Comments
I think
the scariest part of that page is the ad for Grease starring Taylor Hicks.
"If lovin’ Braun is wrong, I want to be a repeat offender!"
RIP Nick Adenhart - Stop Drunk Driving
by kirbir on May 30, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was expecting something other than the UPS store to pop up when I put my mouse over "protective packaging"
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 30, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that he drives them around the country himself
A real go-getter…or go-seller, I guess.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 30, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was angry when I saw this in the paper this morning
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with profiting off of people by sellling a product like this
In fact, I’d say it’s clever or good to take advantage of a situation like that to make a quick profit.
On the other side, I’d also use the false self-righteousness line for the people that would buy it. I could write pages and pages about the whole steroid thing and why it pisses me off so much, but the essence is that there’s no clear boundary between “cheating” and “not cheating”, that stuff was as legal as anything else. The steroid garbage is just the media’s excuse to care about baseball, when actual baseball fans don’t really give a shit.
Should we ban Lasik and eyeglasses? What about food? Caffiene? Pitchers that undergo tommy john surgery might gain an advantage, should we ban that? People should read this, and the comments that come after it.
Back to the main point, I don’t like anything that brings more attention to the whole steroid situation because about 95% of people are misinformed— they think the roids are going to make people hit homers. It’s media-driven irrelevance by moral crusaders who don’t even understand what is going on.
If people can profit off of that, it’s fine and smart. But my stance on calling Rodriguez “A-roid” is that it is pretty dumb.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
sorry...
i’m with the media on this one.
Steroids are f*cking with a body’s natural chemistry and allow someone to perform acts that they wouldn’t have been able to do with all the training in the world.
I know LASIK allows someone to do something that they couldn’t have doen with all the training in the world, but vision is somewhat of a different situation. a) LASIK helps level the field (it’s annoying to play games with glasses that bounce around or contacts that fall out) b) vision is a “secondary” skill. Sure, it assists hand-eye coordination, but it doesn’t make the impossible possible (ie, it wouldn’t help me hit homers, whereas steroids probably would; it doesn’t make it possible for me to throw out someone at home from the outfield either. Steroids + training would).
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be interested to hear...
…. your support for this statement: “they think the roids are going to make people hit homers. It’s media-driven irrelevance by moral crusaders who don’t even understand what is going on.” I don’t think that’s the primary benefit of steroids, but I don’t believe the truth is different in a way that actually matters. But since you brought it up, can you explain?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 30, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, here we go, to both
This will be a long rambling mess, but I have a lot to say.
First: what is the objection of hardcores on this subject? It could be:
1. The steroid users were cheating
2. The steroid users were doing something dangerous/hurting themselves
3. The steroid users were gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors by changing their body in a way competitors didn’t (or couldn’t, I guess, but they had an opportunity to)
4. The steroid users were doing something illegal
5. The steroid users take away the purity of the game
I get that people shouldn’t take steroids because they can do bad things to your body especially if they’re not done right. But why is it more of an issue than the fact that say, NFL lineman only have a lifespan of 46 years? They become so big that they die far faster than almost all people to gain an advantage in a sport. The steroid users weren’t doing anything against the rules of major league baseball at the time… I get that using some of the supplements they did was illegal, and they should face the legal repercussions for what they did, and anyone that uses any performance-enhancing drug right now should be punished and suspended as they are.
Using most steroids that players used just allowed them to train faster and harder, so they could recover more quickly and add muscle mass. I’m by no means an expert but a player could just get on a steroid cycle and not work out and be just as bad as they were before. It’s not a magical potion that allows a pitcher to have better control or a hitter to time a pitch just right.
Then there is the issue of where you draw the line of performance-enhancement. Can you just repair whatever damage occurs while playing baseball, and not add anything that could help? Is it ok then to use a steroid or supplement to recover from an injury if it helps in a stronger recovery? I already mentioned lasik surgery, and caffeine is an interesting one to me— is it ok to drink a soda or take a caffeine pill before a game? It’s not against the rules, caffiene can potentially be harmful, and it helps you gain an advantage by doing something your body cannot naturally do. Same thing with amphetamies, they were using them back into the 70s.
What if we came up with a way to improve athletic performance and muscle strength with an effective procedure that carried few health risks? Wouldn’t you want your team to pursue that? If so, then you have to object to the steroid use as a legal or player endangerment issue.
As that Jeff Sullivan post from LL stated above, why are we so outraged about guys using supplements to improve their strength and then we don’t even notice when Gary Matthews Jr. gets a blood infusion procedure to make himself stronger and ready to play earlier than he would have been able to otherwise? Is it ok for a high school pitcher to undergo tommy john surgery if he knows it will gain him 4 mph on his fastball and his arm is otherwise fine?
I will fundamentally disagree about the lasik vs. steroids issue. We’d have to narrow down “steroids”, but there’s not really much proof that they are dangerous if used in the right way or that they really do anything to help a player in his prime years. A broken-down player can definitely be prolonged and helped by the bounceback ability gained from using a drug, but I seriously doubt that A-Rod gained much if any of an advantage by using steroids when he did.
So, finally, do we want to watch a sport with a totally even playing field for everyone based on what they naturally have? Then we’re going to have to eliminate vision correction, any form of surgery, and maybe food. And then is lifting a weight enhancing your performance? It’s training muscles to gain something a player doesn’t naturally have… That’s obviously hyperbole, but if we’re going to allow the correction or enhancement of some things, then where do you draw the line? Tony Gwynn used amphetamines, should he be kept out of the hall of fame? The game is not and cannot be totally pure, and I’m perfectly fine with that. And I don’t understand why people think they have the authority to chastise baseball players for using supplements and steroids, and the media makes it worse. It sickens me to have people try to talk baseball and the only news they know of is “A-Roid”. And baseball is the only sport associated with steroids, the NFL has and had twice as big of a steroid problem, their penalty system is probably weaker than the MLB’s, and the media doesn’t seem to care.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to get back to you on this...
… but I want to think about it for a day or so before I do. Probably no one will read the response, and I don’t really care if they do. Mostly I’m just trying to figure out what I think on the subject and thinking about it for a day and coming up with a written response will help me do that.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 30, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some good points
I agree that if there wasn’t a rule against steroid usage, the player shouldn’t be punished for taking part in the culture. That being said, I find it a crying shame that steroids WEREN’T banned (or at least regulated) until recently.
As to the red-cell doping, it’s illegal in the olympics/world cup – but i don’t know if that applies to both training and competition or competition alone.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahh...a better link
this is the situation that I was trying to find a story for
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TSSC
do you have a personal stake in this? are you the designer? the sales person? another employee at that company?
if so, cool:)
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
But the guy is from the area where I live….
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 30, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more I think about it the prouder I am...
From a business standpoint, the product isn’t a very good idea. They have a wide appeal, but a small market, and with the time he is putting into them, my guess is you could make more money doing just about anything else. And since it isn’t about the money, it has to be about his passion for the purity of the game, which I am a fan of.
by Wackbard on May 30, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just another avenue for people to exercise their self-righteousness
I certainly wouldn’t be proud of it.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on May 30, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I get that argument. But generally speaking I have no problem with the public shaming of criminals. I understand Jordan’s point: cheating has always been part of the culture of baseball. And I don’t really doubt that ARod would have been (and maybe is) a great ballplayer without PEDs. The difference, from my perspective, is that the substances used were actually illegal it import, possess or purchase, and that means anyone who used those substances is or was committing a crime. As a result, I don’t really feel bad for those whose repuatations were or are being destroyed by their use. Does that make me self-righteous? I dont think so, because I’m not comparing them to myself, just the majority of society who’ve never imported and used an illegal substance to try to make themselves something they’re not.
But I’m not sure waving a big foam syringe the proper way to voice that criticism. I admire the guy’s ingenuity, to a degree, and I like that ARod is getting his nose tweaked (even if he doesn’t care one way or the other), but it’s pretty crass, and in general, I think there’s enough crassness in the world as it is.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 30, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I disgree with you. I can't seem to make up my mind, which is why I asked Jordan for his thoughts above.
… But I’m not sure many would be proud of putting a link on a website to something others later referred to as “eel porn” either. But hey, maybe I’m just being self righteous.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on May 30, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, what's with the aggression?
If I was in the eel porn industry or promoting it seriously…but I guess there’s always someone who doesn’t get the joke. We can talk about eel porn all you want. I think it’s hilarious and I’m not ashamed to admit it: I’m an eel porn fan.
This is too loaded a topic to have a rational conversation about, it seems. I’m sorry I answered your question; I won’t make the mistake again.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
by battlekow on May 30, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eel cleavage?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on May 31, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll respond to TSSC and Pags when I have more time, but this quote I just read from the article frustrated me
“This is a way for fans to let Major League Baseball know this will further detract from the game,” Burke said. “It’s just a real disdain for the way he made a mockery of the game.”
I disagree with him and think continually doing what they are doing is detracting from the game just as much as performance-enhancing drugs.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
should i construe that as the opinion that once-they’ve-served-their-time we should consider them as having time served and debt to MLB paid off? Ie, consider them rehabilitated unless we catch them being recidivist?
I actually support that view. I think the initial offense should carry something more weighty than less than 1/3 the season (one full season seems fair), but I agree with the sentiment that once they’ve done their time, we should just let them go about their jobs.
I hope that ARod gets his pee and blood checked frequently though from here on out.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really discredit them because I don't see it as really doing something wrong, I guess
If they get suspended, they hurt their team, so they shouldn’t be using anymore. I’m fine with the system as it is because they haven’t developed the tests well enough yet. But it still doesn’t answer the question of how a steroid user can be considered a cheat and a fraud and an asshole when someone else who enhanced their performance unnaturally can go entirely unnoticed. I fail to see the difference there, and I would like someone to explain it to me.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depending on what you mean by
when someone else who enhanced their performance unnaturally can go entirely unnoticed.
I conditionally agree. I think due to rules of the players association, not enough players are tested frequently enough. Frankly, everyone should be tested once a month at random. This might also help to establish a baseline for every player. Also, there should be more transparency in the system. Currently, due to MLBPA bargaining, the specific PED info is not released with regard to what each athlete got caught with. Also, the absence of DHEA on the banned list, when other steroids are banned, is laughable – unless that particular drug has been deemed medically innocuous and MLB has taken the viewpoint that only harmful drugs should be banned. I don’t think either of those two conditions has been established, so DHEA should be on the list, US senators who have accepted campaign contributions from DHEA-manufacturing companies be damned.
by PagsBrewCrew on May 30, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But my point is that it doesn't even have to be drugs
I don’t know why steroids and some other drugs are considered a bad type of performance enhancer and other things are OK. There’s some type of random line drawn.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get why cortisone shots are okay
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
by TheJay on May 30, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding that quote
I can honestly say I don’t care much anymore. If I were a dodger fan (like Witrado), I’d be more upset about him being gone for 50 games than the actual PEDs. I think this is most evident by the fact that he’s 4th in the All Star voting
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on May 30, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, exactly
He got suspended. Stupid move, guy. It’s a player issue, I don’t care that it was for PEDs.
Scored three times and detonated an indisputable in four visits to the batting box.
by Jordan M on May 30, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the CW on steroids (right or wrong) is:
1. Although it will help your performance now, it messes with your body in the short term will ultimately kill you. Here’s an interesting line from an ESPIN article on Lyle Alzado:
But in 1992, seven years after playing in his last regular-season game, Alzado died from brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. He was 43. Although there is no medical link between steroids and brain lymphoma, Alzado was certain the drugs were responsible for his cancer.
2. Players who normally wouldn’t take steroids would have to just to keep up with their steroids-using compatriots.
Although it would be useful to study the short- and long-term effects of steroid use, the pro-steroid side of the issue has been pretty quiet. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
by roguejim on May 31, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

























