Cubs 4, Brewers 2
by KLSnow on May 10, 2009 4:20 PM CDT
47 comments
W: Sean Marshall (1-2)
L: Jeff Suppan (2-3)
S: Kevin Gregg (6)
HR: Rickie Weeks (7), Alfonso Soriano (10)
MVP: Rickie Weeks (+.124)
LVP: J.J. Hardy (-.206)
Win Expectancy Graph
SBNation Coverage
No sweep, but still a pretty good series.
The Brewers jumped out to an early lead today, including a leadoff home run from Rickie Weeks, and led 2-0 in the third before Jeff Suppan allowed four runs, including a two-run shot by Alfonso Soriano, and the two teams were done scoring for the day.
All told, Suppan allowed four runs (three earned) on eight hits and two walks in six innings, getting credited with a quality start. The Brewers got a perfect inning from Carlos Villanueva and two more scoreless frames from Mark DiFelice. After allowing a run in each of the first two innings, Sean Marshall settled down and allowed just those two runs on five hits in five innings, before getting four scoreless innings of relief from Angel Guzman, Carlos Marmol and Kevin Gregg.
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Management fail
Kendall in the 8th with bases loaded? Seriously?
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
true
and Kendallfail as well, because he just sucks at life… oh well, I’ll just post the BCB Fantasy league update to bring me joy
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on May 10, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will look forward to the update
Being in 1st place :)
by Saltire on May 10, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as i'm concerned, macha doesn't make managerial decisions
he makes ‘buddy’ decisions.
by sowingwildoats on May 10, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, none of you know how baseball works.
by Metagen on May 10, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
aparently not
I guess we have no concept
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on May 10, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think its funny how much bitching there is about Kendall.
He certainly wasn’t the brewer who played the worst today. And he still gets bitched at the most. Your idea is that your going to sub Kendall out, showing him no respect whatsoever, and have Corperan catch the rest of the game? You don’t just sub out people because they aren’t batting .300. Our 4 and 6 hitters went 0-8, including not being able to get Braun in from 3rd with no outs. If your looking for a reason as to why we lost, thats it.
by Metagen on May 10, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the fact
that it wouldn’t be showing Kendall any “respect” to sub him out in a huge moment like that is a reason not to. That said, I do agree that he’s getting a disproportionate amount of the criticism for something that the whole lineup is really responsible for.
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
by Lefti on May 10, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that our bench is horrible this year.
With the one exception being Counsell.
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on May 10, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a legitimate reason not to pinch hit
I’m not saying it definitely would’ve been better to pinch-hit, I’m just saying “respect” isn’t a very good reason not to.
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
by Lefti on May 10, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Braun, et al hadn't gotten any hits today
doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have in a late-inning situation.
Whereas Kendall legitimately sucks, and as a general rule continues to suck regardless if the situation is late inning-everything-on-the-line or just a standard AB.
Kendall knows he isn’t an offensive powerhouse. He knows he’s in the game for defense only. If we’re down quite a bit, and this is our only legitimate shot to take the lead or tie it, we have to take the chance that someone else’s defense will let us down the next half inning.
Keep in mind that any backup catcher would only have to play a single inning defensively. They’re professionals – I think they can handle it. Sure…maybe they’ll give up a PB or a WP, but chances of that are even less than that of Kendall getting a hit.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it's Corporan, not Corperan
But don’t mind me, I’m just the guy who doesn’t know how baseball works.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by KLSnow on May 10, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Brilliant response.
Did this turn into a Cubs site in the last 24 hours? We’re the guys who don’t bitch at each other after one loss… remember?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 10, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "brilliant response" read sarcastic after I posted it.
It wasn’t intended that way. It was actually sincere.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 10, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Metagen may be wrong, but at least he's participating in game threads and actually seems to care about the team
The same cannot be said of dear, departed backtocali.
Metagen, we appreciate your passion, but please phrase your disagreements a little more respectfully.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on May 11, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That other guy just follows the Brewers through opponent blogs :)
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 11, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
man
people who use the Back to Cali phrase don’t fare too well. First Biggie and now this clown.
by molitorfan on May 11, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With 3 catchers on the roster (McGehee being the 3rd), there is NO REASON to worry about our 2nd catcher getting injured.
That, I assume, is what you’re referring to.
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on May 10, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about lack of management thinking...
Subbing in Rivera for Kendall at that point because he’s a better hitter is an option. But I assume your idea is that your pinch-hitting for Kendall, using Corp as the catcher, but he wouldn’t pinch hit sooo…now your taking out one of your starters? whos it going to be?
And assume you actually tie the game, now you have a 3rd rate catcher batting above the 8th spot in the lineup, a starting player out of the game for the bottom of the 9th, and a catcher who hasn’t caught all year assuming the game continues.
It’s not an option.
by Metagen on May 10, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh
Sub a pinch-hitter for Kendall, then pinch hit Corporan (or McGehee, if you trust his hitting) in the 9 spot if he reaches; otherwise, pinch-hit for Kendall, have Corporan take over for the pinch hitter in the 8 spot.
There are various other ways to do it, but you don’t need to take a starter out of the game.
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
by Lefti on May 10, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starter other than Kendall, that is
obviously
Brewers Baseball and other assorted nonsense (mostly the assorted nonsense) at my blog, What's a Tararrel?
by Lefti on May 10, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly my point
you can sub counsell in the 8-hole. Then you pull a catcher-pitcher double-switch bringing in Corporan. Or you have Corporan prepare to hit 9th, effectively pulling the double-switch in the offensive half of the inning.
Rivera isn’t entering into the discussion here: he’s on the DL still (last I checked).
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why on earth would Corporan hit in anything but a blowout?
I’m sure Duffy or Nelson would have hit in the 9th spot if Counsell reached for Kendall.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 10, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the game is tied
you might not want to use up your entire bench before the next time the order comes around.
sorry…I beg ignorance on Corporan’s batting ability. You could slot in McGehee instead if you’re happy having him (McG) behind the plate in the 9th.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom H is that you?
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
by Michael M on May 10, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
there is no excuse having Jason Kendall batting in the highest leverage situation in the game. I would much rather have… well anyone available than Kendall in there, except maybe Chad Moeller.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on May 10, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ryan dempster didn't pitch today :)
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
by Michael M on May 10, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was about to say…pretty good if he can go 2 days in a row :)
by Wayfaerer on May 10, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can fix that!
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 10, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Jay.
This is why I need a full time copy editor. :-)
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by KLSnow on May 10, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-10 RISP
is why we lost today.
Also Hart,Fielder and JJ went a combined 0-13.
by Saltire on May 10, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yes, that was the primary factor
that could have been compensated for by a single critical pinch-hit though. Hence management fail.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if Nelson pinch hit for Kendall?
Or Counsell pinch hit for Kendall, drove in only one, leaving the bases loaded down 4-3 for [crappy PH] in the #9 spot?
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 10, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then you have to make another decision
here are two previous quotes of mine:
“if he gets a hit and plates 2, you then have a choice: Corporan to become the catcher, or a pure pinch hitter (McGeehee, Nelson). If he walks, you kinda have to not completely burn your bench, so you slot in Corporan regardless. If he gets an out, well, you’ll do a pitcher-catcher double switch, the pitcher is now in the 8 slot. Or leave the pitcher in there and just sub in Corporan for Kendall and pinch hit for the pitcher after his day is done anyway (bottom 9)”
“Keep in mind that any backup catcher would only have to play a single inning defensively. They’re professionals – I think they can handle it. Sure…maybe they’ll give up a PB or a WP, but chances of that are even less than that of Kendall getting a hit.”
The highest leverage spot is with the bases loaded and down 2, as it’s the situation right in front of you. Sure…down 1 is a slightly higher leverage situation, but you need to get through the “down 2” situation to get to the “down 1” situation. Regardless, I believe you have a better chance to score two runs with two down and the bases loaded than you do in a fresh inning with two runs to score. Or you at least improve your odds by only making yourself one down, so you only have to score one run in the 9th to tie.
So, I’d go with Counsell subbing in for Kendall in the order, and if he walks or drives in one, extending the inning, then you pinch hit McGeehee or Corporan (whichever combination of offense right then and defense in the catcher slot for one inning) you believe will suit you best.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Responding to this and your reply to me above to keep things in one place
If Counsell gets on, I think it’s likely he drives in only one given his lack of power (last night’s HR notwithstanding), leaving it 4-3 with the bases loaded for McGehee, Nelson, or Corporan against Marmol. In other words, a little-used righty, a lefty who doesn’t have a hit all year, and a guy who hits like Kendall…in the minors. Plus, if you’re going to burn through two pinch-hitters (assuming Corporan isn’t used with the bases loaded down one or two on in a tied game in the 8th – that would be “management fail”) in the bottom of the eighth, you might as well use three guys off the bench so you have an actual catcher behind the plate in the 9th. If using that much of the bench in the space of one out makes you uncomfortable, maybe you’ve just discovered why pinch-hitting for Kendall isn’t automatic there.
If you pinch-hit Counsell and he gets out, you’re not only down 2 to start the ninth inning, but you’re down two with the pitcher’s spot leading off and only McGehee and Nelson left to pinch hit. I’d rather take my chances with Counsell reaching base and the top of the order coming up. Either way, I’ll leave it at this: just because Kendall is a godawful hitter doesn’t mean taking him out makes things better, especially with this bench.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 10, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to agree with the last sentence...
… but it’s undeniably true. It’s becoming apparent that the bench as currently constructed is really chapping Macha’s ass too.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 10, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"If using that much of the bench in the space of one out makes you uncomfortable, maybe you’ve just discovered why pinch-hitting for Kendall isn’t automatic there."
As I said, I’d rather take my chances by giving it my best shot in the 8th.
And no…I’m not truly uncomfortable with burning most/all of the bench in the 8th and 9th. I wish we had an alternative (a good hitting catcher on the bench) to make it simpler.
But based on what Counsell does, then you make a call as to who steps up to bat for the next AB in the 8th, if there is one. I’m assuming there’s a spot other than the on-deck circle where someone can warm up their swing so you can have 2 guys ready, depending on the situation.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Kendall groundout
OK, we all give Kendall a hard time around here, but let’s be honest, he is still basically as good of a hitter as anyone we have on the bench right now (not necessarily saying a lot, but still…), including Counsell. You can fault him for his atrocious start, but he has been hitting much better lately including a triple in today’s game.
Assume Counsell pinch-hit for him and flew out (as, coincidentally, he did when he actually came into the game…), then you have to use Corporan for the next inning, and then yet another pinch-hitter for the pitcher’s spot in the ninth.
Counsell arguably would have been better in that spot than Kendall, but not by enough to justify the use of three pinch-hitters, especially when the foreseeable target is just tying the game and going into extra innings.
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on May 10, 2009 7:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He did make that mind-numbingly dumb "throw" to Suppan at the plate...
… despite the fact that the runner hadn’t left third base yet.
That was little league quality stuff right there.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 10, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Suppan:
When your catcher is furiously running down a wild pitch, how about shouting “NO THROW!” or “EAT IT!” or something. You’re the one with a view of the play and (ought to) know if the runner’s going or not. The fact that he kept his big dumb mouth shut is just mind boggling. Kinda reminds me of him missing the squeeze sign TWICE last season. Fundamental baseball plays that cost us on the scoreboard. I’m not as big a Soup hater as some people but, geez is it hard to defend the guy on plays like that.
by magoo on May 10, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"then you have to use Corporan for the next inning, and then yet another pinch-hitter for the pitcher’s spot in the ninth."
as to the pitcher’s spot (if it’s still in the 9 hole) well, yeah;)
of course you would. in the bottom of the 9th at home, the pitcher as a pitcher is completely irrelevant.
Also, if you do a double-switch when you bring in Corporan, you’re not burning 3 players off the bench. Only two (Counsell who goes back on the bench to watch the game, and Corporan/McGehee who subs in for Kendall).
by PagsBrewCrew on May 10, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question remains, who off the bench is a better hitter than Kendall?
Duffy/Nelson/McGehee/Corporan? Considering their career and season numbers, I don’t see how anyone is justifying any of them being better hitters than Kendall, even crappy 2009 Kendall.
Counsell has had a hot start to the season, but he is not a better hitter than Kendall. And if you’re just going on who’s “hot,” Kendall has hit in 10 of his last 11 games.
Would you have pinch-hit for Hardy in the same situation?
Ryan Braun: He loves it.
by SRB on May 10, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would the fact that with RHP Marmol pitching
Mean that the precentages favour hitting Counsell or Nelson rather than Kendall?
Marmol’s platoon splits in his career show that LH hitters get on base (and with the bases loaded this is the number 1 aim) 15% more often and they slug .134 higher aswell.
The whole point of having a Left hand hitting bench is to compensate for the RH hitting starting line-up that we have so that we can gain the platoon advantage late in the game. Having constructed the bench in this way it is crazy not to utilize it when the situation arises.
I know some people have argued they were worry about using too many bench spots in one innings but to be honest it would of been nice to have the problem of no pinch hitters left in the 10th inning rather than losing in 9.
by Saltire on May 11, 2009 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have pinch-hit Counsell for Hall myself
I know Hall ended up walking, but if I’m managing there’s no way I let him face a righty with a slider liker Marmol’s with the game on the line.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on May 11, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 11.22.2009 at 10:31 AM CST)
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