Wednesday's Frosty Mug
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 29, 2009 9:02 AM CDT
in Milwaukee Brewers News
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PrintTime is running out before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, and while the Brewers seem to be headed downhill, Doug Melvin says he's still looking to buy. Trevor Hoffman, meanwhile, says the Brewers have enough to win now. Hoffman, for whatever it's worth, has played on six winning teams in 17 seasons, but also five that lost 90 or more games.
If the Brewers are in fact buying, they may have another hole in the starting rotation to fill. Jeff Suppan underwent an MRI yesterday and was diagnosed with an oblique strain. (Also noted in FanShot.) He hasn't been ruled out for his scheduled start on Saturday, but this is Jeff Suppan we're talking about: do you really want him pitching at less than full strength?
With two games left against the Nationals the Brewers have already clinched a losing homestand, and several more blogs are ready to throw some dirt on the 2009 season:
- The Brew Town Beat says the season ended on Sunday.
- Brew City Sports thinks the Brewers should be sellers at the deadline.
- The Bucky Channel has also left the Brewers for dead.
- Miller Park Drunk, though, is still holding out hope.
Meanwhile, after beating the Brewers twice, the Nationals have won four straight games for the first time in 2009, and Ben Goessling of the Washington Times wonders if their luck has turned around.
If you've been watching this week's games, you've probably seen Pat Listach coaching for the Nationals. On top of being one of just three Brewers to steal 50 bases in a season, Listach also holds the major league record for longest at bat to lead off a game. He forced Ron Darling to throw 17 pitches while drawing a walk on September 26, 1992.
Just one minor league note today: Maverick Lasker is the Prospect of the Week over at Between the Green Pillars.
Around baseball:
Astros: Placed LaTroy Hawkins on the DL with shingles.
Giants: Nate Schierholtz has been placed on the DL with a strained hip, and Randy Johnson has been moved to the 60-day DL with tearing in his rotator cuff that will keep him out until at least September.
White Sox: Acquired Mark Kotsay from the Red Sox for outfielder Brian Anderson.
Yankees: Chien-Ming Wang will have season ending shoulder surgery today.
I also found a couple of notes of interest in the most recent Baseball America Minor League Transactions:
- The Brewers signed a pitcher out of the independent leagues: lefthander Donald Brandt, who had been pitching for San Angelo of the United League.
- Former Brewer farmhand Adam Pettyjohn was released by the Reds (and later signed by the Mets).
The Brewers travel to LA next week, and if you get the chance, listen to Vin Scully call the game for a few innings. Scully is reportedly retiring after the 2010 season, so you might not get many more opportunities.
Here's a first for the "Odd Ballpark Promotions" file: Cheezburger Night at Safeco Field.
Nyjer Morgan may have hit a leadoff home run last night, but on this day in 1975 the Brewers one upped him, as Don Money and Darrell Porter went back to back to lead off the game. The Brewers won the game, 4-0.
Happy birthday today to Mike Adams, who pitched in 61 games for the Brewers between 2004 and 2006 and turns 31 today. Also, happy birthday to the other Ryan Braun, who turns 29.
Oh, and if you still have some time to kill this morning, here's a nine minute video on counting the M&M's in a jar.
Drink up.
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So, uh ...
Was yesterday’s Mug War really that bad? Did everybody get scared off? I thought it was a pretty good debate, m’self, and I wasn’t bothered by some of the invective that got tossed around. (Then again: in my line of work, I’m called a word that rhymes with “bassmole” at least three times a day, so that stuff doesn’t even register with me.)
Or maybe it’s just that two straight losses to the worst team in baseball doesn’t leave the fanbase with much to say (other than expletives, of course).
You know, either/or.
Frustration was very evident yesterday
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Brewers are out on Washburn according to Rosenthal
The Brewers, thought to be one of the favorites for Jarrod Washburn, are not seriously engaged in discussions for the Mariners’ veteran left-hander.
The reasons: The Brewers do not want to give up good prospects for two months of Washburn at a time when they have lost 16 of their last 23 games.
Washburn, a likely Type B free agent, would bring only one draft pick in return if the Brewers (or any other club he was with) failed to re-sign him.
The Mariners, according to one general manager who has spoken with them, are seeking to make a bigger deal with Washburn.
That might be the reason they pulled catcher/designated hitter Jeff Clement from his Class AAA game and informed him that he was about to be traded.
It’s time to sell, get Hoffman on the block and get something.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
by Hyatt on Jul 29, 2009 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
almost forgot
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
i wonder if they're going to try to kill two birds with one stone
pick up some more prospecty / young pitching they can throw in the rotation
geez
We’re not talking about Cliff Lee here.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Actually
Hoffman’s Value is about $5.x million, throw in a closer premium and you could get a decent hitting prostpect for him.
Lets say Angels….maybe Hank Conger or Peter Bourjos/Mark Trumbo
Tigers….ouch, not much there, give them the First Wisconsin Building along with Hoffman and have them throw in Curtis Granderson
It is called the US Bank building now
Has been for at least 5 years :)
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
here is a real trivia question
Can you tell the original name of the US Bank building aka the First Wisconsin building?
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
The First Federal building
There was also supposed to be a second tower just like the World Trade Center but it was not built
The only reason I know this stuff is my father was on the Crew that built the building :)
Let me spell it for you Cub fans O N E H U N D R E D A N D O N E Y E A R S
As much as I like Sky's trade value calculator I think you're taking the numbers way too literally
especially in prospect discussions.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
I'm trying to be opitmistic, I really am
Losing Suppan isn’t a big blow to the rotation, but they simply don’t have the arm to replace him let alone a decent pitcher. Suppan had his quixotic starts and every so often would just shut an offense down allowing the team to score a few runs and win the game.
I don’t know if things are so bad they should be sellers, though. It seems the only trade deadline bait they have this season is Hoffman and maybe Cameron. Does anyone in contention even need an effective closer or a good center fielder?
I'd have to agree with the lack of need to sell
Sell what? Unless you’re going to get something that can make the team at least a .500 team in 2010, what’s the point of selling? The team lost enough fans with the 15 years of under-.500 squads they put out there.
Hardy, Hoffman and Cam probably have value. Obviously Fielder has the most, but we’d have to get a pretty good deal.
I Think Hoff/Cam Have More Value..
As free agents after the season…compensation picks probably have more value than anything we’d get for them this year. The only positive would be salary dump…but with only a few months left of the season, how much would that really save?
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
they indeed have value
I’m just dubious of DM’s ability to get anything decent in return for them. As long as it doesn’t involve the Brewers trading prospects away. (I’m also very unsure that Escobar will be what “everyone” says on the tin, but Hardy hasn’t exactly been electric over the past two years either.)
I think we can get more value for Hardy by trading him in the offseason
We can do better than a rental for him.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
All for Suppan
pitching this week at less than 100% as long as it is in another uniform or in LA with an apron in his diner.
On a Mission from God!
I think if we wanted to, we have pieces we could sell...
I think we could trade Hardy to the Red Sox possibly for Buchholz. I think we could possibly trade Hoffman to the Dodgers for a prospect or two. Hart could be moved as well, but that would selling low on him, so might as well hold on to him. However, I think the big trade chip would be Prince. I don’t know what we could get for him, but I think we can get some good young ML ready arms for him and we have to consider it now if so, because in all optimisim, if we are in contention next season we aren’t trading him then, so we will hopefully only get 2 draft picks for him. Personally, I would rather get ML ready talent now, pick up a bat in free agency or trade for one, possibly Alex Rios if we can afford his contract. Again, the Red Sox would probably have interest in Prince, just as they do in Gonzalez.
But again, if we have an august like our may, then a lot of our tunes are going to change
Hardy for Bucholz?
Very very very doubtful…very very….the only player I’ve seen Boston back off of their ‘untouchable’ stance for Bucholz is Halladay. They won’t do it for a slow poor hitting SS like Hardy. I doubt anyone would give up much for Hoffman either, as he would be purely a rental. It doesn’t look like Hart will gain much value anytime soon, so I don’t think it matters when we sell on him. I’d be surprised to see him back in RF next year though.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
thats a lot of verys
Yes i agree it is doubtful, thats why i said possibly because the brewers would be going into the trade hoping for buchholz. Would they get him? Yes, it is very doubtful, but he would be the goal. The Red Sox wouldn’t be going for Hardy for his bat, i think they have that covered, they would be after him for his defense.
Yep
As an indication of how much the Sox value Buchholz, they offered him straight up for Victor Martinez. They definitley would not give him up for Hardy. Maybe in April they would have done the deal, or even as late as May, but not now.
The deal for a pitcher involving Hardy should have been done last offseason.
I keep seeing this...
…Hardy is NOT a poor hitting SS. He is a good hitting SS having a poor year. There is a huge difference. When you put together 2 straights .800 OPS years, you are a good hitting SS.
Yes, this year matters and yes, he is having a poor year, but you have to look beyond that when trying to set value.
by badgermaniac on Jul 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
When...
Did he put together two straight .800 OPS years? And what does it make him when he OPS+’s 100 or below 3 out of his 4 full seasons (so far)?
I like Hardy as much as the next guy, but a career .264 hitter isn’t very valuable at the plate. His defense however does give him value.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
This is completely the opposite of how it should be looked at
He plays shortstop. Shortstops are in general awful hitters. I hate it when people think you can just pick up a decent-hitting shortstop for nothing. Look at what the Royals have played this year at short, they’re getting like a .150/.250/.300 line out of all their shortstops, with terrible defense.
Hardy is extremely valuable at the plate. Saying he’s a “.264 hitter isn’t very valuable at the plate” is just completely wrong.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
How
Should it be looked at then? OBP? Batting Runs? Batting Wins? Which offensive stat or group of stats it the best comparison for a shortstop?
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
He's been a below average hitting shortstop this year with an above average glove, making him about average overall
Which is worth 2 wins over a replacement level guy in a year. We’ve talked pretty repeatedly about his luck this year. Even when sucking and getting unlucky as he has been, there’s a ton of value in him. He’s had 5 years in the majors— a rookie year in which he was obviously overmatched and then got hurt when he started hitting, another year lost to an injury in 06, followed by two years of all-star caliber hitting and defense at short. This year he’s gotten awfully unlucky and still managed to be pretty valuable. That’s the big picture.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
Sorry
I figures that with an OPS of .786 two years ago and an OPS of .821 last year, we could state that he was an OPS .800 player.
He has been at/over 100 OPS+ the last two years (100 and 113).
Last year, he was the 4th best hitting SS in all of MLB (OPS) behind only Ramirez, Drew, and Reyes.
Two years ago, he was the 8th best hitting SS (Ramirez, Rollins, Renteria, Jeter, Tulowitzki, Tejada, Wilson).
So I guess a .264 career hitter certainly CAN be very valuable at the plate after all.
by badgermaniac on Jul 29, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
And this year he's...
28th in OPS? 34th in OBP? 18th in hits? 6th in GDP?
At least he’s 8th in walks…that’s a plus.
Very similar (and in some cases already worse) than the numbers he put up in ‘05. So all we’ve proven is that he’s had 2 good seasons and 2 not so good seasons….pending a ridiculously huge turnaround this seasons of course.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Going back
…4 years is a reach, especially since you are talking about a 23 year old that played about 30 games before getting hurt.
Including that with his previous two FULL seasons is intellectually dishonest.
If you look at his last 3 years and prorate it to 575 at bats, you get the following figures:
.270/.327/.449/.776
82 runs/76 RBI/28 2B/3 3B/24 HR
That puts you right in that area of being one of the 10 best offensive SS in all of baseball.
I think most teams could use a great glove at SS that is gonig to hit .270 with 20-25 bombs and drive in/score about 80 runs.
by badgermaniac on Jul 29, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He played..
124 games in 2005 with 427 PAs. He only played 35 games in 2006, which was his injury year. Just wanted to clarify. You seem to be under the impression that he was injured for the majority of 2005.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, 7 player deal
http://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic/status/2912445065
Pirates trade Wilson and Ian Snell for Jeff Clement,Ronny Cedeno, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, Nathan Adcock
spoke too soon
Good trade for the Pirates there if the prospects pan out—or even if they don’t; like Snell was ever going to pitch there again.
I didn't think Jaramillo was that awful
So the Pirates are stocking up on dodgy backup catchers now, as opposed to somewhat decent starting outfielders?
As disgusting as this all is...
we are still only 4.5 back.
::Another 95% plus FanGraphs win goes right down the fucking tubes:: Indians fan after Prince's Grand Salami
Right
But behind three teams. That’s important to remember. The Brewers would have to outplay three teams to win the division. Even if they get really hot, one of the three teams in front of them could also get hot and they’d still miss the playoffs.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 29, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Time to Think About Next Year
It is definitely time to SELL. It is all about next year now. If we are going to be competitive next year, we need to add at least TWO quality starters to the rotation. We could trade Hardy and Hart and pick up two pitchers from AAA that would be ready to start next year. Then we could bring up Escobar for Hardy and Gamel for Hart and let them use the rest of the season to play in the majors every day so they can get ready for next year. At least that way the Brewers would be doing something productive with the second half of this season.
why not plan on our current AAA pitchers being ready to start next year? And you want gamel to switch positions and play every day in the big leagues? We'd finish in 6th.
Christ, it’s not like we’re out of it, we’ve got tons of games against the guys ahead of us left.
Mariners
just traded Clement and other prospects to the Pirates for Ian Snell and Jack Wilson. You have to think this is the prelude to another Mariners trade, yes?
Phillies are "on the verge"
of trading for Cliff Lee.
Carrasco, Donald, and Marson are out of the Triple A lineup.
Cards Announcers On Gamel's First Career HR, ""That’s all they need is another home run hitter".
Right
Sheets is also still a free agent, and Capuano, unless I’m mistaken, likely will be one at the end of the season.
"The reports are that he is getting better. The definition of better is nebulous."
by Kyle Lobner on Jul 29, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Cappy
Will be a FA at the end of the year as well. Wouldn’t be surprised if he was brought back on another minor league deal. Would be a shame for the team to give up on him now. Guess it will depend on how the rest of this season goes for him though.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee to the Phillies?
Per Rosenthal
The Phillies have reached agreement on a trade that would bring them left-hander Cliff Lee and outfielder Ben Francisco from the Indians for Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, according to major-league sources.
Its pending a review of medical records. It would mean that the Jays would lose leverage on Halladay, not that it matters, because the Brewers appear to be out of the running.
How much leverage would they lose though?
On the one hand, the Phillies didn’t give up quite as much as the Jays were asking for in return for Halladay, but on the other hand…Halladay is now the only true ace that’s still ‘for sale’…or ‘for trade’ as it were.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe not.
J.P. Ricciardi said he now not only expects Halladay to be a Blue Jay for the rest of this season, but for the rest of his contract, which runs through next year.
“I would have to talk to ownership, but I personally would be less inclined to trade him in the offseason,” Ricciardi said when reached by phone by the Post. "I would think let’s put our best foot forward in 2010. We expect to get our injured pitchers back (such as Shaun Marcum and Jesse Litsch) and let’s try to win.’
What's the point in the AL East?
Sure the Rays managed it last year, but that’s a freak occurrence in the AL East. The Yankees and/or Red Sox will practically always be better. I guess you make a run at it for one year and give your fans something to cheer about for once.
I don't know if I'd count the Rays out this year.
Four behind the Red Sox in the Wild Card, and they play the Sox eight more times. I think they might sneak in there and swipe it.
could be..
a bad thing they have to play them 8 more times
Hard To Say...
They’re 4-6 against the Rays this year.
by TheBurningRom on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Re: Dillard's prospects for success while not striking many batters out
An interesting read, though it’s about a Rangers pitcher.
Obscure baseball records and more at my blog, Recondite Baseball.
It's not so much that he doesn't strike people out, it's that he walks people and doesn't strike people out
A guy can only k 3 per 9 or so and be effective if he gets groundballs and only walks 1 per 9.
E: George 4 (5, throw, throw, throw, throw).
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Cincinnati
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Houston
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Milwaukee
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
|
St. Louis
|
0 | 0 | .000 | 0 | Lost 0 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 7:02 AM CST)
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