Suppan makes it hard to hate him
by WSB Chris on Jul 2, 2009 11:05 AM CDT
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As much as I love to bash Jeff Suppan for his on field performance he keeps showing he is a very good guy off the field
Suppan donates 10,000 to Honor Flight
Why do guys like Suppan and Gagne do stuff like this it makes it hard to wish for their deaths when they gack up a game ;) lol
I guess it is nice that he is giving something back I wonder if Barry Zito does stuff like this since his theft makes Suppan seem like a minor thief ;)
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...as long as the veterans acknowledge Jesus Christ as their personal savior
and help to ban stem cell research.
Suppan
Suppan gives an overwhelming amount of money to a variety of charities every year including religious and political ones. You have a right to voice your opinions, just as he does, but to discredit his philanthropy for donating money to causes he believes in is pretty ignorant.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
I'm not disagreeing with that
i’m just disagreeing with the “it’s hard to hate him” bit.
People that are very political on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me AND suck at baseball yet get paid gobs of money to play for my favorite team are in fact very easy to hate.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 2, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I can understand the disagreement/dislike on the stem cell issue...
…. if one is on the other side, but is the fact that he’s a christian really a fair reason to dislike him?
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Not if you're a lion. :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Come on now,,,,
I’m sure some of the lions found christians to be quite tasty.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
"but is the fact that he’s a christian really a fair reason to dislike him?"
Not per se, but if he uses his Christian faith and the disproportionate political power our society grants such faith to force his superstitions on the the rest of us who don’t give a rusty fuck about those beliefs, then, yea, it’s definitely reason enough to dislike him.
I’m not saying that’s what Suppan is doing here (since I have no idea what the Honor Flight program is), but speaking generally, I don’t hold Christians out for any more respect than any other interest group.
Rusty fuck?
Dude, you gotta wait that stuff out.
It was a great selection of awesome.
by battlekow on Jul 2, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The First Amendment
And how is he trying to force his beliefs on you? He has a right to his religious beliefs, and he has a right to voice his opinion on issues and fund causes he supports. I can understand that the stem cell commercial may have rubbed people the wrong way. However, Michael J. Fox had a commercial on that same very night, supporting stem cell research.
Considering that we are about to celebrate our nation’s independence, maybe instead of attacking others for having different beliefs, we should celebrate the fact that we can all live together and voice our views without fear of persecution.
For what it’s worth, Jeff Suppan donates $100,000 to Brewers Charities every year. The Official Site says this about their charities:
The Milwaukee Brewers Baseball Club unveiled Brewers Charities, Inc. in 2000 as a new charitable arm to the organization. The mission of Brewers Charities is to support activities and programs targeted at youth recreation, scholarship and education throughout Milwaukee and Wisconsin. Brewers Charities also holds a number of fundraising events to support these programs including its annual Picnic At Miller Park, the 5K Sausage Run/Walk, scoreboard recognition program, and rummage sales through support from players, coaches and private foundations. Brewers Charities receives and reviews grant requests twice each year; April 1 and December 1.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Click the link...
… and it will take about 3 seconds to realize that the Honor Flight program has nothing to do with religion, let alone Suppan’s beliefs (whatever they are), or any attempt to “force his superstitions” on anyone.
If I seem a little hacked off, I am. I’ve got a problem with people making assumptions about the political and charitable agendas of Christians, and I’ve got a big problem with anyone suggesting that a person’s faith (whether Christian or otherwise) is a legitimate basis to dislike that person (unless, of course, that faith has been twisted into something they use as a justification to kill, subjugate, enslave, etc.) I know you didn’t do that. In fact, with the words “not per se” you tried to spell out that you weren’t doing that. Unfortunately, “not per se” suggests that while a person’s faith isn’t a reason to dislike them, it usually comes with other personality or character traits that results in you disliking them.
I’m not sure what Jesus would do under these circumstances, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t include verbalizing the behavioral suggestion I have in my head right now.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
WBDJR?
What blogs does Jesus read?
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
I'm sure I don't know...
… but I like to think he’d get a laugh out of this one:
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
“Unfortunately, "not per se" suggests that while a person’s faith isn’t a reason to dislike them, it usually comes with other personality or character traits that results in you disliking them.”
Well, it’s only my experience, but yes Christian faith usually does come with traits such as self-righteousness, superiority and persecution complexes, homophobia, etc. So, yea, I usually dislike them. Not always, but usually.
Here’s the thing, they usually don’t like me either (as you proved all too well).
And I don’t understand why people who believe in the supernatural so chafe at the label of superstitious. Especially ironic in a baseball forum.
Actually...
… I don’t feel any dislike for you. The direction the thread ventured into just pissed me off, and that happened before you showed up. Anyway, I get pissed at people I like all the time.
I’d get into the merits of the rest of your post, but I’ve probably irritated enough people by carrying the conversation this far. I will say though that before you lump all of us into having the same personality traits, I’m a Christian and have been since I was a kid, and next year I’m going to be a groomsman in a gay wedding, and I’m damn glad to do it.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 3, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
"Traits such as self-righteousness, superiority and persecution complexes, homophobia, etc."...I dunno.
Minus the homophobia that also describes plenty of atheists I know. And no, I’m not religious at all. But religious people sure don’t have any monopoly on being strident and insufferable in my experience.
very true
i’ve been known to get high and mighty on occasion, and sat in on a meeting of AAW (atheists and agnostics of wisconsin) before I walked away in disgust as to how biggotted and biased they were. So, some people “on the non-religious left” are way worse than I am:P So, that’s pretty bad.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 3, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
in nyc (and probably other rich eastern seaboard places)
when these discussions come up, atheists tend to be WAY more in-your-face and obnoxious about their lack of faith than are religious people of any stripe. strength in numbers, I guess.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 3, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate the band “Creed” but the main reason isn’t the fact that they are a “Christian” band (although I am not a big fan of those that use “God” to make themselves millionaires). It is because they suck. I have the same attitude towards Suppan.
"Today is."
by juggernaut400 on Jul 2, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Awesome.
And that gets a rec.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
but you are forgettting I really do hate Suppan as a ball player
and as for his religion I could care less
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
I agree.
It’d be different if Suppan gave money to politically and religiously “neutral” charities, like for children’s hospitals or something like that. No one wants kids to suffer and die. There are lots of charities that religious folk and non-religious folk, ‘liberals’ and ‘conservatives’ can mutually endorse.
As it stands, Suppan chooses charities that are divisive along political and religious lines, which actually makes it a lot easier for many people to hate him more when he sucks on the field (which is nearly always).
He’s pretty much using his money to be a lobbyist. Not that I wouldn’t do the same, if I were him . . .
"Nothing is working right now with a lot of the guys. We're trying to see pitches and see what we can do. ... I'm not going to sit there and walk, though. I'll eventually find it, and hopefully we'll still be in it." -Corey Hart
by baumann on Jul 2, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to pull an Ol' Pete, or anything, but...
Could you list the charities that Suppan gives to. I’ve seen his name on the Hunger Task Force sign along I-94. I wouldn’t call that a ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ group.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
What group is he lobbying when he donates to the Honor Flight program?
‘Cause I can’t think of anyone who desperately wants to keep WWII veterans from seeing DC, and I like to think I’m relatively well informed.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah...sorry
i saw Suppan donating something to a charity and i just had a reaction based on other causes he’s supported politically and charitably.
I have no issue with this particular organization…I’m just giving him flak for his past.
I don't understand
the hate of Suppan. When the contract was signed, I know a lot of people (foolishly) expected him to be a #2 type starter. The fact is that he is, and has been, a back of the rotation type guy. Even at his peak in St. Louis, outside of the playoffs, was a #3 type guy. Yeah he’s getting $10MM/yr, but thats what the market dictated.
Suppan, by all accounts, is a terrificly nice guy and is just as entitled to his opinions as you, your mother or your neighbor. Hating a man for his religious beliefs is downright bigoted, shameful, and ignorant. Donating money to a cause that HELPS people, no matter the beliefs of the organization or its founders, is a noble action and to deride a man for that is truly asinine.
by mopack on Jul 2, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
the contract brought higher expectations
fair or not
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
true, BUT...
you have to put almost all of the blame on the Brewer’s front office. In the interst of Full Disclosure, I am a Cardinal fan. Moved to Milwaukee 5 yrs ago. I watched a vast majority of Suppan’s starts in his 3 years with the Cards, and I was telling some of my Brewers fan friends that the first year or two would be decent, but the back end would look really bad. This was fairly easy to see for a couple of reasons:
1. He went from a team that, at the time, had one of the best infield defenses in the majors to one that has always had giant holes in the infield, namely Prince, Braun, Gamel, and pre-2009 Weeks. For a groundball pitcher, this is HUGE. Theres a reason his BABIP for the last 3 years are significantly higher than his previous 3 years in STL with similar FB, GB, SO rates.
2. A four year, $42M mid-rotation pitchers age 32-35 seasons sets the bar very high. You can not blame Suppan for taking it. So who do you blame?
3. HE’S BEEN THE SAME PITCHER HE WAS BEFORE THE CONTRACT! Aside from a career year in 05, where his ERA was almost a full run lower than his FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching), and his (very visible) awesome start in Gm 7 of the 06 NLCS, he has done exactly what he did before, which is get a lot of ground balls, not strike out or walk many guys and let his defense work behind him. It just hasn’t worked the way Melvin thought it would.
Take a look at his stats and see for yourself. Especially look at the Batted Ball percentages. This year he has the lowest Line Drive% and highest Ground Ball% of his career, but his BABIP is .322.
I'm not justifying it
I’m just saying, that’s probably the cause of most Suppan-aimed-hatred
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
so do you blame
the front office? or do you blame the ill-informed fans who want the leopard to change his spots? You can give Bill Hall a $20M/yr contract this off-season but it won’t turn him into Albert Pujols.
This is why I can not stand politics.
So because he believes in something opposite from you, that makes you hate him? Yeah, he sucks at baseball and I have been possibly one of the more vocal people about my dislike of him on the baseball diamond. But why on earth should it matter what his political agenda is? Blah blah first amendment blah blah democracy—I won’t bother making those points as that should be pretty obvious as what our country is based on. If you don’t like what he has to say about politics or religion, don’t listen to that. But by all accounts, the guy is a nice enough man who (I’m guessing) probably gives more money to charities than 95% of baseball players and to hate the man is pretty ridiculous.
:) + Suppan = :'(
hate is a strong word
i dislike his performance profoundly.
Further, I do not agree with his religio-political views, especially when it comes to stem cell research. I personally do not believe that stem cell research will magically cure thousands of disease, and in fact think much of the money invested in that could be put to better use in pure research, but to be opposed to stem cell research on religious grounds is purely irrational. God, Jesus and/or the bible never talked about stem cell research. Or cells. Or atomic theory. Or planetary orbits. Or evolution (okay, this one is sort of an exception, as they do have an alternate theory in the bible, but it’s a tale and a myth. I don’t think it was ever made to be taken as literally and seriously as some take it today.) That the church should see fit to interceed on issues that are frankly beyond their reach (politically, intellectually, etc) is a travesty of modern Western culture.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 3, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Stem cells are an amazing thing.
If you put a bunch of them next to a Shakey’s Pizza, you get another Shakey’s Pizza!
:) + Suppan = :'(
I wonder
Do you think the worse he pitches, the more he donates to the local community, just for reasons like this? :)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
Do they sell those for bad pitching performances?
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Gagne tried to buy absolution lol
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
Why blame Suppan? Blame the guy that gave him that contract
If someone offered to pay me far more than I was worth, I’d probably take it too, get off the guys back.
Maybe so
But, despite the charity, we really don’t know any of these guys, except maybe Milton Bradley, who appears to be conducting a case study on himself. I’d rather stick to judging them for and liking/disliking them based on what they do inside the white lines. (/keithhernandezjoke)
It was a great selection of awesome.
Yeah.
Bill Hall’s a jerk. :)
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on he bought his Momma a house
He cannot be a total jerk ;)
Elvis liked his Momma too are you saying that Elvis is a jerk ;)
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
Yeah, I know.
He’s probably a fine guy. I don’t really know. I just hate watching him play baseball for the Brewers.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
good point.
i wouldn’t say i know soup personally; but i have talked to him many times over the last few seasons at spring training and here in LA; and he really couldn’t be a nicer guy.
i agree about judging him on the field; and i guess my point is that he does his best on the field to give the team a chance to win; and he is a first class clubhouse guy. he is a class act; and leads by example.
Jamie put down the Suppan Kool-aid
or should I say put down the Suppan Soup lol
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
As we speak
Suppan is printing “The Rebel Alliance softball team sucks a$$” t-shirts, and giving them to needy kids.
(He’s actually using the $ signs, because he has a lot of money.)
"I will agree that the attitude [at BCB] is ridiculous and they have done so much to instigate animosity and then block us from responding. Real mature!"
yes, Melvin is definitely culpable here
but Suppan could pull a Snell and ask to be sent to AAA, or renegotiate his contract to allow for the brewers to send him there without DFAing him (assuming the MLBPA would allow that).
The money is his now regardless. I’d just like the best squad possible at the major league level. But yeah…even if the contract would be made so AAA was okay, Melvin would still have to pull the trigger.
Totally different situations...
Snell’s situation isn’t comparable to Suppan’s, and he didn’t request to get sent down because of his poor performance.
well...the club wanted to send him down for poor performance
so poor performance was part of the situation.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Slide home safe with Jeff Suppan!
They were back last Suppan start, the religions wackos in the giants lot who said Beer can lead us to Satan and hell.
I’m not rich, so I don’t know how much of his donations are applied to his taxes.. anyone have an inkling?
the really simple version:
the money he donates is a deduction, so he doesn’t pay taxes on it. If he makes $10MM and donates $1MM, he pays taxes as if he made $9MM. Between fed and state taxes in that bracket, he’d probably pay ~40% on that additional million. So basically he’s taking $600k out of his pocket and putting $1MM in other peoples’ pockets.
He may end up paying some taxes on that $1MM though, since the Alternative Miminum Tax affects people with high incomes and substantial deductions. Not having much experience with either, however, I haven’t the foggiest what it does to Suppan.
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Jul 2, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
The only way he’d be doing it to make money would be if he was on the brink of a tax bracket. I’m sure he writes all of his donations off on his taxes. Why wouldn’t he? He’s still donating much more money than he would save in taxes.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Way to be a philanthropist, Soup
You still suck
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
.... at baseball.
And probably other stuff, but mostly we care about the baseball.
i have a reasonable dislike of Bill Hall.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 2, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
at baseball
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Another Suppan charity donation story from today
Not a political donation btw.
http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=10634004
Blow Cubs Blow! Blow Cubs Blow! Hey Milwaukee, what do you say? The Cubs are going to lose today.
I think it's admirable that he's so charitable
If he wants to talk about his religious beliefs, go for it – it’s obviously a big part of who he is. Just don’t expect me to be moved by it.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
Doesn't soup have a clause in his contract that requires a minimum donation?
Imagine the Brewers offense without Ryan & Prince.
-Bill Schroeder
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 3, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions
that's why I'm not wowed by him giving to Brewers Charities
I’m not sure if he’s contractually obligated to give to other organizations at all.
by PagsBrewCrew on Jul 3, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
yep
100k required per year
Imagine the Brewers offense without Ryan & Prince.
-Bill Schroeder
by Dikembe Meiztombo on Jul 3, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
It's 100k specifically to Brewers Charities
If you want to know what Brewers Charities is, see my post above. If you look at other players, their required donation is much lower. Suppan gives lots of money to charities outside of his contractual duties (that he set).
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
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