and another win from Stetter and Swindle (who got 30 innings in our projections).

I promised a wrapup offense projection post, and I will include it here because there is not a lot of commentary left to provide. The hitters project to total about 8 wins above average and about 24-25 more wins than a team of replacement-level players. Are we giving ourselves too much credit? Well, our hitting projections are in line with established systems like CHONE, and our offense totals are still lower than teams like Colorado and Chicago. And in actuality, the WARs of the position players last year are also around 24, mostly driven by bench players like Kapler and Branyan-- we have already established that the five core players can be expected to improve about 5 wins this year. Much of the offensive improvement is actually wiped out by our expectation of lesser bench performance. Still, it is likely that we will see some gains in the overall offensive production that will help make up those 10 wins.

Talent_medium

The overall spreadsheet for the WAR project that lists all of the community projections is right here. Click the MIL tab at the bottom of the page to see the final projections for all the players for yourself. Take the 88.7 win talent with a grain of salt at this point, all of the numbers in the project do seem a bit high-- which does make sense when you consider that many season-ending injuries will occur and though we account for players missing some time, we cannot predict these larger-scale injuries. So I am expecting that the whole league will be a bit higher in the wins category than would be possible.

Even though I am not bold enough to predict that 88.7 number, I think a valid case can be made that the Brewers got very close to replacing the ten wins they lost last year, though not necessarily by adding players. If I had to throw a number out there for the Brewers true talent right now, I would say 85 or 86 wins. Natural probability and randomness could put this team, if moderately healthy, in a 84-88 win window. 

So to recap quickly-- how did we get from 87 last year to 85 or 86 this year? Start with 87. Subtract 5 for Sabathia and 5 for Sheets. Add about 1 or 2 for offensive improvement ("rebound", if you will), add 3 or 4 for gains from the bullpen and the additions of Hoffman and others, and add 4 for a season of Gallardo and the addition of Looper. This team is awfully close to where it was last year, even after considering the contributions of Sabathia. 

How about we just let the national media continue to think that losing Sabathia is a blow that is impossible to overcome, though? That will make this season a lot more fun. Especially when all the stories about how Gallardo and Parra are single-handedly replacing CC and Sheets begin to come out. 

This team is not as good as the team that the Brewers put on the field last September, that much is obvious. But when you step back and look at the overall picture, the projected record at the beginning of 2008, the "looking back" true-talent record for 2008, and our projected record right now are all within a few wins of each other.

We will keep an eye on all of our projections, and I plan to do a few posts for after the season comparing our projections to the major systems. Hopefully, the Beyond the Boxscore project will get pulled together soon, as well, so we can compare the Brewers to the other teams in the division. But I have to say that the future looks much more bright than I would have anticipated when preparations for this season (and this community projections project) began.

This team has a very good offense, a slightly above-average starting staff with good potential, a solid and about average bullpen. and plenty of depth. If you take away anything from this and the community projections project, make it be this: all of it adds up to an above-average team that should be considered a very viable wildcard contender. And there is always time to bring in some reinforcements at the deadline, or a new mercenary.

All of the projections are catalogued in the spreadsheet linked here for reference. You will notice that I never actually found the average averages of some bench players, because these were not relevant to the WAR spreadsheet. Everything else we projected should be listed there, and I will be interested to see how our projections line up to what actually occurs. Thanks to everyone for participating, it is an interesting project and we will be looking back at those throughout the year. For now, let us stop projecting; we get to see what actually happens.

0 recs  |  Comment 10 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Brew Crew Ball

Tuesday's Frosty Mug

Nov 2009 by KLSnow - 32 comments

The Brewers, Twitter and You

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 15 comments

World Series Game 1 Open Thread

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 30 comments

Wednesday's Frosty Mug

Oct 2009 by KLSnow - 61 comments

Comments

Display:

NL Central

Did other teams in the NL Central outperform their WAR?

by tcyoung on Apr 6, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As simple as I am....

I quite enjoyed reading this. Go Brewers, for thou hast the name of numbers in ye back-pocket (the one without the Skoal).

by One-Flap Down on Apr 6, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff

The projections you use, are they yours or from fangraphs?

I like Baseball Prospectus’ WARP stuff a little more, although its because its the site I visit most often.

I think that one thing that people who are making the argument like yours do (unintentionally or not) to move the Brewer predictions to the upside, is exaggerate the performance of the offense, and lessen the impact of Sheets contribution last year.

When I look at BP, they have the offense adding one win over last year. These include regressions from Kendall and Hardy and increases from Fielder, Weeks, Hall, Braun and Hart (combined 7.4) but the Kendall, Hardy and Kapler/Branyan losses almost take that all away.

And I see Sheets as having more like a 7 game effect last year. I’ll give you the 5 for Sabathia, but dont forget the 4 added by Torres. Regressions by Suppan, Bush and Parra (over 2 games worth) and a cancelling out of Gallardo for Sheets still puts the team at a negative WARP (by a very large margin). Hoffman misses the mark vs Torres by at least a game and a half (and that doesnt even factor in that his projections are for Petco, not Miller Park).

Add that all up and youre at about 81 wins. Ive got them at 82. I just seem to think that the argument you have made, albeit some parts valid, is one that only Brewer people are making, and when you do, you tend to be a bit optimistic about things.

by backtocali on Apr 6, 2009 1:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fangraphs has Sheets at 4.6 WAR for last year

Which seems about right to me; he missed a few starts, and had some rough starts after the all-star break, which’d make it really hard to add up to 7 wins. I don’t know if you’re predicting Suppan, Bush, and Parra to regress in a positive or negative direction, but I would suspect Suppan and Parra to perform better than last year, and Bush to do worse. As for Hoffman v. Torres, well, first of all, Fangraphs has Torres at 0.4 WAR last year, not 4, so I guess a lot of this is BPro vs. other sites. At any rate, Hoffman may not be able to reproduce Torres’ production (although if the number is just 0.4 WAR, I imagine Hoffman should be able to match that…), but the bullpen as a whole, as noted above, was replacement level, and one would hope the bullpen this year can be at least a win or two above that.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Apr 6, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the projections are BCB community projections

You can find all the writeups in my user blog in my profile, or click the “2009 community projections” tag above.

I have no idea where you’re getting 4 wins from Torres. His actual performance was good, but his context-neutral stuff was not good at all— nearly below replacement level. And that bullpen overall contributed about 0 war. That’s part of the reason why I’m using 87 for last year instead of 90.

And my offensive increase is actually not much of one. I tried to point out in the post that the actual gain I am expecting is like 1-2 wins. +5 from the core 5 guys and -3 from losing bench players like Kapler and Branyan compared to the replacement level guys.

Our community projections have Suppan and Parra getting a little better and Bush getting a bit worse. 20 innings from Yovani v. 180 innings from Yovani is about 4 wins. And as I said, the bullpen, we’re projecting 4 wins based on the community projections for leverage, ERA, and innings compared to 0 last year.

The artist formerly known as jihad.

by Jordan M on Apr 6, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quoting myself from BTF

I’ve been thinking of it this way: it’s really not that hard to see Gallardo-Parra-Bush being a pretty solid 2-3-4, but since we’re instead asking them to be 1-2-3, we’re essentially replacing an ace with a #4 starter. That’s not good, but I think positive regressions from both the offense and the bullpen can cover a significant amount of that gap. Obviously, the Brewers actually have to come up with a fourth starter too, but I’d like to think either Looper or McClung can be that guy.

jeff: but i shudder to think of the bullpen analogy to sending the runner

by battlekow on Apr 6, 2009 6:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Another thing to keep in mind

is defense. There’s a widespread impression that the Brewers are poor defensively, but they actually ranked 5th in MLB (tied with Boston), and 2nd in the NL, in DER last season. I think the poor defense impression is because of Fielder, Weeks, and Braun, even though Braun is pretty solid in left now. Weeks is below average, Fielder is way below average, Hall is above average (anecdotally he’s not, but UZR has him at +4.5 runs for last year), Braun and Hart are about average, and JJ, Cameron, and Kendall are all well above average. I’d say that should add up to another year of above average defense, with JJ, Cameron, and Kendall being more than good enough to offset Fielder and Weeks, and Braun, Hart, and Hall continuing to be solid.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Apr 6, 2009 7:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's certainly possible

though I wouldn’t be surprised to see them come out above average. Either way, though, I’ve seen a few places that people seem to think this is a bad defensive team, and that just isn’t the case.

Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?

by Lefti on Apr 6, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Brew Crew Ball is dedicated to providing a friendly atmosphere for intelligent Brewer conversation. Click here to view our Posting Guide and Community Guidelines.
Start posting about the Brewers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Barrelman_small
Updated 2010 Brewers Roster/Salary Predictions
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
2009 Offseason Free Agency Dates
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Speculationville: Glen Perkins
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Somebody Get Me My Cardboard: Bob Wolfley Breaks It Down
Small
Brewers Minor League Leaders thru the 00's - Strikeouts
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
JJ Hardy's Trade Value
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
Tangentially related Brewers news
Rubie_edited-1_small
Yosty! A Retrospective
Small
Brewers Minor League Leaders thru the 00's - Saves
U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small
MLBTR's Bad Contract Swap Meet

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Featured Poll

Poll
Who won the J.J. Hardy/Carlos Gomez trade?

  51 votes | Results

79 - 82

11

Won 3

1

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
St. Louis 91 71 .561 0 Lost 6
Chicago 83 78 .515 7.5 Lost 1
Milwaukee 80 82 .493 11 Won 3
Cincinnati 78 84 .481 13 Won 2
Houston 74 88 .456 17 Lost 3
Pittsburgh 62 99 .385 28.5 Lost 2

(updated 11.7.2009 at 10:17 AM CST)

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

The Pilots/Brewers First Home Game
You think you know the Brewers Farm System? You've got nothing on this guy.
Red Sox offered Bowden for Hardy?
Melvin: "We are going to consider [Lucroy] as a candidate
Hot Stove: Garland's option declined, will be a FA
Post on Minor League Ball asking for top 5 Brewers prospects
Alcides Escobar "abandoned his daughter before she was born"
Cain, Lucroy, Green in the lineup in the AFL tonight.
Why I haven't watched an inning of playoff baseball this year
Committing 10% of your payroll to a non-premium guy who'll throw under 4%...

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Moderators

U8xcikxxuei8lvi_small roguejim

Mordecai_brown_small Jeff Sackmann

Newavatar_small KLSnow

Box_small TheJay

Communist_party_small Jordan M

Contributors

Dsci0355_small kirbir

Picture_069_small tristarscoop

Dsc01174_small BrewHaHeather

Rubie_edited-1_small Rubie Q

Hikaru_50_small morineko

X1pxoywqu4sjf73f7drxq2lmqys7mzsyx7pa9necepiffk_ewcuwmuazb-o17ukmbriclcdkn4lk-4xposaawiq4j8hzdsccpjwatqpz2o2p-i0nnqjlyt7pmytaycsaknszvaktpshtcu9sjle1qchlw_1__small NoahJ

Hulk_buddy-icon_small Fatter than Joey